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[Gamer79]

I am all god for playing a great hollyweird Blockbluster from time to time. With that said, some INDIE studios have been doing it better than the big publishers. Astrobot developers with it's staff of less than 100 proves that awesome games that make money can be done with much smaller teams.

I find games too long today. Give me a good entertaining 8-12 hour fun Campaign than the 20 or even worse 80 hour open world epics that take weeks to finish. A lost art was making games replayable. Maybe maybe alternate paths/upgrade skill trees/chocies/ paragon etc. There are plenty of ways to make a good "short" game replayable. The point is if the scale is scaled down that should lead to much less cost.

The expensive long development cycle of today is broken. Look how much money Micro$oft invested in acquisitions and so far very little to show for it because the games just take too damn long to make. This cannot continue because know what is happening is Company's can flat out go under with one unprofitable game.

 

[Hrk69]

Imagine playing Elden Ring and thinking; 12 hours is enough

 

[jakinov]

They already changing by adopting GaaS.

Also,in regards to Microsoft, Activision likely contributes to several billions of dollars in profits still.

 

[Danjin44]

Well most people especially in GAF want high tech graphics and at the same time they want the game take less time make......sorry it just not how game development works.

My bigger problem is most developers like announce their game when they have literately nothing to show.......I rather see them wait and progress through the development and when they actually have something to show then announce it, like Capcom did with MH Wilds.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

You want photorealism then get used to this

 

[RedC]

 

[West Texas CEO]

I am in concord with your opinion.

 

[vlojomsombeauwater]

Imagine playing Elden Ring and thinking; 12 hours is enough

why not.....both ?

 

[Represent.]

You want photorealism then get used to this

Thats not the issue. The issue is gamers complaining about 40 hour games being "short".

Games are too long, too bloated, too big. Cut them down by half and pump them out faster.

 

[gooner4life_uk]

Games are way too long, they cannibalise their own sales, they all target the same launch windows, we have no games released between may and september, then everything want's to release and everything want's to take 40/50+ hours of your time, how am i supposed to buy all these games? inevitably I'll wait until something goes on sale and play it for 10 minutes before saying it's a disappointment because the next shiny thing has been shown off that i'm waiting for and if I've already pushed game X to the side because of game Y releasing in the same window then i wasn't that into it anyway.

Give me shorter 12/15 hour games, that I can blast through in a weekend, if it's that good the customers will demand add-on content, if it's not then we will move onto the next 12/15 hour game the following weekend and might pick up a sequel to your game when it drops in a couple of years.

 

[adamsapple]

I am in concord with your opinion.

But be ready for a Marathon.

 

[bender]

Imagine playing Elden Ring and thinking; 12 hours is enough

Elden Ring would have been better if the run time were closer to 12 hours than what it ended up being.

 

[semiconscious]

Games are way too long, they cannibalise their own sales, they all target the same launch windows, we have no games released between may and september, then everything want's to release and everything want's to take 40/50+ hours of your time, how am i supposed to buy all these games? inevitably I'll wait until something goes on sale and play it for 10 minutes before saying it's a disappointment because the next shiny thing has been shown off that i'm waiting for and if I've already pushed game X to the side because of game Y releasing in the same window then i wasn't that into it anyway...

man, i only wish. my problem is how am i supposed to convince myself to buy any of these games. most especially at full price...

 

[IAmRei]

Man, one of the main reason is production value, not only the playtime counts.

AAA graphic aint cheap...
Let alone system and voice, also orchestrated ost...

Everything in AAA or AAAA screams expensive and high risk high reward, especially these days. Hollywood-fication made everything expensive.

I think the one who needs to hold off is people who only after the graphic first, then cinematic aspect.

Just like some said, embrace the gameplay, not production value (which often fails to squeeze margin profit these days)

 

[BlitzerRadic]

I am all god for playing a great hollyweird Blockbluster from time to time. With that said, some INDIE studios have been doing it better than the big publishers. Astrobot developers with it's staff of less than 100 proves that awesome games that make money can be done with much smaller teams.

Its hilarious how some random posters on gaf think they know better than Sony how to run their business. I mean, use some common sense. Sony knows exactly how much these games cost to make and how much money they earn. Dont you think think if games like astrobot made more money than AAA blockbusters they would be making astrobot type games instead?

 

[Team Andromeda]

I think game development time will start to get back to some sort of normal and it will be all the better when they dump the toss of working from home and bring back the Crunch period.

 

[ItsGreat]

It's an exciting time to be a gamer. The indie scene is thriving, and perhaps we're witnessing a shift where these smaller studios become the new AAA powerhouses. History might repeat itself, with these indies eventually succumbing to the same pitfalls as the giants they replaced. But for now, let's celebrate the innovation and passion driving this indie revolution. It's a breath of fresh air in an industry that desperately needs it.

 

[Kadve]

They already changing by adopting GaaS.

And how many of those released in recent years has been successful? The GAAS market is way to crowded as it is.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Microsoft / xbox is already focusing on smaller games.

Look at Avowed/ Indi. None of them look like $200 million budget games.

 

[Trilobit]

I've been playing Horizon Forbidden West for over 100 hours and saw that I'm only at 54% and having fun all the time. So I like that there are massive games like it, but not all games need that length.

I'd very much like to have more games in the style and size of Sly Cooper 2.

 

[Lorianus]

Im not gonna pay 70-80 Euros for 10 hour games, dont give them ideas holy shit.

 

[BehemothBlade]

Im not gonna pay 70-80 Euros for 10 hour games, dont give them ideas holy shit.

How many hours is DMC5?

 

[Physiognomonics]

It's less the numer of years, it's more the size of the team. But yes 5 years seems a lot. If you can't make a game in 5 years without making a hit, you have a problem as a team.

 

[Majormaxxx]

the years are increasing, the enjoyment from the new games is not increasing

 

[Variahunter]

the years are increasing, the enjoyment from the new games is not increasing

We just got Elden Ring, Armored Core 6 which were perfect imo,
Then Rise of the Ronin, Dragon’s Dogma 2, Visions of Mana which are really good games with some flaws.

Haven’t played yet but I intent to :
Black Myth Wukong

I’m waiting for :
Crimson Desert
MP 4 (although it needs to bring something new to the formula imo)
Kingdom Come 2
Fatal Fury CotW
The Sinking City 2
Jurassic Park Survival

Remakes :
RE CV
MGS3
Silent Hill 2
DQ3

Some that I might pick up when they launch on PC :
FFVII (only when the complete 3 parts game redone in one experience will be released)

And that’s not even accounting Switch 2 line up with a new 3D Mario game, and the upcoming From Software games.

And that’s just what I think of right now.

I think we’re good.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Thats not the issue. The issue is gamers complaining about 40 hour games being "short".

Games are too long, too bloated, too big. Cut them down by half and pump them out faster.

Kills replayability for me.

GOW Ragnarok was wonderful, but I’m not slogging through it again.

 

[Cakeboxer]

I don't mind when games take 5 years to make. I just don't want them to be BBB (Bland, boring, bloated).

 

[RagnarokIV]

With how shit games are at the moment it's more Bollywood than Hollywood.

 

[Embearded]

The fact that a studio has only 60 developers doesn't mean that they didn't get support from external studios. Only the credits can verify that.

If a studio is using an of the shelf engine like UE5, can have less people working because they don't need to maintain the engine like the studios with in house engines do.

Development time and budget can also increase because they are chasing trends instead of following their original vision.

I am not convinced that AAA single player cinematic games are not profitable.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

You want photorealism then get used to this

But the graphics have barely improved since last gen.

 

[BehemothBlade]

I am not convinced that AAA single player cinematic games are not profitable.

There is stuff like mocap, voicework and other extra expenses that the studio can choose to make the game with.
Tiny details like these can exponentially increase budget. Studios can also downsize and use less expensive methods as in the System Shock remake. But those games dont sell as much.
Indie games are safe because they dont have to make a lot of money back to be profitable. Whenever an indie title wants to get ambitious, they risk loss.

 

[Majormaxxx]

We just got Elden Ring, Armored Core 6 which were perfect imo,
Then Rise of the Ronin, Dragon’s Dogma 2, Visions of Mana which are really good games with some flaws.

Haven’t played yet but I intent to :
Black Myth Wukong

I’m waiting for :
Crimson Desert
MP 4 (although it needs to bring something new to the formula imo)
Kingdom Come 2
Fatal Fury CotW
The Sinking City 2
Jurassic Park Survival

Remakes :
RE CV
MGS3
Silent Hill 2
DQ3

Some that I might pick up when they launch on PC :
FFVII (only when the complete 3 parts game redone in one experience will be released)

And that’s not even accounting Switch 2 line up with a new 3D Mario game, and the upcoming From Software games.

And that’s just what I think of right now.

I think we’re good.

Even the best new games - and you listed fantastic ones - do not bring more joy just because it took more years to make them.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Imagine playing Elden Ring and thinking; 12 hours is enough

Elden Ring certainly suffered from bloat. Didn't need that cat statue boss so many times or the black knight dude 4 times was it? Just kinda became a slog for me to get platinum. Glad I could save scum the endings because going through that 3 times would have been boring AF

 

[Zathalus]

As with everything it really depends on the game. Elden Ring, BG3 and Astro Bot are all utterly amazing games, but its pretty obvious that the amount of effort involved in each would be quite different.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Pay the CEO's, and developers less.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Considering we just got the best game in a long time and it had a 3 year development and I assume much smaller budget in Astro Bot I'd say Sony just got a big tell from people what they want. Less concord, be that the political crap or the online GaaS crap, and more Astro

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Well most people especially in GAF want high tech graphics and at the same time they want the game take less time make......sorry it just not how game development works.

My bigger problem is most developers like announce their game when they have literately nothing to show.......I rather see them wait and progress through the development and when they actually have something to show then announce it, like Capcom did with MH Wilds.

The only problem is that gamers complain when they do the bolded as well.
Case in point: Playstation.


The real problem is the gaming community with it's demands and petty whining.

 

[Little Mac]

Stop pushing graphical fidelity ... only Nvidea is benefiting from it. It's diminishing returns at this point.

 

[Sorcerer]

I think something like Astrobot sneaks in because it's refreshing to play something of that nature after so many bloated big budget games. But if the swing was to make games like Astrobot the norm, I don't think it would work. People would be itching for the massive, big games again. There needs to be more balance. Perhaps a team for super high budget, a team for mid, and a team for even more low budget. experimental games.
Of course, this gets messy when talking about the entire industry. Just talking about a model for a single publisher/developer who is capable of the spectrum.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Stop pushing graphical fidelity ... only Nvidea is benefiting from it. It's diminishing returns at this point.

Yep. High performance and honestly more linear stuff with less bloat will probably make for better AND cheaper games.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

I think something like Astrobot sneaks in because it's refreshing to play something of that nature after so many bloated big budget games. But if the swing was to make games like Astrobot the norm, I don't think it would work. People would be itching for the massive, big games again. There needs to be more balance. Perhaps a team for super high budget, a team for mid, and a team for even more low budget. experimental games.
Of course, this gets messy when talking about the entire industry. Just talking about a model for a single publisher/developer who is capable of the spectrum.

Overall I think it's about less copying. Back when we had GTA on PS2 there were others pushing for that. Lots of gta clones. There were also lots of 3d platformers that were mostly linear. Gamers also changed to equate value to hours.

Uncharted was fine with a decent length campaign selling at full price and I doubt most people bought it for multiplayer. Yet by the time the order was out it was like you couldn't have a single player linear game for $60. I've always told people with that attitude that games come down in price quick. The order's quality aside as I feel people were already soured on it just because it didn't have multiplayer tacked on and was linear and we knew that before release

 

[SkylineRKR]

Too many games suffer from bloat in general. Its either that, or the other extreme like Hellblade 2.

The mid tier is where its at. I would consider Astro Bot and Wukong mid tier. The latter did take 6 years to finish, but the team started with 30 ish people and switched engines. Budget was ultimately 70 million which is a lot, but less than half of average AAA. The game isn't bloated, its not filled with side quests and checklists (there are a few side quests per chapter, which are quite meaningful).

But the thing is, they boarded this train. Expectations will rise every time Sony announced a sequel or new console. Meanwhile Nintendo, and I don't even own anything by them right now, has positioned itself so that it doesn't matter for their fanbase. They can unveil a Switch 2 with early PS4 graphics, they will come up with creative and nostalgic designs and consumers will devour it. Those games don't push any kind of fidelity, nor do they advertise with it, but their software keeps its introduction price, and keeps on selling anyway. And honestly they keep their appeal, Galaxy still looks fun to play.

 

[jufonuk]

I hope the next switch doesn’t do this to Nintendo and lengthens production

 

[BehemothBlade]

Pay the CEO's, and developers less.

Then nobody would want to be CEO.

 

[jufonuk]

Then nobody would want to be CEO.

How will the CEO’s be able to afford their holiday homes ?

 

[BehemothBlade]

How will the CEO’s be able to afford their holiday homes ?

You live in a world where people are able to afford holiday homes. In this case they happen to be CEOs.

 

[howitis3]

Game developers hire 5000 graphic designers. 2000 writers. And 3000 project manager to work on the game for 3 years to make a cinematic before starting work on the game now days.

 

[jufonuk]

You live in a world where people are able to afford holiday homes. In this case they happen to be CEOs.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I don't even think the length of games needs to change that much. They could save a lot by avoiding the urge to create hours and hours of cut-scenes and non-interactive content that ends up costing as much as a feature film.

 

[Bitstream]

I don't even think the length of games needs to change that much. They could save a lot by avoiding the urge to create hours and hours of cut-scenes and non-interactive content that ends up costing as much as a feature film.

You know? Not a terrible Idea, if getting the direction on cutscenes 'just right' is taking 1/3rd the dev time, I think most folks would be willing to let these go to get their hands on the games faster, and get back into the game quickly.