Star Power
Member
Quit your bitching.
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I got ZERO on my final math test :(
- Thread starter Date of Lies
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CVXFREAK said:
And you got a 3?
Date of Lies: I really hate to say this (because my High School experience was one I'd like to forget), but you got what you deserved. You knowingly wrote it in so you could cheat, and no matter how good or bad a student is, that shouldn't change their rules on the subject.
Maybe you can take it to the superintendent or whoever's higher up if you want to argue it more (looks like you wont, though).
Date of Lies
Banned
Zaptruder said:
Thanks, that's exactly what I was telling myself.
its always weird talking to a teacher about cheating when you didn't mean to.
Back in highschool in spanish class we used to have these worksheets where you would do them as well as you could on your own, and then once you got stuck you were supposed to take your book out and finish the rest of the worksheet to learn what you didn't know.
I was sick for a few days and so missed the teachers announcement that she will be changing the format of her test to that of the worksheet I just described. I don't mean we could use the book, just the structure of the questions and such would be identical. So I show up to class after I'm better which happened to be the test day. I sat in the front row. She handed out the tests. I got stuck halfway through, opened my backpack, whipped out my book right in front of her and started flipping through the pages.
I guess from the pure stupidity of it all she didn't realize what I was doing until I had answered a good 5 questions or so by using the book.
That was quite an interesting conversation afterwards in trying to explain that I didn't mean to cheat on a test when I pulled my book out and started reading it for answers during the test.
Back in highschool in spanish class we used to have these worksheets where you would do them as well as you could on your own, and then once you got stuck you were supposed to take your book out and finish the rest of the worksheet to learn what you didn't know.
I was sick for a few days and so missed the teachers announcement that she will be changing the format of her test to that of the worksheet I just described. I don't mean we could use the book, just the structure of the questions and such would be identical. So I show up to class after I'm better which happened to be the test day. I sat in the front row. She handed out the tests. I got stuck halfway through, opened my backpack, whipped out my book right in front of her and started flipping through the pages.
I guess from the pure stupidity of it all she didn't realize what I was doing until I had answered a good 5 questions or so by using the book.
That was quite an interesting conversation afterwards in trying to explain that I didn't mean to cheat on a test when I pulled my book out and started reading it for answers during the test.
fennec fox
ferrets ferrets ferrets ferrets FERRETS!!!
My friend in high school was suspended in senior year for changing his grades on the school's server (he admin'ed it) and he still got into the college of his choice. Penn, no less.
Date of Lies
Banned
I was too focused on the exam and she came behind me.
Z
zylo
Unconfirmed Member
Why dont you just go to summer school or something or you could just go to the college and take general arts and science which lets you up grade your math or any other subject you want and then you could apply for your course in december.
That SUCKS. ANd for you idiots who say being set back a year is'nt that big of a deal.. IT IS. I feel for you man.. I pretty much wrote formulas on the back of my calculator for every test I wrote. Not just formulas but elaborate notes and stuff. Sometimes I would'nt even use them in the test ut i keep them there just in case. I can't beleive your school is being such a bitch about this. If someone at my school got caught they'd get zero for that test only.. But yours was a final so i guess it screws over your whole year. I dont know if i would have risked putting soemthing in my calculator in the final though.
But time will past.. thigns will be forgotten. You'll be okay.
But time will past.. thigns will be forgotten. You'll be okay.
Mister Zimbu
Member
LakeEarth said:
Opposite thing with mine in HS- there was a fire drill scheduled during one of our quizzes, and he said that we all MUST meet him outside during the drill to make sure noone cheated.
Only about 1/4 of the people showed up.
So he gave the people that did the answers
.CajoleJuice
Member
I've never cheated myself...I'm the one people cheat off of. And I really do help them all the time. I had two people cheat of me for the NY State Regents for US History, even though it was a complete joke compared to the AP. And I helped a few of my friends get about 20-30 points on the Math section of the SAT by memorizing answers and telling them during the break so they could go back and make the necessary changings.
CrimsonSkies
Member
You cheated. Live with it.
teiresias said:
This is Suaveric's girlfriend writing. Occasionally I like to read the off-topic section of your message board; I think it's funny. I take offense to what you wrote, Teiresias. I'm a high school biology and chemistry teacher at a very demanding high school, and I have not only an undergraduate degree from a reputable university, but a master's degree as well. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with most of your high school science courses, but in my experience, as a teacher and as a student, high school teachers care a great deal about their students and their teaching methodologies.
Date of Lies said:
That's not true. You bring up the fact that this was the first time the teacher checked the calculators -- you want to put a little bit of "blame" on that fact.
Date of Lies said:
Same thing here. You say you're dealing with it (and I think you are on an initial level), but you're still rationalizing -- cheating is cheating, and you're lucky it's JUST a zero on your test as opposed to a part of a formal academic record.
Look, I went to high school at the School of Dreams. That's a place where there's a lot of pressure to do well and students doing "college level work." We're not "sometimes the best in our city", we're the best in the state of California.
You haven't shown sufficient genuine regret and remorse. You are being selfish:
Date of Lies said:
That's all you care about -- yourself and not being able to get into college. The Dean isn't going to give a second chance, because you haven't shown him that you deserve one.
Grow up.
When you do, then apologize to your Dean and teacher.
Date of Lies said:
Er, it's not that they look at a particular grade. They look at the last marks recorded for the highest level classes you take. If you take grade 11 math again, they're not going to care what you got the first time. It shouldn't even show up on your transcript.
The 10th/half of 11th thing is something they only do if you're applying for college that early. Take grade 11 math by correspondance if you need to, it really is not that big a deal.
But, in general, I think cheating should be harshly punished. If you can't hack it, you shouldn't hack it.
videogamer
Banned
Gek54 said:
why not? Some schools do look at the senior year and require a certain GPA. Also, some people care about honors like being valedictorian.
Tortfeasor
Member
Have an attorney write a letter to the dean advising him that you may sue if the situation isn't resolved in your favor. This may affect your mom's workign environment, but if the dean is playing hardball, you need to 1up him if you expect any favorable resolution.
Hate to say it, but you set yourself up for a fall. You probably knew the rules, and honestly, if I were in your teacher's position, I'd do the same thing. Yes, there's pressure to do well, and it can be tough, but that's not a good excuse. You can claim that you didn't cheat all you want, but why should the teacher take the word of someone who copied down formulas onto their calculator?
I'll freely admit, though, I always despised the "memorize a bunch of stuff" theory of education. Education should revolve around getting students to think, and to educate themselves, rather than on churning out good little robots. And yeah, that's one reason I hated history and chemistry. But I was lucky enough to go to a good private school for HS, so even the teacher sin those subjects did what they could to de-emphasize the memorization.
I don't know about Canada, but in the US, colleges usually reserve the right to deny you entry based on your final senior year grades. IOW, if you accept an offer in april, but you fail every subject in may, sorry, you're out of luck.
I'll freely admit, though, I always despised the "memorize a bunch of stuff" theory of education. Education should revolve around getting students to think, and to educate themselves, rather than on churning out good little robots. And yeah, that's one reason I hated history and chemistry. But I was lucky enough to go to a good private school for HS, so even the teacher sin those subjects did what they could to de-emphasize the memorization.
Gek54 said:
I don't know about Canada, but in the US, colleges usually reserve the right to deny you entry based on your final senior year grades. IOW, if you accept an offer in april, but you fail every subject in may, sorry, you're out of luck.
D
Deleted member 284
Unconfirmed Member
please ignore this post
Tortfeasor
Member
Pfucata said:
Are you an attorney? Do you know what you are talking about?
I didn't say to sue him... I just said to have a lawyer write a letter threatening to sue. The dean seems to have left little room for anything except to accept the punishment, writing the letter could perhaps open the door to the dean and you coming to a compromise. The dean may be afraid of litigation and may want to make you a deal to make it go away. As far as Pfucata deciding you do not have a valid cause of action, that is bullshit. Talk to an attorney.
Remember, most crimes require both intent and action. Ask to see the rules about cheating as they apply to your school as they were written when you were "caught". If there is nothing in writing, you may have a case. If there is something in writing see if there is any language of intent in the rules. You may be able to make a good argument that you didn't intend to cheat, that your actions were only negligent. You may be able to differentiate yourself from the other who cheated by saying that they intended to cheat while you had no intent to cheat and that while you did write a formula in your calculator, you had never indented to bring it to class or meant to erase it, etc... From your story it also seemed that you were caught before the test started. Did you actually cheat yet? Was there any act? Anyways... There is always an argument that you can make. Speak to a licensed attorney in your area.
The easiest and cheapest way to get this over with is probably just taking it in summer school. Of course, that means you won't be able to make money over the summer to pay for school (if that matters at all).
I wouldn't wait a year. It seems like such a waste of time even if you were working. I never really understood the people who waited a year after high school to make money, but that's just because it's something I didn't plan on doing.
It'd feel so weird not graduating with your friends and everything.
I wouldn't wait a year. It seems like such a waste of time even if you were working. I never really understood the people who waited a year after high school to make money, but that's just because it's something I didn't plan on doing.
It'd feel so weird not graduating with your friends and everything.
videogamer
Banned
fart said:
Huh? Are you trying to say that studying biology revolves around memorization?
videogamer
Banned
Uh you are wrong about that. It doesn't revolve around memorization. People can get away with it, but to me it's the boring way to do it. It's hard to understand experiments if one's knowledge is based upon information that was probably forgetten after the midterm.
Tortfeasor, if you're a Canadian lawyer, I'll retract what I said about you not knowing what you're talking about, but I am firm that your advice will only dig him into a deeper hole.
There are numerous problems with threatening a lawsuit. One, it'll bring publicity and won't help him in his path to college. Sure his formal record won't say he cheated, but oh wait, there's this newspaper article talking about the lawsuit... second, it creates enemies whom he doesn't need. His best chance to win a path to his 1st choice college is to gain the support of this teacher or Dean so that his letter of recommendation explains how he has grown and matured.
The folly of your recommendation is that in his first post he explains that he wrote down the formulas because "I was afraid I might forget it and they never ever used to check them before." This is his admission of intent to cheat. Many schools clearly indicate that the act of writing down the formulas is the definition of cheating (not looking it up during a test). It is fallacy to assume that his school does not have written policies. It is fallacy to assume that the Dean is unprepared to defend his case in court.
Moreover, a cursory search of the Canadian case law suggests that this would be a losing battle. Polten v. University of Toronto already demonstrates that Canadian courts will take a non-interventionalist approach when it comes to an academic instutition and its setting of standards for a degree. In this case, it is unambiguously clear that the standards for a degree are rooted in the standards for a passing grade in a class.
The lawsuit idea has minimal chance of succeeding -- getting the teacher/Dean to accept his apology and support him in the future has significant potential.
I've said all I need to say.
There are numerous problems with threatening a lawsuit. One, it'll bring publicity and won't help him in his path to college. Sure his formal record won't say he cheated, but oh wait, there's this newspaper article talking about the lawsuit... second, it creates enemies whom he doesn't need. His best chance to win a path to his 1st choice college is to gain the support of this teacher or Dean so that his letter of recommendation explains how he has grown and matured.
The folly of your recommendation is that in his first post he explains that he wrote down the formulas because "I was afraid I might forget it and they never ever used to check them before." This is his admission of intent to cheat. Many schools clearly indicate that the act of writing down the formulas is the definition of cheating (not looking it up during a test). It is fallacy to assume that his school does not have written policies. It is fallacy to assume that the Dean is unprepared to defend his case in court.
Moreover, a cursory search of the Canadian case law suggests that this would be a losing battle. Polten v. University of Toronto already demonstrates that Canadian courts will take a non-interventionalist approach when it comes to an academic instutition and its setting of standards for a degree. In this case, it is unambiguously clear that the standards for a degree are rooted in the standards for a passing grade in a class.
The lawsuit idea has minimal chance of succeeding -- getting the teacher/Dean to accept his apology and support him in the future has significant potential.
I've said all I need to say.
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