I feel like most people have their heads in the sand about corruption when it comes to their side/political party. Plus it doesn't help when most media sources are partisan to some degree, and they tend to play up scandals of the opposition while ignoring scandals on their side. Since most people only consume media that echoes their own viewpoint, it's not hard to understand why most people think their side is clean and the opposition is full of corruption.
"I Hate Donald Trump, but he might get my vote" Washington Post(Opinion)
- Thread starter SlickShoesRUCrazy
- Start date
- Status
spoiler: absolutely nobody thinks their political party is free of corruption
SolicitorPirate
Member
Out of curiosity, have you guys ever worked in a big company? They pay famous people, including many politicians, to give speeches a lot. Nothing substantive happens. In every single one I've attended, someone gives empty platitudes for 30 minutes and everyone leaves happy thinking how important we are.
Tranqueris
Banned
I think I also find this one to be the most annoying. "I'm going to vote for Jill Stein or write in Bernie's name because I need to send a message!" A message that will be heard for about 20-30 minutes of total air time on election night as a bit of filler information while news anchors are waiting for more election results and then the media and the nation will go back to not caring about the green party and others for another 4 to 16 years.
It annoys me that people cry about Hillary giving paid speeches so much. Trump is known for ripping off his contractors, he's literally caused small businesses to go under due to him refusing to pay for work. He talks about bringing jobs back to America when all his products are made in some 3rd world country. Everything about him screams phony. He's constantly changing his positions, he was pro-choice not long ago and now he's ultra pro-life.
The words genuine and Trump do not belong in a sentence together. The mental gymnastics you must take to honestly think Trump is a genuine person is astounding, or you have your head buried deep into the sand.
The words genuine and Trump do not belong in a sentence together. The mental gymnastics you must take to honestly think Trump is a genuine person is astounding, or you have your head buried deep into the sand.
SolicitorPirate
Member
I think that's a valid observation. Naked ambition in men is often celebrated and even romanticised. Even in shows that presumably frame it as A Bad Thing, the male characters often come off looking cool as fuck. Compare that to women, and I can't think of a single example of a female character who was nakedly ambitious who wasn't also thoroughly unlikable and/or got her comeuppance by the end of the story.
I know I'm referring to fiction, but we'd be kidding ourselves if we pretended popular culture wasn't reflective of its audience.
Clinton is incredibly ambitious, and does things to further those ambitions. But we hate her for it far more than her equally ambitious male counterparts
If you're going to be that reductive, those people not voting 3rd party could just as easily be described as 'changing the margin of victory by a single digit margin without affecting the election outcome at all'
I think people should vote their conscience. If that means a third party or write in, then that's absolutely your right. You shouldn't be forced to vote for one of the major candidates if neither is worthy of your vote in your personal opinion
Alcoremortis
Member
Oh no! Hillary is corrupt because she was paid for a speech or something.
But let's forget Donald Trump, who has literally been using campaign money to host events at his own businesses, effectively funneling donations into his own wallet. Nope, not corrupt at all. I guess it's alright because he isn't even hiding it? Yay?
But let's forget Donald Trump, who has literally been using campaign money to host events at his own businesses, effectively funneling donations into his own wallet. Nope, not corrupt at all. I guess it's alright because he isn't even hiding it? Yay?
Who is talking about giving trophies?
Or is that codeword for being bigoted about the desire, and dare I say it, necessity, to expand many social programs that stop this bootstrapping to poverty game we're seeing an entire generation unable to escape from?
Then again, look at how he equated the subpar health care reform we have - the one that was inspired by Republican ideas - is considered liberal "bullying". This motherfucker has to be a free will isolationist, be it of the halcyon days of the country and its negation of the "unpeople" from public consciousness, or one goes so far as one wills, yet we have countless examples where there is systemic paralyzation and disempowerment.
Put him in a retirement home, please.
Or is that codeword for being bigoted about the desire, and dare I say it, necessity, to expand many social programs that stop this bootstrapping to poverty game we're seeing an entire generation unable to escape from?
Then again, look at how he equated the subpar health care reform we have - the one that was inspired by Republican ideas - is considered liberal "bullying". This motherfucker has to be a free will isolationist, be it of the halcyon days of the country and its negation of the "unpeople" from public consciousness, or one goes so far as one wills, yet we have countless examples where there is systemic paralyzation and disempowerment.
Put him in a retirement home, please.
I too got that from a thread where the existence of corruption is acknowledged in nearly every post. Keen eye.
What people are actually saying is that it's hard to proof, period. Speaking fees aren't evidence of corruption.
DataStream
Member
It's really hard to know where to move goalposts when they are invisible.
It's fine to assume corruption exists on an institutional level, because it very obviously does, but to say it does on an individual level requires proof. This is the same with anything, from racism, to sexism, and more.
DiscoJer
Member
I really don't understand this. As a Republican, I'm voting for Clinton because she's not batshit crazy, she's not going to wreck the economy by starting tradewars or screwing around with the debt, she's not a racist, and she's not a stooge for Putin who wants to dissolve Nato and give Eastern Europe to Russia.
I really don't get the hate for her. Disclaimer, I thought Bill Clinton was a good president, a hell of a lot better then GWB or his father. Some of his acts like signing the DOMA and some of the crime laws annoy me, but he balanced the budget, shrank government, and generally tried to do the right thing in terms of foreign policy (though some blunders, those are inevitable).
But really, worst case scenario, what is she supposed to do that is so horrible? It's like all the hysteria over a lot of what Obama has done, like implement the Republicans old idea to fix Healthcare. Or start wars in countries that have unforeseen consequences, like Republicans never do that.
So she might be greedy...Trump is not? He got rich (well, besides having a rich father) by buying corrupt politicians, is that supposed to be a plus? Frankly, I can understand wanting money. I have more trouble understanding people who have money but want power. They tend to scare me. Especially when someone is so thin skinned and so vindictive.
I really don't get the hate for her. Disclaimer, I thought Bill Clinton was a good president, a hell of a lot better then GWB or his father. Some of his acts like signing the DOMA and some of the crime laws annoy me, but he balanced the budget, shrank government, and generally tried to do the right thing in terms of foreign policy (though some blunders, those are inevitable).
But really, worst case scenario, what is she supposed to do that is so horrible? It's like all the hysteria over a lot of what Obama has done, like implement the Republicans old idea to fix Healthcare. Or start wars in countries that have unforeseen consequences, like Republicans never do that.
So she might be greedy...Trump is not? He got rich (well, besides having a rich father) by buying corrupt politicians, is that supposed to be a plus? Frankly, I can understand wanting money. I have more trouble understanding people who have money but want power. They tend to scare me. Especially when someone is so thin skinned and so vindictive.
Democracy is a flawed system as long as people doesnt get their priorities straight.
We just confirmed this in spain. So people on USA, think on the consequences of your actions, think about why you like or hate one or another, and put those reasons in a scale of importance for the country.
We just confirmed this in spain. So people on USA, think on the consequences of your actions, think about why you like or hate one or another, and put those reasons in a scale of importance for the country.
LouisaFerre
Member
For someone who prides himself on hard work and strength he really comes off as a whiny little weakling.
Not a bad explanation for why Republicans should consider voting for Hillary. If the nominee was Bernie, I'd be voting 3rd party for sure as I just can't get on board with his economic policies. Hillary is far more mainstream economically and she's a good candidate on national defense.
My family thinks I'm nuts to even consider voting for her, and every reason I give usually gets the "Bengazi" or "felon" response. The email scandal isn't a good look in my opinion. Then again, I think the true severity falls somewhere in between it being worth throwing her in jail for decades like many on the right want and it being nothing at all like what the left thinks. In any case, she is still a far superior candidate to Trump, that much is true.
I will say it is rather humerous how both sides of the political spectrum can look at the past seven years with completely different ideas of what takes place. Many on the left are disappointed that Obama turned out to be more of a centrist, with the Republican Congress obstructing everything. On the right, Obama has turned this country into the Socialist States of America and the Republican Congress has given him everything he's wanted while sitting back and letting this shift to socialism happen.
Where can we read her speech again? That she gave at Gs
Where in Europe are the free cookies and milk?
We have tough life here to.
It's so bizarre to me the notion that someone is willing to vote something they don't like because the other alternative is not what they want. I would have thought that if you don't like it then don't vote anyone? Stay home maybe and scratch you balls that day?
There is not a single logical line in this thought process.
Stupidity really knows no bound.
We have tough life here to.
It's so bizarre to me the notion that someone is willing to vote something they don't like because the other alternative is not what they want. I would have thought that if you don't like it then don't vote anyone? Stay home maybe and scratch you balls that day?
There is not a single logical line in this thought process.
Stupidity really knows no bound.
Earthpainting
Member
I've lived in multiple European countries during my formative years, and I didn't even know a 'participation trophy' was a thing until quite recently. Kind of surprised that participation trophies are associated with Europe. The only place where I encounter the concept are in rants from aging Americans who, in the same rant, lament the fact that they can't use slurs any more. Looks like it's no different here, since he is afraid of the politically correct boogie man.
I've lived in the UK for nearly all my life, and I've only ever heard of participation trophies in vague whispers and right-wing newspaper articles. Usually by the same people who use terms like 'the PC police' and 'political correctness gone mad'.
As a non-American currently going to college in America and hoping to find a job and settle over there, this is all terrifying stuff. Can't imagine what it must feel like for those of you born and raised there.
People are stupid, I always tell myself. This goes way, way beyond that.
People are stupid, I always tell myself. This goes way, way beyond that.
madstarr12
Member
Accepting monetary offers for speeches means corruption now? Lol.
What's with the selfishness of people not wanting to vote for Hillary Clinton because of disliking her? If her policies don't jive with you, then fine, don't vote for her. But agreeing with her policies, but not voting for her because "It will hurt my heart" / "It will damage my dignity" / "My pride will be ruined" is just selfish nonsense. This is real life, not a monologue where life only revolves around you. Do I like Hillary Clinton? Not a big fan, but her policy plans and future endeavors for the country won't create a situation as negative as with Trump's plans. Hillary will have plans that will affect less people negatively than voting for Trump. Just think about who the vote is affecting, I know that with Clinton, we will most likely keep our allies worldwide and not make enemies of friends (or friends of enemies). I know that she will not be deporting many people who have come here illegally looking for positive opportunity, I know that she will at least do something with combating Climate Change, she will fight for making families stronger since she has a long pedigree in doing that when she worked for the Children's Defense Fund. If you don't care about her policies, then fine, vote for Trump. If you do support her policies, then think about what not voting for her will do to not just you, but the whole country.
What's with the selfishness of people not wanting to vote for Hillary Clinton because of disliking her? If her policies don't jive with you, then fine, don't vote for her. But agreeing with her policies, but not voting for her because "It will hurt my heart" / "It will damage my dignity" / "My pride will be ruined" is just selfish nonsense. This is real life, not a monologue where life only revolves around you. Do I like Hillary Clinton? Not a big fan, but her policy plans and future endeavors for the country won't create a situation as negative as with Trump's plans. Hillary will have plans that will affect less people negatively than voting for Trump. Just think about who the vote is affecting, I know that with Clinton, we will most likely keep our allies worldwide and not make enemies of friends (or friends of enemies). I know that she will not be deporting many people who have come here illegally looking for positive opportunity, I know that she will at least do something with combating Climate Change, she will fight for making families stronger since she has a long pedigree in doing that when she worked for the Children's Defense Fund. If you don't care about her policies, then fine, vote for Trump. If you do support her policies, then think about what not voting for her will do to not just you, but the whole country.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
What horrible ultra right universe are you from where Hillary is ultra liberal?
SolicitorPirate
Member
My suspicion is that she talked about how important the financial industry is to the country/economy, which in the current climate, would be hugely damaging to her attempts to woo Sanders supporters, and feed into Trump's narrative.
While it's almost guaranteed nothing insidious occurred, what the audience would have recognised as empty platitudes would be taken as proof of her being bought by wall st. The reason is that a majority of voters have not worked in Goldman Sachs or other top firms. I, and other posters in this thread have. Take it from us; we've all been to a bunch of these, and nothing happens in them. Christ, the audience is normally made up of fucking mid level employees!
If Clinton actually had shady back room dealings with industries, it sure as hell wouldn't happen through a paid speech.
You do understand half our country is Republican right? They will not vote Hillary simply because he has those traits, also there is more to being a Republican than those traits.
But there's nothing more to Trump than those traits. Well, except other, similar traits.
If republicans vote for him because he's on their team they willingly reduce themselves to just the same descriptors.
Is it a cool thing in the US to hate on Hillary Clinton? Hate her to the point that Trump seems like a better choice? I mean, there's probably a (very) few number of Trump voters who aren't total bigots or xenophobes that simply vote for him because he's not her. I honestly can't understand that.
Palette Swap
Member
Yeah, cry me a river. Typical bigot conservative who always stopped an inch short of calling Obama a n***** but wants to appear reluctant now that their champion has emerged, and he embodies exactly what they've been all about for decades.
TLDR version: "we're Republicans so we'll vote Republican". No shit.
No they don't, they will have a Republican in office though and that's all that matters. They will have a conservative supreme Court judge. What Trump does from there does not matter, they will have the power. The idea that if you support the Republican candidate automatically makes you a racist is silly. If all your life you voted republican, you're going to vote republican (well this year I'm voting Johnson but still) It's that easy to understand.
Republicans don't view the Clintons in high regard. They are on the other team. That's pretty much that.
Then you have people that would vote Republican regardless strictly because of money interests.
But with Trump his social issues are too much even for those who may have strictly only paid attention to taxes and the like.
It'll be interesting to see how the voting goes. Even with many people seemingly supporting Trump for the hateful reasons I don't think hate is going to be anywhere near enough for him to win the presidency. I mean how many supporters of Bernie or Hillary were really going to side with Trump if their preferred candidate didn't get the Democrat nod? Trump is in a whole different hemisphere than those 2.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
"I'm going to vota for a racist, bigoted, homophob idiot but here are the reasons why I still consider myself a good person"
I get the impression that some people are ashamed of admitting to vote for Trump so they need a reason that isn't "I also don't like mexicans". And really, there aren't that many options.
I get the impression that some people are ashamed of admitting to vote for Trump so they need a reason that isn't "I also don't like mexicans". And really, there aren't that many options.
If you willingly put a racist in power, you're a racist.
If you put "my team wins" over the well-being of thousands of people and award an incompetent egomaniac the highest political office because him and his horde of morons hold your own political party hostage, you're spineless.
So no, supporting a Republican candidate doesn't make you a racist. Supporting and/or voting for Trump does.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
The notion that Hillary is some two-faced criminal gives white nationalists (most of whom would not consider themselves white nationalists but nonetheless are) an easy excuse to back Trump and follow their heart's desire without any of the awkward fumblings of explaining why they like Trump's platform. Explaining your vote for Trump by saying "he's not Hillary" is like a white supremacy dog whistle.
"The way it was."
I wanna know when this golden era was. The 50s, where many Trump supporters experienced for a few years as a toddler or not at all? The 80s, when crime was much we higher than today and many jobs in the public sector were being cut? The 90s... who was president again?
Of course it's about teams, it's been about teams since the start of this whole process. What do you think the primaries and the general election is all about? "Come join my team"
.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that every undecided voter, every Republican that may have voted for Cruz or Kasich or Rubio should vote Hillary or risk being called a racist? That's just not a reality that would happen in any "team vs team" scenario.
You're painting a lot of decent human beings with a broad brush though no? A lot of people for all you know would come to your aid if you ever needed it. I don't know what your situation is, were you're from, but being Republican has never stopped me from looking out for people in distress. If I see someone getting bullied I intervene, don't matter what color your skin is man. You got to understand, not everyone is as evil as you make them out to be.
I've seen Hillary on tv since I was what? 14? Since her and Bill came in? I seen her on tv for close to 25? 26 years? I'm sick of Hillary and I'm disappointed she is the Democratic choice, it's not what my friends wanted, but what you're going to do, they are stuck with her, like my other side of my friends and family are stuck with trump.
Or you can vote Johnson and just not give either of them the pleasure.
All I ask is you don't paint people with a broad brush.
HocusPocus
Member
I am voting for him because he is not hillary Clinton. Wish we had a real 3rd party candidate, but this country is bought and paid for by the money on both sides of the rigged two party system we have now. Oh the irony of 4th of July holiday today.
If you call someone a racist for voting for trump you're an idiot.
If you call someone a racist for voting for trump you're an idiot.
I have always interperpted "the way it was" which in my case would be the 80's
As a time in the economy where only one of your parents had to work, one job, and you were able to provide for your family, afford nice things, go on vacations.
Now adays families are lucky to survive with both parents working, and nice things? Just be happy you have a roof over your head.
Edit: sounds like the guy in the article did not mean it the same way I interpreted it, please don't associate me with said writer.
Except the person writing the article is a racist, so people calling him a racist is to be expected.
You're voting for someone who has no shame of showing he's racist. You're supporting a racist. When you look at a Trump rally, all you see is racists.
If you're not a racist, i'm not sure what to call you. Obviously not someone who's making a bright voting choice. The "not Hillary" excuse is terrible because whatever Hillary did in the past, Trump will do things 10 times worse as president.
Oh, an actual both parties are the same person.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Funny, it's not so hard to paint the majority of Americans back during the days of Slavery racist. Or the Civil Rights Era.
Guess because we're alive and active in this era, it's hard to believe that a large population of people could be racist.
HINT: It's very, very possible. Just like homophobia, transphobia, and sexism.
Guess because we're alive and active in this era, it's hard to believe that a large population of people could be racist.
HINT: It's very, very possible. Just like homophobia, transphobia, and sexism.
- Status