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[exmachina64]

Met up with my family for lunch and a movie yesterday, and my stepdad kept talking about how corrupt the Clintons are and how they think that the rules don't apply to them, especially after Bill met with Loretta Lynch. He said Trump was looking better and better. His reasoning is that Congress would rein him in and prevent him from doing crazy stuff.

I told him that I don't like Hillary either, but I'd rather vote for a punch to the gut than for someone to chop off my balls. People who think that Hillary is corrupt so they'll vote Trump can't grasp that Trump would be just as and even more corrupt. He hasn't even held public office and he has a mountain of red flags that point to potential corruption with his shady charities and rampant lies.

My supervisor months ago mentioned that Hillary has "blood on her hands" because of Benghazi. I like my job, so I didn't say anything, but Trump has literally talked about committing war crimes by killing terrorists' families. There's a big difference between fucking up in Benghazi and actively saying that you want to kill the families of enemy combatants.

Bottom line is that some people have a hatred for Hillary that has been cultivated for nearly two decades. They're so blinded by her hatred of her that they would vote for someone unequivocally worse in every way.

His pledge to attack terrorists' families doesn't really mean anything to many people because it's an abstract concept to them. The naïve thinking of many is that the family members of terrorists are bad, evil, radical, or horribly flawed in some other manner because they either helped shape a terrorist or did nothing to stop them.

The truth can obviously be more complex, but it's not a level of thinking in which many people engage.

 

[klonere]

Well... for what I've seen on the internet and TV about Trump and the extremely sensitive people in the USA, I think people are over-exagerating this Trump "character".

Trump says this....Trump posts that....so what? People get their feelings hurt over RHETORIC??? The guy hasn't done anything even remotely related to what he supposedly promises. His speeches are empty and full of bs, crafted in such way that he lets people's minds fill the gaps.

Also, politically speaking, there's not much that either Trump or Hillary can do to bring a "doomsday scenario", since both of them have to work with the congress.

I think there is a saying in the USA that goes "put your money where you put your mouth on". The only one that has done that until now has been Hillary.

My point is that people shouldn't get worked up on Trump's rhetoric. It's just that: words. Empty words.

Normalizing hate speech and providing a platform for all sorts of horrible people to rally around and spread that same hate.

Not just empty words - calls to action.

 

[Magni]

I cannot vote for Hillary Clinton. It's just that simple. It's not that she threw a bone to capitalists, it's that from an economic and class standpoint, there aren't two alternatives. All mainstream parties are essentially neoliberal capitalist parties now. Sabotage may be the only defense. The system and worldview have lost legitimacy, at the very least as far as neoliberal capitalism goes.

I'm not young. I'm not stupid. I'm not racist. I have been a lifelong Democrat voter.

As for 'Accelerationism', I don't believe in the concept here simply because I think that the anti-Trump alliance would be very limited to stopping Trump and would not amount to much outside of blocking his proposals. I am hopeful that TPP would be blocked, though.

All that said, I'm likely voting Stein. Perhaps I'll vote for the Socialist Equality Party candidates if they're on the ballot in my state. The only way I'd vote Trump is if it looks very close and I feel that I need to in order to prevent a Hillary presidency.

So you're not voting Trump, but you're voting Trump. You're not fooling anyone here.

 

[BBboy20]

When did it become not just OK but almost admirable to tell people you're an uninformed ignorant person and proud of it?

I don't know, maybe you should my best "I don't know much about politics but I'd vote for him" friend who's also going to be a pharmacist..

 

[Vyer]

Thank you for the compliment, but the "Republicans courting black voters is laughable" line confuses me. I mean I know black Republicans, well...rather successful black Republicans, maybe it's a money issue for them, money speaks to all races.

I'm not trying to really defend the trump supporters but the more I read on here, doesn't seem to match up with what I see off of here. When you read about Trump supporters on GAF it's all very stereotypical to the point where I don't believe half the things I read.

"My cousins friend, swastika tattoos and in the KKK"
"My uncle who has white power tattoos on his chest and a Confederate flag on the hood of his car"
"My sister's husband, who has a "ihteblacks" license plate on his Confederate flag truck who is all about "my guns" and thinks Hillary is going to take away his right to bare arms"

No one talks about the Trump supporters who live down the block that is a mixed race couple with a beautiful family and you were just at their pool party two weeks ago.

No one talks about the Ice Cream Man that serves the neighborhood or the Post Man or the guy who just cut your rotors at the shop, (ok well that one I can see). No one talks about the celebrities in their communities (I don't mean internet stars, I just mean home towm heroes)

Do all the examples above support trump solely for racism? Who knows? But the examples I gave above are white, Asian and Spanish. Maybe people just really hate Hillary and they just don't need a justifiable reason.

I'm excluding people in the military because their reason for not wanting g to vote Hillary is a topic that's been done to death.

All I'm trying to say is that innocent looking person you just crossed on the street.....could be voting trump.

The more we talk about this the more I wish I can win the lotto and move my family out of this country. Whoever wins, the other side is going to get violent and it's not going to be pretty here living here.

You don't have to look like you stepped off the set of American History X to harbor some pretty abhorrent views of minorities...or gay people or Muslims or women, etc etc. does that mean people who vote for trump necessarily have to tic one of those boxes? Perhaps not, but when you consider that Trump has offered very little else and no real plan for anything beyond building a 'wall' and banning the groups he doesn't like you really don't have a lot of ground to stand on.

The other alternative you offer: the people who are merely directing their hate on the other candidate, or are busy playing politics like cheering for sports teams, are doing so completely uncaring about the dangers to those minority groups. Not sure how that's much better.

I also know some 'normal' looking people who talk of voting for trump. One is even a minority. But once you talk to them about social/moral issues it becomes pretty clear why they feel connected to the conservative platform.

Even if you want to categorize that as the 'extreme' end of the party, fine, but that's still what Trump is courting and what he represents by his promises. And ultimately that's what they are voting for.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

I guess this is a proper issue. If your only political qualifier is "not this person", then a system where only two candidates seem viable, can lead to questionable picks. The only thing that is keeping independents not-viable is the ouroboros of only wanting to pick that seem like they can win.

I hadn't heard of Stein of Johnson until now, but both certainly meet the "Not Hillary" requirement that some people have, and they are bound to be less openly bigoted than Trump. Giving either of those a shot as the "alternative vote" might not stop Hillary, but you'd be doing your part broadening the political spectrum, and you can sleep easy knowing that you voted authentically without having to hold hands with bigotry. I've been voting for green parties since I could vote, knowing fully well that the chance of them getting any power is slim, and have never regretted it.

"Broadening the political spectrum"? Get real, man. We're not playing Calvinball, we're playing politics in a first-past-the-poll electoral system. You're claiming to have some sort of nebulous conscientious objection when all you're really doing is giving up and losing the game.

Yes our presidential election system sucks, but until we change it you're either stuck voting for someone who is sort of aligned with your beliefs but you don't like or throwing your vote away to a third party (which is essentially voting for the person most opposite your views).

But you already know this; enjoy tilting at windmills.

 

[Earthpainting]

"Broadening the political spectrum"? Get real, man. We're not playing Calvinball, we're playing politics in a first-past-the-poll electoral system. You're claiming to have some sort of nebulous conscientious objection when all you're really doing is giving up and losing the game.

Yes our presidential election system sucks, but until we change it you're either stuck voting for someone who is sort of aligned with your beliefs but you don't like or throwing your vote away to a third party (which is essentially voting for the person most opposite your views).

But you already know this; enjoy tilting at windmills.

Is this "until we change it" not the entire crux of the matter? It sucks, but folks do not want to budge from their apparently already deeply compromised ideals. It's how you end up with the "I'm not a racist, but I'm going to support a racist ideology, sorry non-whites" premise that this thread is based on. If this is what winning is like for some, then I'm fine with Quixoticly losing.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Is this "until we change it" not the entire crux of the matter? It sucks, but folks do not want to budge from their apparently already deeply compromised ideals. It's how you end up with the "I'm not a racist, but I'm going to support a racist ideology, sorry non-whites" premise that this thread is based on. If this is what winning is like for some, then I'm fine with Quixoticly losing.

There's simply too much at stake to cast a vote into the fire, I'm sorry. If we had a parliamentary system I'd be all for your view, but we don't. It's a balance between a candidate meeting your ideals as best as possible while still maintaining an opportunity to win. Getting behind the loser because you like them the most means the party most opposite your views is that much closer to being in power.

I'm not going to touch the whole "voting for a racist means you're racist" aspect of this argument because all that does is alienate the other side who you'll still have to work with in the future.

And "until we change it" isn't something that's going to happen during the presidential polls.

 

[pigeon]

I cannot vote for Hillary Clinton. It's just that simple. It's not that she threw a bone to capitalists, it's that from an economic and class standpoint, there aren't two alternatives. All mainstream parties are essentially neoliberal capitalist parties now. Sabotage may be the only defense. The system and worldview have lost legitimacy, at the very least as far as neoliberal capitalism goes.

I'm not young. I'm not stupid. I'm not racist. I have been a lifelong Democrat voter.

As for 'Accelerationism', I don't believe in the concept here simply because I think that the anti-Trump alliance would be very limited to stopping Trump and would not amount to much outside of blocking his proposals. I am hopeful that TPP would be blocked, though.

All that said, I'm likely voting Stein. Perhaps I'll vote for the Socialist Equality Party candidates if they're on the ballot in my state. The only way I'd vote Trump is if it looks very close and I feel that I need to in order to prevent a Hillary presidency.

Yup. You're not young or stupid or racist. You're just a lifelong Democratic voter who caught a ban for melting down in PoliGAF and declaring that white people are the most oppressed people in America.

Sounds like your average Trump voter to me!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I cannot vote for Hillary Clinton. It's just that simple. It's not that she threw a bone to capitalists, it's that from an economic and class standpoint, there aren't two alternatives. All mainstream parties are essentially neoliberal capitalist parties now. Sabotage may be the only defense. The system and worldview have lost legitimacy, at the very least as far as neoliberal capitalism goes.

I'm not young. I'm not stupid. I'm not racist. I have been a lifelong Democrat voter.

As for 'Accelerationism', I don't believe in the concept here simply because I think that the anti-Trump alliance would be very limited to stopping Trump and would not amount to much outside of blocking his proposals. I am hopeful that TPP would be blocked, though.

All that said, I'm likely voting Stein. Perhaps I'll vote for the Socialist Equality Party candidates if they're on the ballot in my state. The only way I'd vote Trump is if it looks very close and I feel that I need to in order to prevent a Hillary presidency.

Hi, brown guy here.

You can tell yourself that it doesn't make you racist to prefer the racist candidate and burn it all down, but that's not actually true. You are prioritizing your economic views over my personal safety and choosing to legitimize white supremacy in a misguided belief that you're sitting on the fringe of economic collapse.

Vote how you want. Vote Stein, vote Trump, vote Clinton, I don't really care about you personally. But don't convince yourself it's anything other than a vote to marginalize others.

 

[MHWilliams]

Look, sometimes getting out of that chasm with both hands isn't happening.

When faced with this situation, your best choice is dying alone in a rock face or taking your arm off without anesthetic. Would you rather skip through life with both hands? Sure, but given your situation, you pick the one that's better than death.

This is how voting has worked for a ton of Americans since America was founded. Enjoy.

 

[gamerMan]

So wait, you would vote a racist in office to protect "your" America rather than exercise your right not to vote for either candidate. Call me dumb but aren't you better off being silent?

 

[Fox Mulder]

I hate both of them and leaning to not vote for either.

 

[Ultryx]

I still don't know what the fuck a "safe space" is.

 

[RiccochetJ]

I hate both of them and leaning to not vote for either.

In this case, I would vote for the person I hate less and has at least some redeemable platform points.

For instance, I have an intense dislike of how companies are abusing H1B1 and liked what Trump had to say about it, but pretty much everything else about his platform is insane.

On the other hand, I believe that Hillary is influenced way too much by Wallstreet, but I really like her social platform that she's shown to have throughout her entire political career.

So while I'm not thrilled by either of them, Hillary is the clear winner for me. I wouldn't abstain or do some sort of strategic voting because Brexit showed what can happen when you do that.

 

[CyberMiguel]

Normalizing hate speech and providing a platform for all sorts of horrible people to rally around and spread that same hate.

Not just empty words - calls to action.

And what's the problem with that? Are average americans that stupid to actually believe his words or other politicians?

Because if they are, they truly deserve Trump. I really hope the average americans are not stupid and are a bit more like the average GAF member: informed and with a political stance, who doesn't buy bs from politicians.

 

[TAJ]

TIL that my Trump-loving mom thinks Obama is a practicing Muslim and an ISIS mole.