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i have to admit it fellas... SAVED! was an awesome movie!

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i just saw saved a couple nights ago. i went in not knowing much about the movie, only that it was a spoof or something on religion. so here are the positives:

+ great plot
+ nice pacing
+ mandy moore made an excellent villain! i was surprised by her performance
+ mccauleys still got it! good performance by him... the part where he did that dance with the wheelchair was pretty funny
+good points made
+ susan sorandons (spelled wrong i know) daughter is pretty cute

anyone else enjoy the movie? i would even consider seeing it again in theaters, and i hardly ever do that (last movie i saw multiple times in theaters was old school)



p.s. holy shit the anchorman previews were hilarious! i can't wait for that movie
 

arter_2

Member
no saved rocked it was way better than i expected it. i thought it woiuld be a movie making fun of crazy christians but it really wasnt it had a really good message and well when it wanted to be funny it was histerical. Plus all the charecters feel really genuine and mandy moore really isnt that bad as a crazy jesus bitch.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I think if you're going to make a movie about all the worst representations of a paticular religion, you should have at least one character in the movie who is a good representation of it. If this movie were about any other religion it'd be under a lot of heat, but it's cool to make fun of christians I guess. Cause as we know every last one of them are stupid, unaware, manipulative, self-righteous, close-minded, hypocritical sheep. :rolleyes:
 
Dice said:
I think if you're going to make a movie about all the worst representations of a paticular religion, you should have at least one character in the movie who is a good representation of it. If this movie were about any other religion it'd be under a lot of heat, but it's cool to make fun of christians I guess. Cause as we know every last one of them are stupid, unaware, manipulative, self-righteous, close-minded, hypocritical sheep. :rolleyes:

You must've ignored all the hatred Saved! got by Christians the weekend it was opening. It got plenty of heat. Alot of it were by people who hadn't even seen it but heard about a few things that happened in it and went on long rants about how it wasn't wrong. It's not a representation of the entire religion and everyone that believes it, it's a representation of those characters. Take it as that.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Yeah. I find the movie funny and I find a lot of things disturbingly familiar, but I'm just saying. If you're gonna make a movie like this about any group of people, you should have at least one good representation.
 

way more

Member
I've yet to see the movie, but isn't the main girl a good representation? I assume her character has a story arc of self discovery.
 
mac said:
I've yet to see the movie, but isn't the main girl a good representation? I assume her character has a story arc of self discovery.

She's basically eliminated from being "good" because of what she does to get on the bad side of her friends in the first place.
 
I don't think they need a good representation. They are spoofing those christians who take it to extremes, not the whole religion.

Think of it this way, if it was a movie about crazy soccer moms who are obsessed and pushing their kids, would the movie work any better if there was a soccer mom who could enjoy their child's sport quietly and politely?

People shouldn't be upset about this generalizing christians. I really see nowhere in the movie that suggests christians are all like that.
 

way more

Member
SolidSnakex said:
She's basically eliminated from being "good" because of what she does to get on the bad side of her friends in the first place.

Does she eat meat on Friday, bomb an abortion clinic, or give a guy a blowjob? I'm guessing its sex or something less severe, so why can't she do that and be a good christian?
 
mac said:
Does she eat meat on Friday, bomb an abortion clinic, or give a guy a blowjob? I'm guessing its sex or something less severe, so why can't she do that and be a good christian?

One day her boyfriend tells her that he thinks he's gay. So to "cure" him she ends up having sex with him.
 
Um, there ARE good representations of Christians in the movie though. What about the preacher's son? There are also good Christians (the Preacher, the main girl, the mom), who make mistakes, but then learn from them and correct themselves accrodingly.
 
mac said:
Does she eat meat on Friday, bomb an abortion clinic, or give a guy a blowjob? I'm guessing its sex or something less severe, so why can't she do that and be a good christian?

Because premarital sex is something the Church is AGAINST. How can you be a good Christian if you just pick and choose which aspects of the faith that you want to follow? I'm not saying you are a bad person if you decide to have sex, but you obviously aren't going to be a good Christian.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Well it doesn't help with what a couple of the characters seeminly conclude to. Their faith kinda breaks down, and they seem to think that some sort of God exists, but they end up rather agnostic when it comes to anything really paticular. They do seem to transform into nicer people, but they do not become better christians, in fact that part of them is diminished to almost nothing. This aspect combined with the rest of the film make it seem like it's trying to say christianity is incompatible with good sense or character, and the only way to be civil and/or sane is to have an undefined moral/belief base.

Think of it this way, if it was a movie about crazy soccer moms who are obsessed and pushing their kids, would the movie work any better if there was a soccer mom who could enjoy their child's sport quietly and politely?
Well, I'd say so, even better if one learns how to act proper.

People shouldn't be upset about this generalizing christians. I really see nowhere in the movie that suggests christians are all like that.
It's in the whole of the film, I just gave an example of how it does so. It doesn't explicitly state anything like that but it does paint the picture, and interpreted meaning is a big part of any film. You could go either way, but I think trying to pull a positive out of the thing would end up being a more contrived than a negative. And if the filmmakers intended otherwise they should have tried harder because the final product isn't convincing of their stated position. And keep that in mind, I'm not saying the filmmakers were just out to bash christianity or anything, just that the movie can kind of come off that way and it could have well avoided it with a positive representation of christianity in there somewhere.
 
I found the movie terrible.

Anyway, I don't see how it's a negative portrayal of Christians at all. The only people who view it this way are the people who've yet to see the movie, and who have no plans to ever see it. If you bothered watching the movie, you'd realize the movie ends on a very positive note about people having the right to be whatever it is they want to be.
 
Idle Will Kill said:
Because premarital sex is something the Church is AGAINST. How can you be a good Christian if you just pick and choose which aspects of the faith that you want to follow? I'm not saying you are a bad person if you decide to have sex, but you obviously aren't going to be a good Christian.
Because chances are every Christian is ignoring some tenet of his or her faith he or she is supposed to be following.

I hate to break it to you, but you're probably ignoring more than half of what both the Old and New Testament ask of you.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
If you bothered watching the movie, you'd realize the movie ends on a very positive note about people having the right to be whatever it is they want to be.
And that "whatever" not in any case being genuinely christian because christianity is portrayed as incompatible with the genuine faith in a persons heart (or at least that is the impression that it gives).

In reality, there is a distinction and often times conflict between moral conviction/faith and momentary desire, this movie all too well blurs that distinction and sends a clear message of how the latter ought to shape the former. Even going so far as to imply that if the former shapes the latter, there will be no concept of tolerance for the things in this world which go against your conviction. And in this false dichotomy it creates, it offers (by way of the few characters who choose it) the alternative stance of not mere tolerence, but full acceptance of most anything.

It then seems to pretend as though this worldview of grey shades is what Christ ultimately wanted or at least what the modern message of christianity ought to be. This is of course absurd because self-defined beliefs can not be called religion, you can all stand under the same name but with no order there is no religion or common faith by which to justify naming yourselves as a distinct group. It's the faith/moral equivalent of a government of anarchists. As I said before, it gives no positive representation of a real christian, and it does much to imply no such person may exist.

Because chances are every Christian is ignoring some tenet of his or her faith he or she is supposed to be following.

I hate to break it to you, but you're probably ignoring more than half of what both the Old and New Testament ask of you.
You're assuming that Idle Will Kill is a christian. On the matter of christians ignoring aspects of their faith, I'd say that many do, but I have met several that well know everything scripture calls of them and try very hard to live up to the standard. And they do very well, it's quite something to see among a culture of so many hypocrites, especialy their work with the needy, sick and imprisoned and how they handle opposition.

However when the standard is Jesus it's pretty much expected for a person to have a fault here and there, after all if man could be perfect he wouldn't need Jesus in the first place. But an occasional mistake one is sorrowful and repentant of is very different from a lifestyle outright ignoring some part of ones faith, and it's definitely too bold to charge every single christian of the latter.

This point does apply to the discussion of the movie though, as she did mess up but forgiveness is freely given to the repentant. She could have been a wonderful example of real christianity, which is that of real sinners made right with God through faith in Christ, but ultimately her faith fell on much more relativistic grounds. As for the preacher and the mom, where did they explicitly and effectively resolve for the better (better meaning better representations of christianity)?

Meh, actually you can respond to that if you wish but I'm getting tired of talking about this. It really is a funny movie, and recommended, I just have some qualms with it but don't care enough to get in a debate about it. I just figured I'd explain how a christian views it, I've done that so I'll leave it at that I guess. Plus I've had a pretty short attention span recently, can't seem to keep an interest in anything for long, don't know what that's about...
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Not to break into a bible study here, but I don't want christianity to be misrepresented. Don't read if you don't want to learn a bit about it, I'm just providing the info.

SKluck said:
Christians don't follow the Old Testament FYI. It's there for history mostly.
Actually we are supposed to. Jesus said so in the sermon on the mount...

Matthew 5
17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

"until everything is accomplished" = final judgement, establishment of new heaven & earth (see 1 Cor 13:8-10)

A lot of ceremonial commands were fulfilled in Christ and another big chunk was to be upheld by the Israeli judicial system, not on a personal level. With that, the debate over theonomy (the extent to which we are to apply this to our current governments) is quite extensive. But yeah, Christ didn't come to do away with the law, but He came to establish a new covenant by which that law was applied/fulfilled. So the form and function by which we live according to God's covenant changed, but not the law by which that covenant is based on. If you're interested, Hebrews talks about Christ and the covenants in detail.

Though your average person likes to assume all commandments in the OT are the law, rather than instructions on how to live according to the old covenant. This isn't true, but it's also not true that the whole OT is just there for history. Nobody would throw out what Christ said were the two greatest commandments (paraphrased: love God with all your being and love others as yourself), but those were already existing OT commandments, and a lot of others still apply to us in the same way.

However notice in looking at Deut 6:3-12 that there were some ceremonial practices that went along with the greatest commandment, but Christ doesn't mention them in Matt 22/Mark 12. That is because He brought fulfillment to those parts, yet the heart of the command still remains. But then aside from the ceremonial parts, we see from other teachings of Christ and the Apostles that some other specifics in Deut 6, such as teaching your children to love God and talking (in encouragement, instruction, thanksgiving) to each other about God's commandments and meditating on them also still apply.

It can be a difficult task to discern what we are to follow and what we aren't, then an even greater task to actually follow it. But so it is, and if you want to follow Christ it is commanded of you.

2 Tim 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

John 14:15
If you love me, you will obey what I command.

As for how much disobedience damns you, that can be a bit complicated to answer. You don't want to go too far to either extreme (legalism or antinomianism), there are clear warnings to obey but Christ came for a reason. The extremely summarized conclusion is to do your best to love and obey God by the strength of the Holy Spirit not your own, and have faith in Christ's grace shown in His work on the cross to save you not your works.

Hope you enjoyed my mini-sermon this good sunday morning, lol. As for me it's time to get ready to go to church for real, laters.
 

CrunchyB

Member
Idle Will Kill said:
How can you be a good Christian if you just pick and choose which aspects of the faith that you want to follow?

Isn't that religeon in a nutshell? Need I bring up shellfish?
 
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