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[asdasdasdbb]

one of the most memorable moments in FF4 was when Palom and Porom turned themselves into stone to save the party's live...I thought this was a good dramatic moment in the game, and their sacrifice really makes it work...but then the game fucks it up because yay, they show up, we're fine...we didn't actually kill ourselves. Way to ruin the dramatic moment.

I think you might have missed it, pretty sure there's someone in the room who says something to the effect of "We can reverse the stone but it'll take some time. You should move on"

I think there was originally going to be a Side Quest to do that... because the original JP version even gave a prompt if you go up to them.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Look at Clair Obscur. Finally a French developer came along and made the "JRPG for grown ups" that many of us desperately wanted for decades, and they were handsomely rewarded for it.

Spoiler

and they even had the balls to kill off the the leading man less than halfway through the game.

Not saying that western games don't have tropes, but that is a lame attempt at deflecting criticism away from lame storytelling that plagues many JRPGs

You know what game recently had the balls to kill off a main character and keep it that way? Expedition 33.

They need to follow this direction. What happens in JRPG's with supporting cast deaths and mains is exactly why I hate FF4's story, which I consider a major offender.



Yes, I think it's one of the best overall. Great series and great lore.

Love CO: E33, but in the spirit of this thread I think you're both wrong here.

Spoiler: E33 spoilers

They also pulled this bait and switch when they temporarily killed of the entire cast, such as Lune and Sciel only for Maelle to ressurect them with their full memories intact. Yes it's conceivable because of how the world itself was constructed and her abilities, but it still felt very cheap and was pretty much exactly what the OP is complaining about. Also bringing them back with all their memories felt contrived.

I think at times the plot in E33 and how it was told was messy too.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

aside from From Software I thinnk pretty much all JRPG's have generic tropes. I don't think Japanese writers enjoy taking risks.

From games have established their own tropes. Mainly the one about every talking character spewing absolute nonsense that an army of rabid stans will somehow squeeze some barely put-together sense out of.

Also, From games have enough dead people in them to compensate for all the resurrected characters from any manga, anime and game ever.

 

[Drell]

FF4 is the worst offender of this trope. People can't stop sacrifice themselves for Cecil's sake only to reappear some times later in a bed. Only Tellah did have the right to die becasue he's old lol.

 

[The Cockatrice]

From games have established their own tropes. Mainly the one about every talking character spewing absolute nonsense that an army of rabid stans will somehow squeeze some barely put-together sense out of.

Also, From games have enough dead people in them to compensate for all the resurrected characters from any manga, anime and game ever.

Yeah, to be fair From lore is becoming trope for the souls-like genre as well, as in almost everyone copies and turns their souls-like game into an obtuse non-sensical Shakespearean wannabe story and they all fail at it. Not that From Software has good storytelling, but at least they make an effort in environmental lore while everyone just puts random nonsense on item descriptions.

 

[Pejo]

Counterpoint: The show's plot went down a very odd and steep cliff the minute this character and his motivations left.

If a character is so important that they are an anchor to the game, book, or show's well-being (and everything suffers afterwards including weak secondary characters and/or bad writing in general), then there's an argument for not letting them die if they're carrying the property and plot.

Otherwise I agree with the point of the thread.

Nia stuff aside, I don't think that's true at all. His death helped shape Simon's growth and was more of a passing of the torch, but all that's just opinions. Then again, I do think that Trigger very rarely sticks the landing for a proper ending in their stories. Franxx was particularly bad, IMO.

I don't buy it.

日本における代表的なゲームの男女比や平均年齢がこちら

調査会社GEM Partnersが延べ18万人を対象に行った調査データをもとに日経エンタテインメントが集計した「推し活MAP」で、各エンターテインメントの男女比や平均年齢等が明らかになっている。調査データはあらゆるエンターテインメントを対象...

kultur.jp

According to this poll, average age of Japanese DQ/FF gamers is 42 years old, the highest of any series listed. I wouldn't be surprised if Tales of, Persona, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, and Legend of Heroes fanbases are close to that.

Well they are 42 NOW, not when the games were released and originally sold, as in when the story was written. Xenoblade Chronicles (the original) was released in 2010, which is 15 years ago. I doubt there were many 30+ year olds at that time buying a Wii for that game. People in that generation were playing Wii Sports and Just Dance with their family at get togethers. Final Fantasy was released in 1987, and it's highly unlikely the main series fans were 40~ years old at that time, they were kids that bought a NES (seen as a toy at that time).

If they were really catering to 40+ year olds in JRPGs, we wouldn't have seen shit like FFXVI turn into an ADHD action game, and stuff like that.

 

[March Climber]

Nia stuff aside, I don't think that's true at all. His death helped shape Simon's growth and was more of a passing of the torch, but all that's just opinions. Then again, I do think that Trigger very rarely sticks the landing for a proper ending in their stories. Franxx was particularly bad, IMO.

Fair point. I agree with the idea of Simon's growth and the torch passing, for me the execution just went too far into ridiculousness. I also agree with your opinion about Trigger endings. In a way it can be like watching an indie/creative horror film, as they also have issues with sticking the landing.