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[Archaix]

Well, for anybody who hasn't had the pleasure of visiting this city, I guess this article just about sums it up:


http://www.timesleader.com/news/20080327_27english_dw_ART.html

WILKES-BARRE – Learn English or go to jail.

That’s the succinct directive Luzerne County Judge Peter Paul Olszewski Jr. made as part of his sentence to four criminals on Tuesday.

The defendants – Luis Reyes, Ricardo Dominguez, Kelvin Reyes-Rosario and Rafael Guzman-Mateo – all needed translators when they appeared in court to plead guilty to criminal conspiracy to commit robbery. It led to Olszewski leveling the unusual condition.

He sentenced them each to four to 24 months in the county prison, but paroled three of them because they have already served at least four months.

But in order for them to avoid the 24 months in prison, Olszewski ordered the men to learn to read and write the English language, earn their GED, and, within 30 days of release, get a full-time job while on parole. The defendants, who range in age from 17 to 22, are to return to court in one year with their parole officers to take an English test, according to Olszewski’s order.

“If they don’t pass, they’re going in for the 24 (months),” Olszewski said.

Full story at link, along with some fucking absolutely creepy comments on the article.

First comments:

Well done judge .Weneed more like you in the court system

Ibelieve he did the right thing, period. English SHOULD be the official language. Others have come to this country and were PROUD to learn the English language. It represented FREEDOM and a New Life. Why else would so many people want to come to AMERICA !!!! Hurrah for you Mr.Olszewski. I applaud your stance!!! Native American and PROUD

 

[TheKingsCrown]

Worthless, backwards ass judge.

 

[Tauntaun]

Why is there a problem with that? If they can't speak english and were trying to commit robbery, first check if they're legal or not and if they are do what he did, if they're not lob them back into Mexico.

 

[teruterubozu]

Actually, it's more like "go to jail or learn English"

 

[GaimeGuy]

The fuck?

How can you tell people to learn english, get their GEDs, and that they have 30 days from their release to get a full-time job?

 

[Alex]

The fuck?

How can you tell people to learn english, get their GEDs, and that they have 30 days from their release to get a full-time job?

A year to get the GED and learn English, 30 days to get a job.

I think it's pretty fair, myself

 

[Outlaw]

30 days in not long enough to learn a language. 2 yrs would have been fine.

 

[levious]

Actually, it's more like "go to jail or learn English"

that's the key point that will probably be missed by most. He's offering them a way to avoid what they could have been sentenced to.

Also, in reference to one of the comments Archaix posted, it's a shame so many people think that hispanic immigrants don't want to learn english. Most try and do, but lack the time and resources. It's a long process for most and many are ashamed to speak broken english in public.

 

[RiskyChris]

Did you read the OP? OP didn't read the OP!

But in order for them to avoid the 24 months in prison, Olszewski ordered the men to learn to read and write the English language, earn their GED, and, within 30 days of release, get a full-time job while on parole. The defendants, who range in age from 17 to 22, are to return to court in one year with their parole officers to take an English test, according to Olszewski’s order.

Sounds like instead of giving them 24 months FOR CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES, he gives them the OPTION to switch jailtime for becoming a more productive member of society. That's what the penal system is supposed to do -- take criminals and make them more beneficial to society.

You cannot argue that learning English, getting at least a HS equivalent diploma, and getting a full-time job are bad or neutral for society.

 

[Skellig Gra]

What a fucking misleading title dude. You should know no one is going to read the entire article.

 

[lil smoke]

You cannot argue that learning English, getting at least a HS equivalent diploma, and getting a full-time job are bad or neutral for society.

Yet, that continues to be the argument.

 

[Archaix]

What a fucking misleading title dude. You should know no one is going to read the entire article.

It wasn't a misleading title, it was a misleading lead. I copied the first line of the story.

 

[Skellig Gra]

It wasn't a misleading title, it was a misleading lead. I copied the first line of the story.

Its obvious you dislike where you are from and all but what the judge did was actually a relatively reasonable thing. Try harder next time.

 

[RiskyChris]

Yet, that continues to be the argument.

You think learning English won't make someone's life easier and better?

Same with HS diploma?

Full-time job?

These are almost universal benefits to any resident of the USA. There is no argument that on the overwhelming average, those 3 things are all true for all USA residents.

 

[krzy123]

hmmmm ... new avoid jail time strategy ... request a translator!

 

[Amon37]

I approve of this sentencing.

 

[kojacker]

if guilty, they should be on the first, cheapest, plane back to a jail in their own country

I'm sorry, my mothers boss was kicked to death by a Lithuanian last week (who cant speak english, who had no job, who was on government handouts and had his house and everything paid for) who robbed him for a few pounds and left him to die on the street. I dont like our own scum, and I dont feel we should be keeping scum from other countries in our country.

I'm afraid that might be coming off as xenophobic, I genuinely believe anyone coming to contribute to our society is great and very welcome. Those who come to freeload, commit crimes.. not so much.

 

[ScientificNinja]

It annoys the living fuck out of me when I am in a supposedly English-speaking country and the person I am trying to buy lunch from, do business with or whatever DOESN'T SPEAK THE LANGUAGE. There are people who REFUSE TO BE (or are incapable) a contributing member of society because they don't speak English. Unless you're an elderly retired person, why the fuck are my taxes paying for your welfare??

Then there are the dumbfuck sales people who walk up to me or call my home and start talking to me in Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, and I just tell them flat out in English to talk to me in English. They get all defensive and say "don't you speak Chinese?" - and I say "yes I do, but only to people I know." God, don't even start me on Mormons (don't they learn several languages inside a month?)...

/rant

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I really don't see the problem.

Why is it an issue that folks learn to speak the language? My great grandparents had to learn to speak the language, my immigrant friends had to learn the speak the language, or does this somehow impose of their "civil rights"?

Would you move to France and expect them to learn English to accommodate you?

ESL, it's not just for breakfast!

What's more bothersome IIRC this is Wilkes Barre PA right?

Why are states so far North of the border so afraid of the Messycans?

DEY TERK ER JERBS!

No, they didn't Ohio (for example) just keeps hemorrhaging high level jobs and not replacing them. You can't blame the illegal immigrants for that one, but you can blame your local political leaders and businesses.

 

[Zaptruder]

GAF demands of OP: Learn English (comprehension) or GTFO.

 

[Evander]

So, these guys deserved jail time, but he offered to them that they could learn english instead?

I DO NOT support any of the "everyone must speak english" bullshit, but if it's a matter of him letting them off easy, then shit, they oughta go learn english, and integrate with society, rather than going to jail.

 

[ScientificNinja]

GAF demands of OP: Learn English (comprehension) or GTFO.

Hahah - I'm not the only Aussie having a sleepless night, then

 

[levious]

So, these guys deserved jail time, but he offered to them that they could learn english instead?

I DO NOT support any of the "everyone must speak english" bullshit, but if it's a matter of him letting them off easy, then shit, they oughta go learn english, and integrate with society, rather than going to jail.

yeah, they seem happy with the opportunity actually.

 

[Calcaneus]

That doesn't seem so crazy, they are criminals and the judge is providing them with an option to become better contributors to a largely English speaking society instead of the usual punishment of jail time.

I'd actually say that's pretty lenient.

 

[EricM85]

You make it sound like your town is randomly arresting people because they do not speak English. I think this is a wonderful punishment. Either serve your entire sentence, or educate yourself, find a full-time job, and better yourself.

Plus, from article:

Webby said his role as an attorney requires him to look at the legality of the ruling, but, as a person, he knows Olszewski’s choice is good for his client, Guzman-Mateo.

Guzman-Mateo realizes it, too.

“My client is happy,” Webby said.

And, from the judge:

The decision, he said, could help cut down on extreme costs associated with the paying for translators for each court appearance.

So, what's wrong with this again?

 

[Skellig Gra]

Worthless, backwards ass judge.

I don't know who has failed more in this thread, you or the OP.

 

[Amon37]

if guilty, they should be on the first, cheapest, plane back to a jail in their own country.

If they were illegal, yes.

It annoys the living fuck out of me when I am in a supposedly English-speaking country and the person I am trying to buy lunch from, do business with or whatever DOESN'T SPEAK THE LANGUAGE. There are people who REFUSE TO BE (or are incapable) a contributing member of society because they don't speak English.

This. I can't use the drive-thru at any fast food restaurant anymore because they cannot fucking speak english and the speaker makes their spanglish even more horrid.

I was in shock when I went to Del Taco last week and they had a white guy working the register. Why does it feel like a luxury now to have your order taken quickly, efficiently, and correctly in your own language?

 

[Evander]

The point of this isn't "Engloish am BEST. HOORAYS!"

The point is, if these guys integrate with society, they'll be less likely to commit crimes, and english is needed to intigrate.

 

[levious]

So, what's wrong with this again?

plenty, since people from both sides will use it as an opportunity to grandstand, when it's actually a nice little story about possible actual criminal reformation.

 

[Archaix]

GAF demands of OP: Learn English (comprehension) or GTFO.

:lol


I didn't comment on the judge's decision itself (It is fairly lenient anyway, regardless of whether they learn english and get jobs), my main problem was with the people who commented on the article. It's one thing to argue that this is much more effective at rehabilitation and integrating them into becoming positive members of society, which in theory should be the point of the penal system, but quite another to say that they should be deported because they don't speak English whether or not they are here legally.

And while it may not come across clearly (as I simply presented the article itself), I do have a problem with the total lack of journalistic quality in this city. We have two newspapers, something that is rarer and rarer in towns of this size, and get stuck with half-assed reporting and poor writing. Something I may be guilty of myself, but I'm not on the payroll of any news agency. Again, I copied the lead of the story. If I'm expected to put something more informative out there, then the same should be said of those writing the articles. I posted more than enough of the story to get a full picture of what happened.

All that said...they still mugged people, smacked somebody with a bone, and pulled out a gun during the process. I'm all for rehab, but there should be some degree of punishment for the act also.

 

[levious]

All that said...they still mugged people, smacked somebody with a bone, and pulled out a gun during the process. I'm all for rehab, but there should be some degree of punishment for the act also.

well they had already served time, and they're all felons now, and they're under probation as well. That's probably pretty fair in any situation for these charges.

 

[RiskyChris]

All that said...they still mugged people, smacked somebody with a bone, and pulled out a gun during the process. I'm all for rehab, but there should be some degree of punishment for the act also.

Our justice system isn't entirely about just penalizing people, but also about making society as a whole better. That's why rehab and shit are options instead of jail -- jail just doesn't work for some people (aka they will return to society as criminals/leechers).

 

[Skellig Gra]

lots of text

You should probably edit that in to the OP before things get worse in here.

 

[Sapiens]

I really don't see the big deal here.

 

[Skiptastic]

Thieves are arrested and convicted of conspiracy to commit robbery. Judge has option of throwing book at them. Chooses to give them an opportunity to improve their life and avoid jail time. Judge is now ass backwards.

Only on GAF!

 

[theBishop]

Wilkes Barre, eh? Philly has Geno's, you have this bullshit. Why are Pennsylvanians so caught up in this wedge-issue nonsense. The willingness to be manipulated is stunning.

I guess I'm a conservative on the English issue: GOVERNMENT SHOULD STAY OUT OF LANGUAGE!

How can we possibly have "Freedom of Speech" if speech itself is regulated?! Who determines what constitutes "English" if it is the official language of the US? Is British "Posh" English? Is street slang "English"?

Do we need to establish a Ministry of Truth to determine what words are legal?

 

[levious]

I really don't see the big deal here.

it's always a big deal when a judge shows actual interest and concern with the future life of a convicted criminal. It's a shame that it's so rare.

 

[Evander]

Wilkes Barre, eh? Philly has Geno's, you have this bullshit. Why are Pennsylvanians so caught up in this wedge-issue nonsense. The willingness to be manipulated is stunning.

I guess I'm a conservative on the English issue: GOVERNMENT SHOULD STAY OUT OF LANGUAGE!

How can we possibly have "Freedom of Speech" if speech itself is regulated?! Who determines what constitutes "English" if it is the official language of the US? Is British "Posh" English? Is street slang "English"?

Do we need to establish a Ministry of Truth to determine what words are legal?

So you'drather they just go to jail?

 

[ronito]

This offends me on several levels.

The least of which is the hinting it makes that if you don't speak english you likely lead a life of crime.

But really it mostly offends me because it will do nothing to stop crime. If learning english really had any effect on reducing crime there would be ESL programs in every jail.

 

[Dark Octave]

I agree with the judge 100%.

Even Gaf says, learn English or gtfo. If you wanna be a part of this online community, no other language will do but English.

 

[Skellig Gra]

This offends me on several levels.

The least of which is the hinting it makes that if you don't speak english you likely lead a life of crime.

But really it mostly offends me because it will do nothing to stop crime. If learning english really had any effect on reducing crime there would be ESL programs in every jail.

Offends you? Do you need a fucking tissue? Your assumptions are ridiculous. Plenty of people are let out of jail early in agreement to provide some service to better society.

 

[RiskyChris]

This offends me on several levels.

The least of which is the hinting it makes that if you don't speak english you likely lead a life of crime.

But really it mostly offends me because it will do nothing to stop crime. If learning english really had any effect on reducing crime there would be ESL programs in every jail.

omfg

That is NOT the conclusion the judge draws. He knows they are currently not well-off financially, therefore part of a high-risk group that criminals come from. He knows that shit like learning English OPENS UP DOORS for those people so they don't need to commit crimes to sustain their lives.

 

[lil smoke]

You think learning English won't make someone's life easier and better?

Same with HS diploma?

Full-time job?

These are almost universal benefits to any resident of the USA. There is no argument that on the overwhelming average, those 3 things are all true for all USA residents.

I completely agree. I am amazed that there is even question about it. However, we all know it boils down to ... EXCUSES. People don't respect this country. They don't want to learn the language.

 

[Dark Octave]

I completely agree. I am amazed that there is even question about it. However, we all know it boils down to ... EXCUSES. People don't respect this country. They don't want to learn the language.

.

 

[theBishop]

So you'drather they just go to jail?

The judge's decision:

learn to read and write the English language, earn their GED, and, within 30 days of release, get a full-time job while on parole. The defendants, who range in age from 17 to 22, are to return to court in one year with their parole officers to take an English test, according to Olszewski’s order.

Is an "activist" judgment in my opinion. It is common for someone to be required to be "gainfully employed" as a term for their parole. What business is it of anyone if he is gainfully employed speaking Spanish or English?

 

[theBishop]

I agree with the judge 100%.

Even Gaf says, learn English or gtfo. If you wanna be a part of this online community, no other language will do but English.

NeoGaf doesn't pretend to be a democracy.

 

[RiskyChris]

The judge's decision:


Is an "activist" judgment in my opinion. It is common for someone to be required to be "gainfully employed" as a term for their parole. What business is it of anyone if he is gainfully employed speaking Spanish or English?

Much much higher chance that he will succeed in getting a job with English abilities.

 

[ronito]

omfg

That is NOT the conclusion the judge draws. He knows they are currently not well-off financially, therefore part of a high-risk group that criminals come from. He knows that shit like learning English OPENS UP DOORS for those people so they don't need to commit crimes to sustain their lives.

oh I agree that's not what the judge is saying. However racists will take it that way.

But again my main thing about it is despite english being all exceptions and no rules it can hardly be counted as punishment or deterrent to crime.

 

[EricM85]

The judge's decision:


Is an "activist" judgment in my opinion. It is common for someone to be required to be "gainfully employed" as a term for their parole. What business is it of anyone if he is gainfully employed speaking Spanish or English?

No one is forcing them to learn English. If they don't want to accept the judge's conditions for an early release, they can just as easily serve the full 24 month sentence.

 

[Cheeto]

Actually, it's more like "go to jail or learn English"

.

Sounds good to me.