I love my town: Go to jail...or learn English

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theBishop said:
The judge's decision:


Is an "activist" judgment in my opinion. It is common for someone to be required to be "gainfully employed" as a term for their parole. What business is it of anyone if he is gainfully employed speaking Spanish or English?
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Since this is a town in Pensylvania, rather than, say, Texas, I'm assuming that learning English is pretty much a neccesity for really intigrating into society there.

The guys deserve to go to jail, and he DID sentance them to jail, but he also made them a seperate offer which is an outline of how to get their lives back on track.



If he hadn't made the offer at all, things would be fine, and if he made the offer, but english wasn't a part of it, things would be fine, but him mentioning english (for a TOTALLY legit reason) makes everything wrong?
 
lil smoke said:
I completely agree. I am amazed that there is even question about it. However, we all know it boils down to ... EXCUSES. People don't respect this country. They don't want to learn the language.
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bullshit, immigrants, both legal and illegal, love this country. They also want to learn English. I doubt many of you interact with "these people" in any meaningful way.
 
Wow OP....Talking about selective reading. Either really bias or just can't read...english:lol

Sounds like the judge wanted them to benefit themselves instead of having them roit in jail. Get a degree, learn the most common langauge in the country, and get a job. Or spend 2years in jail.
 
theBishop said:
The judge's decision:


Is an "activist" judgment in my opinion. It is common for someone to be required to be "gainfully employed" as a term for their parole. What business is it of anyone if he is gainfully employed speaking Spanish or English?
Click to expand...
It's MY business, because when I go to Wal-Mart I need to communicate with the cashier. When I go to the bank, I need to be able to communicate with my loan agent. When I go to do my taxes, when I go to a resturaunt, when I go to school, I need my tax preparer, my waiter, and my teacher to speak English for me to communicate with them.

Hell, even the guy that changes my tire can communicate with me enough to know what type of tire I need and how much I need to pay. Saying someone shouldn't learn English in America is one of the silliest things I've ever heard in my life. So what are us born and raised Americans suppossed to learn every other language in the world to pay for a movie ticket or see a doctor?
 
levious said:
bullshit, immigrants, both legal and illegal, love this country. They also want to learn English. I doubt many of you interact with "these people" in any meaningful way.
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I can only speak of my daily experiences in NYC. I'm not doubting they "love" what this country provides. We offer opportunity. What's not to love about that?

But respect is another level.
 
Evander said:
Since this is a town in Pensylvania, rather than, say, Texas, I'm assuming that learning English is pretty much a neccesity for really intigrating into society there.

The guys deserve to go to jail, and he DID sentance them to jail, but he also made them a seperate offer which is an outline of how to get their lives back on track.



If he hadn't made the offer at all, things would be fine, and if he made the offer, but english wasn't a part of it, things would be fine, but him mentioning english (for a TOTALLY legit reason) makes everything wrong?
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I live in Pennsylvania. I've met plenty of people working with little or no english skills.
 
lil smoke said:
I'm not doubting they "love" what this country provides. We offer opportunity. What's not to love about that?

But respect is another level.
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clearly I guess
 
so what's the problem? Go to jail and cost taxpayer money, or learn english, and pay back into the tax system by working?

Score one for the judge. We need more ppl like you who thinks outside the box!

Btw, if they're illegal, we should charge their country of origin for the money required to deport them! (this last sentence is half joke, half serious)
 
levious said:
clearly I guess
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What, do you have a problem with immigrants learning English? Or do you think as an American, I should be forced to learn Spanish and accomodate. Which do you think is correct?
 
Deporting illegal immigrants makes as much sense as abstinence only sex education.

Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.
 
Evander said:
I care FAR MORE about immigrants getting carinsurance than I do what language they speak.
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I bet you'll care when somebody crashes into you and repeats "me no speaka" or better yet, drives off because of fear hightened by confusion from not knowing how to communicate with you. My cousin's girlfriend got hit by a car, rolled off the hood, and landed on the ground. The guy took off because his lack of English disabled his confidence to handle the situation.
 
Everyone should learn english living in America. They can speak their language too, but we should not have to accomodate them. If we moved to a non-english speaking country, wouldn't we have to learn their language?
 
lil smoke said:
What, do you have a problem with immigrants learning English? Or do you think as an American, I should be forced to learn Spanish and accomodate. Which do you think is correct?
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Whoa, now!

Which judge has ordered you to learn Spanish?



If you can't understand the clerks at one store, then go to a different store.
 
Evander said:
Deporting illegal immigrants makes as much sense as abstinence only sex education.

Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.
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Well, then, I can only see 2 cost effective way of doing it then.

Shoot them to kill.

or grant them permanent residency. Which will open Pandora's box to anyone and everyone that wants to live in the US.
 
Evander said:
Whoa, now!

Which judge has ordered you to learn Spanish?



If you can't understand the clerks at one store, then go to a different store.
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Why should I have to do this? Wow.

If you can't understand the clerks at one store, then go to a different store...If you don't want to learn English immigrate to another country.
 
lil smoke said:
What, do you have a problem with immigrants learning English?
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if you had read my previous comments, you'd see I liked what the judge did a great deal. I do not like the sentiment expressed in the comments to the original article. Nor did I like your attitudes and assumptions about immigrants.

Like I said earlier, the only problem with this story is the grandstanding that people from all sides of the issue will no doubt do. There's really nothing to argue about here, since the convicts were happy with the verdict and seem to welcome the opportunity. Hopefully they can make the best of it.
 
Dark Octave said:
It's MY business, because when I go to Wal-Mart I need to communicate with the cashier. When I go to the bank, I need to be able to communicate with my loan agent. When I go to do my taxes, when I go to a resturaunt, when I go to school, I need my tax preparer, my waiter, and my teacher to speak English for me to communicate with them.

Hell, even the guy that changes my tire can communicate with me enough to know what type of tire I need and how much I need to pay. Saying someone shouldn't learn English in America is one of the silliest things I've ever heard in my life. So what are us born and raised Americans suppossed to learn every other language in the world to pay for a movie ticket or see a doctor?
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None of those things are "YOUR business". Its the business of the person hiring those people. If you feel Wal-Mart, or the bank, or your loan agent, or restaurant, or school is providing poor customer service as a result of inadequate language skills: SHOP, BANK, LOAN, EAT, LEARN SOMEWHERE ELSE. Its the free market in action.

I suppose you take offense when a foreign film comes to your local theater: I mean, WTF?! why should I have to learn French to watch their movie?! This is AMERICA!

I don't begrudge all the morons out there that don't know how to use a computer. If they can get by without those skills, its none of my business.
 
Dark Octave said:
I bet you'll care when somebody crashes into you and repeats "me no speaka" or better yet, drives off because of fear hightened by confusion from not knowing how to communicate with you. My cousin's girlfriend got hit by a car, rolled off the hood, and landed on the ground. The guy took off because his lack of English disabled his confidence to handle the situation.
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More likely the guy took off because he had no insurance.

I don't NEED to hold a conversation with the person, I just need their insurance information, which is EASY to ask for non-verbally by showing them mine, and then pointing to them. People who speak only spanish are not animals.



I recently WAS hit by an uninsured driver. The language barrier was not an issue in getting her information, but the no-insurance barrier made it hell to get the car repaired.
 
Dark Octave said:
I'm sorry dude but that's just ridiculous.
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the store owner is free to employ who he wants, you're free to speak with you dollar. Complain to the owner as well. This shouldn't be a mandate from the government.
 
levious said:
if you had read my previous comments, you'd see I liked what the judge did a great deal. I do not like the sentiment expressed in the comments to the original article. Nor did I like your attitudes and assumptions about immigrants.

Like I said earlier, the only problem with this story is the grandstanding that people from all sides of the issue will no doubt do. There's really nothing to argue about here, since the convicts were happy with the verdict and seem to welcome the opportunity. Hopefully they can make the best of it.
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You mean, my experience.
 
If we're going this way can we also make speaking with a Southern accent a misdemeanor and levy fines against people who use double negatives?
 
theBishop said:
None of those things are "YOUR business". Its the business of the person hiring those people. If you feel Wal-Mart, or the bank, or your loan agent, or restaurant, or school is providing poor customer service as a result of inadequate language skills: SHOP, BANK, LOAN, EAT, LEARN SOMEWHERE ELSE. Its the free market in action.

I suppose you take offense when a foreign film comes to your local theater: I mean, WTF?! why should I have to learn French to watch their movie?! This is AMERICA!

I don't begrudge all the morons out there that don't know how to use a computer. If they can get by without those skills, its none of my business.
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those french films come with subtitles
 
lil smoke said:
Why should I have to do this? Wow.

If you can't understand the clerks at one store, then go to a different store...If you don't want to learn English immigrate to another country.
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Why?

Because you don't speak Spanish.



Why are you some how better than spanish speakers? Because your family has lived here a couple of generations longer?


If the owners of a particular store want to hire employees who do not speak english, that is their RIGHT. If you do not want to support that business, that is your RIGHT.

You DO NOT, however, have the right to force other people to do things just to make it more convenient for you.
 
levious said:
bullshit, immigrants, both legal and illegal, love this country. They also want to learn English. I doubt many of you interact with "these people" in any meaningful way.
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some do and some dont, people are people wherever they come from - you get decent ones with manners and others who are here to take what they can how they can

I live in a town which has taken in a large number of immigrants, i believe our population has increased by a third due to immigration over the past 3 years. It because on the outskirts there is a large chicken factory and other farms which need the extra workers at a price the locals wont do the job for.

There are 2 houses with immigrants near where I live. Down the street from me is a house with 6 bedrooms and a living room, holding 23 Portugese guys. Never had a bother from them, they are all polite and getting on with their thing. Feel sorry they have to live in cramped conditions but thats life i guess. Wish them all the best.

5 houses to my right hand side is a house with Polish immigrants who are not so polite. My neighbour caught one of them wrecking about in his garage at 3am, they come around the doors everyday begging, always drinking on the street (its 5pm now and I can see one of them staggering around with a can in his hand), I've caught one pissing in my garden (no shame), and they even broke my fence. And a bunch of other stuff which might sound petty but feels anti-social at best, in a neighbourhood which was pretty sleepy before the arrival.

All this kind of stuff mixed with the murder last week, as I said on the first page by a Lithuanian, is stirring up a lot of bad feeling in the town.

In my own experience where I live, I find that those who cant speak english either are exploited or end up committing crimes to support themselves. I'm sure it is in their own interest to learn a little English, not only to integrate but to help protect themselves.
 
lil smoke said:
You mean, my experience.
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assumptions based on your experience, fine. Unless, you wanna tell me that you actually speak spanish and a number of these non-english speaking immigrants have expressed to you in detail how they don't particularly like this country, only care to get what they can out of it, and have no respect for the rest of us.


kojacker said:
some do and some dont, people are people wherever they come from - you get decent ones with manners and others who are here to take what they can how they can
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true, I should have said most, and my experience with immigrants is limited to spanish speaking ones.
 
Flynn said:
If we're going this way can we also make speaking with a Southern accent a misdemeanor and levy fines against people who use double negatives?
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Irregardless of your feelin's aginst us sudden' peoples, what you're saying has no relation to what the judge ruled. Did you even bother to read the article? No of course not, this is neogaf, read sensationalist thread title -> overreact without reading OP -> post said overreaction.
 
Evander said:
More likely the guy took off because he had no insurance.

I don't NEED to hold a conversation with the person, I just need their insurance information, which is EASY to ask for non-verbally by showing them mine, and then pointing to them. People who speak only spanish are not animals.



I recently WAS hit by an uninsured driver. The language barrier was not an issue in getting her information, but the no-insurance barrier made it hell to get the car repaired.
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Who said he didn't have insurance? Who said he spoke Spanish? Who said he was an animal? What was he gonna say to her? "euc sdugewugdjn dhdg"? Yeah, that'll help her. And it'll help difuse the situation. It'll help to communicate with her and see if she's ok. They found him and his exact words (translated of course) was what I said earlier, he didn't speak English so he was confused about how to communicate with her.
 
Tideas said:
Well, then, I can only see 2 cost effective way of doing it then.

Shoot them to kill.

or grant them permanent residency. Which will open Pandora's box to anyone and everyone that wants to live in the US.
Click to expand...

Just like how teaching teens to use condoms turns them into rampant sex maniacs?



I'm not suggesting we open up our borders, just that the folks who DO get through be offered a process whereby they can earn amnesty.

These folks ARE here, whether you like it or not, and you won't be able to simply "round them up" without having our own little "spanish inquisition". Even if you did get them all, that would devestate our economy.



Let's keep tightening our borders, but atthe same time let's give the folks who make it through amnesty so that we can start collecting taxes from them, etc.
 
Dark Octave said:
Who said he didn't have insurance? Who said he spoke Spanish? Who said he was an animal? What was he gonna say to her? "euc sdugewugdjn dhdg"? Yeah, that'll help her. And it'll help difuse the situation. It'll help to communicate with her and see if she's ok. They found him and his exact words (translated of course) was what I said earlier, he didn't speak English so he was confused about how to communicate with her.
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calming her down is more important than paying for damages?

I understand your personal connection here, but excuse me if I'm a bit more concerned with the legal ramifications of property damage and physical injury over those of hurt feelings.
 
captive said:
Irregardless of your feelin's aginst us sudden' peoples, what you're saying has no relation to what the judge ruled. Did you even bother to read the article? No of course not, this is neogaf, read sensationalist thread title -> overreact without reading OP -> post said overreaction.
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Yes, I read the article. Any yes, my comment has everything to do with the argument in this thread. We're talking about applying the law or judging people based on the way they talk. Why should only Spanish speakers be held up to such high standards?
 
good to see the town i grew up in in the news, just not for this. I remember last year Lou Dobbs going nuts about Hazleton and how awesome they were for standing up to the "hoarde of illegal immigrants"
 
this is going to sound racists, haha, but, I remember my parents complaining about mexicans and how they're only over here to have babies, and live off welfare money, and get fat while at it.

I don't blame them though. We're immigrants ourselves, but when we were living in the inner ghettos of SD, all around us they just saw fat mexicans with like 4-5 little kids trailing behind them.

Everyday whenever we see one, my dad would say damn them, they're just getting here to give kids, and live off welfare money.

Of course, they've never seen a successful mexican before, or see fat white ppl living off welfare.

And to this day, they still have their own conspiracy theory that mexicans are planning on taking back California by just immigrating here, reproduce, and slowly wipe out the english language and white ppl.

Which is technically true. Some study showed that if the current pace is kept up, english will not be CA's majority's language in 5-10 years

of course, other studies show that not to be the case because with each generation, the motherland language is lost, which is sad :(
 
levious said:
assumptions based on your experience, fine. Unless, you wanna tell me that you actually speak spanish and a number of these non-english speaking immigrants have expressed to you in detail how they don't particularly like this country, only care to get what they can out of it, and have no respect for the rest of us.
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Well I am allowed to make an assumption based on experience. It's called judgement. You act like the sentiment doesn't exist. As said above there are good immigrants and bad immigrants. I didn't think I had to even explain that for you. Anyway, the bad ones can suck on one as far as I'm concerned. I do think some immigrants need to go back where they came from, yes I said it.

I don't really feel like spelling out the reasons why I feel the way I do... it's friday and this is a touchy subject to get into. I'm not in the mood to argue this any longer, however I'll laugh with ya in the next thread. Out.
 
All you folks getting scared are forgetting to look atthe socioeconomic status of the spanish speakers.

These are not captains of industry who have the power to change the way we speak.

All that'll happen is spanish replacing ebonics.
 
Does anyone arguing in favor of governing the English language live in a major city?

I live 2 blocks away from a major Vietnamese section of the city, where English is probably not the "official language" of that neighborhood. There are heavily Mexican sections, Chinatown, Italian areas, etc. Guess where the best places to eat are! :lol I don't speak Vietnamese or Mandarin, or Mexican, or Italian, but I love having all that rich culture nearby.

America is an immigrant nation. Its easy to forget that when you live in your own bubble on an acre of cut grass and have to drive 30 minutes to get anywhere worthwhile, but that's your problem, not America's problem.
 
my parents have the same reaction as they still live in that area. The school i went to (graduated in 98) had 600 in my graduating class, now there are 1100 in a graduating class (9th grade), and they just had an article last week about how like 20% are illiterate, and something like 30% are enrolled in ESL classes.

All i hear about on the news up there is the burden on the schools all these kids are and they cant afford to help them because their parents arent paying taxes. I have no idea if its true or not, i'm so far removed from that area i have no idea whats going on, but thats a taste of daily news life there.
 
Evander said:
Why?

Because you don't speak Spanish.



Why are you some how better than spanish speakers? Because your family has lived here a couple of generations longer?


If the owners of a particular store want to hire employees who do not speak english, that is their RIGHT. If you do not want to support that business, that is your RIGHT.

You DO NOT, however, have the right to force other people to do things just to make it more convenient for you.
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Dude Smoke and I live in America. When we go to Mexico or Spain to LIVE, we will learn Spanish. If I go to China I will be learning Cantonese or Mandarin. Why would anyone go to live in a country and refuse to become a part of it? America is an English speaking country. That's all there is to it.
 
lil smoke said:
I don't really feel like spelling out the reasons why I feel the way I do... it's friday and this is a touchy subject to get into. I'm not in the mood to argue this any longer, however I'll laugh with ya in the next thread. Out.
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true, no hard feelings.
 
Evander said:
calming her down is more important than paying for damages?

I understand your personal connection here, but excuse me if I'm a bit more concerned with the legal ramifications of property damage and physical injury over those of hurt feelings.
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:lol Who is thinking about money when she just got hit and rolled over a moving car??
 
Dark Octave said:
Dude Smoke and I live in America. When we go to Mexico or Spain to LIVE, we will learn Spanish. If I go to China I will be learning Cantonese or Mandarin. Why would anyone go to live in a country and refuse to become a part of it? America is an English speaking country. That's all there is to it.
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I'm a second generation American, born and raised in our nation's capital. I come from a family of proud Americans. My immigrant grandfather was NEVER happier than when he was paying his taxes.

There is NO law that says you have to speak english in america. if these folks want to move up in the world, they'll have to learn english. Let the market force them to learn when they are ready, stop thinking that you are better than them just because you were born here.

America is about freedom, and part of that is speaking whatever language you choose. Love it or leave it, bub.
 
Flynn said:
Yes, I read the article. Any yes, my comment has everything to do with the argument in this thread. We're talking about applying the law or judging people based on the way they talk. Why should only Spanish speakers be held up to such high standards?
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Why should Spanish speakers get special treatment? Why should companies have to have at least one person that speaks Spanish just to accommodate people that either don't care or just plain refuse to learn English? I know immigrants that have been here 20 years and still struggle to even put together a sentence in English.

Not to mention every hispanic/latino that i know that are successful speak fluently both Spanish and English. The judge is doing them a favor by making them get their GED and learning English. It will do nothing but benefit them in the long run.

I really dont understand what problem you people have. The judge made a ruling giving them the OPTION of learning english and getting their GED and getting a job and receiving no jail time. Or going to jail?
And you people are outraged by this option yet, even the defendants in this case were smart enough to realize the deal they were just given.
 
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