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[garath]

So PC GAF. We've had a bit of a splash here with two games indicating they want some more VRAM. I've put some thought into it and I don't see this deterring me from purchasing a 970.

Reason being, it looks like games are going to aim for that 4gig VRAM mark as a good "high" texture mark. Ultra textures or basically anything greater than you'd see on consoles might want more VRAM but when it comes to performance, the extra RAM isn't going to help performance for the high textures. There MAY be some 6-8gig variants of the 970/980 coming but if I had to guess, I'd say the price will easily be $100-200 more for the higher VRAM. Now we're moving out of that real good price to performance realm (which I personally always look for) and into the high end enthusiast card realm.

I have an i5 2500k and plan on milking that until I see a new gaming CPU shake things up. I don't see myself on the ultra texture bandwagon until that happens. My 660ti DEFINITELY won't give me the performance I'm looking for so the 970 really fits the bill for that price/performance point.

Nvidia has stated new DirectX will include the memory compression techniques which may make that 4gigs get a little more legs and given the fact that so few PC users even have over 2gigs of VRAM, a smart developer (like the Mordor guys) will accommodate the lower VRAM in the settings.

I think a 970 is a good buy and will be a great performer for the upcoming years. The only reason I'd wait is if I wanted to go full on top end but then I'm sacrificing my enjoyment for the next year.

 

[mkenyon]

So PC GAF. We've had a bit of a splash here with two games indicating they want some more VRAM. I've put some thought into it and I don't see this deterring me from purchasing a 970.

Which games?

 

[garath]

Which games?

Evil Within with the 4 gigs or die and Mordor with the 6Gig ultra texture.

 

[wilflare]

should I upgrade from my 280X? to a 970?

and what's a good successor to my Silverstone FT01?

 

[Salaadin]

So PC GAF. We've had a bit of a splash here with two games indicating they want some more VRAM. I've put some thought into it and I don't see this deterring me from purchasing a 970.

Reason being, it looks like games are going to aim for that 4gig VRAM mark as a good "high" texture mark. Ultra textures or basically anything greater than you'd see on consoles might want more VRAM but when it comes to performance, the extra RAM isn't going to help performance for the high textures. There MAY be some 6-8gig variants of the 970/980 coming but if I had to guess, I'd say the price will easily be $100-200 more for the higher VRAM. Now we're moving out of that real good price to performance realm (which I personally always look for) and into the high end enthusiast card realm.

I have an i5 2500k and plan on milking that until I see a new gaming CPU shake things up. I don't see myself on the ultra texture bandwagon until that happens. My 660ti DEFINITELY won't give me the performance I'm looking for so the 970 really fits the bill for that price/performance point.

Nvidia has stated new DirectX will include the memory compression techniques which may make that 4gigs get a little more legs and given the fact that so few PC users even have over 2gigs of VRAM, a smart developer (like the Mordor guys) will accommodate the lower VRAM in the settings.

I think a 970 is a good buy and will be a great performer for the upcoming years. The only reason I'd wait is if I wanted to go full on top end but then I'm sacrificing my enjoyment for the next year.

I'm so close to canceling my 970 order due to the VRAM but I don't know if the 8GB variants are in my price range. Shitty choice to make.

I just want a beefy card that'll last me 2 years for 1080p gaming at highest settings when possible. I thought The 970 was it but that other thread has all kinds of ideas in my head now.

 

[mkenyon]

Evil Within with the 4 gigs or die and Mordor with the 6Gig ultra texture.

There's already been performance reviews? Apologies asking for the lazy method, but links to what your referencing?

I'm so close to canceling my 970 order due to the VRAM but I don't know if the 8GB variants are in my price range. Shitty choice to make.

I just want a beefy card that'll last me 2 years for 1080p gaming at highest settings when possible. I thought The 970 was it but that other thread has all kinds of ideas in my head now.

I want to read this discussion, but I very much doubt 4GB of VRAM is going to be limiting at 1080p.

 

[garath]

There's already been performance reviews? Apologies asking for the lazy method, but links to what your referencing?

I want to read this discussion, but I very much doubt 4GB of VRAM is going to be limiting at 1080p.

Mordor:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=901841

Wants 6Gigs for Ultra textures

Evil within:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=901511

Developers are recommending 4 gigs. Further into the thread, you have Bethesda's community guy saying that they are adamant that less than 4 gigs would not be a good experience.

warning: both threads are really FUD ridden.

I'm so close to canceling my 970 order due to the VRAM but I don't know if the 8GB variants are in my price range. Shitty choice to make.

I just want a beefy card that'll last me 2 years for 1080p gaming at highest settings when possible. I thought The 970 was it but that other thread has all kinds of ideas in my head now.

That's exactly where I'm coming from with my post. I fully believe a 970 with 4gigs will be that card. It's the right price and will offer great performance for that price over the next couple years. I think the VRAM shakeup isn't something that should detract from the 970 card purchase. Any additional VRAM cards we'll see will be priced out of my range at least and offer negligible performance increases. At best you'll get the better textures but at a huge premium in price.

 

[mkenyon]

Ugh.

So because of one game's unoptimized "ultra" setting, and a totally unproven claim about VRAM usage in another game?

Empiricism is important folks. Don't bite into hearsay and a huge exception. Skyrim with mods made 2GB cards cry, but that wasn't an objectively good reason to look at the rest of games.

 

[The Llama]

Ugh.

So because of one game's unoptimized "ultra" setting, and a totally unproven claim about VRAM usage in another game?

Empiricism is important folks. Don't bite into hearsay and a huge exception. Skyrim with mods made 2GB cards cry, but that wasn't an objectively good reason to look at the rest of games.

If they were simply copying and pasting the specs from another game, or something stupid, I'd agree with you. But these devs seem very confident in what they're saying. Don't think they're saying what they are to create arguments on the internet.

And hell, I'm all for it. Game devs have been hurt for too long by having to develop for the PS360. I'm glad we're seeing RAM usage increase so heavily. Means devs are looking beyond the old consoles.

 

[diaspora]

I'm seeing the benchmarks of the 970, and I'm not quite understanding them. Based off the GPU-Z screenshots of the 970 and the 7970, they look very similar.Why is there such a difference in performance?

 

[kharma45]

I'm seeing the benchmarks of the 970, and I'm not quite understanding them. Based off the GPU-Z screenshots of the 970 and the 7970, they look very similar.Why is there such a difference in performance?

They're totally different chips.

 

[The Llama]

I'm seeing the benchmarks of the 970, and I'm not quite understanding them. Based off the GPU-Z screenshots of the 970 and the 7970, they look very similar.Why is there such a difference in performance?

I assume you're trying to compare the number of shaders and clock speed, etc.? Short answer is it doesn't work like that. Different architectures mean that kind of stuff isn't comparable between different GPU models.

 

[mkenyon]

If they were simply copying and pasting the specs from another game, or something stupid, I'd agree with you. But these devs seem very confident in what they're saying. Don't think they're saying what they are to create arguments on the internet.

And hell, I'm all for it. Game devs have been hurt for too long by having to develop for the PS360. I'm glad we're seeing RAM usage increase so heavily. Means devs are looking beyond the old consoles.

I'm not saying that Shadow of Mordor stuff is off. But what I'm saying is that they probably didn't put a lot of effort into streamlining the Ultra texture package for a ton of reasons, so it has an abnormally high VRAM usage. Much like Skyrim modded. What I'm saying is that it is not going to be indicative of what future games will require, much like modded Skyrim.

And if a 780 Ti doesn't run Evil Within better than a 970, I'd gladly accept an avatar bet.

 

[kharma45]

And if a 780 Ti doesn't run Evil Within better than a 970, I'd gladly accept an avatar bet.

I think it'll be tight on that one. 780 Ti with more mature drivers though should edge it.

 

[mkenyon]

I think it'll be tight on that one. 780 Ti with more mature drivers though should edge it.

Yeah, I should say, I'll take an avatar bet to see if the 780 Ti has performance issues due to VRAM usage that makes it a solidly worse choice than the 970. I think that's more accurate to the point.

 

[diaspora]

Newegg is busting my balls over here. I went to the Canadian site to see if I can get the 970, and I can. With $12 shipping. I might as well wait for NCIX to release it so I can just walk to the warehouse to pick it up...

 

[Salaadin]

That's exactly where I'm coming from with my post. I fully believe a 970 with 4gigs will be that card. It's the right price and will offer great performance for that price over the next couple years. I think the VRAM shakeup isn't something that should detract from the 970 card purchase. Any additional VRAM cards we'll see will be priced out of my range at least and offer negligible performance increases. At best you'll get the better textures but at a huge premium in price.

I'm actually avoiding amazon so I don't end up making a knee jerk decision. Once they ship that 970, I'm locked in lol.

I hate how hard it is to read threads like the ones you linked. They're so reactionary. I have no idea if anyone really knows what they're talking about yet theyre so in my head

 

[Salty Hippo]

Does anyone use the Microsoft USB receiver to play with their wireless Xbox 360 controllers on PC? I have a friend who said a wired controller is better because some games won't work with wireless, is that true?

I already have a 360 wireless controller so it would be a lot cheaper to me to just buy the USB dongle, but if there are compatibility issues I might just get a brand new wired one or a X1 controller with a mini USB cable.

 

[LilJoka]

I hate the PSU that comes with the EVGA Hadron case.
To clarify, I don't do much PC gaming except for indies and as far as I was concerned, everything was going fine.
The real issue comes when I try to run a demanding game, the PSU fan goes insanely noisy as if it's going to explode. I bought rubber feet for the case trying to get a better air flow for the case but no difference. And since the PSU is custom made for the case, changing it isn't a valid option.

Now, I'm thinking about changing the whole case. Any suggestions for Mini-ITX cases?

Very good info to know about the PSU for future recommendations. What CPU and GPU are you running?

Node 304 and Coolemaster Elite 130 are two options to look at.

Does anyone use the Microsoft USB receiver to play with their wireless Xbox 360 controllers on PC? I have a friend who said a wired controller is better because some games won't work with wireless, is that true?

I already have a 360 wireless controller so it would be a lot cheaper to me to just buy the USB dongle, but if there are compatibility issues I might just get a brand new wired one or a X1 controller with a mini USB cable.

Yes, lots of us do. Never had any issues playing any game with that, its 100% supported in any game that also supports the wired pad.

 

[The Llama]

I'm not saying that Shadow of Mordor stuff is off. But what I'm saying is that they probably didn't put a lot of effort into streamlining the Ultra texture package for a ton of reasons, so it has an abnormally high VRAM usage. Much like Skyrim modded. What I'm saying is that it is not going to be indicative of what future games will require, much like modded Skyrim.

And if a 780 Ti doesn't run Evil Within better than a 970, I'd gladly accept an avatar bet.

Disagree completely. Devs have been held back by the low RAM in the PS360. Things are changing, like it or not.

 

[mkenyon]

Disagree completely. Devs have been held back by the low RAM in the PS360. Things are changing, like it or not.

I don't think "4GB is going to be plenty for 1080p" is mutually exclusive of this concept.

 

[mrklaw]

How is the ViewSonic VX2880ML? Dabs in the UK have it for £299 with the voucher code 'SAVE4K'

 

[phxxBullet]

How big is the chance for FRAPS showing wrong FPS count in games?

Because either it's wrong, or I tricked myself into believing I'm gaming at ~60ish fps, when really it is around 20-30.

Would actually be quite cool, as a jump to real 60fps would be mind blowing to me then. No need for 144hz monitors heh.

 

[The Llama]

I don't think "4GB is going to be plenty for 1080p" is mutually exclusive of this concept.

Fair.

Honestly I think most of the freaking out is because nVidia cheaped out on the VRAM with the 700 series. If they weren't limited to 3GB on their high end cards there, a lot less people would be mad right now.

 

[mkenyon]

PHANTEKS EVOLV FULL REVIEW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Mso3V5SAw

How big is the chance for FRAPS showing wrong FPS count in games?

Because either it's wrong, or I tricked myself into believing I'm gaming at ~60ish fps, when really it is around 20-30.

Would actually be quite cool, as a jump to real 60fps would be mind blowing to me then. No need for 144hz monitors heh.

Frame times breh, can make things weird. FPS is an average of all frames rendered over the last second. You could have a number of frames well above 33.3ms, and as long as the rest are low, it will show an average of 60 FPS (16.7ms)

 

[Shaldome]

Should be covered by warranty still. 3 years is typical.

I don't think failure of a card due to leakage of water cooling equipment is covered by warranty.
Other "options" as return reasons are not compatible with my moral compass.

 

[mkenyon]

I don't think failure of a card due to leakage of water cooling equipment is covered by warranty.
Other "options" as return reasons are not compatible with my moral compass.

Wait wait, AIO water cooling or your own? I missed the original post.

 

[diaspora]

So, I can import the reference EVGA 970 from Amazon.com to Canada for $425, or pay Newegg $431.

 

[garath]

PHANTEKS EVOLV FULL REVIEW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Mso3V5SAw

Frame times breh, can make things weird. FPS is an average of all frames rendered over the last second. You could have a number of frames well above 33.3ms, and as long as the rest are low, it will show an average of 60 FPS (16.7ms)

Oh man. That case is awesome. Only watched half the review so far but I really like what I see.

edit: Hmm.. Do not like the top exhaust and the SSD side bracket is pretty awkward. And as someone that still likes my optical drive, having it in the rear like that is just ludicrous.

 

[industrian]

How is the ViewSonic VX2880ML? Dabs in the UK have it for £299 with the voucher code 'SAVE4K'

According to the Viewsonic site:

Optimum Resolution: 3840x2160 (30Hz)

http://www.viewsonic.com/us/vx2880ml.html

Take from that what you will.

 

[phxxBullet]

PHANTEKS EVOLV FULL REVIEW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Mso3V5SAw

Frame times breh, can make things weird. FPS is an average of all frames rendered over the last second. You could have a number of frames well above 33.3ms, and as long as the rest are low, it will show an average of 60 FPS (16.7ms)

Ah okay, well never cared that much about fps anyways, so I don't know much about that hehe

 

[mrklaw]

PHANTEKS EVOLV FULL REVIEW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Mso3V5SAw

Frame times breh, can make things weird. FPS is an average of all frames rendered over the last second. You could have a number of frames well above 33.3ms, and as long as the rest are low, it will show an average of 60 FPS (16.7ms)

Disappointing review. While I share the concern about limited exhaust, how about they test it to see if their concern is justified? The PWM fan hub is a great addition, but the GPU slots seem very close to the PSU - wouldn't the lower GPU in an SLI setup be starved of airflow?

If you fit an optical drive (I'd want a bluray for rips), then you can only fit a top fan at the front. Would that be ok for exhaust or would it just suck fresh air from the front fan before it could do anything useful?

 

[Shaldome]

Wait wait, AIO water cooling or your own? I missed the original post.

My own. Found that the leak came from one of the fittings on the CPU. Don't know why it suddenly started leaking. Was only a small leak, but I it formed drops after a while which then proceeded to hit the back of the GPU.
I am going to clean the parts when I get my new GPUs next year and redo the tubing while I am at it.

 

[IMACOMPUTA]

Is this just when downloading from steam, or generally when downloading anything larger?
Have you checked if there are any processes hogging RAM and/or CPU?

I haven't done much on it other than download from steam, but yeah.
CPU and RAM usage seem rather normal, but HDD activity is at 100%

I edited my post with more info on my HDD.
It's sata 3.0 Gb/s and only 16mb cache. Is this a huge problem?

Basically I'm wondering if this is just how dual core life is. It's been a while since I've been on a budget CPU.

 

[Jeff Stephen]

Looking for some feedback as to whether it's worth it to spend a little more on an SSD. Will there be noticeable gains if I purchase a Samsung 850 or SanDisk Extreme Pro or should I just stick with the MX100?

 

[mkenyon]

Regarding the EVOLV, I really feel like it's made for the new breed of PC builders. Who, like myself, aren't interested in 3.5" or 5.25" bays.

It reminds me of the NZXT H440, but mATX and built with quality materials.

You could easily have a singe 970 mATX system totally under water, in a tiny aluminum chassis. That's the promised land, IMO.

My own. Found that the leak came from one of the fittings on the CPU. Don't know why it suddenly started leaking. Was only a small leak, but I it formed drops after a while which then proceeded to hit the back of the GPU.
I am going to clean the parts when I get my new GPUs next year and redo the tubing while I am at it.

If you are using 3/8"x5/8", I highly recommend EK's ZMT.

I've done 4 builds with it now. Not even a single leak during testing.

Looking for some feedback as to whether it's worth it to spend a little more on an SSD. Will there be noticeable gains if I purchase a Samsung 850 or SanDisk Extreme Pro or should I just stick with the MX100?

If you have to ask, the answer is probably no. There's a number of specific applications where it would benefit, but they're all very niche.

 

[Shaldome]

Regarding the EVOLV, I really feel like it's made for the new breed of PC builders. Who, like myself, aren't interested in 3.5" or 5.25" bays.

It reminds me of the NZXT H440, but mATX and built with quality materials.

You could easily have a singe 970 mATX system totally under water, in a tiny aluminum chassis. That's the promised land, IMO.

If you are using 3/8"x5/8", I highly recommend EK's ZMT.

I've done 4 builds with it now. Not even a single leak during testing.

If you have to ask, the answer is probably no. There's a number of specific applications where it would benefit, but they're all very niche.

Yes I have 16/10 mm and PrimoChill PrimoFlex tubing. Both 680 blocks, cpu block and fittings were from EK. Build it together about a year ago and everything was fine up until now.
Looking at the EK ZMT it seems that it shares similarity's with the Ford T model concerning the colour choices. Have to think about it, when the time arrives.

 

[Rentahamster]

Is ASUS' Crystal Sound implementation worth it? They use Realtek ALC 1150 like other high end motherboards, but they also mention all their other audio bells and whistles in the product description.

I'm currently shopping around for X99 motherboards and wondering if I should go with the ASUS X99 Deluxe.

 

[Saad]

Third post in thread are my recs, unless you have something very specific. Maybe a Silverstone SG10?

I'm loving the Rosewill Legacy w1-s!

Node 304 and Coolemaster Elite 130 are two options to look at.

I'll look into them. Thanks.

Very good info to know about the PSU for future recommendations. What CPU and GPU are you running?

i5-4670K and GTX760

 

[b0bbyJ03]

Just purchased the EVGA version of the 970 that has the ACX 1.0 cooler (didn't know there were two versions till i started reading more user reviews) and some of the user reviews are kind of starting to scare me. Did anyone else get this version? how is it?

 

[Honey Bunny]

Just finished my build thanks to GAF

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/georgc/saved/BNt9TW

That's a smart looking case. Nice one.

I wish Corsair would release an Air 540 successor already.

 

[Prez]

What can you comfortably fit in a mini itx case anyway? Isn't it incredibly tight if you want to put in an optical drive, SSD and hard drive? Judging from reviews that's already tight in a mini tower. Just wondering for future consideration.

 

[Sanjay]

That's a smart looking case. Nice one.

I wish Corsair would release an Air 540 successor already.

Yeah the NZXT S340 is one sexy case.

 

[mrklaw]

We need more innovation with PC cases. Make one that only has space for one 3.5" HDD and one SSD, and develop an external PSU because that takes up a quarter of the damn case in small builds. What else could you do to save space?

 

[kennah]

We need more innovation with PC cases. Make one that only has space for one 3.5" HDD and one SSD, and develop an external PSU because that takes up a quarter of the damn case in small builds. What else could you do to save space?

My case only has room for two ssds.

 

[Sectorseven]

We need more innovation with PC cases. Make one that only has space for one 3.5" HDD and one SSD, and develop an external PSU because that takes up a quarter of the damn case in small builds. What else could you do to save space?

Could build one dedicated to air cooling. Not designing room for radiators and stuff would save space, I think.

Also, they have those mini style power supplies but they aren't popular for some reason.

 

[LilJoka]

Phanteks is pretty good solution, but i still think my Lian Li does it better overall. The one downside of my PC-V354 is CPU Cooling. If you want Air, it has to be small/downfacing solutions, otherwise 120mm AIO/WCing is needed for serious overclocking.

Also it looks like if you wanted to SLI in the Phanteks you cant since there is no room for the bottom PCIE Slot for a dual slot cooler. Exhaust is poorly done and so is the front IO (although my case has this issue too..). On top of that i can fit 3 HDDs with good cable management.

Phanteks 230 mm x 450 mm x 400 mm (W x H x D) 41.4 Litres
Lian Li 245mm x 320mm x 420mm (W x H x D) 32.92 Litres

 

[Prez]

We need more innovation with PC cases. Make one that only has space for one 3.5" HDD and one SSD, and develop an external PSU because that takes up a quarter of the damn case in small builds. What else could you do to save space?

That's possible with AMD 5350 + ASRock AM1 motherboard which has a 19V DC-input for an external power brick.

I think there should be a decent small 150V PSU though, the ones currently on the market and those built-in in mini ITX cases are all trash.

 

[mkenyon]

Just purchased the EVGA version of the 970 that has the ACX 1.0 cooler (didn't know there were two versions till i started reading more user reviews) and some of the user reviews are kind of starting to scare me. Did anyone else get this version? how is it?

Ignore user reviews.

If you think it is too loud when you get it, there's a BIOS update coming out that basically alters the fan curve. As it is, it is too aggressive.

Phanteks is pretty good solution, but i still think my Lian Li does it better overall. The one downside of my PC-V354 is CPU Cooling. If you want Air, it has to be small/downfacing solutions, otherwise 120mm AIO/WCing is needed for serious overclocking.

Also it looks like if you wanted to SLI in the Phanteks you cant since there is no room for the bottom PCIE Slot for a dual slot cooler. Exhaust is poorly done and so is the front IO (although my case has this issue too..). On top of that i can fit 3 HDDs with good cable management.

Phanteks 230 mm x 450 mm x 400 mm (W x H x D) 41.4 Litres
Lian Li 245mm x 320mm x 420mm (W x H x D) 32.92 Litres

Yeah, but the big thing is the PSU being placed between the motherboard and side panel. That's what has always put me off of the Lian Li ITX and mATX options.

 

[Serandur]

How many times can someone RMA a video card for the same reason concurrently before Newegg start refusing? My gigabyte 970's got a buzzing coil whine issue.