I would like to see more moe characters in anme who are strong and "mature".

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HolyBaikal

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I think one of the problems with the word moe, is that it means different things to different people. Every time I bring up the word, it seems like some people want it to mean the most negative thing possible. While I think that, like anime, moe means many good and bad things. So it's sad to see people be against it.

I'm a little bit afraid to say words like "strong" and "mature". Some people think that "strong" is a bad word for writing good female characters, and that "releatable" or "well characterized" or things like that, are better. And mature... well, a lot of things that people consider mature I think are overrated and not very positive qualities for all human beings.

Like being preoccupied with economic status and achievements at work and things like that. Being worried about not being married or in a relationship or not "being accomplished" or having a respected job, doesn't seem very mature to me. Even though many people seem to think it is a mature sign of adulthood.

But... it's complicated. And I couldn't think of many better words offhand.

What I mean is that I think more women and female characters in anime should be able to take care of themselves better. Humans are interdependent, but I feel like too many female characters emotionally rely on a male main protagonist emotionally or in other ways. I would like to see more wisdom and things like that from moe characters. Rather than wisdom being given to them by a male main character.

Female characters should be able to be just as wise and inspirational as male characters. Also, while I don't think archetypes are bad, Western media is filled with archetypes, but archetypes can be only one aspect of a character. Having emotional depth in most shows for more female characters would be nice. Especially if they're not silly comedy anime where character depth isn't always as important.

What do you think? What are some moe characters, and what do you think some of their flaws are that could be improved?
 
is this the kind of moe you were looking for?
moe+k+on+simpsons+cross+over+funny.jpg

Simpsons is always relevant.
Sorry just having a little fun here.
 
I'm sorry everyone. I was trying to have a nuanced discussion about characterization. I didn't realize I would be bothering people by making this thread. ;_;

I really like talking about anime and moe since I'm a fan of them and they make me happy.
I thought maybe if I talked about something that a lot of people don't like about moe, and how to improve it. Things might go a little better...
 
You're watching the equivalent of junk food.

You will find depth of character and less cardboard cutout characters anywhere else but here.

Try a steakhouse once and a while (The short stories of Hemmingway), or a Fish Joint (HMS Surprise - Patrick Obrien), or even an old school dinner theater (Citizen Cane). Perhaps you need something quick. I recommend a local grill with to go orders (The wire season 1, Deadwood). If you absolutely need a sugar fix, try an artisanal ice cream (Black Sad Graphic Novels).
 
If a character is moe, she can't be mature. In some other thread, I pointed to some links where they try to define "moe".

"A common definition is that Moe is the ability of a character to instill in the audience an irrational desire to adore them, hug them, protect them, comfort them, etc. To evoke a sort of Big Brother Instinct, in men and women. "

Protecting a mature character, hugging them...that wouldn't work. And it's pretty much the most common characteristic.

God Dayumm said:
We need less moe. It is not aesthetically pleasing design
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Most definitely. Would love some more main characters like the one from Seirei no Moribito.
 
Lucumo said:
If a character is moe, she can't be mature. In some other thread, I pointed to some links where they try to define "moe".

"A common definition is that Moe is the ability of a character to instill in the audience an irrational desire to adore them, hug them, protect them, comfort them, etc. To evoke a sort of Big Brother Instinct, in men and women. "

Protecting a mature character, hugging them...that wouldn't work. And it's pretty much the most common characteristic.
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yep.

"strong, mature" moe characters are antithetical to the entire movement.
 
What you describe goes against most of the things that make something moe in the first place.
 
HolyBaikal said:
What I mean is that I think more women and female characters in anime should be able to take care of themselves better. Humans are interdependent, but I feel like too many female characters emotionally rely on a male main protagonist emotionally or in other ways. I would like to see more wisdom and things like that from moe characters. Rather than wisdom being given to them by a male main character.

Female characters should be able to be just as wise and inspirational as male characters. Also, while I don't think archetypes are bad, Western media is filled with archetypes, but archetypes can be only one aspect of a character. Having emotional depth in most shows for more female characters would be nice. Especially if they're not silly comedy anime where character depth isn't always as important.
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Well, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic actually does fit these requirements, though I'm not sure if bringing that up in a moe thread will cause an explosion.
 
Lucumo said:

Protecting a mature character, hugging them...that wouldn't work. And it's pretty much the most common characteristic.
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If watching any amount of anime has taught me anything, the line spoken by the mature character would be "Ara Ara" I really need a new hobby
 
Strong and mature character traits usually stand in direct contrast to moe traits. I'm not sure if you thought this topic through very much.


HolyBaikal said:
I'm sorry everyone. I was trying to have a nuanced discussion about characterization. I didn't realize I would be bothering people by making this thread. ;_;

I really like talking about anime and moe since I'm a fan of them and they make me happy.
I thought maybe if I talked about something that a lot of people don't like about moe, and how to improve it. Things might go a little better...
Click to expand...

Niches are a good thing. That way everybody has something they can enjoy. That's better than trying to create this sludge of things that appeal to everybody but don't really please anyone.
 
Lucumo said:
If a character is moe, she can't be mature.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, I disagree. I think moe characters can be very mature.

But I guess the word moe means different things to different people.

I don't think that moe necessarily means making people want to protect them, either. And I think that portraying women as someone who needs protecting is a negative thing. Kind of like the Damsel in Distress trope in video games.
 
HolyBaikal said:
Hmmm, I disagree. I think moe characters can be very mature.

But I guess the word moe means different things to different people.

I don't think that moe necessarily means making people want to protect them, either. And I think that portraying women as someone who needs protecting is a negative thing. Kind of like the Damsel in Distress trope in video games.
Click to expand...

I thought Moe just meant cute and child like?
 
Goliath said:
I thought Moe just meant cute and child like?
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Moe means a lot of things and it's changing all the time.

To me, moe means endearing or adorable. And endearing and adorable people are often cute and kind.
Moe is a kind of adoration where parts of personality that are often considered feminine are often adored and maybe even idealized.

Usually people call feminine things moe, rather than masculine. So while I guess you could feel moe for a really masculine person.
Most people who use the word moe are finding femininity to be wonderful traits of someone's personality.

Moe has become kind of an appreciation of femininity. I like moe because I appreciate kindness and femininity.
 
I always liked the definition "moe is when your heart gets a boner".

That been said, moe needs to die in the eternal fires. Has it really gotten that bad? only anime I've watched in the past two years have been Jojo, Space Dandy, and Terror in Resonance
 
I was so scared right before I posted this thread. I think there was probably a good reason for that...

I think maybe I made a mistake...
 
ghostjoke said:
I always liked the definition "moe is when your heart gets a boner".

That been said, moe needs to die in the eternal fires. Has it really gotten that bad? only anime I've watched in the past two years have been Jojo, Space Dandy, and Terror in Resonance
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Sort of yeah. The moe stuff kinda ruins a lot of anime for me. There is still a lot of good shows though with Parasyte, Space Brothers and HxH being good examples.
 
Not sure if it was intended or not, but doesnt that ME!ME!ME! video NSFW kinda poke fun at moe culture (or otaku culture) ?
 
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