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[Unknown?]

No one is suggesting the consumer keep them around. Just not celebrate it's death. Reading is not hard. Do i want the consumer to keep amd around in high end gpu's? No. Not if they aren't going to comptete there. Would i rather celebrate them doing poorly in crclejerk fashion or hope the actually nut up and compete? Nut up and compete. No matter how badly you want what i said to be about bailing them out, it isnt.

I celebrate this because they sucked ass. Not to mention Microsoft has a long history of embrace and extinguish and they even admitted that to be their goal in leaked emails.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

You don't seem to understand, we are not celebrating failure; we are celebrating punishment for failure. For 2 gaming generations too long the Xbox was kept alive with outside money without merit. We are now celebrating something that was delayed far too long; the destruction of bad company practices.

Do you know why the "viable competition" had been missing? Not because Xbox and Spencer had been walking failures. But because Xbox and Spencer had been GETTING AWAY with being walking failures. We are celebrating the power of the market finally removing the zombified corpse of the Xbox Division, so that others like Amazon can take their place and bring fresh competition.

Did you think competition is about keeping the loser around indefinitely? Do you really believe that? You need to go pick up a Wikipedia article on what "market competition" meant. And always we should celebrate when losers go away, that is how we get new blood.

Exactly

Apart from Xbox Live back in 2003 they’ve introduced nothing positive to gaming.

Their two biggest “first party” games weren’t even developed by Microsoft.

Halo by Bungie, which was well into development on Mac before being acquired by Microsoft. Since Bungie left the series has died.

Gears by Epic, as above the series has declined once it was left to Microsoft to develop.

For most gamers Xbox won’t be missed.

 

[Felessan]

They tried to compete with Steam and failed (with most people failing to notice they even tried). It may be easier to just have their own Console Platform.

No tech, no ecosystem, no games
Yeah, for sure they can try to be a new layer in consoles, it'll fail faster than Ouya did

People just can’t admit that MS tried to do something and failed. They never “lose”. It’s always just the next step of their master plan.

Try, fail and lose market share is a definition of "lose"

 

[Neofire]

Exactly

Apart from Xbox Live back in 2003 they’ve introduced nothing positive to gaming.

Their two biggest “first party” games weren’t even developed by Microsoft.

Halo by Bungie, which was well into development on Mac before being acquired by Microsoft. Since Bungie left the series has died.

Gears by Epic, as above the series has declined once it was left to Microsoft to develop.

For most gamers Xbox won’t be missed.

While I agree with everything you said, competition is still best for the industry and Microsoft basically leaving the fold is going to hurt all gamers in the long run. Granted, Xbox leaders have been dropping the ball for the past two console generations, their presence still let Sony know not to fuck up too much.

 

[BbMajor7th]

People just can’t admit that MS tried to do something and failed. They never “lose”. It’s always just the next step of their master plan.

I mean, I was reading just the other day that the console war was over and nobody had won...

 

[onQ123]

It certainly isn't anti consumer to not have those things.

It is when every other device has these features & devs can't make multiplatform games that rely on the features.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

You don't seem to understand, we are not celebrating failure; we are celebrating punishment for failure. For 2 gaming generations too long the Xbox was kept alive with outside money without merit. We are now celebrating something that was delayed far too long; the destruction of bad company practices.

Do you know why the "viable competition" had been missing? Not because Xbox and Spencer had been walking failures. But because Xbox and Spencer had been GETTING AWAY with being walking failures. We are celebrating the power of the market finally removing the zombified corpse of the Xbox Division, so that others like Amazon can take their place and bring fresh competition.

Did you think competition is about keeping the loser around indefinitely? Do you really believe that? You need to go pick up a Wikipedia article on what "market competition" meant. And always we should celebrate when losers go away, that is how we get new blood.

I never once mentioned anything about keeping the loser around. Tf?

 

[Kamina]

 

[clem84]

They spent 20 years building the bran and then gave up on it, sabotaged it, by making their exclusives available everywhere.

 

[Sooner]

They spent 20 years building the bran and then gave up on it

Are we talking about Microsoft or Kelloggs?

 

[nikos]

PS5:1

 

[ZehDon]

Exactly

Apart from Xbox Live back in 2003 they’ve introduced nothing positive to gaming.

Their two biggest “first party” games weren’t even developed by Microsoft.

Halo by Bungie, which was well into development on Mac before being acquired by Microsoft. Since Bungie left the series has died.

Gears by Epic, as above the series has declined once it was left to Microsoft to develop.

For most gamers Xbox won’t be missed.

I don't agree with the bolded; Microsoft have innovated in a lot of ways in the gaming space that have reverberated throughout the industry, and I'd argue the reason for their dwindling success is that they stopped doing it.

Microsoft brought fragment shaders to the console realm with the OG Xbox, which helped standardise this technology much faster. Back in the dark days of every vendor having their own bespoke implementation of this and that, that kind of north star standard was super helpful. This push also helped make multiplatform development between console and PC more approachable, which continues to this day, and has been a massive win for everyone.
Microsoft brought hard drives as standard to the space, which had huge benefits to both the player and the developer, despite costing them more to manufacture. I don't miss memory cards at all.
Microsoft helped foster the birth of the indie scene with Xbox Live Arcade, with the poster child for that initial wave being Braid. With initiatives like XNA, they really tried to help indies get their foot in the door of the console space, which was a central pillar in the rise to the indie scene as we know it today.
Microsoft created achievements, which can be seen as both good and bad, but the concept didn't exist at a platform level until they realised it was a way to help foster deeper engagement on a per-title basis, helping players get more out of their games, and keep people playing on their platform longer.
Microsoft's cross-platform initiatives - enhanced backwards compatibility and Smart Delivery - are the gold standard against which everyone else is measured. They've shown there's good business is keeping older titles around longer, and shown that there's no reason I shouldn't be able to play the "Next Gen version" of any given game using the disc from the prior generation.

In terms of their studios innovating on a per-game basis, that's a wider problem, but I'd say Microsoft at a platform level has done many good things for gaming, and the gaming space will be worse off once they transition into a third party publisher and leave Sony alone on its throne.

 

[SpokkX]

Just wait until GTA 6 runs noticeably better on the Playstation, that's going to be the true nail in the coffin

Pretty much this. If xbox is a bad place for gta6 - the console dies this year

To be fair it will be dead next year anyway

Xbox is a controller for me these days - and I expect that is what xbox will mean in the future hardware wise. Best controller though

 

[EDMIX]

It's just the constant sony fan circle jerking. It's unfortunate, because losing a competitor in the industry is going to be absolutely terrible for the consumer. Example: look at Nvidia now with AMD.

...yea...I don't know about all that now.


MS had many opportunities to allow their teams to have free creative control and still forced them to keep doing the same things over and over

We've seen Halo flop
We've seen Gears flop

Yet we've seen Destiny go on to break ever record imaginable for Bungie...imagine if MS just let that fucking team MAKE THAT GAME at MS instead of forcing them to do the same thing over and over to the point of Bungie leaving?

MS would have had a record breaking Destiny, Marathon on the way
that Black Tusk AAA FPS could have been something wildly different then Gears

MS has themselves to blame for this shit, they seeked to try to create evergreen IP, that simply didn't resonate like a Mario or God Of War and continued to just fail over and over as if suddenly someone was going to care about that IP after 8 games or something, the teams are tried, they seem like they either don't care or are saving their best ideas for when they LEAVE MS or something. MS has a set thing they want from those teams and in many of our opinions, their choice to go about business this way to many of us isn't really a "competitor" to Sony

Sony in this market literally has no competitor based on the very thing they are doing. MS can blame themselves for that.

 

[AJUMP23]

Switch 2 incoming to wreck it up

 

[XXL]

PS5:1

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I never once mentioned anything about keeping the loser around. Tf?

Then why are you acting like we are suppose to be sad that the trash is taken out? Ding Dong the Witch is dead. What do you expect us to do, give Microsoft pity money?

 

[Brigandier]

This is an Xbox:

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

...yea...I don't know about all that now.


MS had many opportunities to allow their teams to have free creative control and still forced them to keep doing the same things over and over

We've seen Halo flop
We've seen Gears flop

Yet we've seen Destiny go on to break ever record imaginable for Bungie...imagine if MS just let that fucking team MAKE THAT GAME at MS instead of forcing them to do the same thing over and over to the point of Bungie leaving?

MS would have had a record breaking Destiny, Marathon on the way
that Black Tusk AAA FPS could have been something wildly different then Gears

MS has themselves to blame for this shit, they seeked to try to create evergreen IP, that simply didn't resonate like a Mario or God Of War and continued to just fail over and over as if suddenly someone was going to care about that IP after 8 games or something, the teams are tried, they seem like they either don't care or are saving their best ideas for when they LEAVE MS or something. MS has a set thing they want from those teams and in many of our opinions, their choice to go about business this way to many of us isn't really a "competitor" to Sony

Sony in this market literally has no competitor based on the very thing they are doing. MS can blame themselves for that.

I totally agree that Microsoft shit the bed. I'd rather see them do well and be a competitor than celebrate their failures.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

Then why are you acting like we are suppose to be sad that the trash is taken out? Ding Dong the Witch is dead. What do you expect us to do, give Microsoft pity money?

I never acted like anyone should be sad. I just think it's in poor taste to celebrate the death of a competitor, knowing the future is probably worse in a Sony dominated market. The gpu market is not a great place right now with nvidia not having competition in sight.

 

[Sony]

Doesn't surprise me in the least. There is no Xbox isles to he found in most hardware stores in western Europe. They have up.

 

[EDMIX]

I'd rather see them do well and be a competitor than celebrate their failures.

I would too, but they ruined a lot of what could have had them do well all on their own.

If MS can't be true competition for Sony in their current state, it makes sense for them to just be a 3rd party publisher and move on, for all of us at this point. Free the market up for another company that might provide real competition.

 

[IDKFA]

I never acted like anyone should be sad. I just think it's in poor taste to celebrate the death of a competitor, knowing the future is probably worse in a Sony dominated market. The gpu market is not a great place right now with nvidia not having competition in sight.

Microsoft are choosing this path. It's more profitable for them than trying to make their hardware business a success.

This doesn't mean that Sony will have a monopoly. Sony sill have plenty of competitors such as Nintendo, Valve, PC/Laptops and anything else that plays video games.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I never acted like anyone should be sad. I just think it's in poor taste to celebrate the death of a competitor, knowing the future is probably worse in a Sony dominated market. The gpu market is not a great place right now with nvidia not having competition in sight.

You are STILL in denial and insisting that Xbox is better off kept on life support indefinitely.

You still think Xbox is competition and want to keep them.

i am telling you Arragant Sony is already here for years and that Xbox is delaying viable competition showing up, by hanging around taking up space like a decomposing beached whale.

We NEED to celebrate deserving deaths so that new life can be born. Would you want to live in a world where N-Gage, Atari Jaguar and Apple Pippin are still around?

For someone who insist in their belief in "Competition", you seem to literally have no idea what that MEANT. You get competition by removing failures. You seem to believe that world is better if Xbox can stay around, and I am telling you right now you are wrong. Failures fail. And you replace them with something better. If you don't believe that, you don't want competition and instead want Zombie companies that lose money and make bad products.

 

[Hudo]

Congratulations to all Sony shareholders.

 

[bitbydeath]

knowing the future is probably worse in a Sony dominated market.

You must be young enough to have missed the PS1 and PS2 days. Sony without Microsoft was some pretty damn good years.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Congratulations to all Sony shareholders.

Sony right now has Xbox's corpse as a literal roadblock to stop anyone else taking a crack. So yes, if Xbox keeps insisting they are still alive, then Sony would keep winning.

 

[Sooner]

Sony right now has Xbox's corpse as a literal roadblock to stop anyone else taking a crack. So yes, if Xbox keeps insisting they are still alive, then Sony would keep winning.

I don't know who else can compete with Sony at this point. Today's console gaming business takes both a crap ton of money and a thorough understanding of the industry.

That eliminates Sega and Google. Sega is not big enough for today's market and Google proved they don't understand the industry at all. Nintendo could go head to head with Sony, but why would they? They're both better off focusing on their niche.

 

[Bernoulli]

Xbox is outselling Xbox 5:1

 

[azertydu91]

Doesn't surprise me in the least. There is no Xbox isles to he found in most hardware stores in western Europe. They have up.

 

[XXL]

Drama - PS5 is outselling Xbox Series Consoles at a rate of about 4 to 1 the last 15 months

Since we got new information for LTD sales data I decide to do so math and extract the recent sales ratio. As of June 2024 the PS5 is at 61.3M consoles and Xbox is at 28.3M consoles. Here is the thread with this info...

www.neogaf.com

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

As a veteran of the Console Wars, I'm glad all my years of shit posting was worth it. For my dutiful service to Sony's shareholders I'm sure I will be rewarded.

 

[m14]

Exactly

Apart from Xbox Live back in 2003 they’ve introduced nothing positive to gaming.

Their two biggest “first party” games weren’t even developed by Microsoft.

Halo by Bungie, which was well into development on Mac before being acquired by Microsoft. Since Bungie left the series has died.

Gears by Epic, as above the series has declined once it was left to Microsoft to develop.

For most gamers Xbox won’t be missed.

RG, that is a wild claim to make.
Aside from the fact that it took Sony two generations to catch up in terms of online, here's just a few of Xbox's other contributions to console gaming:

XBLA store. Which gave a major platform to smaller, independent studios.
Downloadable DLC.
Achievements / Trophies.
The first console to have an x86 processor as standard.
Developer friendly hardware and software.
The first console with a built in hard drive.
The first to make wireless controllers standard. (Although yes the WaveBird was released earlier.)
The 360 controller was a heavy influence on Sony's DS4.
The Series S was the first console with a 4K Blu-ray drive, an embarrassing fact for Sony.

As for games- Microsoft Flight Sim and Age of Empires predate the Xbox. Halo was a revolution for console fps and paved the way for the success of COD.

All in all, a Sony fan claiming that Xbox brought nothing to the gaming space, while simultaneously enjoying the many benefits that were introduced by and / or standardised by Microsoft, should definitely be filed in the "What did the Romans ever do for us?" category.
PlayStation is in the position they are today in part because of the competition that Xbox has provided over the years and your PS5 would be a significantly less capable machine if Xbox never existed.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

RG, that is a wild claim to make.
Aside from the fact that it took Sony two generations to catch up in terms of online, here's just a few of Xbox's other contributions to console gaming:

XBLA store. Which gave a major platform to smaller, independent studios.
Downloadable DLC.
Achievements / Trophies.
The first console to have an x86 processor as standard.
Developer friendly hardware and software.
The first console with a built in hard drive.
The first to make wireless controllers standard. (Although yes the WaveBird was released earlier.)
The 360 controller was a heavy influence on Sony's DS4.
The Series S was the first console with a 4K Blu-ray drive, an embarrassing fact for Sony.

As for games- Microsoft Flight Sim and Age of Empires predate the Xbox. Halo was a revolution for console fps and paved the way for the success of COD.

All in all, a Sony fan claiming that Xbox brought nothing to the gaming space, while simultaneously enjoying the many benefits that were introduced by and / or standardised by Microsoft, should definitely be filed in the "What did the Romans ever do for us?" category.
PlayStation is in the position they are today in part because of the competition that Xbox has provided over the years and your PS5 would be a significantly less capable machine if Xbox never existed.

You make those out to be good things.

DLC is one of the single worst things to happen to gaming.

But that’s why you like Xbox and most people don’t, those things appeal to you, but not us.

 

[Mobilemofo]

Ms will be back..in 2027 with their final console. I, for one, am looking forward to it.

Won't be buying it, but I'll certainly enjoy the pre purchase hype and bullshit.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Ms will be back..in 2027 with their final console. I, for one, am looking forward to it.

Won't be buying it, but I'll certainly hit the pre purchase hype and bullshit.

You’re getting a Windows PC that plays Windows PC games with an Xbox logo slapped on the front.

Xbots who never bought a gaming PC in their life will tell us why this is the greatest thing ever.

 

[Viruz]

 

[m14]

You make those out to be good things.

But that’s why you like Xbox and most people don’t, those things appeal to you, but not us.

Presumably that's why Sony followed Microsoft's lead by implementing all of them.

 

[Kvally]

Ms will be back..in 2027 with their final console. I, for one, am looking forward to it.

Won't be buying it, but I'll certainly enjoy the pre purchase hype and bullshit.

I will continue to buy and play all future consoles from PS and Xbox. At least as long as games are native downloads. If they go all streaming some day, I am out. More time for me to golf.

 

[Mobilemofo]

I will continue to buy and play all future consoles from PS and Xbox. At least as long as games are native downloads. If they go all streaming some day, I am out. More time for me to golf.

Each to their own my friend.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Presumably that's why Sony followed Microsoft's lead by implementing all of them.

Y'all clearly need to freshen up on history. It started with neither PlayStation or Xbox. Expansions (which is what they were originally called) began on PC. They only gained traction (becoming DLC) after Oblivion.

 

[m14]

Y'all clearly need to freshen up on history. It started with neither PlayStation or Xbox. Expansions (which is what they were originally called) began on PC. They only gained traction (becoming DLC) after Oblivion.

Aside from the fact that it took Sony two generations to catch up in terms of online, here's just a few of Xbox's other contributions to console gaming:

 

[HeWhoWalks]

M m14

The Dreamcast/PS2/Xbox era basically came into that around the same time. It was an industry effort, not a feature pioneered by (nor exclusively for) Xbox.

 

[Zacfoldor]

As a veteran of the Console Wars, I'm glad all my years of shit posting was worth it. For my dutiful service to Sony's shareholders I'm sure I will be rewarded.

Service is its own reward ingrate. Now join me in mocking Sony Enemy-Box.

 

[m14]

M m14

The Dreamcast/PS2/Xbox era basically came into that around the same time. It was an industry effort, not a feature pioneered by (nor exclusively for) Xbox.

That's technically true, but compared to how limited the offerings were on the other consoles, Xbox with a build in hard drive and commitment to online clearly did it best.

The claim that Xbox "brought nothing positive to gaming barring Xbox live" is an obviously ludicrous one only trotted out by the most virulent Sony devotees, such as RetroGamingUK and Mibu no ookami And yet you somehow think other people need to "freshen up" on their history.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

That's technically true, but compared to how limited the offerings were on the other consoles, Xbox with a build in hard drive and commitment to online clearly did it best.

The claim that Xbox "brought nothing positive to gaming barring Xbox live" is an obviously ludicrous one only trotted out by the most virulent Sony devotees, such as RetroGamingUK and Mibu no ookami And yet you somehow think other people need to "freshen up" on their history.

I mean, one could say that while you highlight the contributions of Xbox, you ignore (or eliminate) those of PlayStation. It's equally bad.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

XBLA store. Which gave a major platform to smaller, independent studios.

PlayStation's online store was up before XBLA.

Downloadable DLC.

You admit others did it first, but still want to credit Microsoft, which is quite telling.

The first console to have an x86 processor as standard.

Yeah, not sure that's the achievement you think it is. And the Wonderswan used x86 before Xbox did. I know you caveated that with console and I realize you did that on purpose.

Developer friendly hardware and software.

This is all relative.

The first console with a built in hard drive.

Again, you caveat this with "built in" because you know it was already an option before that. Sony didn't include the hard drive with the PS2 and as a result was able to sell the PS2 at a considerably lower price, becoming the best selling console of all time while the Xbox sold less than 30 million units.

The first to make wireless controllers standard. (Although yes the WaveBird was released earlier.)

LOL... more caveats...

The 360 controller was a heavy influence on Sony's DS4.

...? How do you figure?

The Series S was the first console with a 4K Blu-ray drive, an embarrassing fact for Sony.

First, I think you mean the Xbox One S and as much as I think the PS4 Pro should have had a 4K bluray player, how is that embarrassing for Sony when they opted not to include it? Again, one device sold significantly better than the other.

 

[Sooner]

The 360 controller was a heavy influence on Sony's DS4.

What? In what way?

You know what was a heavy influence on the DS4? The DS3, which was heavily influenced by the DS2, which was based on the DS1, which existed before Xbox.

Sony PS1's DS1 was the first console controller with dual analog sticks and both trigger and regular top buttons, a design that's been copied by almost every major console designer since, including Xbox.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

What? In what way?

You know what was a heavy influence on the DS4? The DS3, which was heavily influenced by the DS2, which was based on the DS1, which existed before Xbox.

Sony PS1's DS1 was the first console controller with dual analog sticks and both trigger and regular top buttons, a design that's been copied by almost every major console designer since, including Xbox.

Let's be honest Sony made Ds4 R2 and L2 like triggers because of the 360.

I hated this change. R1 andL1 are better and more responsive for aiming and shooting

 

[m14]

PlayStation's online store was up before XBLA.

It might have predated it, but with little relevance compared to XBLA.

You admit others did it first, but still want to credit Microsoft, which is quite telling.

They did more to popularise DLC for consoles than anyone else. It certainly wasn't Sony or Nintendo.

Yeah, not sure that's the achievement you think it is. And the Wonderswan used x86 before Xbox did. I know you caveated that with console and I realize you did that on purpose.

"Not an achievement" but Sony themselves decided to go with x86 over a decade after Xbox did. MS were far ahead of the game in choosing an x86 processor.

This is all relative.

It really isn't. One of the unquestionable good things about Xbox was that it was designed as a platform to put the needs of developers first. I'm sure you're aware of how little developers enjoyed working with the PS3 for example.

Again, you caveat this with "built in" because you know it was already an option before that. Sony didn't include the hard drive with the PS2 and as a result was able to sell the PS2 at a considerably lower price, becoming the best selling console of all time while the Xbox sold less than 30 million units.

The PS2 hard drive was an accessory that not many games actually supported. MS were the first to provide a hard drive as standard, something which Sony again later copied. And yes, MS paid for it. They couldn't get much reduction in the cost of the drive as time went on.
Of course naturally all you want to talk about is sales, sales, sales but that's not the topic being discussed here.

LOL... more caveats...

I was being fair in acknowledging the WaveBird while also acknowledging that Xbox were the first to popularise wireless controllers.

...? How do you figure?

They literally admitted to making a prototype controller with an Xbox layout, which shows how much they were being influenced by that design at the time:

Not all of the initial concepts thrown around were completely original — you could even argue that the touch-panels idea that Aoki mentioned was heavily influenced by Nintendo’s Wii U GamePad or Apple’s iPad. But that wasn’t unusual for Sony to take a look at what on the market was working for consumers. Heck, the designers even looked to the Xbox 360 controller for inspiration.

“For the analog sticks,” said Aoki, “we did test having the analog sticks on top, since the Xbox has the left side on top [above the D-pad]. Especially from the shooter teams — we got feedback that that’s what they wanted. They knew that consumers liked the 360 for shooters.”

The PlayStation 4 controller: The weird stuff that could’ve been (part 1, exclusive)

An exclusive look at every detail on the PlayStation 4 controller. In part one, we look at the sometimes weird options Sony didn't pick for the DualShock 4.

venturebeat.com

While they kept the traditional PS stick placements, the bulkier feel of the controller, the triggers and the concave sticks are obvious evidence of an Xbox influence.

First, I think you mean the Xbox One S and as much as I think the PS4 Pro should have had a 4K bluray player, how is that embarrassing for Sony when they opted not to include it? Again, one device sold significantly better than the other.

The standard Xbox introduced a 4k Blu-ray drive, which the PS4 Pro didn't have. The so called premium device didn't have it. And even worse, Sony are supposed to be the custodians of Blu-ray technology.