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[Lord Error]

If 4k isn't common by 2020 then I don't know what to think.

What does it matter? Are you going to sit a foot away from the TV? Or have a twenty foot big screen? What do you need 4K resolution for, when in 1080p with some AA you already can't discern any pixels from a normal viewing distance. I wish by then progress would focus more towards high quality realistic rendering and possibly holography rather than needlessly high resolutions.

& keep in mind that this is nothing like the same specs being in a PC because the devs can code for this set up & take advantage of having a GPU working close with the CPU in the APU.

That's a good point. It's amazing to read some of the optimizations done to make things run so fast on console hardware that would be completely impossible to do on same hardware on PC. Still, even with that in mind, it's a pretty disappointing hardware, even if they could make things render 2x faster on it than on equal PC.

 

[Corky]

What does it matter? Are you going to sit a foot away from the TV? Or have a twenty foot big screen? What do you need 4K resolution for, when in 1080p with some AA you already can't discern any pixels from a normal viewing distance. I wish by then progress would focus more towards high quality realistic rendering and possibly holography rather than needlessly high resolutions.

"4K" (QFHD) is ~4 times the resolution of 1080p, if you genuinely think you won't be able to tell a difference between those two on a 50"-60" tv from a "normal" viewing distance then I don't know what to tell you. Protip : 2xAA doesn't magically turn 1080p to "four times" the image quality.

 

[Indyana]

APu by itself is more powerful than the rumor wiiu gpu.

Why would you compare the PS4 APU with the Wii U GPU? That would be like comparing PS3 Cell with 360 Xenos.

 

[Lord Error]

"4K" (QFHD) is ~4 times the resolution of 1080p, if you genuinely think you won't be able to tell a difference between those two on a 50"-60" tv from a "normal" viewing distance then I don't know what to tell you. Protip : 2xAA doesn't magically turn 1080p to "four times" the image quality.

Play something like PixelJunk Shooter (1080p with good AA) and tell me you can see any pixels on there unless you sit a foot a away from the TV. 4K is so pointless for video and games that I wouldn't believe anyone would want to waste a single processing cycle to get there, much less what would really be needed, and that is insane increase in filtrate, video memory and everything else.

 

[Corky]

Play something like PixelJunk Shooter (1080p with good AA) and tell me you can see any pixels on there unless you sit a foot a away from the TV..

lol

Amazing example mate.

 

[H_Prestige]

"4K" (QFHD) is ~4 times the resolution of 1080p, if you genuinely think you won't be able to tell a difference between those two on a 50"-60" tv from a "normal" viewing distance then I don't know what to tell you. Protip : 2xAA doesn't magically turn 1080p to "four times" the image quality.

Under those conditions, you can only begin to see the difference between 720p and 1080p. 4K is utterly pointless.

 

[Lord Error]

lol

Amazing example mate.

Go try it. Also try playing PC version of Trine 2 @1080p on same TV, with AA on 2XAA+FXAA or whatver else is in-game options maximum (it runs at 60FPS even on my mid range PC under those conditions) If you seriously can discern pixels and aliasing in those two games when you sit 2-3 meters away from a 50" TV you have super-vision, because I really can't.

 

[onQ123]

Why would you compare the PS4 APU with the Wii U GPU? That would be like comparing PS3 Cell with 360 Xenos.

well the APU is a CPU & GPU & the WiiU has a CPU & GPU so he can compare them why can't he?


how does the GPU in the APU compare to the PS3/Xbox 360 GPU's? if the WiiU is rumored to be about the same as the PS3 & 360 & if the GPU in the APU is more powerful, then there is nothing wrong with what he said. besides the fact that we only have rumors to go by.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

lol

Amazing example mate.

Bahahahahahaha!

They're taunting you Corky! They know your weakness!

You're always sitting too close to your screen.

 

[Woo-Fu]

People expecting 4K don't really understand how the consumer electronics industry works.

 

[onQ123]

People expecting 4K don't really understand how the consumer electronics industry works.

people not expecting 4K being used as a buzz word when the PS4 comes out don't understand how Sony works

 

[Corky]

People expecting 4K don't really understand how the consumer electronics industry works.

I'm not expecting it, rather perplexed at why people would rather have features removed than added.

If they could technically, and financially viably, have 4k support for the platform ( just like the current hd twins support 1080p, considering 99% of the game run 720p or lower ). What's the problem with the platform being designed in such a way that it supports higher resolutions, regardless if almost the entire platform's library runs at 1080p or lower?

The xbox supported 720p during an era where most people were still on fat crts. Did all the games run at 720p? No. Did the majority of the consumers 720p sets at its release? Most likely no. Did it hurt the platform in any way shape or form ? No.

 

[ElFly]

The equivalent resolution for movies goes beyond 1080p, so I expect at least another display upgrade and buying all the movie classics again.

Now, I don't really know if the PS4 will be able to support 4K. Probably just like the PS3 can support 1080p. Only for some games.

 

[Confiture]

Now, I don't really know if the PS4 will be able to support 4K. Probably just like the PS3 can support 1080p. Only for some games.

Those 4k games will look glorious powered by a 6670!

 

[Bear]

The xbox supported 720p during an era where most people were still on fat crts. Did all the games run at 720p? No. Did the majority of the consumers 720p sets at its release? Most likely no. Did it hurt the platform in any way shape or form ? No.

That's very different. The XBox was based on PC parts (GPU was a modified Nvidia card) that were more than able to run games at that resolution. There was much added cost to support 720p.

None of the rumoured graphics cards next gen support 4K resolution or even come close to running anything playable on it (that doesn't look terrible). It would hurt if they invested much more in a GPU that supports a technology almost nobody will use. There is no way it can happen next gen.

 

[Maxrunner]

Those 4k games will look glorious powered by a 6670!

weak PS4 confirmed...

 

[Theonik]

If 4k isn't common by 2020 then I don't know what to think.

What would you consider common?

 

[Maxrunner]

people not expecting 4K being used as a buzz word when the PS4 comes out don't understand how Sony works

if by buzz you mean going out of business then yep you're right....

 

[onQ123]

Those 4k games will look glorious powered by a 6670!

well in these days where games like Angry Birds , Draw Something , Words with Friends & so on are so popular there should be plenty of games that can take advantage of the 4K resolution.

 

[KageMaru]

well in these days where games like Angry Birds , Draw Something , Words with Friends & so on are so popular there should be plenty of games that can take advantage of the 4K resolution.

We won't see games running at 4K next gen, period.

I can see 4K support, as in upscaling and video support, but we won't have games natively rendered at that resolution.

 

[onQ123]

if by buzz you mean going out of business then yep you're right....

The GPU can support 4K so I'm not sure why having 4K support is going to make Sony go out of business. care to explain why 4K support is going to make them go out of business?

 

[Maxrunner]

The GPU can support 4K so I'm not sure why having 4K support is going to make Sony go out of business. care to explain why 4K support is going to make them go out of business?

expensive hardware???or do you think rendering 4k games is going to be cheap?

 

[onQ123]

We won't see games running at 4K next gen, period.

I can see 4K support, as in upscaling and video support, but we won't have games natively rendered at that resolution.

why not? if the ipad 3 can run at 1536 x 2048 what make you think a next gen console can't run these same type of games that are on PSN\XBLA \Tablets & Smartphones at 4K.

 

[onQ123]

expensive hardware???or do you think rendering 4k games is going to be cheap?

so you don't think 2 GPU's working together can run PSN games at 4K?

 

[StevieP]

Could these rumours simply not just be deliberate misinformation campaigns by Sony/MS to try and out the other off, so to speak? Release "low" specs and when PS4 (or 720) is massively more powerful than the other, job done.

Or is that a little naive of me?

/tinfoilhat

After a nights rest, I was thinking, even if they got simulation of the Cell, they'd still have to emulate the RSX... nVidia and AMD aren't quite the same.

Even today's NVidia stuff is different from RSX-era NVidia stuff, so emulation wouldn't be trivial in that manner either.

Even if they stuck with Nvidia, getting conpatability with the low level RSX access in PS3 would be difficult enough.

brain_stew says it better than I did (as usual)

hardware not being able to run 1080p at 60+ fps is a failure for next gen, if that is the case

support for 4K resolution is a total waste of money and resources

Even the Wii U GPU can technically output resolutions beyond 2K... (and probably 4K, depending on the HDMI revision on the board) doesn't mean games are going to go anywhere near that.

None of the rumoured graphics cards next gen support 4K

Integrated chips nowadays can drive a 4K display. And by drive, I mean display at a 4K resolution. All this 4K talk is distracting from the real issues here. "SubFullHD" is going to be the new buzzword next gen.

 

[Durante]

Even if they stuck with Nvidia, getting conpatability with the low level RSX access in PS3 would be difficult enough.

It wouldn't be easy, but emulating the GPU is trivial compared to emulating Cell, which is not happening.

Someone other than me should be discussing this. I'm comfortable that if Sony wants BC then BSC is the perfect partner to determine what's needed in hardware and to write the software to emulate Cell. The BSC Rumor does support this. The choice of an APU and a second GPU rather than a simpler to implement off the shelf CPU & single GPU then makes more sense, the APU (both CPU and GPU in the same package) to emulate a Cell.

I'm "discussing" it. I'm telling you that you cannot achieve general Cell emulation on an AMD APU in the next 5 years, regardless of budget. Can not.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

I don't know why people are doubting 4K. Sharp and LG have 4K displays coming this year. Sony already released their 4K projector, have 4K upscaling players this month and are working on a 4K BC spec with the HEVC codec to be, hopefully, finished in 2013. It's not going to happen overnight but you gotta start somewhere.

PS4 supporting 4K shouldn't be surprising or hard to believe. Sony is always pushing 4K and the will use PS4 to push it further into our homes.

 

[Lord Error]

"SubFullHD" is going to be the new buzzword next gen.

Yep... I expect a lot of 1280x1080 games next gen. Which is not that bad really, with some AA added.

 

[Raistlin]

Why would you compare the PS4 APU with the Wii U GPU? That would be like comparing PS3 Cell with 360 Xenos.

Because the GPU inside the APU can be used in conjunction with the discrete GPU?

expensive hardware???or do you think rendering 4k games is going to be cheap?

The GPU's in question from AMD already support 4k. Nothing stated in the rumor actually implies they are designing a system that can actually render complex games at 4k. Yes, that would take insane HW. All this says is that the GPU and HDMI can output 4k resolutions.

 

[AndyD]

The GPU's in question from AMD already support 4k. Nothing stated in the rumor actually implies they are designing a system that can actually render complex games at 4k. Yes, that would take insane HW. All this says is that the GPU and HDMI can output 4k resolutions.

That's all that's really necessary. Like the PS3 with Blu-ray and 3D it can be used as a showcase rather than a standard.

XMB and blurays in 4K is all I would want out of a PS4. Games can safely sit at 1080p and focus on fps, aa, af, and effects rather than go beyond 1080p.

 

[BradleyLove]

/tinfoilhat

Yeah, maybe so. Sports teams do it all the time tho. Claim players are injured in the build-up to matches, F1 teams claiming their pre-season testing is sub-par and so on.

Why not leak false specs? It's a theory that I think is reasonably plausible.

 

[USC-fan]

Why would you compare the PS4 APU with the Wii U GPU? That would be like comparing PS3 Cell with 360 Xenos.

Sorry it wasnt clear. I was just talking about the GPU in the APU by itself is more powerful than the rumor wiiu gpu. The apu GPU is more powerful than the RSX in the PS3.

well the APU is a CPU & GPU & the WiiU has a CPU & GPU so he can compare them why can't he?


how does the GPU in the APU compare to the PS3/Xbox 360 GPU's? if the WiiU is rumored to be about the same as the PS3 & 360 & if the GPU in the APU is more powerful, then there is nothing wrong with what he said. besides the fact that we only have rumors to go by.

The apu gpu is more powerful than the RSX in PS3.

 

[Freshmaker]

So....in layman terms....

It's going beyond polygons!

 

[KageMaru]

why not? if the ipad 3 can run at 1536 x 2048 what make you think a next gen console can't run these same type of games that are on PSN\XBLA \Tablets & Smartphones at 4K.

Because console games are more demanding than Angry Birds, that's why.

Even IF a developer can natively render a *simple* game at 4K, they would have to do more than just change the rendering resolution. Assets would have to be created in higher resolutions, effects would have to be rendered at higher resolutions/precisions, and the overall budget would go up a good deal. If your rendering at 4K but your assets are designed for 720p, the higher resolution will only highlight the flaws better.

All this just to support a feature that doesn't even have a market to support the additional investment. Developers who are targeting these cheaper download services are not looking for ways to blow up their budgers. It's. Not. Happening.

 

[RoboPlato]

I don't know why people are doubting 4K. Sharp and LG have 4K displays coming this year. Sony already released their 4K projector, have 4K upscaling players this month and are working on a 4K BC spec with the HEVC codec to be, hopefully, finished in 2013. It's not going to happen overnight but you gotta start somewhere.

PS4 supporting 4K shouldn't be surprising or hard to believe. Sony is always pushing 4K and the will use PS4 to push it further into our homes.

Agreed. 4k won't be anywhere near affordable for a while but it'll be around. I assume that Sony will really be pushing 4k blu-ray support in the PS4. We may also see some simple PSN games at that resolution. Nothing major but it will be a bullet point Sony will want to get out there.

 

[Durante]

All this just to support a feature that doesn't even have a market to support the additional investment. Developers who are targeting these cheaper download services are not looking for ways to blow up their budgers. It's. Not. Happening.

Wow, when I'll be rendering Legend of Grimrock at close to "4k" resolution next week I'll be certain to ask those 4 Finnish guys how they managed to deal with the expenses of high resolution graphics!

Without the snark: no, "AAA" title won't be rendering at 4k, but that's no reason not to include the functionality if the hardware already supports it. It's about as "out there" as 1080p is for current generation consoles.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Yeah, maybe so. Sports teams do it all the time tho. Claim players are injured in the build-up to matches, F1 teams claiming their pre-season testing is sub-par and so on.

Why not leak false specs? It's a theory that I think is reasonably plausible.

Because none of these companies will be using a shitty internet gaming site as a source for their competitors specs. They'll either use spies or more likely use their relationships(or money) to get information out of 3rd party vendors to get an idea of where they are each headed.

It's they type of business where knowing what your competitor is doing is almost as important as what you are doing internally, they probably have a small team of people whose sole job is to figure out what each other is doing.

 

[KageMaru]

Wow, when I'll be rendering Legend of Grimrock at close to "4k" resolution next week I'll be certain to ask those 4 Finnish guys how they managed to deal with the expenses of high resolution graphics!

Without the snark: no, "AAA" title won't be rendering at 4k, but that's no reason not to include the functionality if the hardware already supports it. It's about as "out there" as 1080p is for current generation consoles.

I'm talking about next Gen console games that will face a certain level of expectations to how graphics should be, not a grid based dungeon crawler with current Gen graphics on your PC =P. I'm already aware that PC games are coming close or hitting 4K resolutions. Meanwhile the vast vast majority of home consoles will be played on tvs with a max resolution of 1080p, making it hard to justify 4K development.

Besides, this and last gen has proven that time per pixel > number of pixels and I don't see that changing next Gen.

I do agree with you that if they could support 4K, they will. However just like 1080p this gen, native 4K resolution will mean almost nothing next gen when it comes to games.

 

[Corky]

What would you consider common?

~15-40%

 

[Globox_82]

on N4G there is a link about new Orbis rumors. Seems like bs

 

[alr1ght]

on N4G there is a link about new Orbis rumors. Seems like bs

YOU DON'T SAY!

 

[Globox_82]

YOU DON'T SAY!

lol

 

[onQ123]

I'm talking about next Gen console games that will face a certain level of expectations to how graphics should be, not a grid based dungeon crawler with current Gen graphics on your PC =P. I'm already aware that PC games are coming close or hitting 4K resolutions. Meanwhile the vast vast majority of home consoles will be played on tvs with a max resolution of 1080p, making it hard to justify 4K development.

Besides, this and last gen has proven that time per pixel > number of pixels and I don't see that changing next Gen.

I do agree with you that if they could support 4K, they will. However just like 1080p this gen, native 4K resolution will mean almost nothing next gen when it comes to games.

4K is coming & bringing Glasses free 3D with it, Sony is going to push 4K in the PS4 just to sell their new 4K TVs , Cameras & Projectors.


small downloadable games are very popular now having the next big game in 4K /Glasses Free 3D is going to be a good marketing plan.


say a game comes out on smart phones & iPad that everyone falls in love with you know the everyday people who are not on Neogaf all day & are not really the biggest Gamers so they don't keep up with all this stuff but the game is on their smart phone & they like it. this person walks into Best Buy or Wal-Mart whatever & they see the game that they like being played on the Big TV Glasses Free 3D being controlled with just the hand movements just like on the touch screen on their phone but without having to touch anything & the glasses free 3D is pulling them into the game even more. that's going to at least make them start thinking about buying a 4K TV.

 

[Indyana]

Sorry it wasnt clear. I was just talking about the GPU in the APU by itself is more powerful than the rumor wiiu gpu. The apu GPU is more powerful than the RSX in the PS3.


The apu gpu is more powerful than the RSX in PS3.

What rumor are you talking about? The one I linked, said that Wii U devkit had a RV770. The worst one, Radeon 4830, has 736 Gflops, according to Wikipedia. The GPU in the APU, Radeon 6550D, has 480 Gflops. How is that any better?

 

[Globox_82]

What rumor are you talking about? The one I linked, said that Wii U devkit had a RV770. The worst one, Radeon 4830, has 736 Gflops, according to Wikipedia. The GPU in the APU, Radeon 6550D, has 480 Gflops. How is that any better?

these rumors are nonsense.
I only care abut what devs are saying and so far they are not impressed with WiiU graphic powers. If it is around PSthree and current box, then using common sense and logic 720 and PS4 will be more powerful since PS4720 have to be more powerful then their predecessors. Common sense

And since you love rumors that any one could be spreading, here is another one.

http://pastebin.com/5giPQP2r

 

[Log4Girlz]

these rumors are nonsense.
I only care abut what devs are saying and so far they are not impressed with WiiU graphic powers. If it is around PSthree and current box, then using common sense and logic 720 and PS4 will be more powerful since PS4720 have to be more powerful then their predecessors. Common sense

And since you love rumors that any one could be spreading, here is another one.

http://pastebin.com/5giPQP2r

I've been curious, what the hell exactly is pastebin?

 

[Shikoro]

on N4G there is a link about new Orbis rumors. Seems like bs

It's the same rumor, only now it's poorly written and reeks of "I haz no ideaz of techzorz"...

 

[dgrdsv]

I don't know why people are doubting 4K. Sharp and LG have 4K displays coming this year. Sony already released their 4K projector, have 4K upscaling players this month and are working on a 4K BC spec with the HEVC codec to be, hopefully, finished in 2013. It's not going to happen overnight but you gotta start somewhere.

PS4 supporting 4K shouldn't be surprising or hard to believe. Sony is always pushing 4K and the will use PS4 to push it further into our homes.

4K is just an intermediate standard between HD and UHD/8K though. As far as I know there are no plans of using 4K in TV broadcasts and the next TV standard is supposed to be UHD/8K. Thus PS4 support for 4K shouldn't cost too much because there is a good chance that 4K won't be that widespread and 8K will come pretty soon after it.

 

[Jocchan]

I've been curious, what the hell exactly is pastebin?

http://pastebin.com/XmJPP86i

 

[Globox_82]

It's the same rumor, only now it's poorly written and reeks of "I haz no ideaz of techzorz"...

"A site where you can paste anything."