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[Overside]

I'll explain why this reasoning is flawed.

You're not looking at the mini-map at all times, but there's nothing stopping you from keeping an ear on your friends. Your friends can call your attention to the mini-map (and relevant things going down on it) when shit is going down. And there's a reason why I emphasized the reactionary aspect of having all the information on the mini-map. You can use the map to react to things. You cannot use the map to plan out any sort of meaningful teamwork with your friends when you lack the capacity for specific on the fly communication.

There is already an option for this, the d-pad is labeled for each one of your teammates, and one for all. When they push yours an icon appears around your player notifying you, their icon is also flashing/pulsing on the map. I ignore it, every time, much like I ignore most vo on other platforms, although for different reasons this time. The more enemies persuing a single player the better, that means they arent covering much area, while I can cover stuff they arent paying attention too.

For example, you can't tell your friend to watch one side of the map because that's where you've noticed certain enemies tend to go.

I dont need to, my freind has access to the same information, its on him to utililize and act upon it.

You can't tell your friend to change locations because they're painting redundantly.
[\quote]

You sure seem intent on using voice chat to control the way others play. This seems more like a random issue than a with freinds issue.

You can't tell your friend he's being deliberately tailed by another player.

Good. if hes being tailed then thats one enemy player wasting their time on my redundant friend instead of winning.

You can't engage in any meaningful map control that isn't 'four random dudes reacting to each other's gameplay on a mini-map after the fact'. You can only hope they've made the same exact observations as you've made themselves, at the same exact time as you, or at least before them having that information becomes irrelevant. Which isn't always the case no matter how much information you present the player with.

Not after the fact, while its happening. Its a real time feed. And far better than relying on most other people.

You also vastly over-estimate the effect of your voice getting other random people to do what you want, and vastly under estimating what a good team can do, by knowing who they are playing with, even without the ability to verbally communicate. (And that doesnt mean I downplay the importance of C in S.M.C)

Well it's good for you I guess that you don't use voice chat, but I hardly game on Wii U with my friends specifically because we can't talk unless we tie up our phones with Skype the entire time.

And while I can agree that standardization or moreover homogenization is a poison to this industry, I feel you have not provided a sensible reason as to why the inclusion of friend chat specifically would be tantamount to 'poisoning' the game ala design decisions like ADS, Sprint, and XP infecting shooters. Voice chat would not suddenly strip this game of its unique qualities or keep the game from avoiding feeling like every other shooter. You've just painted voice chat as a 'standardization', which must be a bad thing for reasons, right? Except not really.

Im not painting voice chat as the poison of standardizartion, I remember using voice chat, it was enjoyable, easily droppable, but an enjoyable convenience. I have no issue with it being an option for splatoon whatsoever, in fact, even now, I hope they patch it in with the party update, for people who just like to shoot the shit while playing. Its the knee jerk overblown reaction to a game not having it, that I am taking issue to, its the reaction from an already conditioned and posioned point of view. Nothing else is being looked at, only people running around screaming 'Standard feature!!! It doesnt have standard feature #7! Standard features!!!!'

Not having voice chat doesnt suddenly make this game just like all the other games designed around 'ADS, Sprint, and XP', but missing voice chat.

But nobody gives a shit about that. Its all about missing standard feature #7.

 

[Nanashrew]

Reposting my question:

What is this in reference to? I don't disbelieve that it happened (there is a defense force for everything) but I'm morbidly curious...

It's referencing N64 and NES games having some darker screens. So far the only thing people can think of is to help people avoid epileptic seizure. No word from Nintendo however so it remains unknown.

Though NES games were already darkened on the Wii. Oddly SNES games, for the most part, seem unscathed with the exception of Kirby Super Star. Nobody knows and people would really like some clarification.

 

[Meaty]

Man, I bet he doesnt know how ridiculous he looks doing these arguments THIS silly

 

[Reebot]

You actually think it would take Nintendo that long or cost tons of money just to input voice chat into the game? This is more of a business decision, albeit a very strange one for the type of game that it is, but it's not really cheap or lazy

I think it is blatantly cheaper and easier to outright disable voice chat than to implement it with a variety of safeties and options, yes.

 

[Zombie James]

I think it is blatantly cheaper and easier to outright disable voice chat than to implement it with a variety of safeties and options, yes.

So the IGN article is spot on.

 

[M_A_C]

I don't want to talk to or hear randoms anyway. I'm more worried about the little things like letting you change classes in the middle of a game etc.

 

[Vena]

The developers have made statements as to why they aren't including voice chat. Speculating that they'll turn it around based on nothing is just as nonsensical as assuming the game will be free when we know its price.

Ahh I see, I misunderstood your point.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Are you trolling?
The developers already mention, that they choose against Voice-Chat from an early point of development. They believe, the game has all the important information visualized, which is a hard job. If this worked out should be judged after the game was reviewed or people got the chance to really play it over a long time. Right now, people only compare it to other titles and make assumption.

Yes, Voice-Chat is great as a social-option. But you should properly not design your game around it, because not everybody wants to or should use it.

Just because they chose to do it that way doesn't mean it's a good decision that benefits the game. Developers can be wrong you know. Let's say that they didn't decide to let you pick your skin color when making your Splatoon character because they feel that one shade of skin was how they wanted make their character designs. Does that mean it's alright that black people can't make a black character because that's the way the developer intended the game to be?

 

[Yogg]

They could try implementing a feature that some games have had since 2007 and give players an option to disable voice chat if they want.

I already gave my opinion about it being an option you can disable. About it existing in other games since 2007, I actually don't think it's relevant. Some games have mechanics that other games don't have, that's it. Splatoon won't have this feature as opposed to a Cod or CS game, and I don't mind that at all. That's actually one trait that makes it more appealing to me. I won't have to endure namecalling, and I won't be crushed in public games because of a lack of voice-chat.

 

[Reebot]

Are you trolling?
The developers already mention, that they choose against Voice-Chat from an early point of development. They believe, the game has all the important information visualized, which is a hard job. If this worked out should be judged after the game was reviewed or people got the chance to really play it over a long time. Right now, people only compare it to other titles and make assumption.

Yes, Voice-Chat is great as a social-option. But you should properly not design your game around it, because not everybody wants to or should use it.

Why do you believe a developer's choice is immune to criticism?

 

[Metal B]

Well hey, it makes sense that people who like voice chat are the loudest and most vitriolic about their opinions

Yes, this is also complete okay and have the right to get heard.
I guess, the IGN title is just the most horrible part of the thread and creates an aggressive undertone between the two fronts. Fans of the game properly feel like, the game gets unfairly bashed, because of a missing feature. Splatoon looks, like a game, the developers put a lot of heart and work into. Calling the game "cheap and lazy", because of a clear design-choice (good or bad) doesn't help the argumentation and just creates a bad basis for discussion.

 

[M°°nblade]

Am I wrong though?

I bet you Overside is Japanese, and that's why he really appreciates what Nintendo is trying to do. He's being forced to repeat himself over, and over again, because people aren't understanding the intricacy of what he's trying to tell them. He's someone who puts game design before anything else, like Japan. You don't see fetch quests, or towers, or unnecessary attention to designing some stupid chips packet you'll see for a brief second like most western game studios focus on. Everyone arguing against him is probably white, black, or even worse, a muslim. They don't appreciate game design like Japanese people do.

Why is Japan the birthplace of gaming?

Why is Miyamoto, someone from Nintendo, the father of gaming?

Why was Final Fantasy the first RPG ever made?

Why was Mario the first platformer ever made?

What does the answer come back to?

Japan.

Right now, Japan, and Nintendo, are innovating, and people don't appreciate that. Splatoon is a new type of shooting game like Overside keeps telling you all. The developers don't want voice chat because it gets in the way, is harmful for children, and is unnecessary for this game. Does everyone arguing against him even have a Wii U? I bet most of them don't, and that all of them won't purchase Splatoon. Just like everyone was crying about Bayonetta, but then no one bought it. This is a targeted hate campaign. It's all IGN's fault.

I know you agree, because you believe yourself people will always have a reason to not buy a Nintendo product, even if Nintendo listens to everything that's asked of them. Those phantom reasons that always appear out of nowhere.

You have a tongue of gold. Don't let them take that away from you.

 

[Overside]

I don't want to talk to or hear randoms anyway. I'm more worried about the little things like letting you change classes in the middle of a game etc.

I dont think thats a little thing at all....

I think thats pretty huge, it has a massive impact on how things will go down.

My gut would be on putting that as no, as a more, you made your bed now sleep in it deal...

But then again, I dont think you can see what your opposing force, or even your team mates would be having before entering battle.

So I think maybe a limited number of changes is what I would try.

 

[stan423321]

People are legitimately defending no voice chat in this thread. This is actually happening.

I legitimately hate voice chat. One, I can't understand anybody since I can't hear differences between half of English vowels. Two, nobody can't understand me due to me not distinguishing half of English vowels. Three, I want to relax when playing and talking with people who I don't know is the exact opposite of relaxing.

But the biggest problem of all is that "allies" who use voice chat proceed to screw me over because I opt to not use the thing.

If Splatoon had voice chat with randoms which would be turned on by default, I would be pretty much forced to ignore most of the online functionality. It's a slightly different story on PC, but on a console it would be hugely discouraging for me unless there was a separate queue for people with the thing turned on.

 

[Ridley327]

So, looking at how DLC heavy this game is supposed to be...what are the odds they will add voice chat later?

You know, when it will become actually useful with party matchmaking and support for custom games coming in August...

The director seemed really insistent on there being no voice chat ever, but Nintendo seems to be pretty willing to listen to communities with regards to features to improve the experience for online-centric games. Even for single player stuff, Mario Kart 8 came a long way with just the stat tracker update that also added relatively minor things like swapping the replay and next race buttons after the race results screen.

I doubt adding voice chat is trivial for this game, though, since I would have to believe that the netcode as it is right now wouldn't be able to keep up with everything else that's going on, leading to more stability problems. An OS-level chat option would get around that, but who knows if Nintendo can even get multiple apps like that going on the Wii U.

 

[jroc74]

You do bring up a decent point and that is if you are not part of the team you can feel ostracised. I've been in matches where some don't use a headset and then team-mates get upset because they can't strategize with them. Or you have groups that will remove you from the lobby if you don't answer. I still prefer the scenario that at least having that option should be there especially in team based games online.

I wanted to mention this earlier....Voice chat doesnt have to be 2 way. On some games you can still hear voice chat but dont communicate back. Watch Dogs and TLoU MP are 2 I've noticed this. There are probably many more.

I also have the option of disabling it or turning the volume all the way down for voice chat (hey, thats 2 options!!)

I still heard strategy, advice by just hearing the others. They communicated directly to me. I just couldnt give my own advice, strategy back. I did what was asked so they knew I heard them. Never been shunned for not answering, I mean I could just send a message that I dont have a mic but can still hear.

 

[ksamedi]

Voice chat option would be nice when playing wih friends. I liked what I played of Splatoon, but not being able to communicate a strategy is pretty flawed design. Just because they want to protect kids does not mean they should leave the option out for millions of gamers who would like to have such option. Pretty stupid and one of the reasons Nintendo is lagging behind in sales these days. Their games just lack the most basic of options even though they are great in design.

 

[Overside]

Voice chat option would be nice when playing wih friends. I liked what I played of Splatoon, but not being able to communicate a strategy is pretty flawed design. Just because they want to protect kids does not mean they should leave the option out for millions of gamers who would like to have such option. Pretty stupid and one of the reasons Nintendo is lagging behind in sales these days. Their games just lack the most basic of options even though they are great in design.

That sounds more like a problem with basic options being more valued than great design, and why 90% of everything I see today is shit.

Shit with options.

 

[Jotamide]

IGN is spot on. Nintendo builds these amazing worlds and gameplay experiences yet they always manage to disappoint me and delay my Wii U purchase even further. I know I'll get one at some point, most likely once Zelda U drops. However, I know for a fact that if they had a proper and safe account system across all its platforms, a Virtual Console that didn't release only 4 classic games a month, and a robust online platform where messaging, voice chat, and lobbies where a non-issue, I would have had one a long time ago.

 

[Raide]

That sounds more like a problem with basic options being more valued than great design, and why 90% of everything I see today is shit.

Shit with options.

Games can do both.

 

[Fandangox]

That sounds more like a problem with basic options being more valued than great design, and why 90% of everything I see today is shit.

I have no idea from how you came to this conclusion.

People can appreciate the Design in Splatoon, and think and praise it as a rather unique combat mechanic, but STILL think that the lack of an otherwise common feature in pretty much online team console game is a big flaw.

 

[plasmawave]

To those who mentioned genre that doesn't matter.

All that matters is that the game gave you the means to progress while doing tasks without voice chat together. The irony is strong that you guys seem to be the types who loved Journey but are getting overly dramatic over another game lacking it. If you lived without it in Journey you can do the same in this game even though it isn't ideal.

Splatoon is a team based shooter. How do you not see the difference?

 

[Reebot]

Games can do both.

No dude, it's one or the other.

Because of.... Sunglasses? Or something?

 

[spindashing]

No dude, it's one or the other.

Because of.... Sunglasses? Or something?

Shit with sunglasses.™

 

[Overside]

Games can do both.

They can, but by and large they arent.

I have no idea from how you came to this conclusion.

People can appreciate the Design in Splatoon, and think and praise it as a rather unique combat mechanic, but STILL think that the lack of an otherwise common feature in pretty much online team console game is a big flaw.

Yes. Yes they absolutely can!!!

But they arent.

 

[Raide]

No dude, it's one or the other.

Because of.... Sunglasses? Or something?

I knew it!

 

[OmegaFax]

Couldn't they modulate voices to sound a bit like the squid characters? Annoying, sure ... but it would weed out people singling out and bullying any particular person.

 

[M°°nblade]

That sounds more like a problem with basic options being more valued than great design, and why 90% of everything I see today is shit.

Shit with options.

They are not mutually exclusive. You can have great design and basic options.

 

[Raide]

Couldn't they modulate voices to sound a bit like the squid characters? Annoying, sure ... but it would weed out people singling out and bullying any particular person.

Your mom's a classy lady...de geso.

 

[Fandangox]

They can, but by and large they arent.



Yes. Yes they absolutely can!!!

But they arent.

How do you know?

 

[Night Angel]

They can, but by and large they arent.



Yes. Yes they absolutely can!!!

But they arent.

So voice chat somehow disables a developer's ability to make a good game? Do developers reach a point where they say "we could do something unique here, but only as long as people can't communicate"? Does the idea of an arena shooter based on paint only exist in a world without voice chat? Explain.

Did the choice to avoid voice chat enable ANYTHING during the development process of this game?

 

[Busaiku]

No dude, it's one or the other.

Because of.... Sunglasses? Or something?

Probably hipsters.

 

[spindashing]

Yes. Yes they absolutely can!!!

But they arent.

Now you're speaking for people?

 

[Overside]

How do you know?

Because I can read. And if there are any sprinkled throughout here, they are vastly overshadowed by the innumerous shreiks of 'standard feature'.

 

[Dion Blaster]

Just watch Nintendo make the next Console a "Gaffer's Best Dream" with Voice Chat everywhere, Free Multiplayer, Region-Free, 500gb Memory, Friends List and Invites...The Whole Shebang!

...and it still bomb all over the place because people won't buy it because of "reasons".

The odds of a console like that doing worse than the Wii U are almost impossible.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Because that would be a completely fictitious situation impossible to pull off in real life.

He wanted one team (my team) playing on mute, and the other team with skype or some other third party solution, but he said 'muteless', instead of mute, or really, he didnt need to say anything, since the game is mute by default.

Both teams having voice chat would be completely pointless to the posit.

But, nice try. (Not really)

No, a minimap wouldnt work, and you still dont understand the point of the game. Running into enemies is not important. Dying, is not important. You are still trying to shoehorn this game, into being a traditional shooter where you run around and kill the enemy, which is EXACTLY what you are talking about. 'Bad guys here!' Bad guys there!'

Besides, there are specific sub and special weapons designed to make this a gameplay element.

A minimap would be pointless because it would be a mini mpa, when you need the WHOLE map, because of the way the game is designed.

And no, having to look at the gamepad is not that big of a deal,especially in a game like this.

There is no penalty for death, and there is no reward for kills.

You really think that's all there are in the current shooter space?

What you're describing is Battlefield since several years before splatoon, and I call tell you voice chat is crucial in that game.

 

[Night Angel]

Because I can read. And if there are any sprinkled throughout here, they are vastly overshadowed by the innumerous shreiks of 'standard feature'.

And yet you still refuse to recognize WHY it's a standard feature. The only one shrieking in here is you.

 

[MrPanic]

They are not mutually exclusive. You can have great design and basic options.

What if you made a great design around the choice of excluding an option. Should you just give the option anyway because people are crying over it while the game isn't even out yet and might not realize the effects its inclusion could have on the game?

Spoiler

Sunglasses

 

[jimi_dini]

The problem is less, that people are okay with Splatoon having no Voice-Chat, but that others make a big deal out of it. You have an unique new title and some (including IGN) bash it, because of an missing optional option. Like the game is "cheap and lazy" without it.

I wonder what all those games, that can't even keep up a perfect 60 fps are when following IGN's click-bait logic.

And yet you still refuse to recognize WHY it's a standard feature. The only one shrieking in here is you.

Well, a K/D number is "standard" in shooters as well (and ruins cooperative games like Plunder in Uncharted series successfully).
Does Splatoon have that? I hope not.

"Well it's standard" is not always a great argument.

 

[Fracas]

I legitimately hate voice chat. One, I can't understand anybody since I can't hear differences between half of English vowels. Two, nobody can't understand me due to me not distinguishing half of English vowels. Three, I want to relax when playing and talking with people who I don't know is the exact opposite of relaxing.

But the biggest problem of all is that "allies" who use voice chat proceed to screw me over because I opt to not use the thing.

If Splatoon had voice chat with randoms which would be turned on by default, I would be pretty much forced to ignore most of the online functionality. It's a slightly different story on PC, but on a console it would be hugely discouraging for me unless there was a separate queue for people with the thing turned on.

Voice chat
[ ] on [ x ] off

Oh hey look I fixed it

But nah let's just hamper online play for everyone else because I personally am not a fan

 

[Night Angel]

What if you made a great design around the choice of excluding an option. Should you just give the option anyway because people are crying over it while the game isn't even out yet and might not realize the effects its inclusion could have on the game?

Spoiler

Sunglasses

Let me direct you to my previous post:

So voice chat somehow disables a developer's ability to make a good game? Do developers reach a point where they say "we could do something unique here, but only as long as people can't communicate"? Does the idea of an arena shooter based on paint only exist in a world without voice chat? Explain.

Did the choice to avoid voice chat enable ANYTHING during the development process of this game?

How did the devs improve the game design by excluding said option?

 

[Fandangox]

Because I can read. And if there are any sprinkled throughout here, they are vastly overshadowed by the innumerous shreiks of 'standard feature'.

So people have to sing praises to the design every time they want to criticize one aspect of the game?

The topic is about lack of voice chat, so of course that;s going to dominate the discussion.

 

[M°°nblade]

Because I can read.

Wait, are you saying not having voicechat in splatoon is not a big flaw because you can read?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I wonder what all those games, that can't even keep up a perfect 60 fps are when following IGN's click-bait logic.

IGN said they like the game, but they are criticizing the lack of a feature that is common and believe it's necessary these days. You may not agree with them, but that's far from bashing the game...

Also your comparisson is mot, IGN notes when game has FPS problems all the time.

 

[spindashing]

Voice chat
[ ] on [ x ] off

Oh hey look I fixed it

But nah let's just hamper online play for everyone else because I personally am not a fan

And if people are concerned about the masses of white boys hollering racial epithets, friends only voice chat would be the option.

I love Splatoon; I've been a fan since day one and I intend to buy it as soon as possible but no friends only voice chat is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Because I can read. And if there are any sprinkled throughout here, they are vastly overshadowed by the innumerous shreiks of 'standard feature'.

Again, you still haven't given a reason why they couldn't give the option while keeping their basic game design. Just because they designed it to not NEED voice chat doesn't mean that they had to eliminate it completely. How does having voice chat destroy the game design in any way? Everything you said about the layout on the screen would still apply. It's not as if voice chat would change anything that's happening on the screen or any of the design decisions they made. There would just be an added layer on top of it.

Would you also support them never adding a friend party feature to the game? After all, you don't NEED TO play with friends, they added a matchmaking system so that you could play with anyone! So I guess you never need to play with friends, right?

 

[Overside]

You really think that's all there are in the current shooter space?

What you're describing is Battlefield since several years before splatoon, and I call tell you voice chat is crucial in that game.

Dying is very important in games like battlefield, they have different ways it affects the game, from each death adding cumalitive time to the respawn, or having each death take away from the 'reinforcements' and many other perks/cons to killing or dying.

Also, battlefield types takes place in much larger maps, with things like combat vehicles and personell transports people should load up into and drop down over capture points with, with much more organic, and much less focused design, and lacks the color coating aspect which is a massive visual tell when looking at the map, you cant gather every single peice of info needed to know exactly what you needed to do at that moment in the game by glancing at a map, even if every single enemy and their orientation was on that map.

They are very different.

Again, you still haven't given a reason why they couldn't give the option while keeping their basic game design. Just because they designed it to not NEED voice chat doesn't mean that they had to eliminate it completely. How does having voice chat destroy the game design in any way? Everything you said about the layout on the screen would still apply. It's not as if voice chat would change anything that's happening on the screen or any of the design decisions they made. There would just be an added layer on top of it.

Of course including voice chat would not destroy the games design. Just because it is perfectly functional without it doesnt mean it would not be nice to shoot the shit while playing, and laugh about things that happened.

The same way not having it doesnt destroy the games design. It would have been nice, but this shit storm is ridiculously out of proportion.

 

[Steel]

Man, thread has doubled since I last checked it.

I don't see how anyone can defend absolutely no voice chat online. I mean, the main argument is: "Oh, it's for the children so no voice chat at at all is a great idea".

Of course, what absolutely no voice chat, not even with your friends, does for kids is completely isolate them. They have friends at school who have splatoon? Cool, but now if they play with them online they can't chat to each other so it becomes a completely solo anti-social experience in multiplayer of all things. I would get having no general voice chat as that can get pretty toxic, but no chat with friends isn't child friendly at all.

I wonder what all those games, that can't even keep up a perfect 60 fps are when following IGN's click-bait logic.

What the hell does Frames per second have to do with no voice chat?

 

[stan423321]

Voice chat
[ ] on [ x ] off

Oh hey look I fixed it

But nah let's just hamper online play for everyone else because I personally am not a fan

Did you even read my post?

tl;dr

Spoiler

you can get harassed for disabling voice chat

tl;dr extra

Spoiler

I actually mentioned that a switch would be enough if it would affect matchmaking

 

[cloudstrife]

Did you even read my post?

tl;dr

Spoiler

you can get harassed for disabling voice chat

tl;dr extra

Spoiler

I actually mentioned that a switch would be enough if it would affect matchmaking

I'm sorry if you don't like talking to people, or enjoy the company of good friends. I on the other hand do, and can't invest in a game with such isolation.