Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
The importance of a good story in games is freagin overated!
IGNCube Editors Need To Stop Posting their LiveJournal entries online
- Thread starter SantaC
- Start date
NO NO NO MATT!!!!! Obviously, Ganon can't kill Zelda in the Revolution game!!!! ARE YOU MAD??!!
Zelda will be a playable character, wearing skimpy, metallic armor with a belly-button piercing after Ganon has ravaged the entire city with children's heads impaled on spikes outside the city walls.
Zelda will be a playable character, wearing skimpy, metallic armor with a belly-button piercing after Ganon has ravaged the entire city with children's heads impaled on spikes outside the city walls.
People want a mature Zelda because Nintendo created Adult Link in Ocarina of Time and gamers went 'hey this is cool'. It's because Nintendo created the Spaceworld Zelda teaser trailer and gamers stood out and cheered like crazed fanboys. Gamers desire for a more grown up Link COMES FROM NINTENDO. If Miyamoto didn't want Adult Link taking over as the dominant image of Link from Kid Link then he shouldn't have given Adult Link the amount of prominence he did (More than half of the game was Adult Link, and the entire end game was all Adult Link). It's his fault, unintentional to be sure, but his fault nonetheless.
My interpretation is this. You can change the details of the story, but you need to keep the heart the same. Otherwise it's not the same person, thing, idea, or intellectual property.
Zelda moving on, to me, is no longer Zelda. How about a kiddy or censored GTA? A Mortal Kombat without fatalities or blood? A Barbie game with Rocket Launcher and evil Ken dolls sodomizing people?
I feel that when the soul of something is changed, it's no longer the same thing.
EDIT: I don't challenge your last post at all Azih, in fact I think you're entirely right. It saddens me that the gaming public in general reacts this way and has that much of an effect on the core of Zelda. So many adult IPs and they need to have Zelda too, ugh.
Zelda moving on, to me, is no longer Zelda. How about a kiddy or censored GTA? A Mortal Kombat without fatalities or blood? A Barbie game with Rocket Launcher and evil Ken dolls sodomizing people?
I feel that when the soul of something is changed, it's no longer the same thing.
EDIT: I don't challenge your last post at all Azih, in fact I think you're entirely right. It saddens me that the gaming public in general reacts this way and has that much of an effect on the core of Zelda. So many adult IPs and they need to have Zelda too, ugh.
It does, to an extent.
The way I see it is OOT's adult Link is like a story arc. It's Zelda on a grander scale. It takes its original core, the idea of a boy overcoming evil, and takes it thru time. I feel that the original vision stays true in OOT simply because it communicates defeating evil over time, that good and evil transcend time. But the beginning allows the core to stay true.
WW had something OOT didn't though, and that's a whole helluva lot of personality. The animation, etc help the characters leap off the screen. The new direction of Zelda seems soulless and dark, and that's simply not the core of Zelda. That staying conflict is gone. It seems to have morphed into D&D.
If NCL can pull off a miracle and give it the same personality it did before, I'll be dumbstruck and eat my words, I have NO shame in retracting my statements and I'm perfectly fine with being proven wrong. But again, I feel like this decision was made to appease bloodthirsty, angry fans that need Zelda to be more in line with GTA, Halo, to keep "The Big N" relevant as opposed to liking the adult direction... not because it was right for the series.
The way I see it is OOT's adult Link is like a story arc. It's Zelda on a grander scale. It takes its original core, the idea of a boy overcoming evil, and takes it thru time. I feel that the original vision stays true in OOT simply because it communicates defeating evil over time, that good and evil transcend time. But the beginning allows the core to stay true.
WW had something OOT didn't though, and that's a whole helluva lot of personality. The animation, etc help the characters leap off the screen. The new direction of Zelda seems soulless and dark, and that's simply not the core of Zelda. That staying conflict is gone. It seems to have morphed into D&D.
If NCL can pull off a miracle and give it the same personality it did before, I'll be dumbstruck and eat my words, I have NO shame in retracting my statements and I'm perfectly fine with being proven wrong. But again, I feel like this decision was made to appease bloodthirsty, angry fans that need Zelda to be more in line with GTA, Halo, to keep "The Big N" relevant as opposed to liking the adult direction... not because it was right for the series.
rawk said:
"Time to wander around...AIMLESSLY!"
Ah hahah.... I remember that scene all too well. Can't wait for the remake.
Anyway, Matt's comment on "maturing" Zelda by killing the princess is an incredibly easy way out as far as I'm concerened. What better way to develop the plot than to add MuRdEr? It's incredibly ridiculous and there are far better ways to develop the story into something more complex and emotionally powerful than by implementing death as a plot device.
jorge13130
Banned
Poor IGN, maybe they want also a turn based f-zero
I think this quotes shows why they're not developers. First of all, connecting the instant you enter a shop is cumbersome. Also, if items are added according to our world's timie, does that mean people who play it from the start will have to wait longer before they see some newer items. Inversely, if someone starts playing it 2 years after it's been released, will they immediately see all the shop items added to the server? Why not keep these items on the Game disc? The idea of added some bonus items to the server is ok, but entering the shop shouldn't trigger that event.
A few optional downloadable dungeons are ok, but it should not be an essential part of the game. Some people just want to play the game right away, and not have to wait till next month to see most everything.
I think this editor is thinking of ideas for an MMORPG. Zeldas are usually played for their clever dungeons, and single-player experience rather than for longevity/replayability. Thats just my opinion.
radioheadrule83
Banned
A Zelda online / MMORPG / four-swords-in-3d spin off is all well and good, and probably a valid co-operative Zelda idea that many in the west could grasp and like.
But as a game inclusive or in place of next gen single player Zelda? And the whole theme idea and reasoning behind it, dredging this mature thing back up... it's just bullshit. It's a fucking fairy tale, not mythological horror / murder-mystery.. I still think IGNs great, and idea articles do stimulate the boards over there (usually puts them in a big argument)... but I'm not with them on this particular one.
As for pre-Ocarina vs TWW style vs Ocarina style vs new style, I'm not even going to get into it. As long as its a charming, fun to play Zelda game at its core, that is all that matters... and that's what all Zelda games to this day have been. Not to say I'm happy about the coming games art style, I think it's shit, but I'll give the game a chance. More than many TWW detractors did. I really wish they'd put a traditional land based, difficult, and fully complete Zelda title out there -- maybe with both young and old Link, but in toon shading. The gulf in this argument would not be so great.
But as a game inclusive or in place of next gen single player Zelda? And the whole theme idea and reasoning behind it, dredging this mature thing back up... it's just bullshit. It's a fucking fairy tale, not mythological horror / murder-mystery.. I still think IGNs great, and idea articles do stimulate the boards over there (usually puts them in a big argument)... but I'm not with them on this particular one.
As for pre-Ocarina vs TWW style vs Ocarina style vs new style, I'm not even going to get into it. As long as its a charming, fun to play Zelda game at its core, that is all that matters... and that's what all Zelda games to this day have been. Not to say I'm happy about the coming games art style, I think it's shit, but I'll give the game a chance. More than many TWW detractors did. I really wish they'd put a traditional land based, difficult, and fully complete Zelda title out there -- maybe with both young and old Link, but in toon shading. The gulf in this argument would not be so great.
Jade Knight 08
Member
"REDRUM" is not the answer in Zelda series.
If that does happen wouldn't her death lose her "Triforce Essence of Wisdom" and Ganon could seize it or force to wait 'til next generation of her bloodline to carry the burden of the triforce.
I'm not sure how that works but the idea of having her killed might screw up the events of their generation i believed. Ahh, well, Color me stupid!!! :lol
If that does happen wouldn't her death lose her "Triforce Essence of Wisdom" and Ganon could seize it or force to wait 'til next generation of her bloodline to carry the burden of the triforce.
I'm not sure how that works but the idea of having her killed might screw up the events of their generation i believed. Ahh, well, Color me stupid!!! :lol
Bacon said:
It's not cool either way if it's forced. I think most people who want a more mature Zelda game are talking about controling a character that is closer to their age group--they are not talking the stuff that IGN was pulling out their asses with that whole revenge story crap.
Tritroid
Member
It wouldn't really change much. Ganon would probably be able to easily gain the Triforce of Wisdom if Link wasn't around to prevent him from stealing it after Zelda was murdered. But the Triforce of Wisdom isn't linked to her lifeforce, so Ganon wouldn't even need to kill her in order to get it (See: Wind Waker's ending).Jade Knight 08 said:
The Triforce of Wisdom is merely passed down from generation to generation within the Royal Family, similar to how the Ocarina of Time was.
Mike Works
Member
Oh God Matt. Give me a fucking break. Yeah, they can kill Zelda off at the beginning of the game, and then in the final FMV cutscene, Ganon and Link impale themselves on each other's swords, leaving the inevitable Revolution launch title; Mido's Madness, featuring an adapted Monkey Ball engine in the vain of Marble Madness where everything is black, grey, and dark grey, and you can take in game screenshots with special filters featuring overlapping blood spatters and chalk outlines that you can print out using your DS Printer to show to women in order to validate your immense level of maturity.
Word fucking up buddy.
Word fucking up buddy.
Christberg
Member
You know what I would love to see in the next Zelda game?
Link starts the game as a man, gets the holy living dogsnot whipped out of him by Gannon, say about halfway through the game, and needs to regain his childhood in order to defeat him because his life became too complex and the confusion in his heart stops him from having the courage to win.
Now THAT would be awesome. PA has it right, this whole cult of generic antihero shit has gotten fucking old and cliche. It's about high time somebody kicked that shit right in the fucking beanbag.
As usual, Cassamassina's "armchair CEO" status is specious, at best.
Link starts the game as a man, gets the holy living dogsnot whipped out of him by Gannon, say about halfway through the game, and needs to regain his childhood in order to defeat him because his life became too complex and the confusion in his heart stops him from having the courage to win.
Now THAT would be awesome. PA has it right, this whole cult of generic antihero shit has gotten fucking old and cliche. It's about high time somebody kicked that shit right in the fucking beanbag.
As usual, Cassamassina's "armchair CEO" status is specious, at best.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Christberg said:
amen!
Mega Man's Electric Sheep
Member
"With the exception of Majoras Mask, I agree."
I was really disappointed with MM's story actually. Such an unbelievably cool and interesting setup, unly to degrade a few hours in to become "go to the 4 blah blahs". The story never really went anywhere until the very end.
Zelda needs to get away from the triforce and Ganon stuff. That's why Majora's Mask was so exhilarating to me at first; it felt so fresh in a series that sometimes feels stagnant.
I was really disappointed with MM's story actually. Such an unbelievably cool and interesting setup, unly to degrade a few hours in to become "go to the 4 blah blahs". The story never really went anywhere until the very end.
Zelda needs to get away from the triforce and Ganon stuff. That's why Majora's Mask was so exhilarating to me at first; it felt so fresh in a series that sometimes feels stagnant.
Rocket Punch
Member
And just like that, altruism and heroism goes out... While you're at it make Zelda a ho with big tattas, oh and make Navi a slut too, instead of "HEY" and "LOOK" have her say. "I'm wet" and "It's so big!"
Tritroid
Member
Well, in terms of a 'fresh' approach to the Zelda story, I think Wind Waker has probably thus far had the most changes.
It took the classic 'Link + Zelda + Ganon = Triforce' story and expanded upon it, all the while making drastic alterations. The Master Sword losing its power; Hyrule forgotten completely; the Triforce reduced to nothing more than a myth (Triforks, lolz).
And I think with Aonuma taking charge of the franchise, we'll probably see that a lot more in post-Wind Waker titles. I expect Zelda 05 to take a different approach to the classic story all together.
Frankly, I've always thought the idea of a fourth triforce piece would be pretty cool. One that would fit directly in the center, but considering it's placed upside down, it could repesent a sort of anti-effect on how the Triforce usually works. Or, it could be the key behind possessing the True Force, which was mentioned in LttP, but never actually seen or expanded upon.
With a fourth piece, it would really mix things up. We'd get a new Triforce attribute, a completely new plot, and an entirely new character that would tied to Zelda, Link, and Ganon.
It took the classic 'Link + Zelda + Ganon = Triforce' story and expanded upon it, all the while making drastic alterations. The Master Sword losing its power; Hyrule forgotten completely; the Triforce reduced to nothing more than a myth (Triforks, lolz).
And I think with Aonuma taking charge of the franchise, we'll probably see that a lot more in post-Wind Waker titles. I expect Zelda 05 to take a different approach to the classic story all together.
Frankly, I've always thought the idea of a fourth triforce piece would be pretty cool. One that would fit directly in the center, but considering it's placed upside down, it could repesent a sort of anti-effect on how the Triforce usually works. Or, it could be the key behind possessing the True Force, which was mentioned in LttP, but never actually seen or expanded upon.
With a fourth piece, it would really mix things up. We'd get a new Triforce attribute, a completely new plot, and an entirely new character that would tied to Zelda, Link, and Ganon.
SantaC
Member
Tritroid said:
Good ideas. What Zelda needs is a villian that is more evil than Ganon.(ganondorf)
Other end bosses than Ganon has been incredible weak imo. Only Ganon has made a presence when it comes to Zelda villians.
So when Link takes out Ganon, another Boss more dangerous await that even Ganon feared.
Gaia Theory
Member
Matt pretty much says that he wants Nintendo to cheap out and turn Zelda into Jak.
Isn't Jak just the cutest anti-hero? I liked him better when he was a human crash bandicoot wanna-be that for some reason twirled around just like the 'coot breaking explosive boxes.
The idea about Link being a grown up and having too complex emotions to deal with the problems at hand is interesting. The idea of NEEDING to be a child to defeat the evil good be developed into something quite unique story wise.
Isn't Jak just the cutest anti-hero? I liked him better when he was a human crash bandicoot wanna-be that for some reason twirled around just like the 'coot breaking explosive boxes.
The idea about Link being a grown up and having too complex emotions to deal with the problems at hand is interesting. The idea of NEEDING to be a child to defeat the evil good be developed into something quite unique story wise.
Gaia Theory said:
Ocarina time dealt with this a little bit. What was the temple where you could turn from child to adult and back again as needed? Am I making this up? Sometimes you need to be a child, and sometimes you need to be an adult. Pretty much ALL Zelda games deal with time, aging, and destiny, so I wouldn't be surprised if they worked with those themes again.
Tritroid
Member
The Spirit Temple required you to basically perform two different quests; One as a child, one as an adult.rawk said:
I frankly think the time theme has been done to death. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask basically covered most of what could be done with the concept. I think it's time to move on to something else entirely.
In terms of gameplay, Zelda has yet to focus on anything that's air/flight based.
Late Stage Marxist
Member
:lolSantaCruZer said:
We should have a contest ... "Who can come up with a more dipshit idea than Matt for the new Zelda game?"
Here's mine. Ganon has control over most of the lower east side and you're some unknown thug, making package runs for Don Lon Lon... wait, I think that's already been done.
Here's mine. Ganon has control over most of the lower east side and you're some unknown thug, making package runs for Don Lon Lon... wait, I think that's already been done.
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