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[FoneBone]

Sorry I couldn't think of a more original title for this thread. Oh, well. I can't say I've been following the X-books, but, from what I know about Morrison's run... yeah, this sucks. Retconning at its worst.

(Thanks to Bart P. on Millarworld for the link.)

 

[DarienA]

Imposter WTF?!??!?!?! Oh good lord....

 

[G4life98]

hopefully he can clean the stench of austen off of nightcrawler now.

 

[BuddyC]

yea, i saw this earlier today.

my reaction was something like:

oh.

fuck.

them.

but then I read SeaGuy, and everything was okay.

 

[nomoment]

Haha. I saw that this morning at work. Needless to say, it was pretty laughable.

Now resurrect Colossus already, Marvel!!

 

[Willco]

Haha. I saw that this morning at work. Needless to say, it was pretty laughable.

Now resurrect Colossus already, Marvel!!

NO.

 

[nomoment]

NO.

Dude, yes.

Kitty Pryde hasn't been the same without him. And this'll give Marvel an excuse to boot Juggernaut off the X-Men. Juggernaut joining the X-Men was like... #187810489 of the dumb things that happened during Austen's run.

 

[Bowser]

Imposter?

...

BWAHAHAHAHA!

 

[bishoptl]

What is "retconning", for those of us not in the know regarding comic book "street" lingo?

 

[fart]

retroactively contradicting

 

[BuddyC]

retroactively contradicting

basically, taking something someone else did and explaining it away by changing the circumstances regarding it after the fact.

for example, having wolverine chop off magneto's head, only to later say it was an imposter.

 

[JackFrost2012]

Like I care what people say or do.

X-Men ended with New X-Men #154 in my book - the storyline was wonderful and self-contained, and anything other people try to do afterwards to "fix" it just bounces off of my uncaring self.

Also, Seaguy!!!

 

[8bit]

Mickey Eye!

 

[JackFrost2012]

Mickey Eye!

WHEN YOU LIVE AND WHEN YOU DIE! MICKEY EYE!

 

[BuddyC]

XOO!

 

[MC Safety]

Just a really neat digression, but I used to interview Grant Morrison now and again when I worked for Wizard: The Comics Magazine. After each interview, I had to take the tape with my questions and his answers to Scott Beatty, the ToyFare editor. Beatty, among other things, was highly skilled in deciphering and translating Morrison's Scottish accent.

The odd thing was, either I fully understood Morrison on the phone but not on the tape or I pretended to understand him and made it through a bunch of interviews without a hitch.

Actually, it wasn't a neat digression. Apologies all around.

I had high hopes for Grant Morrison's run on X-Men. Sigh.

Maybe Claremont's third stint on X-Men will be better than his second.

 

[OmniGamer]

retroactively contradicting

Retroactive continuity...but yeah, that's often what it ends up being also(*Cough*Phoenix being some retarded cosmic clone crap*PicksUpGunAndTakesAimAtThePricksWhoThoughtOfThatCrapUpCough*)

 

[Dead]

"your imposter told me his second mutation was to always come back from the dead"

oh my god are they serious?!?! ROFL

 

[Chesapeake Silt]

Grant Morrison.... now DC exclusive until the end of the universe.

 

[Willco]

Dude, yes.

Kitty Pryde hasn't been the same without him. And this'll give Marvel an excuse to boot Juggernaut off the X-Men. Juggernaut joining the X-Men was like... #187810489 of the dumb things that happened during Austen's run.

No. NO. NO!

Kitty Pryde shouldn't be the same without him. They were pseudo-lovers and he is dead. I'd imagine if someone I loved was dead, I would probably not be the same either! Because he is dead.

And don't have him return from the grave, the only significant X-Men to completely die off in a bazillion years, to correct a stupid mistake. One stupid mistake doesn't deserve another.

This Magneto thing is just awful, though. Fuck you, Claremont.

 

[Willco]

And I'm dead serious, if it wasn't for Bendis and Millar, I'd be like this close to swearing off Marvel. I don't know how they went from being fuckin' awesome to complete shit in the course of two years. It really is sad!

 

[mightynine]

Kitty needs Pete Wisdom again.

For that matter, she needs Warren Ellis writing her again.

 

[FnordChan]

I love the Morrison run of New X-Men as much as the next guy, but come on - no one here can tell me they seriously believed Marvel wouldn't come up with some half-assed reason for Magneto to show up. It's disappointing, but hardly suprising.

Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to Joss Whedon's run on "Astonishing Seaguy", guest starring the Residents!

And, yes, I long for the days of Ellis writing Kitty Pryde shacking up with Pete Wisdom. "To me my X-Men! God, I need a drink."

FnordChan

 

[BuddyC]

I love the Morrison run of New X-Men as much as the next guy, but come on - no one here can tell me they seriously believed Marvel wouldn't come up with some half-assed reason for Magneto to show up. It's disappointing, but hardly suprising.

Yes, but so soon. Couldn't Marvel have gone more than two months without Magneto?

 

[FnordChan]

Yes, but so soon. Couldn't Marvel have gone more than two months without Magneto?

Oh, you know how Marvel is. Always talking about how they only use Magneto in their comics socially, and how they can quit any time. Then you hear that they've writing about Magneto when they're at home alone, but refuse to talk about it. Finally, you see them passed out in the gutter one day, mumbling to themselves about Asteroid M.

Of course, all this happened years ago. It's what lead to this:

Now, if that cover doesn't say "strung out on Magneto", I don't know what does.

FnordChan

 

[belgurdo]

Isn't it about time Xmen...ended?

 

[JackFrost2012]

Isn't it about time Xmen...ended?

Or at least Claremont.

 

[BuddyC]

Oh, you know how Marvel is. Always talking about how they only use Magneto in their comics socially, and how they can quit any time. Then you hear that they've writing about Magneto when they're at home alone, but refuse to talk about it. Finally, you see them passed out in the gutter one day, mumbling to themselves about Asteroid M.

Hahahaha, true...X-Men (Austen) spoiler, for those that care...

Spoiler

Don't forget they've brought Xorn back as a "vessel" to resurrect another character. What? Jean Grey? Noooo...

 

[FnordChan]

Isn't it about time Xmen...ended?

Nah. I mean, if you looked at the X-Men five years ago, you would have asked someone to have the kindess to drag the franchise out back behind the chemical sheds and have it shot. Then Grant Morrison came along and made it completely kick ass for a few, glorious issues, proving there were still wonderful things to be done with our merry band of mutants. So, there are still good X-Men stories waiting to happen; it's the suffering through all the crap that's the problem.

As always, JackFrost is dead right - Claremont really needs to go. Or, at least, the man shouldn't be given one of the main titles to write. Parts of X-Treme X-Men were perfectly decent, despite having the worst title ever. Then you had him some of the main books and things go straight back to hell. Fortunatly, Joss Whedon's run on Astonishing looks to help counter the pain of the Claremont/Austin tag team of doom. Granted, I'm basing this on the strength of a single issue, but boundless optamism is the hallmark of the X-Men fan. Or, perhaps, it's the same mentality that causes battered women to return to their abusive husbands over and over again...

FnordChan, who tripped down the stairs again, I swear

 

[Volt]

You know, I've been reading X-Men for as long as I can remember, but this is really starting to annoy me, to use a very strong euphemism. I didn't even like the revelation that Xorn was Magneto (honestly : it makes no sense whatsoever, not sure where Morrison got that idea from), and now even THAT death is being retconned. Marvel is getting less and less of my money, especially with the current "back to the nineties" vibe they're trying to instigate.

The only decent Marvel comics I still read without basically yelling "gee THAT sucked" after the final page :

* Daredevil (numero uno for me)
* The Pulse
* The Punisher (this amazes me also)
* District X
* Runaways
* Powers (although it'll never be an Marvel title of course)
* X-Statix (Milligan is on automatic pilot lately though..)

And I noticed that August and September will yield another 20 or so new Marvel title !! 2099 Versions of several MK comics, mini-series with Jubilee, Dr.Strange, Hulk/Thing, Gambit etc etc... And of course : Warren Ellis returning to superhero comics and Marvel... not sure what to think about that..

 

[BuddyC]

You know, I've been reading X-Men for as long as I can remember, but this is really starting to annoy me, to use a very strong euphemism. I didn't even like the revelation that Xorn was Magneto (honestly : it makes no sense whatsoever, not sure where Morrison got that idea from), and now even THAT death is being retconned. Marvel is getting less and less of my money, especially with the current "back to the nineties" vibe they're trying to instigate.

I've been recently re-reading Morrison's run on X-Men, and the Xorn -> Magneto thing was hinted at throughout the run. Yes, at some point, they rescue a mutant named Xorn from his Chinese prison...but then they leave him and pick him up later.

Xorn's knowledge of the Mansion he had never been to (required to go throught he Shi'ar portal), the slaughter of U-Men, picking up the metal concrete truck, the hints were there, but subtle. Even Xorn's diary had sprinklings of Magneto's philosophies behind them. It was a brilliant twist, and served only to reinforce the theme that "the enemy is inside."

Morrison had always planned to have Xorn be Magneto, it's quite evident if you can get your hands on a copy of the Morrison Manifesto, the original treatment Morrison presented to Marvel before beginning his run. It's in the back of New X-Men hardcover Vol. 1.

You can still think it was a stupid twist, I just wanted to make sure you had all of the facts

 

[Volt]

You can still think it was a stupid twist, I just wanted to make sure you had all of the facts

Well you may be right, I haven't read the Manifesto (it's probably up on his website, but after my Invisibles fascination kinda wore off, I haven't visited it ). On the other hand, isn't Xorn/Magneto shown using some kind of healing power well after moving into and becoming on of the teachers at the Xavier Institute ? That's not one of Magneto's (or... his "impostor's") powers, is it ? I'm a huge Morrison fan, but somehow the whole ending to his Xorn story-arc never sat well with me. And don't get me started on the "100 years in the future" final arc :s Really disappointing to me...

 

[BuddyC]

Well you may be right, I haven't read the Manifesto (it's probably up on his website, but after my Invisibles fascination kinda wore off, I haven't visited it ). On the other hand, isn't Xorn/Magneto shown using some kind of healing power well after moving into and becoming on of the teachers at the Xavier Institute ? That's not one of Magneto's (or... his "impostor's") powers, is it ? I'm a huge Morrison fan, but somehow the whole ending to his Xorn story-arc never sat well with me. And don't get me started on the "100 years in the future" final arc :s Really disappointing to me...

Not that I can recall. The healing of the X-Men was really just deactivating the micro-sentinels. When Cyclops goes to get Xorn, it shows him "healing" a bird, though there are a variety of explanations to that. I'll put the corresponding bit of the Manifesto up once I get home.

i suggest checking out these threads:
http://www.barbelith.com/topic/13918
http://www.barbelith.com/topic/16617

 

[Volt]

Not that I can recall. The healing of the X-Men was really just deactivating the micro-sentinels. When Cyclops goes to get Xorn, it shows him "healing" a bird, though there are a variety of explanations to that. I'll put the corresponding bit of the Manifesto up once I get home.

Hey thanks, that would be most kind
I generally liked Morrison's run on NewXmeN though, it got me excited with the comic again, and the first couple of story arcs were amazing. Too bad the Quitely/Morrison team couldn't just take more time to produce the book the way they envisioned it from the start, damn you monthly publications !
Oh well, I'll look forward to their WE3 and hope it redeems Grant a bit after the kinda... overblown intentions displayed in The Filth. Oh Seaguy does rock of course

 

[OmniGamer]

Yeah, the "healing" thing was just a coverup...he never really healed anybody or anything. The bird could have been animated magnetically(using the tired and scientifically false iron-in-bloodstream trick), and he didn't heal the X-Men at the end of Imperial, he simple killed the nanosentinels, and he didn't heal Xavier, he relocated the nanosentinels from his bloodstream to his spinal cord, fusing it(until he later disabled them). Also, after Quentin Quire ODs on Kick, and his brain cells are converting to "faster than light" energy, he begins to see through time, and says to Xavier, "what if you were wrong, what if the enemy is within" or something like that, and Xorn claims that he can't heal Quentin, but he can help him go on to his next form, and next thing you know, he's dead. Pretty convinient to shut the boy up as he mentions a threat from within.

This isn't all bad however, because "Planet X" Magneto was, to a lot of Magneto fans, a complete screw up on his character. P-X Magneto was very "off", like a generic crazy old man instead Claremont's multi-faceted Magneto. And imposter indeed.

 

[jarrod]

Speaking of facts, before anyone starts demanding Claremont's head on a pike, they should probably know the return of Magneto (and Xorn for that matter) was an editorial mandate from the higher ups. No doubt we' see Jean again too in time for the next film.

As for Claremont, I've really been enjoying his run on Uncanny with Davis so far, nothing revolutionary but solid fun none the less. And it's always nice to see Rachel around. Haven't checked out Exclaibur yet, but based on the few previews I've seen don't think I'll bother... never was big on Xavier himself.

I can't help but feel people who criticize Claremeont for not being Morrison are sort of missing the point though. In fact they're no better than the dinosaurs that jumped on Morrison for trying something else...

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

AND PEOPLE KNOCK ME FOR READING DC. yeeesh.............

 

[BuddyC]

...says to Xavier, "what if you were wrong, what if the enemy is within" or something like that, and Xorn claims that he can't heal Quentin, but he can help him go on to his next form, and next thing you know, he's dead. Pretty convinient to shut the boy up as he mentions a threat from within.

This isn't all bad however, because "Planet X" Magneto was, to a lot of Magneto fans, a complete screw up on his character. P-X Magneto was very "off", like a generic crazy old man instead Claremont's multi-faceted Magneto. And imposter indeed.

That's actually a dual reference, both to Magento being Xorn and Sublime being within all humans.

 

[OmniGamer]

That's actually a dual reference, both to Magento being Xorn and Sublime being within all humans.

True, but i was keeping things thread-specific, plus the scene involved "Xorn", and was one of the moments that called his pacifist persona into question(along with the U-Men incident).

Anywho, here's a joke post I made on a Jean forum about the situation

Jean is Xorn And Maddie is Jean

Jean's TK could have easily mimicked Xorn's "Gravitation" powers(which were supposed to have been mimicking Magneto's Magnetism). And Maddie as Jean explains her going all psycho-bitch on Emma for messing with Scott(like how she was furious at Jean when Scott left her), as well as her crazy "demonic" looking Phoenix outfit 150 years in the future. Oh, and it also explains "Magneto/Xorn"(Jean) killing Jean(Maddie) for "spite".

 

[jarrod]

Magneto's been "off" the past decade. The Planet X depiction was just more of the same.

 

[BuddyC]

True, but i was keeping things thread-specific, plus the scene involved "Xorn", and was one of the moments that called his pacifist persona into question(along with the U-Men incident).

Anywho, here's a joke post I made on a Jean forum about the situation

Uh, spoiler for the next year of Auten's X-Men or so, but your joke is pretty damn close to the truth.

Spoiler

The return of Xorn is just a "vessel" in the resurrection of Jean Grey. Seriously.

 

[Willco]

Uh, spoiler for the next year of Auten's X-Men or so, but your joke is pretty damn close to the truth.

Spoiler

The return of Xorn is just a "vessel" in the resurrection of Jean Grey. Seriously.

SO WAIT...

Spoiler

DOES JEAN COME BACK WITH A PENIS?

WHAT THE GAY?

 

[BuddyC]

What I read was...

Spoiler

The character of "Xorn" is being used as a vessel to resurrect a fallen X-Men character within the next year. Marvel's eager to get Jean Grey back, as the editors are trying to 'normalize' Magneto and return status quo before the next X movie.

 

[OmniGamer]

Well i'll be a son of a weather witch....Marvel really is run by a bunch of fanboys

I just want my Jean back...Morrison was doing some great things with her, HCT aside.(Though kudos for further erasing the bad cosmic entity retcon...

Spoiler

Jean's black bubble Phoenix "voice" being from her future self, and not a cosmic crow, is genious).

 

[nomoment]

Whoa, whoa. Lotsa Claremont hatin' in this thread.

Yeah, Claremont's last run on Uncanny really sucked. His entire XXM was laughable, and his first issue of Excalibur was lukewarm at best, but, his most recent run on Uncanny X-Men is AMAZING. Issues #444 and #445 have been pretty amazing - consisting of the best elements of classic Claremont, without all the unnecessary expository text. Buy it, it's good.

And regarding this Magneto retcon, it's clearly an editorial mandate. After Morrison left, there was clearly a need to tighten up the X-Universe, and re-establish the norm. They've done it. And I think (hope) there'll be a more throughout explanation of Magneto's 'imposter' in the following few issues of Excalibur.

 

[Volt]

What I read was...

Spoiler

The character of "Xorn" is being used as a vessel to resurrect a fallen X-Men character within the next year. Marvel's eager to get Jean Grey back, as the editors are trying to 'normalize' Magneto and return status quo before the next X movie.

So, they're gonna use the same guy twice for the same, lazy, lousy retconning ? Gee I really hope that's just a rumor.

BTW Omnigamer : nice analysis of what Xorn's deceptions were, it really made me appreciate that plotline a bit more, so I guess I need to reread it all now

About Claremont : I think they only got away with reinstating him because of two factors.
1) The fact that he brought Alan Davis on pencils with him and 2) We finally got rid of Austen of Uncanny
Uncanny so far was pretty much ok, nothing special. The baseball scene at the beginning of the first Claremont issue was a bit too stereotypical, and the sudden jump back to bright shiny uniforms make little sense, even with the XSE thing. The Fury returning is a bit of an odd choice, IMO.. And reviving Magneto well... did they ever bother explaining how he survived the Sentinel assault on Genosha ? They haven't even explained his previous survival/ressurection, and they've already created a new one.. Don't much care for that kind of storytelling.

 

[jarrod]

No. NO. NO!

Kitty Pryde shouldn't be the same without him. They were pseudo-lovers and he is dead. I'd imagine if someone I loved was dead, I would probably not be the same either! Because he is dead.

Pitor's a pedo anyway, good riddance.

Kitty needs Pete Wisdom again.

Naw, I'd rather see her get cozy with Shan again.

2) We finally got rid of Austen of Uncanny

He recently quit X-Men too. *happy dance* I'm hoping against hope Peter David takes over and tries to salvage Lorna and Alex's characters.

and the sudden jump back to bright shiny uniforms make little sense,

Another editorial mandate I'm afraid. Also, Wolverine, Marvel Girl and Nightcrawler's costumes were handed down from above too. Davis got to design Storm (hers is actually an old Davis design), Sage, Bishop and Cannonball's outfits but didn't get to choose colors (hence Cannonball's red & orange).

The Fury returning is a bit of an odd choice, IMO..

Claremont's been wanting to do this story since 1987/88 (it was his original setup for the Mutant Massacre)... it's been a long time coming.

 

[Volt]

He recently quit X-Men too. *happy dance* I'm hoping against hope Peter David takes over and tries to salvage Lorna and Alex's characters.

Well, I would like that too, especially as he's all set up to revive/salvage Madrox, Wolfsbane and Strong Guy over in MADROX (starting in September) too ! It's the season of revivals, apparently. Too bad that includes X-Force, you know... I liked 'em when I was twelve when it first came out, but today ? Erm no thanks..

 

[jarrod]

Well, I would like that too, especially as he's all set up to revive/salvage Madrox, Wolfsbane and Strong Guy over in MADROX (starting in September) too ! It's the season of revivals, apparently. Too bad that includes X-Force, you know... I liked 'em when I was twelve when it first came out, but today ? Erm no thanks..

I'm psyched for Madrox, David's X-Factor was amazing back in the day. And yeah the X-Force revival makes me shiver... only time I liked that book was during the road trip and afterwards in San Fran. Besides, with all the old New Mutants showing up at the mansion (and Cable busy in his own book with Deadpool), what's the point?

 

[jiggle]

Jeez, all the dead x-men, from the time I stopped reading, are getting revived...

Is Psylocke back yet? I'd imagine they'll revive Collosus if he plays a bigger part in X3.

No way they'll be able to find an excuse to bring back Pyro I bet.