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In the year 2004, Grant Morrison fans will kill Chris Claremont

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Volt

Member
jarrod said:
I'm psyched for Madrox, David's X-Factor was amazing back in the day. And yeah the X-Force revival makes me shiver... only time I liked that book was during the road trip and afterwards in San Fran. Besides, with all the old New Mutants showing up at the mansion (and Cable busy in his own book with Deadpool), what's the point?

Getting Liefeld and Nicieza a steady paycheck ? :)
You're right I liked the Moore/Pollina issues as well, and the final parts with Ellis (and the return of Pete Wisdom) weren't bad either. X-Force was kinda a precursor to The Authority, in hindsight (but with a lamer set of superheroes). They even had the gay couple thing pegged waaaaay before Midnighter/Apollo with Shatterstar/Rictor :)

Never read X-Factor though, back in the days my brother and I had to decide on which titles to start reading (when we discovered a comic shop here in Belgium that actually imported them) and we went for X-Men and X-Force. The Peter David X-Factor will probably always remain a mystery to me.. :)
 

jarrod

Banned
Volt said:
Getting Liefeld and Nicieza a steady paycheck ? :)
You're right I liked the Moore/Pollina issues as well, and the final parts with Ellis (and the return of Pete Wisdom) weren't bad either. X-Force was kinda a precursor to The Authority, in hindsight (but with a lamer set of superheroes). They even had the gay couple thing pegged waaaaay before Midnighter/Apollo with Shatterstar/Rictor :)
Yeah, I liked the Ellis stuff too (even if almost everyone else hated it) and I definitely see The Authority parallels. Too bad Shatterstar seems to be returning without Ric though. :/


Volt said:
Never read X-Factor though, back in the days my brother and I had to decide on which titles to start reading (when we discovered a comic shop here in Belgium that actually imported them) and we went for X-Men and X-Force. The Peter David X-Factor will probably always remain a mystery to me.. :)
Heh, should've gone with X-Factor and Excalibur. :)

X-Factor was great back then, essentially doing what Storm's XSE is suppossed to be doing now in having a givernment sanctioned X-Team. Characterization and interplay was great too, not to mention having villians like Mr Sinister's Nasty Boys or The Hell's Belles. I'd really recommend picking up the David/Stroman stuff if you come across it.
 

Volt

Member
jarrod said:
Heh, should've gone with X-Factor and Excalibur. :)

X-Factor was great back then, essentially doing what Storm's XSE is suppossed to be doing now in having a givernment sanctioned X-Team. Characterization and interplay was great too, not to mention having villians like Mr Sinister's Nasty Boys or The Hell's Belles. I'd really recommend picking up the David/Stroman stuff if you come across it.

I had a chance to buy an X-Factor collection a while back, on eBay, but in the end didn't go for it because it had quite a few holes in it, and I'm not really interested in the Classic X-Men X-Factor team (with Jean and Scott etc), of which I've read several issues in the X-Tinction Agenda TP, which didn't really impress me. I'm way more interested in the Havok team, which looked like it was sth completely different from the other X-books.

What about Excalibur ? Any recommended story arcs I could pick up and read without having too much preconscience of what went on before ? I've read just about every Uncanny since #1, but Excalibur (never being translated in Dutch) is something I completely managed to miss. I heard the Ellis issues were pretty good ?
 

jarrod

Banned
There's a ton of fantastic Excalibur stuff. The Initial Claremeont/Davis run (#1-24 iirc) is delightful, and a good canidate Claremont's best work ever. All high quality reading with Warwolves, Juggernaut, Inferno, the Crazy Gang and the Cross-Time Caper (though it does drag a little towards the end). Humorous superhorics at their best.

Davis' return to the book later on (#42-67 iirc) was almost as good, and really tied any loose ends up well (especially the first epic arc). Cerise, Kylun and Feron were good additions also (especially in face of the angsty mutant era the other X-Books found themselves in), and the Psylocke/murder mystery and Days of Future Yet to Come stories were particularly clever.

And finally, yeah the Warren Ellis run (#83-103) was pretty good too. He actually advanced the characters (Kitty, Meggan & Kurt mainly), gave the team a more proactive focus, brought in Wolfbane/Colossus/Douglocke and introduced Pete Wisdom (possibly the best X-Character to turn up in the 1990s). Pretty great art too with Carlos Pacheco, Terry Dodson, Casey Jones and some others filling in.
 

FnordChan

Member
nomoment said:
After Morrison left, there was clearly a need to tighten up the X-Universe, and re-establish the norm.

And here I saw a need to continue working with Morrison's vision for the X-books, if not continue in the exact vein as Morrison (who is admittedly a hard act to follow). Reverting to the Claremont standard is definately not what I would consider necessary.

FnordChan
 

BuddyC

Member
Volt said:
So, they're gonna use the same guy twice for the same, lazy, lousy retconning ? Gee I really hope that's just a rumor.

BTW Omnigamer : nice analysis of what Xorn's deceptions were, it really made me appreciate that plotline a bit more, so I guess I need to reread it all now :)

i read it on barbelith, where it was posted from another board. one of austen's friends said that (same spoiler that was in my other two posts)
xorn is just being used to resurrect another x-person
, and insinuated that this is an editorial mandate. normally, i'd throw this out the window, but this gal has spilled the beans multiple times before, all correct.
 

jarrod

Banned
FnordChan said:
And here I saw a need to continue working with Morrison's vision for the X-books, if not continue in the exact vein as Morrison (who is admittedly a hard act to follow). Reverting to the Claremont standard is definately not what I would consider necessary.

FnordChan
Should that responsibility fall on Claremont's shoulders though? After all, he's just continuing what he was doing previously in X-Treme, only his dialogue and pacing has improved dramatically now with Alan Davis (the two have a great synergy). Shouldn't the "progressive direction" of the X-Line be dictated by the superstar writer du jour they signed up (which would be Whedon now) rather than the old writer who's just doing what he can?
 

FnordChan

Member
jarrod said:
Should that responsibility fall on Claremont's shoulders though?

No, ideally it would have fallen on Marvel editorial's shoulders, and they would have found someone suited to taking Morrison's run and running with it. Instead, they reverted to the Claremont standard. I don't have much against the guy, and some of his recent comics work has been perfectly decent, but I would have much rather seen the line continue to go with what Morrison set up. Am I suprised that they didn't? Hell, I'm not even particularly disappointed, as my hopes weren't exactly way up there to begin with. It's still a shame.

FnordChan
 

jarrod

Banned
Well there's always a chance the new X-Men writer to replace Austin could shake things up. Milligan is the current speculation favorite, but even Ellis has been mentioned as a possibility. Either would be a good counter to Claremont/Whedon imo, though I'm still holding out for Peter David...
 
If what I'm hearing about Xorn is true, well, hell.

I need to go drag my ass into the comic store and pick up all these issues of X-Men I'd said I'd pick up and have yet to do so. Especially since Claremont apparently is hitting a groove once again.

But if Ellis did X-Men...holy crap, my head would explode. In happiness, mind you. Peter David would be a nice pick too, especially since he's dipping his toe back into the X-Universe with the Maddox series.
 
FnordChan said:
No, ideally it would have fallen on Marvel editorial's shoulders, and they would have found someone suited to taking Morrison's run and running with it. Instead, they reverted to the Claremont standard. I don't have much against the guy, and some of his recent comics work has been perfectly decent, but I would have much rather seen the line continue to go with what Morrison set up. Am I suprised that they didn't? Hell, I'm not even particularly disappointed, as my hopes weren't exactly way up there to begin with. It's still a shame.

FnordChan

Agreed. How must Morrison think that he did all that work that Marvel editorial is now apparently gleefully retconning out of existence, while selling TPBs of the work (and now I wonder how long those are going to stay in print before they just shuffle them under the rug)?
 
If I remember correctly Morrison did the same thing to his predecessor when he brought Mags back from the dead 1 issue later.

Tables turn, eh?
 

BuddyC

Member
krypt0nian said:
If I remember correctly Morrison did the same thing to his predecessor when he brought Mags back from the dead 1 issue later.

Tables turn, eh?

what?

Magneto was never appeared in New X-Men until he was revealed to be Xorn. He was one of the assumed casualities of the Genosha slaughter that occured in Morrison's first issue on NXM.
 

Bowser

Member
Magneto died in the concluding issue of the Eve of Destruction storyline (X-Men #113) when Wolverine stuck his claws into him.
 
BuddyChrist83 said:
what?

Magneto was never appeared in New X-Men until he was revealed to be Xorn. He was one of the assumed casualities of the Genosha slaughter that occured in Morrison's first issue on NXM.

Magneto never phsically appeared no, but he was revealed to have been behind everything that happened in New X-Men. He was just "killed" and then brought back in one issue.
 
Bowser said:
Magneto died in the Eve of Destruction storyline when Wolverine stuck his claws into him apparently.


Exactly! But because this is the newly sacrosanct Morrison, the world has stopped. No biggie! Its just comics - it happens all the time.

And considering the x-men owe their popularity and exisitence in some cases, to Claremont, I'd consider his "retcon" a better fit.
 

Bowser

Member
Having defeated Magneto (and telepathically shut his powers off while his guard was down), the X-Men do the usual "And here's how we did it" speech, only for Wolverine to stab Magneto with his claws. What follows is decidedly curious.

Given the way in which this issue was promoted, this is presumably meant to be the shocking death of Magneto. Everyone reacts in a mildly appalled way for a whole one panel, and then Professor X delivers a speech to the assembled Genoshans about how we all really ought to hug one another more often. The X-Men then go home.

I don't normally do the fanboy routine of calling for a story to be reversed, but as the death of a major character who's been around since 1963, this is about as ineffectual as you can get. Interestingly, the actual script of the issue never clarifies that he's dead, leading me to suspect that the issue has already been marked for retconning. Of course, if he's not dead, it leaves it even less clear how the X-Men are supposed to have resolved the central conflict.

http://thexaxis.com/reviews/290401.html#x-men
 

BuddyC

Member
krypt0nian said:
Magneto never phsically appeared no, but he was revealed to have been behind everything that happened in New X-Men.
No, he wasn't. Mags was only being manipulated by Sublime.
 

BuddyC

Member
As for Morrison's retconning of Lobdell -

Mags didn't appear in #114. He didn't appear in #115 during the slaughter, though he was among the presumed dead. The character of Xorn was first introduced in the 2001 annual, and Xorn didn't even appear in the regular New X-Men until almost a year after Morrison took over. Even then, he wasn't revealed to be Magneto until #146. Until then, Morrison had written an original character instead of Magneto.

The death of Mags in #113 was standard Marvel fare, with an easy loophole and the death not even truly acknowledged in the script. Meanwhile, Morrison's execution of Mags in #150 was quite final - a decapitation.

Meanwhile, this go around, Claremont comes right out and says "Hey, he's not dead. It was an imposter" and goes back to featuring Magneto, himself, as a major character instantly. Everyone expected this, and truthfully it comes as no shock, but it was a pipe dream that Mags would stay dead.

Hell, I wouldn't even care if Excalibur was well written or remotely interesting.

Retconning is a fact of life in the Marvel universe. What really matters is the strength of the story being told, and frankly, I found Morrison's NXM run to be the bastion of hope in the X lineup.

If we're going to play the review game, go ahead and check how The Axis reviewed Morrison's inital issue, or when he killed Mags (#150) and compare that to Lobdell's run.

Again, I really don't care what happens as long as an interesting story is told. Morrison did that. Austen and Claremont....haven't thus far.
 

Volt

Member
Man, I'm gonna miss Morrison on X-Men. He really raised the bar on what these characters could say and do, and know they just went back to tradition and run off the mill storylines and dialogues.
Milligan taking over NewXmeN after Morrison left would've been the only viable option for a real replacement. The current wave of "retro" X-Men really just doesn't appeal to me anymore : I get the feeling I've already read these stories a dozen times before. And when you start analyzing them... you realize you actually DID read sth very similar before. :(

I hope Whedon well do sth interesting (issue one wasn't bad but erm.. well compare it to Morrison's first issue to find out how it could possibly be done) on Astonishing, I just wished they didn't have to create yet another new title for him. They might as well have just fired Austen immediately and put Whedon and Cassaday on the adjectiveless X-Men..
 
BuddyChrist83 said:
As for Morrison's retconning of Lobdell -

Mags didn't appear in #114. He didn't appear in #115 during the slaughter, though he was among the presumed dead. The character of Xorn was first introduced in the 2001 annual, and Xorn didn't even appear in the regular New X-Men until almost a year after Morrison took over. Even then, he wasn't revealed to be Magneto until #146. Until then, Morrison had written an original character instead of Magneto.

The death of Mags in #113 was standard Marvel fare, with an easy loophole and the death not even truly acknowledged in the script. Meanwhile, Morrison's execution of Mags in #150 was quite final - a decapitation.

Meanwhile, this go around, Claremont comes right out and says "Hey, he's not dead. It was an imposter" and goes back to featuring Magneto, himself, as a major character instantly. Everyone expected this, and truthfully it comes as no shock, but it was a pipe dream that Mags would stay dead.

Hell, I wouldn't even care if Excalibur was well written or remotely interesting.

Retconning is a fact of life in the Marvel universe. What really matters is the strength of the story being told, and frankly, I found Morrison's NXM run to be the bastion of hope in the X lineup.

If we're going to play the review game, go ahead and check how The Axis reviewed Morrison's inital issue, or when he killed Mags (#150) and compare that to Lobdell's run.

Again, I really don't care what happens as long as an interesting story is told. Morrison did that. Austen and Claremont....haven't thus far.


We're going to have to agree to disagree here. I think Claremont's tightened his writing up and is doing a great job thusfar. Austen I wouldn't piss on if here were on fire.
 

jarrod

Banned
krypt0nian said:
We're going to have to agree to disagree here. I think Claremont's tightened his writing up and is doing a great job thusfar. Austen I wouldn't piss on if here were on fire.
I agree, at least so far as X-Men titles. Claremont's Excalibur work looks a little suspect but his Uncanny stuff is flawless (probably thanks to Alan Davis' strong visual storytelling). Austen's stuff, while no longer painful to read, is still just filler.
 

BuddyC

Member
krypt0nian said:
We're going to have to agree to disagree here. I think Claremont's tightened his writing up and is doing a great job thusfar. Austen I wouldn't piss on if here were on fire.

To be fair, I haven't read any of Claremont's recent work beyond Excalibur, but after #1 and the preview for #2, I have zero interest in it. With all this Uncanny praise, I may have to pick up some issues next week though.

We can, however, agree about Austen. I don't care if he's just the editor's monkey, as long as his name appears on that comics, that's his problem.
 
krypt0nian said:
If I remember correctly Morrison did the same thing to his predecessor when he brought Mags back from the dead 1 issue later.

Tables turn, eh?

Apparently now, he didn't. He brought back an imposter. Haven't you read this thread?
 

jarrod

Banned
Well, in all fairness Morisson made his fair share of sloppy mistakes. Off the top of my head there's X-Corps Mumbai (Feral, Proudstar & Thorn working together?... uh...), Crazy Lorna being Magneto's daughter (thanks for that Grant), Sebastain Shaw the telepath and the Hellfire Club a strip joint (not to mention Emma Frost being an ex-stripper)... in fact most of the time Grant's characterizations for "background" X-people was just off the mark (Domino being the lone fantastic exception). Still I liked his run because it dealt with concepts and events pushing things forward, but I also enjoy the character driven style Claremont/Whedon go for. And of course Morisson should be commended for bringing Emma back to the forefront as a smart, sexy, ruthless bitch (after Lobdell tried his hardest to turn her into a denmother) and really breaking up Jean and Scott (hopefully forever).
 

BuddyC

Member
jarrod said:
And of course Morisson should be commended for bringing Emma back to the forefront as a smart, sexy, ruthless bitch (after Lobdell tried his hardest to turn her into a denmother) and really breaking up Jean and Scott (hopefully forever).

bah, they'll be back together in a year.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
>>>Claremont's been wanting to do this story since 1987/88 (it was his original setup for the Mutant Massacre)... <<<

...except that the Mutant Massacre was published in 1985. Uncanny 211 was the first X-Men issue I bought, BTW. I haven't followed X-Men since the early '90s, though.
 

OmniGamer

Member
jarrod said:
Well, in all fairness Morisson made his fair share of sloppy mistakes. Off the top of my head there's X-Corps Mumbai (Feral, Proudstar & Thorn working together?... uh...), Crazy Lorna being Magneto's daughter (thanks for that Grant), Sebastain Shaw the telepath and the Hellfire Club a strip joint (not to mention Emma Frost being an ex-stripper)... in fact most of the time Grant's characterizations for "background" X-people was just off the mark (Domino being the lone fantastic exception). Still I liked his run because it dealt with concepts and events pushing things forward, but I also enjoy the character driven style Claremont/Whedon go for. And of course Morisson should be commended for bringing Emma back to the forefront as a smart, sexy, ruthless bitch (after Lobdell tried his hardest to turn her into a denmother) and really breaking up Jean and Scott (hopefully forever).

I disagree about Emma...for a lot of the time she was a one-liner slinging slut. Pre-affair, she was ok, but once she got into that, she was a leg humping home wrecker. Let's see....one of her "precious" students dies, and right after the funeral, she runs to Scott, seduces his mind with a steamy candle lit psychic bedroom, while saying "Bereavement always fills me with such....lust".

On the other hand, his handling of Jean was great, while I felt his Beast was very off. One of her best and closest friends, and he admonishes her for confronting the princess of plastic, even though he himself warned BOTH of the offending party's as to the danger of their trist, and the fury of Jean's temper? The whole aftermath was sickening, with Emma playing victim and even Logan going to her side.

Splitting Jean and Scott is necessary IMO...i have nothing against them as a couple, as far as their love goes. But I just feel they limit each other. With Jean, Scott always feels he has to be in control, like he has to live up to something all the time, and he's always projecting his fear and power/control issues onto Jean, which causes her to always "rein" herself in, until finally she said screw you and decided to embrace the name and imagery of Phoenix and push her powers further regardless of his fears(UXM circa 354). Eggshell walking, Denmother Jean sucks, which is what Scott causes...and endlessly brooding and projecting Scott sucks, which is what Jean causes. He has issues with her powers and her potential. He's used to the "Marvel Girl" of the 60s he could step in and save the day for.
 

jarrod

Banned
TAJ said:
>>>Claremont's been wanting to do this story since 1987/88 (it was his original setup for the Mutant Massacre)... <<<

...except that the Mutant Massacre was published in 1985. Uncanny 211 was the first X-Men issue I bought, BTW. I haven't followed X-Men since the early '90s, though.
Oops, you're right. Still, Claremont was setting up The Fury to be behind the Mutant Massacre originally, that's why (a sane powerless) Jim Jaspers was at Magneto's trial in the early 200s. Anyway here's an old post I googled up on the matter...

Claremont did bring him back (he was prosecutor at the trial of
Magneto) but Alan Moore put a stop to Claremont's plans before he
could go anywhere with the story.

The following was posted on the comics international egroup by Phil
Hall:

Oooh, big can of worms... Now as most people know, Alan fell out with
Marvel over the reprinting of Doctor Who strips in the US Doctor Who
editions. Marvel didn't have a reprint royalties set up and Alan
wasn't happy about this. With the rift there and widening, Chris
Claremont, who was unaware of the political problems brewing,
introduced Sir James Jaspers into Uncanny X-Men #200. His intention
was to slowly have the character infiltrate and eventually have a
Jaspers' Warp in this reality (wasn't it retconned out of regular
existence by Alan Davis? I can't remember) with the X-teams as the
main thrust in the line-spanning story. Alan went (so I've been told)
ballistic over the Jaspers appearance and effectively severed any
chance of a reconcilliation. Now, this is where I get a bit hazy for a
while because while I know what I was told, I'm not sure about the
legal implications: there is apparently a glaring difference between
US and UK copyright laws and Marvel's lawyers allegedly recommended to
Marvel that they basically ignore Moore's creations and story ideas.
The legalise would eventually cost Marvel a lot of money and wasted
time and the upshot was they dumped the X-Men: Jaspers' Warp idea.

An old acquaintance of mine interviewed John Romita Jr in FP
Birmingham back in 1985 or 6 for his fanzine KOOKS and JrJr said that
he was "really looking forward to playing with some of the cool
characters that Alans Moore and Davis had created for the Captain
Britain strip. Now quite amazingly, Claremont had intentions of not
only introducing Jaspers, but also the Fury (which at one point was
firmly on the cards as Alan Davis and Mike Collins had basically
resurrected the Fury in Sid's Story and there was more of a haze
around the characters ownership - Mr C might be able to offer more on
this) and the Special Executive. We all know that the SE became the
Technet, but what happened to the Fury? (More later)

Romita also said that there would be hints and beginnings of subplots
in many of the other Marvel comics, I was out of the loop at the time,
but perhaps others noticed odd things happening in their Marvels
during 1986. I have also heard that Marvel insisted on a reference to
the Jaspers Warp in a post Moore Captain Britain (I think this was
Mike Collins' Sid's Story) and there was also a mention (retconning?)
of the Jaspers' Warp in an early issue of Excalibur (Kylun?) - sorry
it's been ages since I read them and there all in the other loft.

Then Claremont became privy to all the politicking and immediately
rewrote his impending blockbuster and subsequently what Romita hinted
might have been the equivelant of a Marvel Crisis (hot on the heels of
the real one) was laid to rest.

Now, in 1990ish, while I was starting to put what was never my fourth
issue of Mutant Media together, I stumbled across a lot of stuff about
Claremont's and Marvel's plans. I was putting together a column called
something along the lines of Hypotheticals: What might have happened
in Alan Moore's Marvel Universe. Corrin probably has a better memory
than me, I haven't got an issue to hand, but we did toy with the
concept in issue #3 I think.

From what I can remember, the Marvel Jaspers' warp storyline was to
have begun in #200 of X-Men. Jim Jasper was introduced as a bad lad
(English, of course) and the only person on the face of the planet
capable of stopping him instantly, Charles Xavier is exiled back to
space because his cloned body is packing up. The issues went very much
the way they were planned to for six months, but then changes were
made, but originally, from what I gathered, Nimrod, the futuristic
sentinel, living as a Hispanic good bloke in the ghetto was to have
stumbled upon the remains of an entity that enters our reality through
a hole in the STC. Nimrod accidently merges with the Fury and becomes
not only indestructible, but very, very, very, smart and eloquent.
"Doc Doom times a googleplex" was one of the lines I read. Essentially
from this point on, you'll see what did happen in between the cracks
of what didn't:

Romita was leaving the book, so Alan Davis was asked to do it. He
declined because of the restrictions that were becoming apparent even
this early. He also didn't really want the gig at the time. The Mutant
Massacre was to have been commited solely by the Nimrod/Fury hybrid.
He is eventually only stopped by Kitty phasing through him and
disrupting his circuits. However, Kitty, Nightcrawler, Colossus AND a
new character Longshot, were to have been relocated to Muir Island to
work with Captain Britain and his team and for medical attention.
Kitty was always going to be critically injured, as was Nightcrawler.
Colossus was sent as protection and as a perfect foil for Brian
Braddock, who Kitty would develop a crush on.

Mutants, good bad or indifferent began flocking to Xavier's and with
Phoenix II conveniently out of the way and Kitty and Braddock in
Scotland, there were no members to see the parallels with Days of
Future Past or with the Jaspers' Warp. America was in the thralls
(throes :p) of mutant hysteria and Magneto now in charge of the X-Men
has to make some decisions that effect the status quo. Allegiances are
formed with villains and new players, such as Mr Sinister and others
were becoming prominent mutants through their covert ways.

The UN decrees that mutants are a menace and Jaspers meets Nimrod and
subsequently becomes aware he too is a mutant and a pretty powerful
one. Unlike the Jaspers' Warp, these two become allies, or at least
that is what Jaspers' thinks. With reality falling apart and Nimrod
culling mutants, Forge is drawn into battle and what happened in Fall
of the Mutants is essentially what was written, except the big fight
scene was different and the denouement was different. Instead of being
impervious to detection, the mutants who ventured into the Seige
Perilous were returned but with the warps they had undergone (some of
this was used in Inferno as well, proving that writers who can't use
something here will use it there). The X-Men was going to be a much
darker comic and Excalibur the light side. X-Factor and New Mutants
would essentially begin to pick up the pieces and rebuild mutant/human
relations.

And that's all I can remember for those of you still awake now


OmniGamer said:
I disagree about Emma...for a lot of the time she was a one-liner slinging slut. Pre-affair, she was ok, but once she got into that, she was a leg humping home wrecker. Let's see....one of her "precious" students dies, and right after the funeral, she runs to Scott, seduces his mind with a steamy candle lit psychic bedroom, while saying "Bereavement always fills me with such....lust".

On the other hand, his handling of Jean was great, while I felt his Beast was very off. One of her best and closest friends, and he admonishes her for confronting the princess of plastic, even though he himself warned BOTH of the offending party's as to the danger of their trist, and the fury of Jean's temper? The whole aftermath was sickening, with Emma playing victim and even Logan going to her side.

Splitting Jean and Scott is necessary IMO...i have nothing against them as a couple, as far as their love goes. But I just feel they limit each other. With Jean, Scott always feels he has to be in control, like he has to live up to something all the time, and he's always projecting his fear and power/control issues onto Jean, which causes her to always "rein" herself in, until finally she said screw you and decided to embrace the name and imagery of Phoenix and push her powers further regardless of his fears(UXM circa 354). Eggshell walking, Denmother Jean sucks, which is what Scott causes...and endlessly brooding and projecting Scott sucks, which is what Jean causes. He has issues with her powers and her potential. He's used to the "Marvel Girl" of the 60s he could step in and save the day for.
I'd agree with all that, but I also sort of like Scott and Emma coupled. They're both rather weak in ways that compliment and I like the tension the whole situation pushes on the rest of the X-Men (Logan and Rachel specifically). If/when Jean returns, hopefully she doesn't rush back to Scott's side... she's far better on her own.
 
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