Werewolf Jones
Member
Maybe stop relying on Hollywood for entertainment?
It's much worse in the UK, with the new BFI rules.
Basically only white straight men can be evil, and you can't harm women. There is even a rule against using people with scars on their face as bad guys
Art is dead.
That's just fan service. That scene alone isnt much different than the Cap Thor hammer axe swap. When the ENTIRE film is this stuff, that's when it hits cringe.
Because of this shit, belongs in cringe thread
This thread wins for stupidest thing I’ve read today and that’s saying a lot because I frequent Twitter.
Please don’t go full incel and kill a bunch of women.
That's just fan service. That scene alone isnt much different than the Cap Thor hammer axe swap. When the ENTIRE film is this stuff, that's when it hits cringe.
Cap's scene doesn't raise questions of how only those characters all happened to be around in that exact moment during a big battle though.That's just fan service. That scene alone isnt much different than the Cap Thor hammer axe swap. When the ENTIRE film is this stuff, that's when it hits cringe.
Actually a pretty good example of some better female action hero writing. Not kill bill levels but betterI liked this movie more than I thought
But the GIANT ASS SPACE SHIP that TRAVELLED THROUGH TIME didn't bother you?Cap's scene doesn't raise questions of how only those characters all happened to be around in that exact moment during a big battle though.
Science-fiction and the MCU has shown a lot of magic/fantasy elements throughout the movies so that kind of time/space travelling didn't bother me.But the GIANT ASS SPACE SHIP that TRAVELLED THROUGH TIME didn't bother you?
Where did you get that it broke anything? I just found it forced/silly and a cringe way of showing girl power.Come on. We all know the entire MCU could be decimated by a single half competent artilleryman with a MLRS that could coat the area with anti-personnel munitions. A few 500 pound bombs would do the trick as well. Hell, all of Wakanda could be taken by a single Ranger company still struggling with last night's hangover.
The MCU is stupid, all of it. But out of all that idiocy, that one scene is the thing that broke it for you? They have been building all of those characters for 20 films!
I'll give you Captain "I can punch through an intergalactic battleship but not this meatbag in front of me "Marvel though, just a terrible character.
Interesting point. I'm sure eventually we will get the adventures of Cap A through time.....Or Captain America, where now he'd sit by and let all the bad things he knows about happen again.
Again, you are too focused on the gender of the protagonist. Honestly, how many other male protagonists are written the same way now (ie, no doubt, basically infallible).A man somehow is still allowed to lose and to grow from lost and grief. That is what makes movies interesting and what makes characters relatable. Rambo in first blood was not such an icon, because he was a killer, but because people could identify with this soldier tossed away by society.
But a female lead can never do that, because she is not allowed to lose, which would mean she is weak. We only have strong women in Hollywood. So she also can never lose against a man. Which takes away the stakes, the drama and the opportunity for growth. That is why not even girls bought Rey dolls, because she was boring. She did not inspire anybody.
That is why Stan Lee made Spiderman, a superhero with problems. The whole silver age was about that. Relatable heroes, which made comics the success they were. But the female hero and the minority hero can't have problems, because in the mind of Hollywood and the creators and more importantly Twitter, that would make them look weak. When Black Widow once talked about her past with Bruce Banner, they went crazy.
Because gender is all the matters. Tony Stark could be an arrogant asshole in hist first movie and learn from his mistakes. But only because he is a man.Again, you are too focused on the gender of the protagonist. Honestly, how many other male protagonists are written the same way now (ie, no doubt, basically infallible).
You are shitting me, aren't you?!It's much worse in the UK, with the new BFI rules.
Basically only white straight men can be evil, and you can't harm women. There is even a rule against using people with scars on their face as bad guys
Art is dead.
When the script was developed is meaningless. Most stories are retreads/derivative of something that came long before. The movies you gripe about could be gender swapped, and have the same exact criticism. Your real problem is that you haven't watched a lot of movies. You're dealing with confirmation bias based on the sample size you're working with. If you look around, there are movies with female leads that are written well. There are also lots of women leads not written well. The ratio probably plays out the same or worse for male leads, as there seem to be a larger number of male lead movies, and most of them are trash.Wasn't that movie written in 2015, made in 2017 and shelved for 3 years?
Wonder Woman is just female Superman. This is a DC problem, where they made certain characters way too OP, to the point where there's little that can be done with the characters without driving the fanboys into a fucking rage. Marvel's heroes are generally more fallible, which allows for better story arcs, like Thor and Stark had. By comparison, Steve Rogers' character arc is fairly flat, since his imbued purity didn't allow for much deviation from the boy scout character he is. Don't get me wrong, I love the Cap movies, but I don't think they were great because we got to see the titular character grow as an individual.If you are talking about action movies, you gotta have the hero’s journey. But this arc requires that the hero or heroine have flaws. But that is forbidden by modern politics- you cannot grow if you are already perfect.
Wonder Woman is a good example. She simply needs to lose patience with men so that she can steamroll them. So the film cannot do any realistic character analysis, because the men are simplified beyond recognition, and Wonder Woman is at a point of perfection qualitatively beyond what any human can reach.
When he's not looting sacred ruins, Dylan O'Brien is good in the disturbingly racist American Assassin (I know, it was painting him as somewhat radicalized by the trauma he suffered), and Love and Monsters. Hollywood has tried to make Taylor Kitsch happen, and people just haven't taken to him, much to my chagrin. Ryan Reynolds pivoted nicely from wise-cracking rom-commer to wise-cracking action star, but people only went to see Deadpool. Michael B. Jordan seems to be taking on more action stuff lately. Michael Fassbender could be good, if he hired a new agent to keep him away from terrible movies. Henry Cavil was also in one of my favorite films, Man from UNCLE. Armie Hammer could be something once his weird sex fetish thing blows over.The real question is where are all the cool male personas in Hollywood? All the A-listers are above 50. The Rock is utterly boring and groomed to a dull sheen. John Cena speaks Mandarin. They won’t allow Terry Crews to shine. It’s all so…boring.
Dashing male leads have been a tradition since Douglas Fairbanks, and they’re throwing that all away.
When he's not looting sacred ruins, Dylan O'Brien is good in the disturbingly racist American Assassin (I know, it was painting him as somewhat radicalized by the trauma he suffered), and Love and Monsters. Hollywood has tried to make Taylor Kitsch happen, and people just haven't taken to him, much to my chagrin. Ryan Reynolds pivoted nicely from wise-cracking rom-commer to wise-cracking action star, but people only went to see Deadpool. Michael B. Jordan seems to be taking on more action stuff lately. Michael Fassbender could be good, if he hired a new agent to keep him away from terrible movies. Henry Cavil was also in one of my favorite films, Man from UNCLE. Armie Hammer could be something once his weird sex fetish thing blows over.
There are good male action stars, and some with potential. The issue is there aren't any killer roles like a John McClane or Ethan Hunt to make them stick. American Assassin's Rapp could have been a great character to build around, if he was more likable. As is, I don't know if there's much of an appetite for whatever anti-Islam shit he was on for half that movie. I think they kinda ruined his potential with that obsession.
Chris Hemsworth could be the best thing going for a "youth" movement, if he can hook up with Russo for another round of Tyler Rake. Then again, his nemesis in that film, Saju, had just as much to do with making that movie as epic as it was.
I was going to say, we would if the movie was made by Tarantino. You're right that he's on his way out, but he can't be the only human being who will want to make the movies he wants to make, and not give in to modern political correctness. Somebody will step up to the plate.Would we get a movie today, in which the female protagonist gets shot into the chest with a shotgun by some hillbilly killer working as a bouncer in a strip club? Or would she have to learn from an abusive master, who hates women, especially American women? People like Tarantino are on their way out of Hollywood.
1. Perhaps the one you mentioned can make great films but they are muzzled by the current sociopolitical climates
2. With few exceptions none of them have the larger-than-life charisma of older leading men. I have yet to see any “cool” factor with these younger actors. I like Cavill and Hemsworth but people aren’t going to reminisce about them 30 years from now like Arnie and Sly.
Who would say something like this today?
1. No they're not. Irreverent movies are still made in the same volume today as any before, pandemic-adjusted...of course. You just need to know where to look. Adam Devine has been in a few edgy comedies that I've seen recently. Most movie releases are not major Hollywood films. I watch an unhealthy number of movies (2-3 per day), and I honestly don't see anything that's stifled by the modern climate. Everything in life is shaped by the world around it, but stifled? Nah. That's looking for a problem that doesn't exist IMO.
2. Did you also consider that 30 years ago, people couldn't pull the same shit as 60-70 years ago? Shocking, I know. Would you look back at the 50s to 70s as some romantic time period for film? It's common for people to romanticize the period of time they associate most with their own discovery and youth, but that's not really a universal thing. As a black man, I wouldn't say those early-20th century times were so great. Yet people my parents' age love to wax poetic about "the good old days." Good for who exactly? You get what I'm saying?
Now what does all that mean in the context of this thread? It means that while times change, creativity just finds ways to work within the established norms of the times. No one can do black face anymore. Does that mean creativity has been stifled? Not really. Most of us will look back at that time period as offensive now. Similarly some of the rampant misogyny won't be looked back on so fondly as more time passes.
You don't know how people in the future will look back on Cavill and Hemsworth, because not enough time has elapsed. Some of it might be due to different genres being more popular than back then. Chris Evans, RDJ, and others might be considered the golden era of Hollywood for kids in the future, who have been binging on a decade plus of Marvel movies. As more time passes, the 80s/90s action stars are probably going to be seen as campy actors starring in cheesy paint-by-numbers action flicks that pale in comparison to more sophisticated tales with more impressive visuals. I was a child of the 80s slasher flicks, and I still love a good Hellraiser or Nightmare on Elm Street rerun. However, I won't deny that horror movies are generally better today than those slasher flicked that I loved so much. I personally enjoy watching the art of visual storytelling evolve over time. I don't want to become so cynical that I dismiss the many gems that appear each year, just because I don't sift through enough garbage to find them.
Again, you are focused on the wrong there here.Because gender is all the matters. Tony Stark could be an arrogant asshole in hist first movie and learn from his mistakes. But only because he is a man.
Because of some crazy bullshit character growth in movies is now tied to gender. One is already perfect like Rey, Harley Quinn, Captain Marvel, the other has to learn to make amends and maybe become a more interesting and relatable person. (Tony, Thor, Doctor Strange, ...)
Falcon and the Winter or Wanda soldier are good examples. Look how female characters are treated and then how the men are. Does Carly ever have to change, have any doubts, was she ever called out for what she is? And then look at the male characters, their arc, and how they changed.
Or again, do you think there could be a female version of the Joker movie in today's Hollywood?
Again, you are focused on the wrong there here.
you want better written women. I agree (as well as better writing for men). Or maybe you don’t. I don’t know. It’s your approach to this that is missing the point.
The real shame is that people seem to ignore Sigourney Weaver, Linda Hamilton now. Like these were ideal action templates for women, but of course the current ideology today is unable to show women as anything but perfect. It’s much like real life
She doesn't like you looking at her anymore though.Because I like looking at Scarlett Johansson.
Linda Hamilton was brilliant in T2.
Agreed. But how you argue is just as if not more important than the point you are trying to make.Well, it could be argued that better written characters would mean honest characterization. That is sadly in short supply.
Agreed. But how you argue is just as if not more important than the point you are trying to make.
The thing is… all this “action/super hero” stuff all doesn’t ring true in your subconscious. Not for the fantastical but for the human element.
Eventually this will change as people want entertainment that can speak to them on a real relatable level.
That is a total other can of worms (Ie, over inflated sense of self where they believe themselves “infallable”….. now that is something very interesting to discuss really…. Assuming you are right.)I agree with you, save one point: a lot, if most, people think these characters are “relatable.”
That is a total other can of worms (Ie, over inflated sense of self where they believe themselves “infallable”….. now that is something very interesting to discuss really…. Assuming you are right.)
A man of good taste I see
My wife in latex? Yes please
You get way, way more horrendous big budget action films with third-grade male leads, with zero character development, growth, or decent acting. Just see how many turds Bruce Willis has been pushing out lately. This has fuck-all to do with women.
Is he really in need of the cash?
Movies these days in general are so formulaic or simply poor imitations of old ones. This new age Hollywood female lead is just another predictable formula piled on top of the rest and it's not helping matters.
And your post wins for stupidest thing I’ve read today. Lots of people are making good points - agreeing and disagreeing with OP. And you come up with this shit post.This thread wins for stupidest thing I’ve read today and that’s saying a lot because I frequent Twitter.
Please don’t go full incel and kill a bunch of women.
People wanting well written characters is not being joyless. I mean are people joyless for not liking trash reality TV shows?Some of y'all sound joyless and look at everything through a political lens.
I liked Atomic Blonde. Liked Fury Road. Long.kiss goodnight. TONS of good female lead movies. Right now, it's hard to crack 100 mill opening weekend.
And someone here had the absolute WORST take on the first Wonder Woman movie. Like he is just going off what he HEARD. LOL!