theignoramus
Member
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/10/pakistan-flood-international-aid#
The level of cynicism behind this is astonishing.
The level of cynicism behind this is astonishing.
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India: No aid for Pakistan's flood victims, sends letter of condolence instead
- Thread starter theignoramus
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BertramCooper
Banned
Not surprising, sadly.
Your thread headline...
India: No aid for Pakistan's flood victims, sends letter of condolence instead
...does not match the story
A spokeswoman for the Indian High Commission in London said: "No decision has been taken so far on providing aid or assistance."
Also, the OP article's actual headline is "Pakistan flood toll rises but international aid fails to flow"
After the earthquake that devastated Pakistan-administered Kashmir five years ago, India gave 25 tonnes of food, medicine, tents, blankets and plastic sheets.
India: No aid for Pakistan's flood victims, sends letter of condolence instead
...does not match the story
A spokeswoman for the Indian High Commission in London said: "No decision has been taken so far on providing aid or assistance."
Also, the OP article's actual headline is "Pakistan flood toll rises but international aid fails to flow"
From the article:BertramCooper said:
After the earthquake that devastated Pakistan-administered Kashmir five years ago, India gave 25 tonnes of food, medicine, tents, blankets and plastic sheets.
Also, India is dealing with flooding as well, with roughly 1/9 the casualties of Pakistan (185 and 1600).
This is now the third thread in just the last couple days on the flooding in Pakistan, but there IS flooding elsewhere in the region as well, and not just in India:
China flooding expected to worsen with heavy rains
This is now the third thread in just the last couple days on the flooding in Pakistan, but there IS flooding elsewhere in the region as well, and not just in India:
China flooding expected to worsen with heavy rains
My wife and I discussed this last night becuse of a picture we saw on the front page of the (Canadian) Globe and Mail.
It's sad and as always the Pakistani people suffer for their government's poor decisions but this might be different in a couple ways than other disasters.
Please note these aren't answers. My wife and I were just brainstorming as to why the lack of aid might be happening.
First, this might have been preventable. For decades Pakistan knew that flooding could occur. Plans to build dams, levies, retaining walls and all the rest were drawn up but nothing was acted upon.
Then there is the whole Osama Bin Laden thing. They are still hiding him. As well, Pakistan's porous border has turned Afganistan into a quagmire.
Pakistan has attacked India on a fairly regular basis. Mumbai still angers, no doubt. It might be a great opportunity to mend fences but I think India believes that Pakistan is a shitty neighbour and a poor ally as well. Don't know if I can blame them.
Pakistan's civilian government, it's army, and the ISI are unrepentantly corrupt. Any aid there will be filtered through these institutions and fleeced accordingly.
Muslim/Christian relations are at an all time low. I don't thing the west and europe is feeling charitable right now, especially in this economy.
Donor Fatigue? There have been a lot of bad things happening the world over. Climate Change is starting to smack the fucking shit out of us. Perhaps many think that not everyone can be helped and so those who lose out first are those who are most likely to be our enemies in the years to come.
Maybe it's just a slow start and things will turn around. If not it looks like this is going to be a disaster for the ages.
It's sad and as always the Pakistani people suffer for their government's poor decisions but this might be different in a couple ways than other disasters.
Please note these aren't answers. My wife and I were just brainstorming as to why the lack of aid might be happening.
First, this might have been preventable. For decades Pakistan knew that flooding could occur. Plans to build dams, levies, retaining walls and all the rest were drawn up but nothing was acted upon.
Then there is the whole Osama Bin Laden thing. They are still hiding him. As well, Pakistan's porous border has turned Afganistan into a quagmire.
Pakistan has attacked India on a fairly regular basis. Mumbai still angers, no doubt. It might be a great opportunity to mend fences but I think India believes that Pakistan is a shitty neighbour and a poor ally as well. Don't know if I can blame them.
Pakistan's civilian government, it's army, and the ISI are unrepentantly corrupt. Any aid there will be filtered through these institutions and fleeced accordingly.
Muslim/Christian relations are at an all time low. I don't thing the west and europe is feeling charitable right now, especially in this economy.
Donor Fatigue? There have been a lot of bad things happening the world over. Climate Change is starting to smack the fucking shit out of us. Perhaps many think that not everyone can be helped and so those who lose out first are those who are most likely to be our enemies in the years to come.
Maybe it's just a slow start and things will turn around. If not it looks like this is going to be a disaster for the ages.
theignoramus
Member
No decision has been made because no aid is forthcoming. It doesnt take weeks to deliberate on a decision to send aid.xbhaskarx said:
theignoramus
Member
Why would it send aid to India or China when it appealed to international donors for help? That's like asking why the Haitian government didnt send aid to Chile after its earthquake.xbhaskarx said:
I'm not sure the Chinese government has appealed to any donors for help, since its emergency response teams are probably better prepared to handle the situation.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10937127
CrocMother
Banned
India is a developing country, they have no moral obligation to provide aid from a global point of view.
Sh1ner said:
Search the Kalabagh Dam for more information... Its the ANP and PP who were against the building of this dam. :| Basically it was politics that some cities places will get flooded and other places will not get sufficient water. Overall it was just bad politics. :|
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=29501
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?224846
http://pkpolitics.com/2010/08/10/kal-tak-10-august-2010/
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-n...May-2009/PPP-ANP-opposing-Kalabagh-Dam-Salman
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...s-fly-in-assembly-over-kalabagh-dam-660-hh-08
crimzonflame
Member
Beaulieu said:
I dont think you know shit.
magnificent83
Member
Its not surprising that aid has been slow to come in, remember what the global economic situation is like. Also, with the problems that the floods are also causing in the region, it wouldn't be fair to expect India to start helping Pakistan at the cost of their own people.
Do you expect China to provide Pakistan with help too even though they are faced with their own flood problems?
Do you expect China to provide Pakistan with help too even though they are faced with their own flood problems?
m0ngo said:
Perhaps he meant all international aid and not just India? The article isn't just about India, it's about all international aid, but the OP made the headline India only.
If he did mean India: for some strange reason there is currently not a whole lot of sympathy for Pakistan in India... perhaps because of this: Pakistan admits Mumbai terror attacks were launched from its shores
Beaulieu said:
:lol :lol
CIA World Factbook:
India is predominantly Hindu, but it also has more Muslims than Pakistan. India has the second largest Muslim population in the world, after Indonesia.
crimzonflame
Member
xbhaskarx said:
Not anymore. I just checked wiki and its 3rd now behind Pakistan by about 15 million.
crazy monkey
Banned
IT is very sad if it is true. This attitude is wrong. Officially might not be helping them but i am sure lots of money still will go to Pakistan through relief agency donations.
Dyno said:
Just about all western countries are not Christian but secular. Not only is there a separation between church and state, but the role and importance of the Christian church has diminished to the point where church going Christians are a minority in many western countries. The majority of the population in western/northern Europe do not belong to any religion at all.
You could say "the western world vs the muslim world", but not "christians vs muslims"
SmokyDave said:
It didn't extend to Indonesia after the 2004 tsunami, either:
Tsunami Aid Changed Some Muslims' Attitudes Towards US
After the tsunami, Indonesians saw that that the U.S. and Australia had reacted quickly, while fellow Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia "reacted very slowly, even slower than Japan and China."
Lord you know a country's reputation is in the shitter when unsubstantiated allegations are assumed to be fact.Dyno said:
Pakistan and India haven't been allies since the countries were created and they both attack the other on a regular basis. Accepting Indian views on how Pakistan acts is about as reasonable as accepting Pakistani views on how India acts. There's a great series of youtube videos where former President Musharraf goes to a panel in India and gets grilled by Indian journalists and holds his own against the standard allegations that now are just assumed to be true for some reason. I'd recommend viewing those to get a much better idea of how Pakistani/Indian relations really are. To wit, they've *both* been shitty neighbours to each other and both have tried to undermine each other for a very long time.
Edit: Also
It's bizzare to me that Pakistan keeps getting blamed for making Afghanistan unstable. A few seconds of thought will show that it's the other way around. Afghanistan has been a hell hole since the 1980s and it is Afgani instability that has spread into Pakistan. Also nobody in the world can control the Afghani/Pakistani border as it is now. Not Afghanistan, Not the Allied forces, or Nato, or the UN, and not Pakistan.
Furret said:
I'm pretty sure Saudi Arabia will help.
SmokyDave said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_foreign_assistance
Go to the South Asian section.
ClosingADoor
Member
That big earthquake there was in 2005? Seems like last year or so.
The world has given all its money to Haiti already, can't have more then one big disaster a year it seems.
The world has given all its money to Haiti already, can't have more then one big disaster a year it seems.
Azih said:
C'mon.
I came at this issue from the India point of view because we're talking about them giving aid. I don't endorse India in their border dispute. The point I was trying to make is that this is an opportunity to back away from their current positions but India, after thinking about it, probably came to the conclusion that even if Pakistan were more friendly it wouldn't amount to much. The different elements in their leadership say one thing to America - for example - but then another element does something else. Hence vowing to fight the Taliban all the while sheltering them. With friends like that...
I didn't say unstable, I said a quagmire. It's a quagmire because Taliban leaders and their fighters are given shelter in Pakistani territory. There they rest, heal, and re-arm, which obviously prolongs the conflict. I'm sure elements in the Pakistani government doesn't want this to be so but they are powerless to stop the counter-elements from doing as they please.
In fact, probably the main reason for a lack of aid is the same thing that vexes Pakistan in so many areas: their leadership structure is fragmented, decentralized, ineffectual, and crooked too boot.
GeneralIroh
Member
The flood is India/US/Israel's fault!
Common man do you really expect India to give pakistan any aid when they're at each other's throats? After that mumbai incident I doubt they would want to spare a rupee.
Common man do you really expect India to give pakistan any aid when they're at each other's throats? After that mumbai incident I doubt they would want to spare a rupee.
FieryBalrog
Member
theignoramus said:
India is going to give aid to a country that regularly and cynically sponsors cross border terrorism, abuses the fuck out of its Hindu population, has attacked her three times, and is the product of a 600 year long Islamic rape of the Hindu nation?
Color me unsurprised.
The Guardian is a typical lefty rag that sympathizes with whoever is being "demonized", and has a particular love for Islamists. I can't wait for the next article lecturing India about "human rights" in Kashmir.
*Adjusting my preachy hat* Such a powder keg of emotions that humanity sometimes gets lost.
My initial take is that India should be in a much better position to donate than if the situation was reversed (I'd say both sides have reason to be butthurt over Kashmir).
When was the big Indian quake? I recall Pakistan made a donation offer pretty quickly. In fact I'm sure LeT sent items too (but online coverage is virtually non-existent).
My initial take is that India should be in a much better position to donate than if the situation was reversed (I'd say both sides have reason to be butthurt over Kashmir).
When was the big Indian quake? I recall Pakistan made a donation offer pretty quickly. In fact I'm sure LeT sent items too (but online coverage is virtually non-existent).
Wat? India has attacked Pakistan on many, MANY occasions as well... Almost the same amount of time as Pakistan if not more. Eh they both hate each other for whatever reasons, it's been going on since, I dunno, 1940s. I can't blame you for thinking that though just watch the Indian news channels, they always put the blame on Pakistan everytime something bad happens in their country. A riot happens? PAKISTAN DID IT! Sometimes the blame is justifieable, most of the time it's without any proof.Dyno said:
I agree with everything, except for the army bit. In fact, army is the reason why Pakistan is still functioning..somewhat. They're trying to keep the government in check, but they don't have as much power over the government as they used to in the past.Dyno said:
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