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[redcrayon]

Alright, back from sleep. There are so many people in this thread who said "I just play good games", yet none of them have been posting in the recent Indie Games thread. And that is exactly the issue, what do people consider "good" games? This is something subjective of course, but people are dismissing a whole type of games ´, just based on formal aspects, which essentially comes down to "because they arent used to it". For all the people complaining about the thread title, lets just say that the thread title served its purpose. And do you know why? Because it got people to talk.

If I do a down to earth attempt to get people on here to play these kind of games, you know like... making a huge thread about the variety of recently released Indie Games:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=517647

It takes almost 2 weeks to reach 200 posts not done by me.

You know how long it took this thread to reach the same non-Toma postcount? 6 hours. And that is exactly the problem here.

So all of you guys saying you only play "good" games, or the ones saying AAA or Indie doesnt matter to them, how many of the games from the thread linked above did you play? Because there are about 5-10 games in there that are almost required playing because they are very, very great games. Yet no one seems to care. And why? Well, because what I said in the OP basically.

A couple of points here-

I'm not sure how lack of interest in the indie thread implies anything- nobody is required to register their interest there. There are lots of AAA games I play where I don't enter the thread either, probably the vast majority of them, and one single 'indie' thread makes for a far less focused discussion- I would imagine anyone looking to discuss a particular game would look for a specific thread on it.

I take your point that AAA threads get more responses, but it's a vicious circle- people are more likely to post on threads that stay on the front page. Games that sell millions have millions of players etc etc. That still doesn't mean people haven't played games, they just might not want to discuss them when another discussion at is getting twenty responses an hour is going on.

 

[AmaterasuOkami076]

That was a great OP and I've learned that I don't know as much about indie games as I thought I did. I haven't heard of many of the ones you listed in the "People are missing out on great games" section that are soon being released.

For me personally the problem isn't as much the things you've mentioned, it's my reluctance to buy digital games. I'm one of those bitter gamers that rely almost exclusively on physical copies because I don't feel like I own digital ones (inb4 you don't technically own physical copies either) - if there were more triple packs of Indie games being released at retail I'd be getting a lot more, I know it's not financially feasible and missing the point of an indie game, but it's just how I feel. I'm open to lots of different game genres and experiences, as I don't really buy AAA releases anymore since they are feeling pretty samey. But I'm just still not sold on a digital future, and it's not something I feel happy about getting into.

I know I'm missing out some potentially great games though.

 

[Toma]

So the argument over why Indie games are towering over AAA or traditional games quality wise is quantity and variety? Why is more necessarily better?

Also what genre is "art"?

First of all, the argument isnt inherently that Indies are better than 'AAA', but that they a) offer experiences that 'AAA' cant and therefore are worthwhile to everyone dismissing Indie Games for no valid reason. And b) that they need more attention to actually get to an at least decent recognition level. The title of this thread wasnt put in words, because its a diffuse concept that people should think about (and to lure people in this thread, because as I stated earlier, people dont care otherwise). Indie > 'AAA' could also mean that Indies need more attention, or that Indie Games have more pineappels than 'AAA' games. The title was meant purely to finally get people to talk to me, the actual content explains the idea and problems.

Oh and btw, I wouldnt want to miss out on The Last of Us btw. 'AAA' and Indie are two sides of the same coin, and the only thing I am fighting for atm, is that people actually take their time to take a look what the other side of the coin looks like and re-evaluate the amount of time they look at only one side.

Art is the shorthand for example exploration type games that dont revolve about the usual concept of how a game needs to be played and/or won. Some games blur the lines here, while still being inherently considered artsy for the emotions they try to evoke while still falling into one of the more classic genres (Journey is a 3D platformer basically).

And yes, VARIETY is a big and huge part why Indie games have an advantage over 'AAA' in some concrete examples. They dare to explore concepts that big games cant or dont want in fear of not selling enough copies. Variety is what everyone should want, meaning playing both bigger and smaller games, yet almost none of the people seem to do exactly that.

 

[Snapshot King]

First of all, the argument isnt inherently that Indies are better than 'AAA', but that they a) offer experiences that 'AAA' cant and therefore are worthwhile to everyone dismissing Indie Games for no valid reason. And b) that they need more attention to actually get to an at least decent recognition level. The title of this thread wasnt put in words, because its a diffuse concept that people should think about (and to lure people in this thread, because as I stated earlier, people dont care otherwise). Indie > 'AAA' could also mean that Indies need more attention, or that Indie Games have more pineappels than 'AAA' games. The title was meant purely to finally get people to talk to me, the actual content explains the idea and problems.

Oh and btw, I wouldnt want to miss out on The Last of Us btw. 'AAA' and Indie are two sides of the same coin, and the only thing I am fighting for atm, is that people actually take their time to take a look what the other side of the coin looks like and re-evaluate the amount of time they look at only one side.

Art is the shorthand for example exploration type games that dont revolve about the usual concept of how a game needs to be played and/or won. Some games blur the lines here, while still being inherently considered artsy for the emotions they try to evoke while still falling into one of the more classic genres (Journey is a 3D platformer basically).

And yes, VARIETY is a big and huge part why Indie games have an advantage over 'AAA' in some concrete examples. They dare to explore concepts that big games cant or dont want in fear of not selling enough copies. Variety is what everyone should want, meaning playing both bigger and smaller games, yet almost none of the people seem to do exactly that.

That's unfair. Just because I don't post in the indie topic, or check out 90% of those, doesn't mean I dislike variety. Chivalry, FTL, Hotline Miami, + a dozen more are games I bought and enjoyed last year. I'm sure it's the same for many others. The issue is that there's really several tiers of indie games.

Something you haven't really brought up is how many people are turned off to Indies by how much PURE GARBAGE there is out there.

 

[Shai-Tan]

I think that March Indie thread illustrates that the problem isn't so much visibility as much as it's separating out the good games. Spending hours trying games to determine if they are good or not isn't appealing to me anymore. Is there a blog dedicated to impressions which is updated daily like the 'mainstream' media? I noticed many years ago that a trailer isn't quite as reliable an indicator in indie games i.e. much of the time there will be some very obvious faults in controls or design that wouldn't ever be in a higher budget game.

 

[Risette]

Something you haven't really brought up is how many people are turned off to Indies by how much PURE GARBAGE there is out there.

Seriously, indie advocates should go browse through the entire XBL Indies section like I did out of curiosity once.

it's something

 

[Snapshot King]

Seriously, indie advocates should go browse through the entire XBL Indies section like I did out of curiosity once.

it's something

That's something we can agree on. I spent maybe...15 hours in that fucking pit, looking through garbage. I found maybe...5 games of value. Most of which either came to, or are in the process of coming to Steam.

 

[Toma]

That's unfair. Just because I don't post in the indie topic, or check out 90% of those, doesn't mean I dislike variety. Chivalry, FTL, Hotline Miami, + a dozen more are games I bought and enjoyed last year. I'm sure it's the same for many others. The issue is that there's really several tiers of indie games.

Something you haven't really brought up is how many people are turned off to Indies by how much PURE GARBAGE there is out there.

I havent brought that up? Its the whole point of the part in the OP where I talk about the problem that Indie games are considered junk. And thats exactly why there is a foundation for discussion, even on GAF, to ask others for their opinion.

And its nice that you did play these "bigger" Indie games, but those are usually the ones that get mass media recognition anyway. I am not saying that we shouldnt play them, because FTL, Hotline Miami etc are really great games, but more that there are more great games out there that people dont seem to notice. There is a lot of games that arent worthwhile, sure. But I'd bet money on it, that for every fun game you played last year, you missed another great game you never even heard about.

Now the topic of taste is a bit different, and it will take me a bit longer to respond to your last post about genres.

 

[Toma]

I think that March Indie thread illustrates that the problem isn't so much visibility as much as it's separating out the good games. Spending hours trying games to determine if they are good or not isn't appealing to me anymore. Is there a blog dedicated to impressions which is updated daily like the 'mainstream' media? I noticed many years ago that a trailer isn't quite as reliable an indicator in indie games i.e. much of the time there will be some very obvious faults in controls or design that wouldn't ever be in a higher budget game.

That's something we can agree on. I spent maybe...15 hours in that fucking pit, looking through garbage. I found maybe...5 games of value. Most of which either came to, or are in the process of coming to Steam.

That march Indie thread is a list of games that is already separated from the "bad" ones by only taking games into the thread that someone felt strong enough about to post on. The rest is just subjective opinion. Everyone will like at least a single game, and likely more from that thread, if they actually gave them a try. Usually the choice is out of hundreds of games each month, that game condensed interesting releases to 40+ so far. If you feel like that is still too much, you are welcome to step into the thread and ask for recommendations based on your taste.

But in MY personal opinion, the games I'd highly recommend are:
Gorogoa, Zineth, Factorio, Kyoto, Spice Road, The Bridge, The Sea Will Claim Everything, Papers Please, Starseed Pilgrim, Kentucky Route Zero.

 

[Snapshot King]

I havent brought that up? Its the whole point of the part in the OP where I talk about the problem that Indie games are considered junk. And thats exactly why there is a foundation for discussion, even on GAF, to ask others for their opinion.

And its nice that you did play these "bigger" Indie games, but those are usually the ones that get mass media recognition anyway. I am not saying that we shouldnt play them, because FTL, Hotline Miami etc are really great games, but more that there are more great games out there that people dont seem to notice. There is a lot of games that arent worthwhile, sure. But I'd bet money on it, that for every fun game you played last year, you missed another great game you never even heard about.

Now the topic of taste is a bit different, and it will take me a bit longer to respond to your last post about genres.

There's a reason they get more attention though. When I saw Braid, I was immediately intrigued by it. When I saw Hotline Miami, it was the same. When I heard the concept for Antichamber, I was grabbed. A combination of high quality and an excellent hook obviously drives these to the top, but that's the same reason many of the games in your topic get ignored. They don't have that...spark. And I'm not going to spend hours and hours of my day sifting through mediocre stuff in order to get to the gold. I can just find gold elsewhere.

That march Indie thread is a list of games that is already separated from the "bad" ones by only taking games into the thread that someone felt strong enough about to post on. The rest is just subjective opinion. Everyone will like at least a single game, and likely more from that thread, if they actually gave them a try.

But in MY personal opinion, the games I'd highly recommend are:
Gorogoa, Zineth, Factorio, Kyoto, Spice Road, The Bridge, The Sea Will Claim Everything, Papers Please, Starseed Pilgrim, Kentucky Route Zero.

Kind of my point though, that even amongst your picks, very few if any actually grab my attention.

 

[Toma]

There's a reason they get more attention though. When I saw Braid, I was immediately intrigued by it. When I saw Hotline Miami, it was the same. When I heard the concept for Antichamber, I was grabbed. A combination of high quality and an excellent hook obviously drives these to the top, but that's the same reason many of the games in your topic get ignored. They don't have that...spark. And I'm not going to spend hours and hours of my day sifting through mediocre stuff in order to get to the gold. I can just find gold elsewhere.



Kind of my point though, that even amongst your picks, very few if any actually grab my attention.

Your attention is based on the screenshots alone? Many of those games have a demo or are entirely free. People shouldnt judge a book by its cover, although I agree that there is a strong tempation to do that.

Starseed Pilgrim didnt hook me right away when I saw a screenshot or even a video. They can revolve around concepts that arent visible on a mere screenshot, and those are usually also the concepts and ideas that are not explored in "big" games, which in turn leads to less variety for the gamer in question.

 

[CUD]

I do agree with the premise. Indie games offer excellent quality for very reasonable prices; this does of course vary from game to game but the same could be said for AAA titles.

Paying $60 for a game in the industry of today seems kind of crazy considering what these indie games are offering.

 

[Snapshot King]

Your attention is based on the screenshots alone? Many of those games have a demo or are entirely free. People shouldnt judge a book by its cover, although I agree that there is a strong tempation to do that.

Time has value, though. And I'm not judging a book by it's cover. I'm judging it, predominantly, on your screenshots, that you picked, and the descriptions you provided that I assume you meant to entice us with. As well as any history I've had with similar games.

 

[Toma]

I do agree with the premise though. Indie games offer excellent quality for very reasonable prices; this does of course vary from game to game but the same could be said for AAA titles.

Paying $60 for a game in the industry of today seems kind of crazy considering what these indie games are offering.

I'd delete that snippet in the beginning of the post. Its bannable.

 

[MormaPope]

That's unfair. Just because I don't post in the indie topic, or check out 90% of those, doesn't mean I dislike variety. Chivalry, FTL, Hotline Miami, + a dozen more are games I bought and enjoyed last year. I'm sure it's the same for many others. The issue is that there's really several tiers of indie games.

Something you haven't really brought up is how many people are turned off to Indies by how much PURE GARBAGE there is out there.

It's sometimes not even a quality issue, when I beat an indie game my interest in coming back to that specific game is almost nil. A lot of indie games leave me feeling shallow or empty. Indie games feel easy to discard, once you're done playing you thrown one game away and jump to the next. And then the next, then the next.

Indie games to me is like eating a bunch of snacks instead of eating a full meal.

 

[Snapshot King]

It's sometimes not even a quality issue, when I beat an indie game my interest in coming back to that specific game is almost nil. A lot of indie games leave me feeling shallow or empty. Indie games feel easy to discard, once you're done playing you thrown one game away and jump to the next. And then the next, then the next.

Indie games to me is like eating a bunch of snacks instead of eating a full meal.

I paid 10 dollars for Dear Esther to have a 2 hour trip through a cool environment that at the end made me go "Huh, I guess." Left me feeling like I had used my time and money in a totally neutral state. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't...anything. Granted, that applies to AAA games as well, but they're a lot easier to see coming with that stuff.

 

[Lord Phol]

Should have made a better thread title then.

Gaf rules state that you read the OP before you reply, don't be one of those guys.

It's an interesting topic and I would like to add that I find alot of "AAA" games very unpolished consdering the amount of time, manwork and money that is spent on making them. Anything from, bad hit-detection, janky animations and bad optimization to fps drops and jarring aliasing makes me cringe and turn the other way.
I've mentioned this before but Dragons Dogma is one of those games, no matter the grand scale and depth it might have, the feeling i got when playing it was "really, this is a high budget game from capcom and it looks and feels like this?", before I turned it off.

Even then some games like Diablo 3 that are polished to infinity can end up bad.

Might have gone a bit off-topic there, but I approve of this thread. High budget does not automatically mean great quality and vice versa.

 

[LeleSocho]

While i like more small and indipendent games than hollywoodian stuff i think that indies developers sucks ass
they are all like "look how my super indie game that i made me and myself only have such an important and hidden meaning behind those pixel"

If i ever will make a game i will never put in the indie category even if that would mean less revenue.

 

[wonzo]

Seriously, indie advocates should go browse through the entire XBL Indies section like I did out of curiosity once.

it's something

see also: steam greenlight

 

[legacyzero]

I've had more fun with Indie games in the last year or so than any "AAA" game.

FTL, Minecraft especially.

 

[Haunted]

Seriously, indie advocates should go browse through the entire XBL Indies section like I did out of curiosity once.

it's something

Oh, there's a lot of shit out there. A lot of shit. XBLIG and also Steam Greenlight during its first couple days - damn, what an unholy mess.

 

[Toma]

Seriously, indie advocates should go browse through the entire XBL Indies section like I did out of curiosity once.

it's something

see also: steam greenlight

See also: Point 3 of the OP, Invisibility.
No one is arguing that there is plenty of shit out there. Absolutely no one, yet some people feel enticed to use it as a throw away comment to dismiss all Indie games. Which is exactly what I stated in the OP people are doing, and why people shouldnt do it.

 

[Snapshot King]

See also: Point 3 of the OP, Invisibility.
No one is arguing that there is plenty of shit out there. Absolutely no one, yet some people feel enticed to use it as a throw away comment to dismiss all Indie games. Which is exactly what I stated in the OP people are doing, and why people shouldnt do it.

"The problem with that logic is, that there are probably more "critically acclaimed" (by the community and Indie Reviewers) Indie Games in a single year, than there were 'AAA' games throughout the whole past console generation and people simply dont have a fucking clue."

You cannot possibly look at the fucking indie games channel on xbox live, or early steam greenlight, and tell me that the good to bad ratio is worse in AAA titles. The Xbox Live Indie Channel has a ratio of about 99.99% complete fucking garbage compared to anything worthwhile. There's a reason people keep bringing this point up.

 

[Alex Connolly]

It might not be terribly important to many folks, although given the success of Kickstarter in recent memory, the indie scene has the delicious early buy-in aspect that draws developer and community together in far more positive and productive ways than not.

Sure, there's an element of risk throwing money at a project with no recourse if it never comes to fruition, but this is incredibly rare. I've enjoyed funding projects at the earliest possible point and it never fails to be a close-knit and rewarding experience. Even with some of the bigger alpha funding efforts like Endless Space, the studios that put their trust in the community usually end up with great products or products that a community has taken part in creating pre and post-release.

Amplitude's GAME2GETHER voting and discussion structure has done wonders to build both a fine game and a dedicated community, but even stuff like Modular Assault Vehicle...there's a tiny community behind the ONE GUY building a Chromehounds successor and it proffers a fantastic vibe.

Just another angle to indie games where, in comparison, there's a moat of ice and spikes around development and many of what would be unique features or creative quirks get beveled down in focus-testing and QA environments.

 

[Toma]

"The problem with that logic is, that there are probably more "critically acclaimed" (by the community and Indie Reviewers) Indie Games in a single year, than there were 'AAA' games throughout the whole past console generation and people simply dont have a fucking clue."

You cannot possibly look at the fucking indie games channel on xbox live, or early steam greenlight, and tell me that the good to bad ratio is worse in AAA titles. The Xbox Live Indie Channel has a ratio of about 99.99% complete fucking garbage compared to anything worthwhile. There's a reason people keep bringing this point up.

I never said anything about a ratio, did I? Its about concrete numbers. And there are so fucking MANY indie games out there, that even 00,01% (to take your example) apparently is enough to outnumber the good big budget games.

 

[Snapshot King]

I never said anything about a ratio, did I? Its about concrete numbers. And there are so fucking MANY indie games out there, that even 00,01% (to take your example) apparently is enough to outnumber the good big budget games.

Your point relates to the idea that people are surprised when indies turn out well or amazing. When they're from an ocean of shit, that assumption is natural.

 

[Toma]

Your point relates to the idea that people are surprised when indies turn out well or amazing. When they're from an ocean of shit, that assumption is natural.

And that is why other people help you through websites and forum posts to weed out the interesting ones. Unfortunately, that isnt going far enough, as it isnt,for example, rare to see Gafs frontpage without a single Indie Game related thread or OT.

I am not asking anyone to check out 1000 Indie games a year. I am asking people to look at 40+ Indie games in a monthly Indie Game thread, which offers enough variety to appeal to everyone. You maybe cant try 40 of those games a month, then people in that thread make a suggestion for the ones that shouldnt be missed.

 

[Snapshot King]

And that is why other people help you through websites and forum posts to weed out the interesting ones. Unfortunately, that isnt going far enough, as it isnt,for example, rare to see Gafs frontpage without a single Indie Game related thread or OT.

That's my entire point though. The issue with the thread you have made (and kudos, its a great thread) is that those are the ones you sifted out from the shit ocean, and even amongst those, there aren't any that caught my interest enough to do so much as download.

 

[truly101]

just play good games.

/thread. I like all types. There are some indie games I'd love to try but they're on PC so unless they get ported to XBLA or PSN, I don't get a chance to play them. I'm looking forward to trying out Hotline Miami when it comes out later this year.

 

[Toma]

That's my entire point though. The issue with the thread you have made (and kudos, its a great thread) is that those are the ones you sifted out from the shit ocean, and even amongst those, there aren't any that caught my interest enough to do so much as download.

And that is a perception issue, which is definitely a problem for Indie Games. But as I said, working on your post with the genre likings and dislikes and asking you to check out specific games will take me a while since I am actually working now. I'll get back to you.

 

[Snapshot King]

And that is a perception issue, which is problematic. But as I said, working on your post with the genre likings and dislikes and asking you to check out specific games will take me a while since I am actually working now. I'll get back to you.

Can you ballpark a time on that. It's 8am, I'm pretty tired.

 

[Toma]

Can you ballpark a time on that. It's 8am, I'm pretty tired.

Oh wow. Go to bed, man. Whenever I make that post, I'll shoot you a PM. Have a great night Hope you dont need to get out too early.

 

[MormaPope]

I never said anything about a ratio, did I? Its about concrete numbers. And there are so fucking MANY indie games out there, that even 00,01% (to take your example) apparently is enough to outnumber the good big budget games.

Maybe statistically, and that's a generous maybe. The number of experiences don't make up for the number of extremely valued experiences I've had. More recently the entirety of Metal Gear Rising has outclassed anything I've played in the past few months, AAA/traditionally or indie wise.

That one experience can outclass or beat 20 others.

 

[Snapshot King]

Oh wow. Go to bed, man. Whenever I make that post, I'll shoot you a PM. Have a great night Hope you dont need to get out too early.

I'm not that tired, that's why I wanted a ballpark. That being said, I wanna elaborate a bit on my genre thing. I feel like the indie scene is lopsided out of my favour, not just because of the genre dislikes I presented, but because of dramatic under-representation of genres that I would immediately take a look at.

Where are the indie fighters not named Divekick or Skullgirls, which aren't chinese knockoffs or made for pedophiles? Where's a single indie character action game that isn't terrible?

 

[Toma]

I'm not that tired, that's why I wanted a ballpark. That being said, I wanna elaborate a bit on my genre thing. I feel like the indie scene is lopsided out of my favour, not just because of the genre dislikes I presented, but because of dramatic under-representation of genres that I would immediately take a look at.

Where are the indie fighters not named Divekick or Skullgirls, which aren't chinese knockoffs or made for pedophiles? Where's a single indie character action game that isn't terrible?

I just started working, so it will probably take 8-12 hours to think about that a bit more thoroughly and write it up.

Maybe statistically, and that's a generous maybe. The number of experiences don't make up for the number of extremely valued experiences I've had. More recently the entirety of Metal Gear Rising has outclassed anything I've played in the past few months, AAA/traditionally or indie wise.

That one experience can outclass or beat 20 others.

Sure, I am not saying that big games are all bad. And I am not judging anyone for having his last favourite game being one of the 'AAA' category. All I am saying that people should try more things. How many of the games of the Indie March thread did you try?

 

[BrLvgThrChmstry]

I'm not that tired, that's why I wanted a ballpark. That being said, I wanna elaborate a bit on my genre thing. I feel like the indie scene is lopsided out of my favour, not just because of the genre dislikes I presented, but because of dramatic under-representation of genres that I would immediately take a look at.

Where are the indie fighters not named Divekick or Skullgirls, which aren't chinese knockoffs or made for pedophiles? Where's a single indie character action game that isn't terrible?

I think that is a huge factor some folks. Me being one of them.

 

[MormaPope]

I just started working, so it will probably take 8-12 hours to think about that a bit more thoroughly and write it up.



Sure, I am not saying that big games are all bad. And I am not judging anyone for having his last favourite game being one of the 'AAA' category. All I am saying that people should try more things. How many of the games of the Indie March thread did you try?

From just that thread I've played "Papers Please" and the Jelly Puzzle game, downloaded a few others that are free.

Almost finished Papers Please in it's beta form, got to level 4 of Super Jelly Puzzle thing.

 

[Alex Connolly]

Where are the indie fighters not named Divekick or Skullgirls, which aren't chinese knockoffs or made for pedophiles? Where's a single indie character action game that isn't terrible?

See, this is where I do think there's a requirement for coexistence. Some genres and styles of games simply require larger productivity output that is beyond what many small teams are capable of. I certainly don't expect people to choose a compromised experience just because of its humble roots.

 

[Toma]

From just that thread I've played "Papers Please" and the Jelly Puzzle game, downloaded a few others that are free.

Almost finished Papers Please in it's beta form, got to level 4 of Super Jelly Puzzle thing.

That is pretty cool and then I am totally not talking about you in the OP. Its perfectly fine if people love big games, I just want people to see what other games there are out there, especially considering the rapid growth in quality, even though the growth in quantity definitely is a reason why people are having issues finding games worth playing.

And the responses in this thread clearly show that most people posting dont do that, for whatever valid or non-valid reason. And I am trying to question that reason, without necessarily saying that the person is wrong. But it sort of feels to me that some people are clinging to the world view of the earth being a flat space, while others shout at them to just look at the stars.

 

[Snapshot King]

That is pretty cool and then I am totally not talking about you in the OP. Its perfectly fine if people love big games, I just want people to see what other games there are out there, especially considering the rapid growth in quality, even though the growth in quantity definitely is a reason why people are having issues finding games worth playing.

So you're saying you want me to try out everything free in there, then go back and shit your topic up with my impressions of "meh"?

Cuz I'll shit that topic straight up Toma. I'll do it. Just you watch me.

Spoiler

 

[Toma]

So you're saying you want me to try out everything free in there, then go back and shit your topic up with my impressions of "meh"?

Cuz I'll shit that topic straight up Toma. I'll do it. Just you watch me.

Spoiler

Haha, thats actually the reason why I want some time to think about how to prepare you for certain games, and which games I'd like to ask you to try. I definitely see the predicament you are in and that expecting a certain something from a game is important to your enjoyment of games in general. But thats... tough stuff to think about. I dont want to waste my chance

 

[Crub]

For me personally the problem isn't as much the things you've mentioned, it's my reluctance to buy digital games. I'm one of those bitter gamers that rely almost exclusively on physical copies because I don't feel like I own digital ones (inb4 you don't technically own physical copies either) - if there were more triple packs of Indie games being released at retail I'd be getting a lot more, I know it's not financially feasible and missing the point of an indie game, but it's just how I feel.

You can buy Humble Indie Bundles for just a dollar and get plenty of great games. Currently Humble Bundle for Android 5 is up.

 

[synchronicity]

I'm just happy that gaming has reached a point in its evolution that so many options are available to a gaming fanatic like myself. I just love games period- AAA, Indie, whatever. If it's fun to me, I'm all over it! It's impossible for me to play all the games I want to as it is, but I play as much as I can.

 

[Derrick01]

Dude, come into the Indie Games thread and get your ignorance destroyed within seconds!

For someone who rails against AAA games all the time, it's really surprising you haven't checked out the other side.

There are even more genres covered in indie games than AAA games. I'd argue many AAA games are as shallow as NES games, but with prettier graphics. There are games dealing with real life serious issues too, not just arcade type games.

I have over 100 "indie" games on Steam due to them being so cheap during past steam sales and having challenges attached to them and I dislike over 90% of them. Same with the amount I had on xbla and PSN. As much shit as I give bigger games, indie games just don't match the same level of experience that even modern AAA games provide or AA games from smaller publishers. Like I said I'm waiting for them to evolve out of the NES/Arcade/early PC gaming stage into some deeper stuff.

 

[Tain]

Do we have any known measurement to verify he beat the game? $10 that you are not able to beat the game within a month (as in, beat every level in the game). You'd get a game worth $10 on Steam from me anytime you want, but I cant think of a way to restrain you from cheating.

You really don't think someone could beat each stage in Super Meat Boy over the course of a month? I think that's pretty baffling.

 

[Toma]

You really don't think someone could beat each stage in Super Meat Boy over the course of a month? I think that's pretty baffling.

Someone not trained in the genre? That would be tough. And even then, I dont know anyone who played through the game and considered it "pisseasy". So even if he managed to do it, he'd still probably admit that "pisseasy" wasnt the right word to describe SMB.

 

[subversus]

For some reason a lot of people here think indie = 2d-sidecroller.

When I think indie I think Natural Selection II, Amnesia, Tripwire, DayZ.

 

[Toma]

For some reason a lot of people here think indie = 2d-sidecroller.

When I think indie I think Natural Selection II, Amnesia, Tripwire, DayZ.

When I think of Indie, I think of Frozen Synapse, SpaceChem, Dwarf Fortress and Project Zomboid. Yay, we managed to not mention a single 2D sidescroller! We must be lying.

 

[beril]

List of recently released titles:


And while the 'AAA' list is almost conclusive, the Indie game list is only from my very selective thread (due to not to many people participating). Its probably easy 2-3 times the amount of worthwhile games.

But lets get to the point, what are genres you actively dislike and why?

Out of curiosity, what time span are you using for these lists? A quick look at recent console releases reveals a bunch of genres you haven't listed; sports, racing, brain training, jrpgs.

When you include all the smallest freeware games made a a couple of guys, there will of course be way more releases in general; but most of these won't appeal to that many people. And when you look at the bigger more high profile indie games; the indie moniker becomes pretty meaningless. People shouldn't really care wether or not a game is indie

 

[Toma]

Out of curiosity, what time span are you using for these lists? A quick look at recent console releases reveals a bunch of genres you haven't listed; sports, racing, brain training, jrpgs.

When you include all the smallest freeware games made a a couple of guys, there will of course be way more releases in general; but most of these won't appeal to that many people. And when you look at the bigger more high profile indie games; the indie moniker becomes pretty meaningless. People shouldn't really care wether or not a game is indie

The last few months, but true, I very likely have missed a few things. The only thing I wanted to say with that is that one side of the coin has certain strengths, while the other side has DIFFERENT strengths.

And I am all for people not needing to care about whether a game is Indie or not. Unfortunately, most people do exactly that however, by dismissing Indie Games as "2d platforming shit" or whatever other reasonings I've come across.

If most people would actually consider big budget and Indie games as "equal", in giving both types of games an equal and fair chance, this topic wouldnt exist. People shouldn't really care wether or not a game is indie, but they do, and thats usually not in favor of the game.