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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor

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Jobbs

Banned
Wow it looks and sounds amazing in motion. I really love the dash move and how it's used to get around enemies and the way it sounds is really cool.

How do you do your art? Are the assets done at a high resolution and made to look like pixel art? Everything has a nice clear look to them and yet still have that pixel charm.

Thanks. :) The art is done larger than the game assets and then when I prepare it for the game I make spritesheets where the everything is scaled down. It's certainly not done in a traditional pixel art style -- I *do* on some occasions work in pixel art, and that is low resolution, no aliasing. Ghost Song art is done in photoshop in a very conventional, anti aliased, high res way.


I hope you have lots of stretch goals... dat artwork man. Ghost Song will get backed in a matter of days.

I have some ideas about stretch goals to improve the game (the core game is what it is, I'm not going to slice it up and make a game show out of it --- but there are some things I can do with additional funds that would benefit the game) but I'm debating whether to display them from the outset or only put them up if funding looks like it's going to happen. I thank you for your enthusiasm but I still have absolutely no clue if this thing will fund or not. I'm doing my best with the listing and promotion, but I'm ready for anything. :)
 

Servbot24

Banned
As long as you get the word out (I'm sure the people itt will help you), I don't think there's any question that you could fund the game. Looks really good. :)
 
Hello indie thread. Haven't posted here in a while (and under a different side of indie development), so forgive me if this has been asked/referenced elsewhere: I'm going to be mothballing my iOS dev (from a "try to make money standpoint") now that I've gotten a real job that pays, but I do like to keep doing this as a side hobby thing.

With gamedev as a hobby, I expect the timescale to increase, and the actual pressure for me to "make something on time" goes out the window. However, because of this different set of "goal", I would like to find a set of toolchain/software that allows me to deploy to as many devices and platforms as possible. So, what are my options?

Currently with my iOS stuff, it's written in native xcode using cocos2d. I'm currently investigating using Apportable to port stuff over to android, but this setup still leaves windows/mac (even linux) uncovered. What would have the least amount of barriers for me to write once and deploy on as many?
 

desu

Member
I still have absolutely no clue if this thing will fund or not. I'm doing my best with the listing and promotion, but I'm ready for anything. :)

Well if you need help or people to review your kickstarter campaign, I am sure there are enough people here that are eager to help with that (I think Feep did the same with "there came an echo").
 

Genji

Member
Hello indie thread. Haven't posted here in a while (and under a different side of indie development), so forgive me if this has been asked/referenced elsewhere: I'm going to be mothballing my iOS dev (from a "try to make money standpoint") now that I've gotten a real job that pays, but I do like to keep doing this as a side hobby thing.

With gamedev as a hobby, I expect the timescale to increase, and the actual pressure for me to "make something on time" goes out the window. However, because of this different set of "goal", I would like to find a set of toolchain/software that allows me to deploy to as many devices and platforms as possible. So, what are my options?

Currently with my iOS stuff, it's written in native xcode using cocos2d. I'm currently investigating using Apportable to port stuff over to android, but this setup still leaves windows/mac (even linux) uncovered. What would have the least amount of barriers for me to write once and deploy on as many?

Since you're already familiar with cocos2d, have you thought about using cocos2d-x?

http://www.cocos2d-x.org/

Haven't used it at any length and it's been a while since I've played around with it, but it's fairly well supported and should cover all of the platforms you'd realistically need.
 

Ashodin

Member
ARTIST DELIVERS!

imGBWg5.png
 
USgamer.net posted an article about my game today.
Looking great so far. Good luck with Kickstarter and the migration to Unity if that's still to happen.


30243217.gif

(slow motion)

I'm now about 75% done about my system of solving the basic equations of
motion for a rigid body. The last two points reaming are a higher order
integrator (rk4) and the computation of the principle axis of the inertia
tensor.

So far everything looks pretty good. Now I have also a formula for computing
the form drag of a rocket -- nothing too difficult, but yet very cool to have.

Love the work you're doing with this. Are you designing your own rigid body physics engine for a future game or is it just a math/programming exercise?
 

Jobbs

Banned
This week feels sort of surreal, the response we had at PAX Aus for Cactus was beyond my wildest imagination, and now today we are featured on the Penny Arcade Report!

http://penny-arcade.com/report/arti...illiantly-conceived-masterfully-designed-bull

I am kind of without words right now... Guess it's time to really finish this game and get it in peoples hands!

Damn, this is looking fantastic. I've seen your gifs here before but didn't fully realize the coolness of the game.

What platform(s) is it coming to? What's the plan?
 

Paz

Member
Cheers, I appreciate the kind sentiments :)

Damn, this is looking fantastic. I've seen your gifs here before but didn't fully realize the coolness of the game.

What platform(s) is it coming to? What's the plan?

We're building it for Windows, OSX and Linux with an October release in mind for $15, but we'll be doing pre-orders very soon with alpha access.

It has been a LOT tougher than I thought to build the game while marketing it and doing all the paperwork for everything in-between :/ We're a team of 3 (no outsourcing though, that 3 includes audio for example) which is kind of large by the indie scale so if you're smaller than that I think you should prepare to spend a lot of time doing things that don't help you finish your game.

Even with coverage like this we're still at least 10 thousand votes away from being Greenlit on steam, even though our vote ratio is starting to look quite healthy we just havn't had the number of unique views needed, something like 26 thousand for us vs ~90 thousand for the top 50. And at this point I'm pretty sure I'll never realise my dream of having a thread on GAF for the game :p
 
Since you're already familiar with cocos2d, have you thought about using cocos2d-x?

http://www.cocos2d-x.org/

Haven't used it at any length and it's been a while since I've played around with it, but it's fairly well supported and should cover all of the platforms you'd realistically need.
Ah yes, there is that. I'm sort of more curious to see what people use, what's the general accepted tool when it comes to something like doing the steam greenlight mac/pc releases, but yeah, I relaly need to check cocos2d-x first.

Anyone else curious about Xbone becoming a devkit? I would buy it and develop something, if the price goes down in a couple years.
I'm still not sure how different this all is from how the XNA/XBLIG has developed over time for now, and while this sounds great, XNA was somewhat billed similarly at it's launch.
 

Genji

Member
Ah yes, there is that. I'm sort of more curious to see what people use, what's the general accepted tool when it comes to something like doing the steam greenlight mac/pc releases, but yeah, I relaly need to check cocos2d-x first.

I also tried Marmalade quite a bit before eventually porting all of my code to Unity3D and the 2D Toolkit plugin. Marmalade has some quirks but works well if you're comfortable with C++ and OpenGL. Last time I was using it a couple years ago, there were some issues with deploying to Windows, but I'm assuming those have been resolved.

Give Unity3D a try, it's remarkably easy to pick up.
 
Thanks. :)

The voices from the trailer are actually just "chanting monk" sounds that I got from Freesound.org. I've been working on Malebolgia for about 6 months now, though the idea and concept's been in my head for a bit longer. And I'm using Unity for the engine, Wings3D for the models, Blender for the animation and SketchUp for the environments.
Super awesome, I guess I don't know how much actual content you have but what you've showed off for that amount of time certainly seems impressive. How are you getting that look it's got (I don't know how to describe it really - painterly? but not quite), by the way - I'm assuming it's shader work? Or simpler than that? I'd love to hear a bit about it.
 

bumpkin

Member
The past week or so I've been farting around with trying to build an entity-component based engine. Man, the thought process behind this is so much different than the usual OOP hierarchy approach. It's hard to wrap my head around nameless, faceless objects that just get updated through a few nested loops with all of their interaction being handled by outsiders (the "Systems"). I'm sure I'll be happy with it in the end, but good god, it feels like the finish line is so far away.
 

Dascu

Member
Super awesome, I guess I don't know how much actual content you have but what you've showed off for that amount of time certainly seems impressive. How are you getting that look it's got (I don't know how to describe it really - painterly? but not quite), by the way - I'm assuming it's shader work? Or simpler than that? I'd love to hear a bit about it.

I'd say I'm about 70% done. And I use a slightly modified version of Unity's built-in toon shader.
 
How do I make proper collision walls in Game Maker? Any tutorial for that? I used this and he doesn't go into the detail for coding the walls.

People on forums suggested this:
Code:
x = xprevious;
y = yprevious;

While I can jump on the top, my character can also walk through the walls.
 

missile

Member
... Love the work you're doing with this. Are you designing your own rigid body physics engine for a future game or is it just a math/programming exercise?
Thx for the flowers! Have seen your BMX stuff. Cool stuff, mate! I love games
going for the physics.

Exercise? Nope. It's for real. Two games, actually. It's going to be a custom
build physics engine with special emphasis put on higher accuracy and on a
much deeper degree of sophistication to yield that special something making
your game feel different.

Well, I'm on a different path here. Contrary to common physics engine, which
put emphasis on simulating "larger worlds" but with much less accuracy, the
focus of my engine is more on "smaller worlds" that should behave much more
natural. But one can likewise increase the world and lower the accuracy as
well, which isn't really a problem for most engines. However, scaling upwards
for more realism isn't so easy for most engines (and I don't mean just
lowering the stepsize, which would be easy). Scaling upwards requires to
consider more complicated terms within the equations which are usually
neglected or simplified. This is done on purpose, of course, since if you
want to compute larger worlds you may have to cut some corners. And this is
usually done straight at the physical model you can't change afterwards, since
the entire (mathematical) engine code usually builds and depends upon the
physical model / assumptions being made.

With regard to my custom build engine, I want to have a more sophisticated
physical models -- retaining important terms and solving the equations on a
broader scale. This, however, will ultimately bound the worlds where such
physics can take place due to computational requirements. But, like I said
above, it's pretty easy to scale down on the model an as such to increase the
bounds of the world, if needed. For example, say you have a common physics
engine and you build kind of an indie game happening in a "small world". You
will get the same physical behavior like you will see in a bigger world, since
the physical model used is still the same -- despite you may have cycles to
waste.

With respect to indie games, many of them are small in scope. The idea for an
indie game is usually embedded into a small but yet very artistically created
world. And it is here were I think one can apply much more sophisticated
physics making the world feel more natural (more non-linear), since the
increase in computational power (mobile, tablets, desktops) makes this a
favorable approach. This may allow indie developers to give some of their
games a more lifelike nature increasing its feel without paying huge amounts
of money to make the world just -look- more sophisticated.

So that's essentially the idea behind this engine from a technical point of
view. Which brings us straight to the two games mentioned above.

The first one is sort of an anti-gravity / air / mid-air "racing" game called
ZONE. One can say that the soul purpose of my custom build physics engine is
to make the craft's dynamics feel outstanding. For me, this is a key-point.
But it's not so much about realism (anti-gravity?). That's not the point. The
point is the feeling.

The other game is going to be a pretty competitive and challenging sort of an
air-drifting game using aircraft vehicles. This becomes possible due to my
custom build physics engine. The aircrafts will be able to gain high angular
momentum and high rates of change of angular momentum while still rotating
realistically without having the physics dying in-between. This will allow for
a broad spectrum of motions (air drifts), giving the player the opportunity to
juggle with momentum and throw the craft into the air, into a stall, like
nothing else while kicking around. This game will precede ZONE.


Are you planning to have wind influence in your game, missile? just wondering cuz I'm curious how you would implement it.
Of course. ;)

A uniform wind blowing from some direction is easy, but sux, of course, since
wind is different all the way. Wind gets influenced by its own motion, by
obstacles, by the topology of the landscape, by the density of the air, as
well as by local heat sources etc. But that's pretty much to ask for, but
is what I'm after. However, I'm currently not in a position to do it that
way (time/money constrains). As such I am going to do it in two stages.

Stage 1 (non-phyical):
The idea is as follows; Am going to wrap an axis-aligned structured volumetric
grid over the scene and define a vector field v(x,t) over the grid that gives
me for each node within the grid a direction vector, i.e. a wind vector.
This vector field could be a composition of simpler vector fields making it
behave more realistically. Now imagine you have an object within such a grid
cell that should get be influenced by wind. One of the key observations on
structured grids is that point location is trivial. Once you have the cell
where the point is located in, you simply do a bilinear interpolation of the
eight wind vectors located at the corners of the cell in question with respect
to the point within the cell, yielding a wind vector at the given point which
can then be used to compute sort of a wind force exerted on an object the
point is being part of. One my use the center of mass as a point. Or, if you
also want to have some torque on the object, which is way cool obviously, use
some more points at a distance (leaver arm) from the center of mass.

Stage 2 (fully physical):
Same geometric alignment as above (for the time being). But now the vector
field v(x,t) gets computed according to the real physics. That way the wind's
motion will curve around obstacles within the scene (think more or less of big
obstacles like hills, big houses, huge walls etc -- it depends on the fineness
of the grid) and will create vortices and similar cool stuff. There is a
beautiful equation that has coded all of it into its genes, it's called the
Navier-Stokes equation. This equation needs to be solved on the grid in
question to yield the wind field v(x,t). It's the most difficult equation of
classical mechanics, it's a beast, it eats computational resources alive. But
the outcome is pure beauty.

That's how I'm going to do it. But not today.

Back to some drag computation...
 

Duderino

Member
Oh shit, didn't realize this was Smash style. Interest raised.
Yup, our goal is to make a competitive platform fighter that runs with what we enjoy about Melee while adding a number of twists in the form of new/different mechanics.

Just in case anyone missed the stream here's the link. Had a couple issues with the streaming frame rate despite the game running at 60fps. Also ran into some other issues as I worked, but here it is.

http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/435009055

Dat shield egg

Shield.gif
Now that's cool! Well done!


And at this point I'm pretty sure I'll never realize my dream of having a thread on GAF for the game :p
It's nice to know there is interest on Neogaf outside of other developers, but honestly having it happen might not live up to the idea of it. Threads just fade into irrelevancy too fast for many single indie game threads to sustain solid discussion here. With how awesome Cactus looks I bet someone will start one, but do expect most replies to be glancing first impressions. Just my general observation, but posters tend to drop in to give their quick two cents, then move on to some other topic.

There's always the Indie game monthly threads that I imagine holds interest a bit longer.
 

missile

Member
In preparation for the wings, I implemented a drag model for rockets.

Drag force, basically, is proportional to the velocity², a reference area,
the air density, shape/form, orientation, and a coefficient Cd (the drag
coefficient). Hence, for each change in orientation (angle of attack) you will
get a different Cd value. Cd measurements are usually done in wind tunnels or
computer simulations for different angles of attack.

Unfortunately, I didn't found any 3d drag data for a cylinder at different
angles of attack > 0. Just for the case of = 0 (longitudinal in my case). But
I still have some source where I can look for. Anyhow, I want to say how I
realized a full 360 degree drag model nevertheless. That means, for example,
the rocket falls slower while not being perfectly in a vertical position.
Similar things will hold while climbing. Hence, once the rocket turns more
horizontally with respect to the ground, while falling at a larger velocity,
it will also start to de-accelerate more and will accelerate again while
turning into a more vertical position.

Well, 2d drag data is pretty good documented. While looking at a 2d sphere (a
circle) and its drag data I suddenly realized that the 2d sphere is
essentially a slice of a 3d cylinder moving lateral through the air! I took
the drag coefficient of it an made some slight adjustments to make it "3d".
The rest of the puzzle was just an interpolation of the longitudinal and
lateral coefficients depending on the rockets angle of attack, yielding a
drag coefficient being used for calculating the retarding force. And you
know what, it works. That's amazing! xD

IuObZ7O.gif

The white rocket experience drag whereas the red one doesn't.

However, it is just sort of a simple drag model. It doesn't include drag
stemming from shock waves and similar stuff. That's something for the future.

Ok, drag in. What's next?
rk4 still pending...
Wings still pending...

With respect to the wings, I need to compute a lift force as well. So I think
I will do a model similar to the drag model to calculate some lift force for
the rocket. This will be another cool effect, if rockets do experience some
lift. This will modify the trajectory again, and coupled with a wind field
will make it way different due to the change of angle of attack with respect
to the relative wind direction the lift force depends on.
 

Miutsu

Member
Guys, I was wondering, for those of you who have had the SFX for your game made by a third party, usually which prices have they charged you? And do they charge for the whole SFX at once or they divide them per packs? I would like to know some experiences so I can budget accordingly.
 
Thx for the flowers! Have seen your BMX stuff. Cool stuff, mate! I love games
going for the physics.

...

One can say that the soul purpose of my custom build physics engine is
to make the craft's dynamics feel outstanding. For me, this is a key-point.
But it's not so much about realism (anti-gravity?). That's not the point. The
point is the feeling.

Thanks! It's awesome to know you're designing this for all the right reasons. Getting that true "feel" hinges on accurate simulation of every relevant force, and you seem to have a clear vision of what you want to simulate and a realistic sense of the limitations within which you'll have to work. The description of your Stage 2 wind model doesn't sound too far from a real-time CFD model--I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts and approach to that when you get to it.

I originally wanted to develop a bird flight sim for my first project. However, after familiarizing myself with Unity and the way the PhysX engine handles rigid bodies, I felt my limited programming experience would tempt me to rely on writing very basic AOA/drag/lift functions to arrive at the forces I desired. My simulation of wind was going to consist of a few simple "multiplier" variables plugged into those functions, the values of which would change based on the bird's velocity/trajectory versus the local rotation of its lifting planes versus a predetermined global wind direction/magnitude. Kindergarten stuff compared to the realistic wind dynamics you want to achieve... and I knew my basic approach might not produce the most accurate feeling of flight, so I dropped my sights to the BMX sim... so it's easy to see why I'm interested in what you're doing. Keep it up!
 

Limanima

Member
Snails is at the 8th position in the UK top paid Aps in WP7 (11 in WP8)!
In front of it, there's mega hits like Fruit Ninja, Angry Birds, Cut The Rope, and games from publishers like Namco and EA.

I really don't know why, because the game doesn't sell well, but I don't care, it feels great anyway!
hehehe

top_uk.png
 

Raonak

Banned
found out the android exporting of gamemaker studio is also compatible with ouya and gamestick.

sorta interested in getting a gamestick. the form factor is quite amazing. Only downside is the fact it only has 2 back buttons. lacking L2 and R2 triggers :/ but not too much of a problem since they could be remapped to the dpad.
 
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