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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor

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Santini

Member
2D Toolkit added some gui components a couple revisions ago. While it isn't as thorough as NGUI, it's probably good enough for a lot of interfaces, with the bonus of tying together with the base sprites cleanly.

Cool to know! I've been playing more with NGUI as of late, and hadn't really been using 2DTK as much in that regard. I had been waiting for NGUI to go on sale, and jumped on it immediately when it did a month or so ago. Same with 2D Toolkit.

Eventually, Unity's own built-in GUI will get something of an overhaul, since they hired the NGUI developer last year, presumably to do just that. Didn't want to wait that long, though!
 
Finished up my game VALKYRIE for the 7-day FPS game jam:

ScreenShot2013-08-14at121210PM.png


ScreenShot2013-08-16at25515PM.png


Video here.

You can get it for Mac, Win, and Browser.

Basically you roam around the battlefield collecting the souls of the fallen, then use that energy to affect the outcome of the battle.
 

Duderino

Member
Wait, 4.2 is out?
Yeah, thanks for not telling me, Unity...
Even a "check for updates" tells me 4.1.5f1 is "up to date".
Nice, they put in the shadows for Free. Still no MonoDevelop upgrade though.


Also, today I finally discovered why MonoDevelop was defaulting to LinkedList every time.
Apparently Windows 8 doesn't have the .net 3.5 framework installed, and it turns out the references for System.Collections.Generic.List are in 3.5...


Also important to note when you build the game on Windows, the mono.dll from 4.2 breaks on some computers. The good news is using the file from a build made prior to the update will fix it.
 

Feep

Banned
Will do, I'm pretty excited. It took me about 4 months starting from scratch to have a solid build in XNA, very curious to see how it goes with Unity. I literally know nothing about it, is it more of an actual engine with built-in editors? I'm often amazed at how fast people seem to prototype with it.

My next game will be 2D but I'm not against doing it polygonal, or parts of it. Would be nice to stretch my modeling skills since they have gotten pretty rusty.
It's definitely...different. The way I like to think about it is that Unity automatically takes of the "draw" cycles of XNA, based on an object's built-in parameters...the most important of which is the "transform", which contains position, rotation, and scale. You can manipulate the transform directly in a visual representation of the scene, which is really nice. Most of the "update" stuff still has to be coded by hand and attached to the objects in question, but Unity does provide common "update" functionality regarding physics, navigation, and movement. There's still plenty of code to be written, and what's nice for us XNA folk is that we can still use C#.

2-D and 3-D mix well, mainly because unlike XNA, there isn't really a separate "mode". 2-D stuff is just flat sprites sitting in a 3-D world.
 
Will do, I'm pretty excited. It took me about 4 months starting from scratch to have a solid build in XNA, very curious to see how it goes with Unity. I literally know nothing about it, is it more of an actual engine with built-in editors? I'm often amazed at how fast people seem to prototype with it.

My next game will be 2D but I'm not against doing it polygonal, or parts of it. Would be nice to stretch my modeling skills since they have gotten pretty rusty.

Unity3d to me is kinda like... "What if a 3d application would be your game engine and you could simply apply logic to scenes built by artists?". So if you ever worked with Maya, Max, XSI or whatever the hell, it'll probably only take you a day or so to get how Unity works.

It's WAAAAY more artist-driven than most other engines - You'll have to do way less manual labor to create stuff since the engine is already handling many things for you. Of course you'll still have to work hard to optimize things, but it's just not comparable to the amount of work you have to do if you have to make everything yourself.

On top of that, the Unity community and the 'Unity Answers' page is an amazing resource - most of the things you'll want to do, someone else more than likely already figured that out and put it into the forums at some point, so you can reference a lot of shit that's already there or get answers to questions simply because someone else most likely already asked it.
 

JulianImp

Member
On top of that, the Unity community and the 'Unity Answers' page is an amazing resource - most of the things you'll want to do, someone else more than likely already figured that out and put it into the forums at some point, so you can reference a lot of shit that's already there or get answers to questions simply because someone else most likely already asked it.

My only issue with the newer Unity Answers site is that its search engine has become integrated with the rest of the site's, so you get Answers results displayed like Google's, rather than with the previous, more detailed look, which looked like Stack Overflow's.
 

cbox

Member
I've always just used a text file. :p

Oh me too , though I have em all over the place! We do share a dropbox account so it's cool to see files updated in real time, though you can't be in the same document which sucks.

Yeah, if there's just you, then a todo list will do. I had a million post-it notes around the office. They're handy as you can sketch out a design for a feature on the note. If it doesn't fit on a post-it, and you're not a big team... red alert!! :D

I've used them in the past but I always lose them and I'm too cheap to go buy more, haha
 

missile

Member
Don't fuck with us. We have rockets! :D

gNdKNy6.png


Currently am decoupling the integrator from all the rigid bodies. Previously
the integrator got a struct of each rigid body and did its job. The new
integrator will be fully independent on whatever structure the object has.
Am going to take all rigid bodies and assembler the necessary data into a
plain old data structure. This allows my integrator to integrate
n-dimensional systems in one go and it eases data parallelization later on. My
oncoming fluid solver will need an integrator as well, so better to make the
integrator independent on any type.
 

Razorback

Member
Here's a proof of concept video for a game I want to make in the future. It's about being lost on an alien planet and using a molecular assembler to turn common materials into food, tools or weapons.

This is what it looks like:

Nivel5_shipwrecked.jpg

TPcenV05_05.jpg

cave4.jpg

MattandPaige.jpg


Check out the trailer here:

http://youtu.be/vyJt8yMXxDg

Right now I'm working on different game (set in the same universe). The story for this one is just way too ambitious for our small team at the moment.
 

hitsugi

Member
Hi everyone. Long time lurker here, and I know this is usually a personal preference thing, but I could use some advice:

I would like to make a game for personal recreation/satisfaction and learning purposes, and was thinking of either a traditional RPG / ARPG or a platformer (all 2d-based).

I'm a 2nd year CS student, and have passed Intro to C++, Intermediate C++, and completely bombed Advanced C++ (note: what my school considers Intro / Intermediate probably isn't typical - Intermediate stopped after pointers and intro to classes). My sprite skills are far from good, but that isn't my immediate concern.

I've looked at RPG Maker, Game Maker Studio, and Stencyl.

Stencyl seems sort of neat because you can get things up and running very quickly (maybe the fastest?), but how much could I really learn by working with Stencyl?

Would GMS provide a better foundation / understanding of how games work?

Not much to say about RPG Maker.. for some reason I have it in my head that if I'm going to use RPG Maker I might as well use Game Maker. I don't know why.
 
Hi everyone. Long time lurker here, and I know this is usually a personal preference thing, but I could use some advice:

I would like to make a game for personal recreation/satisfaction and learning purposes, and was thinking of either a traditional RPG / ARPG or a platformer (all 2d-based).

I'm a 2nd year CS student, and have passed Intro to C++, Intermediate C++, and completely bombed Advanced C++ (note: what my school considers Intro / Intermediate probably isn't typical - Intermediate stopped after pointers and intro to classes). My sprite skills are far from good, but that isn't my immediate concern.

I've looked at RPG Maker, Game Maker Studio, and Stencyl.

Stencyl seems sort of neat because you can get things up and running very quickly (maybe the fastest?), but how much could I really learn by working with Stencyl?

Would GMS provide a better foundation / understanding of how games work?

Not much to say about RPG Maker.. for some reason I have it in my head that if I'm going to use RPG Maker I might as well use Game Maker. I don't know why.

From what I can gather from Jobbs' posts, Stencyl is similar enough to coding that it'll teach you some best-practices and about the game loop. Game Maker is great in that it has drag and drop BUT also if you wish to extend it further, you have their scripting language which is component-based like Unity but easier since it's essentially their own bunch of functions that hook into their code.

The original, free, Spelunky was made in Game Maker. Jobbs' first version of Ghost Song was made in Stencyl.
 
Hi everyone. Long time lurker here, and I know this is usually a personal preference thing, but I could use some advice:

I would like to make a game for personal recreation/satisfaction and learning purposes, and was thinking of either a traditional RPG / ARPG or a platformer (all 2d-based).

I'm a 2nd year CS student, and have passed Intro to C++, Intermediate C++, and completely bombed Advanced C++ (note: what my school considers Intro / Intermediate probably isn't typical - Intermediate stopped after pointers and intro to classes). My sprite skills are far from good, but that isn't my immediate concern.

I've looked at RPG Maker, Game Maker Studio, and Stencyl.

Stencyl seems sort of neat because you can get things up and running very quickly (maybe the fastest?), but how much could I really learn by working with Stencyl?

Would GMS provide a better foundation / understanding of how games work?

Not much to say about RPG Maker.. for some reason I have it in my head that if I'm going to use RPG Maker I might as well use Game Maker. I don't know why.
Since you're actually a CS student, I'd say forego those. If you want to learn a lot in terms of programming and are content with a 2D game, try using a simple C++ library and building something with it (from personal experience, SMFL is great - I knew nothing of C++ going in and it's been treating me well). If you want to build games more so than struggle with tech, use Unity - you'll be able to use your programming knowledge to take it much further than the engines you mentioned. There are also great tutorials for both, if you don't know where to start in making a game - I can point you to some specifically if you'd like. The engines you mentioned will definitely have you pumping out a game in much less time, but if you take the longer route, I guarantee you will be far ahead of most of your CS classmates after a few months of working - you'll learn an incredible amount.
 

Tash

Member
Getting Gametracer ready for Gamescom and while playing around with the avatar creator I realized I can re-make Phil Fish!

0AWUCW3.png
 

cbox

Member
Razorback that looks like an awesome concept so far, I know how you feel when you don't have a team big enough to get the job done. I have an idea in my head that would be insane but I don't have the necessary team/time to get it done. One day!
 

Feep

Banned
Question for anyone who's worked on 3-D animations and stuff.

There are two options in Unity: Apply Root Motion, in which the animation actually modifies the model's transform as it moves, and...not that...in which all the animation just happens in place and the unit never actually changes position.

Since I'm doing hard path finding and motion driven by a Navigation Mesh, I was told to leave apply root motion off. But now that I've having soldiers getting into cover, it's getting weird.

Let's say the unit is moving north toward a wall. His running animation is pointed north. The animation then smoothly turns the soldier and his back is to the wall, gun up, like a badass.

According to the transform, however, he's still pointed north. This makes transitions out of the cover very weird (unless I specifically design one that reverses the direction again, but then it would look sort of weird if he's moving off to the side), and it creates issues where his gun is not facing the direction he's firing, and so on.

Anyone with any advice/experience/best practices on this? Should I do apply root motion, but tell my animator to animate the run cycle in place? I dunno.
 

Popstar

Member
Question for anyone who's worked on 3-D animations and stuff.

Anyone with any advice/experience/best practices on this? Should I do apply root motion, but tell my animator to animate the run cycle in place? I dunno.

Disclaimer: I haven't used the animation stuff in Unity 4.x so this is advice in general based on my experience working on the movement/combat for Bully years ago.

You want to use the root motion stuff. Make sure the motion is applied after every frame/simulation-step based on the delta. I've seen some systems that will only apply it after the entire animation has played and this is full of problems. Hopefully Unity 4.x handles this properly – and looping properly.

Make sure you have an additional bone just for this purpose and make it the parent the entire skeleton. We put this at the character's feet. You don't want to use the pelvis or whatever because you'll have the character moving around during idles and such. It also allows you to keep your walking/running smooth.
 

Feep

Banned
Disclaimer: I haven't used the animation stuff in Unity 4.x so this is advice in general based on my experience working on the movement/combat for Bully years ago.

You want to use the root motion stuff. Make sure the motion is applied after every frame/simulation-step based on the delta. I've seen some systems that will only apply it after the entire animation has played and this is full of problems. Hopefully Unity 4.x handles this properly – and looping properly.

Make sure you have an additional bone just for this purpose and make it the parent the entire skeleton. We put this at the character's feet. You don't want to use the pelvis or whatever because you'll have the character moving around during idles and such. It also allows you to keep your walking/running smooth.
Okay, my animator says adding the root is no problem. Should all animations...transitions into cover, slides, jumps over low walls...still happen "in place"? A lot of those movements in-game are still being positionally driven by the NavMesh, so I'd imagine I don't want animation translation conflicting with that.

And thanks, by the way!
 

Popstar

Member
Okay, my animator says adding the root is no problem. Should all animations...transitions into cover, slides, jumps over low walls...still happen "in place"? A lot of those movements in-game are still being positionally driven by the NavMesh, so I'd imagine I don't want animation translation conflicting with that.

And thanks, by the way!

You can put the movement in the animation for runs and such. This will prevent a lot of foot sliding and look best.

At run-time you inspect the first and last frames of the root position to get the total displacement. You can then do a little math and get out the speed you need to play the animation to make the character move at a specific speed allowing you to drive that from code.

You can always do certain specific animations in-place if needed if you need absolute control. For something like opening a door you would have the reach-out-and-grab-doorknob animation done in place and just slide the character position and bit to match up during the first frames of animation.

The important thing is that you apply the position changes every frame, to allow yourself to mix animation-driven and procedural-driven movement. I don't think the 3.x versions of Unity did this correctly.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim

eiskaltnz

Member
Hey guys, this seems like the best place to ask about general tips for a Game Jam.

I am doing one this weekend with some friends and was wondering if anyone has any tips for them?
Also does anyone suggest any tools of software which I could quickly pickup and use for the jam?

I have done one before, which went well but we built the entire engine from scratch and I felt like a lot of time was wasted doing the basics which would have been better spent in other areas.

Thanks!
 

Blizzard

Banned
Hey guys, this seems like the best place to ask about general tips for a Game Jam.

I am doing one this weekend with some friends and was wondering if anyone has any tips for them?
Also does anyone suggest any tools of software which I could quickly pickup and use for the jam?

I have done one before, which went well but we built the entire engine from scratch and I felt like a lot of time was wasted doing the basics which would have been better spent in other areas.

Thanks!
Is there anything you can tell us about the jam? If it's just a general weekend jam:

  • Don't make your own engine. Some programmers can do this but it's a huge risk. Plan to use GameMaker, Stencyl, Construct 2, Unity, or similar.
  • If you've accepted the idea of using a game engine, go through a tutorial BEFORE the jam. Like, go through a simple Game Maker sidescroller guide. And do a simple video tutorial for Stencyl or something. This way when you hit the jam, you'll be immediately familiar with what you need.
  • Beware 3D games unless, possibly, you're quite familiar with Unity. UDK -might- be an option, and I like the engine, I really do, but I feel you need to be well versed in that engine to have any hope of making something super quick.
  • Spend a few hours nailing the game idea down, but then go with it. Worst case, change plans early the morning of the second day, then STAY WITH THE IDEA. The sooner you start making something, once you have some idea of what you want to do, the better your chances of success.
  • Treat people nice. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes personalities are difficult. Think of it as part of the challenge.
  • Avoid feature creep. Better to finish a simpler idea and make it polished, and say "Hey I actually finished a game! It even has sound effects and people are playing it!" then to present a great idea that...didn't actually get done.
  • Work hard, but when it hits night time, GET 6-8 HOURS OF SLEEP. In a hotel is even better instead of trying to sleep under a table. I know it may seem tempting to work all night the first night, or crash in a corner, but getting a decent night's sleep each night can make a weekend jam awesome instead of terrible. It might help your creativity and efficiency too. :p

Good luck, and I hope some of those helped. They may sound simple and obvious but I think they're still important. :)
 

Alts

Member
Hey guys, this seems like the best place to ask about general tips for a Game Jam.

I am doing one this weekend with some friends and was wondering if anyone has any tips for them?
Also does anyone suggest any tools of software which I could quickly pickup and use for the jam?

I have done one before, which went well but we built the entire engine from scratch and I felt like a lot of time was wasted doing the basics which would have been better spent in other areas.

Thanks!

Game Jams are great for starting and finishing a game, but I'd argue that they aren't good at teaching you how to make games. I'd done a few and failed to produce anything until I'd become comfortable enough with my tools and workflow to get things done in a short amount of time. I worry that if you're asking about tools to pick up before the jam, you're already in trouble.

Is this Ludum Dare you're talking about?
 

eiskaltnz

Member
Is there anything you can tell us about the jam? If it's just a general weekend jam:

  • Don't make your own engine. Some programmers can do this but it's a huge risk. Plan to use GameMaker, Stencyl, Construct 2, Unity, or similar.
  • If you've accepted the idea of using a game engine, go through a tutorial BEFORE the jam. Like, go through a simple Game Maker sidescroller guide. And do a simple video tutorial for Stencyl or something. This way when you hit the jam, you'll be immediately familiar with what you need.
  • Beware 3D games unless, possibly, you're quite familiar with Unity. UDK -might- be an option, and I like the engine, I really do, but I feel you need to be well versed in that engine to have any hope of making something super quick.
  • Spend a few hours nailing the game idea down, but then go with it. Worst case, change plans early the morning of the second day, then STAY WITH THE IDEA. The sooner you start making something, once you have some idea of what you want to do, the better your chances of success.
  • Treat people nice. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes personalities are difficult. Think of it as part of the challenge.
  • Avoid feature creep. Better to finish a simpler idea and make it polished, and say "Hey I actually finished a game! It even has sound effects and people are playing it!" then to present a great idea that...didn't actually get done.
  • Work hard, but when it hits night time, GET 6-8 HOURS OF SLEEP. In a hotel is even better instead of trying to sleep under a table. I know it may seem tempting to work all night the first night, or crash in a corner, but getting a decent night's sleep each night can make a weekend jam awesome instead of terrible. It might help your creativity and efficiency too. :p

Good luck, and I hope some of those helped. They may sound simple and obvious but I think they're still important. :)

Awesome thanks for the tips.

The game jam is just a general game jam where we will get a theme on the night and work over the weekend. The team I am entering with is two programmers (one of which is myself) and two designers.

I have done a bunch of work in Unity, though not 2D so I am not sure how it works with that. I have also used a bit of Stencyl. I do really prefer programming to using logic blocks or other variations. The most trouble I am having at the moment is deciding on which bit of software we should use.

Game Jams are great for starting and finishing a game, but I'd argue that they aren't good at teaching you how to make games. I'd done a few and failed to produce anything until I'd become comfortable enough with my tools and workflow to get things done in a short amount of time. I worry that if you're asking about tools to pick up before the jam, you're already in trouble.

Is this Ludum Dare you're talking about?

It is not Ludum Dare. I participated in the same one last year and our team came third but we were a team of 4 programmers so we decided to use XNA a build it mostly from the ground up. It worked but I do feel it was not a good use of our time. As mentioned I am familiar with both Unity and Stencyl. Thanks for the reply.
 
Here's a proof of concept video for a game I want to make in the future. It's about being lost on an alien planet and using a molecular assembler to turn common materials into food, tools or weapons.

This is what it looks like:

Nivel5_shipwrecked.jpg

TPcenV05_05.jpg

cave4.jpg

MattandPaige.jpg


Check out the trailer here:

http://youtu.be/vyJt8yMXxDg

Right now I'm working on different game (set in the same universe). The story for this one is just way too ambitious for our small team at the moment.

Getting Gametracer ready for Gamescom and while playing around with the avatar creator I realized I can re-make Phil Fish!

0AWUCW3.png

Hahaha, thats great. I really love character creators, so much hours consumed into them!
 
Here's a proof of concept video for a game I want to make in the future. It's about being lost on an alien planet and using a molecular assembler to turn common materials into food, tools or weapons.

This is what it looks like:

Nivel5_shipwrecked.jpg

TPcenV05_05.jpg

cave4.jpg

MattandPaige.jpg


Check out the trailer here:

http://youtu.be/vyJt8yMXxDg

Right now I'm working on different game (set in the same universe). The story for this one is just way too ambitious for our small team at the moment.


I really like the concept for the female character.

Getting Gametracer ready for Gamescom and while playing around with the avatar creator I realized I can re-make Phil Fish!

0AWUCW3.png

Hahaha, thats great. I really love character creators, so much hours consumed into them!
 

Dynamite Shikoku

Congratulations, you really deserve it!
Here's a proof of concept video for a game I want to make in the future. It's about being lost on an alien planet and using a molecular assembler to turn common materials into food, tools or weapons.

This is what it looks like:

Nivel5_shipwrecked.jpg

TPcenV05_05.jpg

cave4.jpg

MattandPaige.jpg


Check out the trailer here:

http://youtu.be/vyJt8yMXxDg

Right now I'm working on different game (set in the same universe). The story for this one is just way too ambitious for our small team at the moment.

That looks rad
 

Mikado

Member
[...] inspect the first and last frames of the root position to get the total displacement. You can then do a little math and get out the speed you need to play the animation to make the character move at a specific speed allowing you to drive that from code.

In our game prototype, Canto, we have a lot of non-linear creature movements and a lot of potential cancels for player moves. We ended up encoding both the root velocity and the root angular velocity per frame (as opposed to the average of the animation) in a pre-processing step when the animations are compiled. This has the advantage that no matter how chaotic a creature's movement, the pelvis will always be right above the physics capsule (and pointed in the right direction) at pretty much any point in the animation. This also plays nice with physics and collision detection.

canto_76080296fcc9.jpg


Granted we're using our own engine, not Unity.
 

Feep

Banned
In our game prototype, Canto, we have a lot of non-linear creature movements and a lot of potential cancels for player moves. We ended up encoding both the root velocity and the root angular velocity per frame (as opposed to the average of the animation) in a pre-processing step when the animations are compiled. This has the advantage that no matter how chaotic a creature's movement, the pelvis will always be right above the physics capsule (and pointed in the right direction) at pretty much any point in the animation. This also plays nice with physics and collision detection.

canto_76080296fcc9.jpg


Granted we're using our own engine, not Unity.
Wow. That video is amazing.

To my knowledge, Unity 4.x does properly apply animation translation and rotation every frame. The animator components also provide delta motion if I need to do anything manual with it. So I should be okay.
 
I'm just getting started myself. Got a few questions.

1) What do you guys use to create sound effects?

2) What do you guys use to create 3D models? How about 2D graphics? My artist is pretty good with hand art, and I'm thinking of getting him set up with a tablet/drawing app combo.

Edit - He does not as of yet have the tablet. So you guys can recommend android or apple tablet apps. Thanks :)
 

Animator

Member
Wow this is the best thread I can't believe I haven't seen it before. Looking forward to sharing some stuff with you guys soon.
 

motorsep

Neo Member
I'm just getting started myself. Got a few questions.

1) What do you guys use to create sound effects?

A good studio mic, Audacity. Most of the times I either purchase foley sound effects to work with or simply outsource sound work to someone who knows what (s)he is doing :)

2) What do you guys use to create 3D models? How about 2D graphics? My artist is pretty good with hand art, and I'm thinking of getting him set up with a tablet/drawing app combo.

Blender for 3D ( www.blender.org ) and GIMP / Inkscape / Sketchbook Pro 6 for 2D.

Edit - He does not as of yet have the tablet. So you guys can recommend android or apple tablet apps. Thanks :)

I am not sure why would you need one of those tablets. If you need a tablet to draw / sculpt, get Wacom Bamboo Create (it's bigger than other Bamboo models).

If you are asking about tablet to make game for, get iPad if you already have Mac. If you don't have Mac (and you are on Windows / Linux), get Android tablet. Either way, neither iPad nor Android tabs are good for drawing.

If you can shell out $1000 then get Microsoft Surface Pro tablet - it's like PC at your fingertips, plus screen is pressure sensitive and you can achieve much better results drawing on it. It runs Win8, so all desktop apps will work on it out of the box.

P.S. Just saw this: http://cintiqcompanion.wacom.com/CintiqCompanion/en/ Now that's something I would definitely like to have myself :D
 
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