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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor
- Thread starter chubigans
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Thanks man! I'm the rigger/animator for the game and I needed a way to fix this since Dual Quaternions didn't work. I'll keep you posted on how this turns out.
The holes are pentagons. There have to be 12 for the hexagons to tile.
I know what you mean, man. Getting a good artist is hard as hell. Either they're totally inexperienced (lots of 10-16 year olds have contacted me to work on my game), or they're flaky folks who aren't interested in really doing a good job. Honestly, not sure what to do about this, but I don't understand why they're that way. When i worked at NCsoft the artists there were cool as hell. I'm starting to think that wasn't the norm. I've been looking for someone for months with no luck. Heh, I wish I would have continued art classes when i was in school....
Finding the right artist is tough - they either want way too much or they're way too inexperienced. Finding an artist who will work with you for indie rates is even tougher.
That being said, keep looking and don't stop. There's tons of CG forums out there that people are shopping around their work. Deviantart works too sometimes.
When you find an artist though, you can get great works like this:
Loving my artist to death, seriously
That being said, keep looking and don't stop. There's tons of CG forums out there that people are shopping around their work. Deviantart works too sometimes.
When you find an artist though, you can get great works like this:
Loving my artist to death, seriously
I think more often than not people under value artists, so if anything, I'm glad they are valuing their work at high/appropriate levels.
I'm not saying to undervalue your artists. I'm saying typically, from what I've searched for artists out there, is they are trying to get you to pay them at rates only major companies will pay. Which means it's hard for an indie studio to find someone that will work with you and create something great looking at the same time.
I keep posting art here trying to find more indie work, I am published by major players in the tabletop games industry, and several of my clients say I am amazing to work with because I keep in touch all the time and send updates; I've also never missed a deadline.
Sorry to hear you guys have had such a rough time with some artists.
I need to meet these guys apparently.
I don't think many artists working in the gaming industry are commanding that kind of pay, unless some indies and companies contracting out just pay WAY more than anything in the tabletop industry. Wizards of the Coast has pretty good rates, and they pay about $800 for a full page illo(definitely not a single day, and I'm not exactly saying it's a great rate either) which then breaks down into quarters depending on how much real-estate your art is taking up on the page...
Well you have to take into account that qualified artists are weighing your job against freelance art contracts from all sorts of sources. They'd probably rather be working on your game but they can be making anywhere from $250 - $800+ a day doing something less interesting but more lucrative.
Higher rates also tend to transfer ownership and other considerations.
What kind of game is this? Casual like Candy Crush?
My gut reaction would be to stick with your original plan and finish that first. Don't lose focus now. You might end up switching things up again and again, and never get anything shipped. At least let the new idea sit with you for a while before deciding. It might seem awesome just because it's fresh.
I think it's more than that. Some of them just don't want to do it, yet take the job and string things along without doing anything. This has happened many times to me. If I'm paying for something, then I want good quality work. Strangely enough, the best work I've gotten is from people who do things for free. They seem at least passionate enough to care about what they're doing. I have no idea why someone would take a job and then BS around for weeks with nothing to show for it and then expect to be paid.
However, I don't want to paint a picture that I think all artist are bad or self-serving. This is not the case. Perhaps there are people out there paying crazy rates and so people want to jump on that gravy train if they can. Which means my little low paying project isn't a priority. It's unfortunate, but the reality of it.
Just my experience has been mostly negative. Most of the art I've had done on my game so far has been people being nice enough to do things for free or on the cheap. I appreciate that, but it does mean keeping things consistent or getting very specific things done is hard.
What i find funny is that musicians are extremely easy to work with. I always have a lot of fun working with them.
I'm going to offer my raw opinion: You talk about monetization as a motivation. Remove that from the equation and think solely of the player experience. Is the game still what YOU envisioned it to be? Is it still the game you wanted to make? Is what you are about to change going to affect the player's perception of the game? If so, how? Will it increase the value (the player will think the game is better)? If so, then you should do it, for sure!
To go further, it sounds like offering both modes would be best, if possible. Are you going to go insane in doing so? If so, fall back to what will offer a better player experience.
I apologize for being so simply "Jesse Schell" about the player experience part of the game, but I honestly believe that if a game offers a better experience for the player at an ...ahem, "non-optimal" monetization model, it will still succeed...at least in some way.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
MikeHaggar, what are your requirements? If they're small, I may have time to help you, and if they're large I can ping some other artists for their availability. By requirements, I mean like how much art do you need? Is it minimalist Sword and Sworcery type stuff or full-blown SNES/PSX/GBA/DS-era pixels? Lots of animation? Also, budget range, since some of them are quite expensive.
AusRoachman
Member
Velociraptors are awesome, but velociraptors with guns is even better
Nice! However, I was thinking there needed to be some sort of belt-strap-helmet as well to provide more guns. Here, I added more guns just in case. I hope you don't mind.Velociraptors are awesome, but velociraptors with guns is even better
AusRoachman
Member
More guns is definite , and more types of guns (lasers , rockets etc ) , these are just a mishmash of asset store packs but I think they fit well together .
I have a number of units mapped out in my head but still deciding what Dino's will have what role e.t.c , velociraptors will be the scout style unit that is cheap , quick and minimal firepower . Trex will be the heavy unit with lots of firepower e.t.c
So glad the asset store exists for unity as it allows me to focus mainly on the coding side
I have a number of units mapped out in my head but still deciding what Dino's will have what role e.t.c , velociraptors will be the scout style unit that is cheap , quick and minimal firepower . Trex will be the heavy unit with lots of firepower e.t.c
So glad the asset store exists for unity as it allows me to focus mainly on the coding side
Just had a stroke of genius (I hope...) for a game idea. I've been semi-working on a couple different projects to see what sticks and any great ideas emerge, but this one, this one seems like a low hanging fruit just ripe for the taking!
Going to go full steam on this one I believe
Going to go full steam on this one I believe
Can you say why Dual Quaternions don't work for you in blending rigid
transformations for eliminating the candy warp? What have you tried?
Jack_AG: SUPER LONG BULLSHIT POST INCOMING
(some of the things he wrote may apply to you)
To sum up very vaguely, let's say it's a tic-tac-toe-like with many twists, that gives you the general kind of game it is. I agree with you that's why I'm still continuing what I'm doing right now and letting the idea float around my head a bit, thinking about the implications.
It doesn't really feel "awesome" as you say ... more ... "just as right" as my competitive idea. That's why I'm considering doing both side by side.
Actually monetization isn't the motivation that made me think about this game mode. The reveal just popped in my head looking at other games. But monetization is a real perk of doing this mode.
I won't lie, of course I'm thinking about monetization, and I have been since the first day. If I want to make a decent living and continue making games, I think I have to think about it early. I don't intend to let it take over player's fun or experience. I think that it has more chances to happen if you completely forget about it and finally decide to include it at the last time.
About your other points, I really think that both modes are different, but have something nice to offer to the player. One is more slow paced, more puzzle, the other is more strategic and agressive. In my mind they could be played side by side by many players, such as, let's say, Mario Kart's races and battle modes.
Doing both wouldn't be incredibly hard since, in order to code the competitive mode, I've nearly done all the mechanisms and concepts that would apply to the "puzzle mode".
Just a few menus, and the biggest hassle, doing the levels and balancing them right.
Don't worry about your "Jesse Schell" side, I think all of us here want to put the player's experience first, even if sometimes it can not be the "business priority" of the product.
Thanks missile, will read now and report
Velociraptors are awesome, but velociraptors with guns is even better
very cool, but if I might just make a tiny suggestion, the green is too big and rich and strong, it's gonna hurt people
I think they're using Unity and that method isn't supported there, at least not without third-party tools. I did a test model up with DQ probably a year ago and it interpreted it as linear instead with no option to change that; I'd bet that hasn't changed since.
I second this. The dinosaurs are almost lost against such an intense backdrop; either they should be adjusted or the background should, because they currently don't mesh too well.very cool, but if I might just make a tiny suggestion, the green is too big and rich and strong, it's gonna hurt people
Maybe the green is too big to fail though.
It may help if the hue of the green is closer to blue than yellow, so you don't have to sacrifice your saturation if you like that.
Notice how much more noticeable the striped areas on the dino are even though it has been untouched.
MikeHaggar
Member
i'm glad to see that it's not just me experiencing these challenges. however, i wish that none of us were encountering such difficulties. at any rate, all i can say is that we should just keep at it and try not to get discouraged. i am very, very set on bringing this game to life and releasing it.
that's cool of you. i sent you a pm.
that's cool of you. i sent you a pm.
AusRoachman
Member
I think they're using Unity and that method isn't supported there, at least not without third-party tools. I did a test model up with DQ probably a year ago and it interpreted it as linear instead with no option to change that; I'd bet that hasn't changed since.
I second this. The dinosaurs are almost lost against such an intense backdrop; either they should be adjusted or the background should, because they currently don't mesh too well.
Maybe the green is too big to fail though.
It may help if the hue of the green is closer to blue than yellow, so you don't have to sacrifice your saturation if you like that.
Notice how much more noticeable the striped areas on the dino are even though it has been untouched.
Good suggestion, i will tone it down, i was thinking of going abstract / bright colours but i think ill try your suggestion. Environment still has plenty to come, grass/trees/water e.t.c
I've got some more resolution questions if you don't mind me asking.
So If I want my game to look amazing on a super high resolution, like 1920x1080, do I have to create art assets based on that? And then downscale everything to fit on smaller resolutions and screens, like the Vita? But doing it that way I'd surely lose a lot of detail once I scale it down.
Or is another route to think of smaller resolutions first, and then upscale everything? I guess I'm just concerned the art will look blurry and gross when you play it at a large resolution.
Should I choose a middle ground and then work from there?
Also, if I wanted to like, put it on PS4 or something, should I strive for HD resolution?
So clueless!
Thanks guys.
So If I want my game to look amazing on a super high resolution, like 1920x1080, do I have to create art assets based on that? And then downscale everything to fit on smaller resolutions and screens, like the Vita? But doing it that way I'd surely lose a lot of detail once I scale it down.
Or is another route to think of smaller resolutions first, and then upscale everything? I guess I'm just concerned the art will look blurry and gross when you play it at a large resolution.
Should I choose a middle ground and then work from there?
Also, if I wanted to like, put it on PS4 or something, should I strive for HD resolution?
So clueless!
Thanks guys.
Hoping to get some feedback on this screen here, any and all critiques welcomed.
It's an area select screen, you move your meeple there around to select different areas, the gold coin (which I'm currently redoing) indicates there's a quest or someone to talk to in that area.
Much appreciated in advance.
It's an area select screen, you move your meeple there around to select different areas, the gold coin (which I'm currently redoing) indicates there's a quest or someone to talk to in that area.
Much appreciated in advance.
So long as your assets are vector, you scale the vector and rasterize it, you won't loose any quality. You'll have to tell the engine to use different banks of assets depending on the resolution the user is running.
Alternate, if memory is not a concern you can make everything the highest resolution and downsample but its really inefficient.
The trick is going to be to make sure that your smaller assets aren't hard to read when they're shown on a smaller resolution.
So basically if you're working in vector, draw everything how you'd see it on your smallest screen, then when you rasterize those vector objects make sure you rasterize them at the higher resolution.
Now, what if I decided not to work in vector graphics? The reason I ask is because my artist and I ended up liking the work he did more in it's more "organic" style than the clean vector one. So now we can't use vector magic anymore. In this case, should I aim for a middle ground?
MikeHaggar
Member
Hoping to get some feedback on this screen here, any and all critiques welcomed.
It's an area select screen, you move your meeple there around to select different areas, the gold coin (which I'm currently redoing) indicates there's a quest or someone to talk to in that area.
Much appreciated in advance.
i'd suggest considering not obscuring the graphic for each area with the marker. perhaps you could make the gold coin smaller and put it to the left of the name of the town? that way, the graphic representing the area is still visible and not obscured. other than that, i think the screen is laid out well and clear.
In that case you should aim for doing everything at your highest quality bar that your memory budget allows (but again keeping in mind it needs to read when it's scaled down). You'll have to accept a certain level of imperfections at varying resolutions.
Excellent point, I'll give that a try.
Hey guys, quick question for y'all. I'm launching a kickstarter for my game soon, and something I'm stumped on is coming up with the name of the studio. I'm not going to ask for ideas, since I think that's the wrong way to go about it. Instead, I'd like to ask you all, if you have a studio name, how did you go about coming up with it?
TheHollowNight
Member
I found our studio name by chance. We were going to be called Chromatic (Development) but another company had that trademark registered sadly. I was looking around for random words that sounded sorta similar phonetically, & discovered the word Monothetic. One word, sounds pretty cool, rolls off the tongue & has a cool meaning which embodies how the team operates...kinda
I haven't officially opened my studio yet because there's not really any need until I'm closer to completion and it's just me at the moment. With that said, I plan to start an limited liability called Five Interactive Videogame Entertainment, LCC, or just FIVE for short.
I've been obsessed with the number five since I was a teenager. As stupid as it sounds, I got it from a series of prank calls I made when I was in junior high. I'd find peoples' phone numbers that I shouldn't have had, then call them with my number withheld and pretend to be stalking them saying things like "I know your secret, <insert name>." When the first person I did this to asked who I was, I told her my name was Five, and then that moniker stuck. In the time since, I've named every computer I've owned as some derivative of five (Quinque, Vee, Four++). The "Interactive Videogame Entertainment" part was added because I figured "Five" might already be some business' name somewhere, and I thought it'd be funny to have a recursive name.
Pasta_Soup
Member
Hey guys!
It's been a little while, but we've just launched a new demo along with our Kickstarter for Olympia Rising. A lot of the feedback we received here was very helpful, and we applied a good chunk of it to our new demo.
Feel free to play it here: http://or.paleozoic.com
And you can check out the Kickstarter here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/paleozoic/olympia-rising
All feedback and support is greatly appreciated!
Some newer screenshots/gifs:
It's been a little while, but we've just launched a new demo along with our Kickstarter for Olympia Rising. A lot of the feedback we received here was very helpful, and we applied a good chunk of it to our new demo.
Feel free to play it here: http://or.paleozoic.com
And you can check out the Kickstarter here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/paleozoic/olympia-rising
All feedback and support is greatly appreciated!
Some newer screenshots/gifs:
(Somehow, I only seem to come in here to vent. Sorry about that)
The Unity people seriously hate everyone that doesn't want to use their editor and prefab system for everything, don't they?
There is no way of setting up or modifying all the parameters of a particle system, either legacy or shuriken. You want to edit the ellipsoid size in legacy? Nope, not yours. You want to set up or edit any of the modules in shuriken from your code? Let's all laugh at you. "Just create 50 billion prefabs and switch between those with Instantiate, adding them as children to your game object!"
Whyyyyyyy...
(It becomes even worse when you check out all the other forum threads and everybody else rants about it for years, but no solutions are forthcoming)
The Unity people seriously hate everyone that doesn't want to use their editor and prefab system for everything, don't they?
There is no way of setting up or modifying all the parameters of a particle system, either legacy or shuriken. You want to edit the ellipsoid size in legacy? Nope, not yours. You want to set up or edit any of the modules in shuriken from your code? Let's all laugh at you. "Just create 50 billion prefabs and switch between those with Instantiate, adding them as children to your game object!"
Whyyyyyyy...
(It becomes even worse when you check out all the other forum threads and everybody else rants about it for years, but no solutions are forthcoming)
HellBlazer
Member
"Please use a controller." Um, how? It doesn't seem to detect my 360 pad. I can't make it past the fourth level with a keyboard. >_< The "magic jump" seems a bit wonky... but maybe I just need more practice with it (and a controller). Anyway, seems like a fun game. And just $5 to get it? Will support IndieGAF.
MikeHaggar
Member
i normally don't play games on the pc, but i'll be backing this as well. good luck to you guys on your kickstarter!
I finally started messing with the GLSL Sandbox website. I wanted to be able to draw a grid so I tried this:
https://glsl.heroku.com/e#13645.1
https://glsl.heroku.com/e#13645.1
What about programming it yourself (let Feep do it
)? If one is already familiar with quaternions (math/programming-wise), dual
quaternions aren't too far away. A simple and fast algorithm for convex-
blending of rigid transformations is given by a simple linear-convex
combination of their dual quaternion representations, i.e.
(*)
a = w1*q1 + ... + wn*qn
b = a / |a|
with w{1,...,n} the convex weights and q{1,...,n} the dual quaternions
representing a rigid transformation each. Basically, given a set of rigid
transformations influencing a vertex v of a mesh and given the convex weights
for each rigid transformation, then one converts these transformations to dual
quaternions, compute the resultant dual quaternion b and converts it back to
a matrix getting multiplied with the vertex v yielding the transformed
vertex.
The simple algorithm above has just one minor drawback, it isn't of constant
speed (the interpolated rotation angle does not necessarily vary linearly) and
has a drift in translation, but all to a certain small amount, yet it is of
shortest path. Anyhow, an iterative algorithm can be given (utilizing (*))
making the interpolation of constant speed with no drift up to a desired
precision. But this involves exponentials and logarithms of dual quaternions.
Missile, I would guess issues include:
1. Feep doesn't want to do it (and the time to understand, experiment, and implement exceeds the time it would take to work around the issue in the model)
2. Feep's new programmer may not want to do it
3. Perhaps most importantly, I am not sure if Unity provides that level of animation/model engine tailoring. Someone was just recently complaining about not being able to tailor a different aspect of Unity. Correct me if I am wrong of course since I don't use Unity much at all.
1. Feep doesn't want to do it (and the time to understand, experiment, and implement exceeds the time it would take to work around the issue in the model)
2. Feep's new programmer may not want to do it
3. Perhaps most importantly, I am not sure if Unity provides that level of animation/model engine tailoring. Someone was just recently complaining about not being able to tailor a different aspect of Unity. Correct me if I am wrong of course since I don't use Unity much at all.
xDMissile, I would guess issues include:
1. Feep doesn't want to do it (and the time to understand, experiment, and implement exceeds the time it would take to work around the issue in the model)
2. Feep's new programmer may not want to do it
3. Perhaps most importantly, I am not sure if Unity provides that level of animation/model engine tailoring. Someone was just recently complaining about not being able to tailor a different aspect of Unity. Correct me if I am wrong of course since I don't use Unity much at all.
(1) Indeed, implementing the dual quaternions requires some attention. But if
one has already implemented a standard quaternion class, it's doable. But if
not, well, it may become bumpy ride.
(2) Feep should write it in the contract! Easy!
(3) Really? Sux, if true.
Hey guys,
I have been following the posts from this thread for a while and I would like to congrats every indie developer who contributes with his passion to make this community bigger.
On the other hand, now, I have the chance that I was waiting for a long time, to show you our almost finished game, called Chronology, that is currently on Steam Greenlight.
The game it’s about and Old Inventor, who needs to defy the time by manipulating the past and future to fix the present where a mysterious catastrophic event took place.
In the project, my role was as an art director, here you can see the result of my work :
Video link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0GlGYbJH5I
If you would like to find more information regarding the game, like concept art, you can visit the game Steam Greenlight link.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=205091899
Thanks for reading it and if you have any feedback I would be happy to answer
I have been following the posts from this thread for a while and I would like to congrats every indie developer who contributes with his passion to make this community bigger.
On the other hand, now, I have the chance that I was waiting for a long time, to show you our almost finished game, called Chronology, that is currently on Steam Greenlight.
The game it’s about and Old Inventor, who needs to defy the time by manipulating the past and future to fix the present where a mysterious catastrophic event took place.
In the project, my role was as an art director, here you can see the result of my work :
Video link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0GlGYbJH5I
If you would like to find more information regarding the game, like concept art, you can visit the game Steam Greenlight link.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=205091899
Thanks for reading it and if you have any feedback I would be happy to answer
Looking really nice, love the artstyle and it has a particular vibe, a thing I think is hard to do nowadays in 2D, so congrats
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
Yes, I've been annoyed a few times in unity where I've wanted to access things in code but couldn't. I think the unity people just have so many things they are trying to improve/implement that they can't keep up with it.
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