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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor

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friken

Member
... just wanted to let everyone know that we'll be showing Olympia Rising at PAX East this weekend! We'll be in the Kickstarter Arcade area, room 105. So if you're attending PAX, stop by if you're interesting in playing the latest Olympia Rising build. Hope to see some of you guys there!

Some random gifs!

The game is looking fun. I really like the slow motion when you kill an enemy. Not too long lived to be annoying, but a nice feedback to the player. Well done!
 

Feep

Banned
Had to move my trailer and announce to Thursday. There's just a bizarre amount of big-name news coming tomorrow...I'd get lost in the shuffle. = (
 

Jobbs

Banned
Had to move my trailer and announce to Thursday. There's just a bizarre amount of big-name news coming tomorrow...I'd get lost in the shuffle. = (

getting my gifs ready.

omg.gif
 

fin

Member
Nice article! Good to see this getting attention. Been playing your game, it's awesome. Hard, but so rewarding when you get that aha moment. I doubt the Swapper will be coming to IOS any time soon, but Instantion is a worthy substitute

Thanks!

I just found this too, the first 'let's play' video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwOMdjOWbMQ&feature=youtu.be&a

It'll be interesting if he does a series on it. See how he plays it...

Super exciting times.
 

missile

Member
Thanks!

I just found this too, the first 'let's play' video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwOMdjOWbMQ&feature=youtu.be&a

It'll be interesting if he does a series on it. See how he plays it...

Super exciting times.

Well done, mate! :+ Is this your first game being released?


Well said.

I wanted to share w/ the group an example of ego bruising I went through recently that was much needed. We had spent countless hours working and reworking our aliens from concept sketches to something usable in-game. WAY WAY too much time per alien in hopes that once we figured out the first one the process would be easier the next. Here is where we were:

Voolgard-1.jpg

Frik-Bridge5.jpg


We received some positive feedback, 'cool aliens', 'I like it' etc but a friend I've known a long time had quite different things to say. 'looks really pasted', 'really clashes style with the 2.5d in-game art', 'looks like you are shooting for AAA art and getting a B', 'When shooting for AAA art and not hitting the mark you get zero credit for the effort', 'You'd be better off with a pixel art style or something you can pull off', 'maybe keeping the art a family endeavor isn't a good idea?', 'while the art concepts are good, the end result will just have people say amateur art'.

Man.... if I wasn't friends with him for the last couple decades I may have told him where he could stick his opinions. We had spent soooooo much effort to get to that stage from sketches (100s of hours). In the end I started trying to step back and compare where we were to the best art of aliens we could find on google images. Yep... he was right, our best wasn't good enough. Ego bruising indeed.

I was depressed, and frustrated for several days. Our 3 person, family only, team didn't have the skill to pull off what I really wanted to do. We had to make the very hard call to expand our 'family only' project and recruit an artist with the skills we lacked. The feedback we are receiving with more professional art has been night and day different than before. Far more retweets, more users following the project, we have even gotten a little press interest. We may still not have the most amazing AAA art I've ever seen, but we are at least a lot closer and hopefully within reach as we improve and tweak stuff.

iYbfj4E3sPbgN.gif

iQ2sMtVVR6CWu.gif
q.e.d.

Despite the original picture (first one, the alien) isn't bad from a drawing
perspective, its improvement is well worth the effort. It has much more depth.

Critic is perhaps the only way to get out of your head, away from your very
own perspective, which is quite hard to do even if you try to. Recently, I
wrote a small paragraph (two pages back) about the imperfections artists do
implement in their pictures while saying that such imperfections will call for
your attention since they somehow contradict your way of thinking. Then I said
how such an imperfection is sort of a carrier around which a hidden message
(from the artist) is modulated ready to find out by yourself. Critic is
similar in that the critic itself can be considered just as the carrier, while
the real message being transported isn't so obvious. The stated critic may
seem blunt, inappropriate, or even rude from the outset. Most often the one
who writes the critic has also some difficulty in expressing the critic in
good/kind words, yet (s)he feels it -- the real message so to speak.

The implication is the following. Every time someone criticizes my work I try
to understand where (s)he is coming from, from which perspective (often be
different than mine) (s)he approaches the object in question, because I know
that there is much more to the critic than just the words said or written. The
real message lies between the lines. To stick with signal theory, the real
message lies in the sidebands of the carrier! Funny, heh?

Back to coding...
 

missile

Member
Gems of Retro

0EK5fJn.png
OhtI1hu.png


Here I do spoil some of may PAL encoder/decoder work, which I do not want
to go much into for now. The only thing I can say is that the underlying
en/decoder pair is modeled after the first PAL standard and uses very bad
en/decoder components as was done back then. The stripes you see in the right
pictures (left original due to razu :D) aren't scanline. There aren't any CRT
features implemented yet, just the pure signal. The bars result from PALs
phase alternation to reduce phase/color errors. The first PAL decoders didn't
had a delay line to average these lines out, which, while the phase error
increases, become known as the hanover bars. In earlier TVs those lines where
visible sitting up close and esp. when the signal gets distorted too much in
phase/color. There is many more in the picture I can't get into for now. Yet
let me say I like the dot crawl effect so much! 8)

~ earlier work of the RetroIIID Engine ~
 

razu

Member
Gems of Retro

0EK5fJn.png
OhtI1hu.png


Here I do spoil some of may PAL encoder/decoder work, which I do not want
to go much into for now. The only thing I can say is that the underlying
en/decoder pair is modeled after the first PAL standard and uses very bad
en/decoder components as was done back then. The stripes you see in the right
pictures (left original due to razu :D) aren't scanline. There aren't any CRT
features implemented yet, just the pure signal. The bars result from PALs
phase alternation to reduce phase/color errors. The first PAL decoders didn't
had a delay line to average these lines out, which, while the phase error
increases, become known as the hanover bars. In earlier TVs those lines where
visible sitting up close and esp. when the signal gets distorted too much in
phase/color. There is many more in the picture I can't get into for now. Yet
let me say I like the dot crawl effect so much! 8)

~ earlier work of the RetroIIID Engine ~

See, now that's cool.

My only critic... is that it should be critique ;D
 

fin

Member
Well done, mate! :+ Is this your first game being released?

Yup sure is, first one I'm selling. So had to do all the business stuff. It's actually my third game. First was this Battletoads hover-bike homage, Hoverbikes are Rad and I made a minesweeper clone in a weekend. So far I'm doing pretty good with finishing what I start :) I read about people not finishing projects all the time, and I've struggled with it too.

It's awesome I first downloaded Unity after PAX 2011 and I've found a hobby that I think I'll be doing for the rest of my life. Can't wait to start something new! Although, if Instantion does ok I'll be investing more time into it.
 
Haven't posted in a while, been busy working (though I have been lurking a bit, and there's been a lot of great stuff here) , but just wanted to let everyone know that we'll be showing Olympia Rising at PAX East this weekend! We'll be in the Kickstarter Arcade area, room 105. So if you're attending PAX, stop by if you're interesting in playing the latest Olympia Rising build. Hope to see some of you guys there!

Some random gifs!





This looks like a lot of fun. Reminds me a little of Legend of Kage for the NES. I wish I could attend PAX. Next year for sure.
 

missile

Member
Yup sure is, first one I'm selling. So had to do all the business stuff. It's actually my third game. First was this Battletoads hover-bike homage, Hoverbikes are Rad and I made a minesweeper clone in a weekend. So far I'm doing pretty good with finishing what I start :) I read about people not finishing projects all the time, and I've struggled with it too.

It's awesome I first downloaded Unity after PAX 2011 and I've found a hobby that I think I'll be doing for the rest of my life. Can't wait to start something new! Although, if Instantion does ok I'll be investing more time into it.
Sounds amazing! Good luck for the next one! :+


See, now that's cool.

My only critic... is that it should be critique ;D
Oh yeah, thanks for the critique! I knew something was wrong with the word!


For those a bit more technically interested...

BlRwMbO.png


See the color ringing on the left below? This is called color bleeding due to
higher luma frequencies (stronge change in luma) reaching into the chroma/
color spectrum. Within the chroma spectrum these higher frequencies are seen
as changing colors. And upon reconstruction of the color components out of the
chroma signal of the composite video signal, additional false colors are
reproduced. This color ringing effect becomes rather noticeable on pixel
boundaries where luma changes drastically. However, natural scenes do not
suffer from it that much, yet many of you have seen those red/green color
moirés if someone on video wears a pin-striped suit while being filmed at a
certain distance. This effect is due to this issue. Computer generated imagery
on the contrary do produce sharp changes in luma quite easily, which was the
reason why many gamers had to deal with this effect during the '80 and '90
while playing their favorite games on a PAL TV (NTSC has the same issue).
Engineers have tried to diminish this effect further and further while
applying more improved filtering to composite video for over decades up until
component video like S-Video, Y'PbPr, and RGB took over where color bleeding
doesn't occur. The following image shows only the transmitted luma component
of the image above with no chroma while being decoded on a color TV showing
where luma bleeds color. And I like it! :)

NDkmnAl.png


Color bleeding, an effect quite annoying while watching black-and-white
movies on a PAL/NTSC color TV. Earlier TVs had a color killer to switch the
color decoder from the decoder network to prevent decoding color where there
isn't any.

The dot crawl effect in composite video is the opposite of color bleeding. It
is caused by luma bleeding. Higher chroma/color frequencies can reach into
the luma spectrum. There the higher chroma frequencies are interpreted as
higher luma frequencies. And since higher luma frequencies are associated with
luma changing rapidly, a dot pattern occurs. This was a very pronounced effect
back in the days.

Well, next to many other things, both of these effects are a must have for
reproducing proper retro graphics, yet they need to be balanced tightly esp.
for realtime animated graphics. The final engine won't show these effects so
pronounced as here. There will be much more filtering going on at the en/
decoder stages. Additionally, simulation of an CRT's beam will smooth/gaussian
the image even further. Hence, the images shown here are sort of raw
unfiltered material. Development shots.
 

Turfster

Member
Unity released the public preview of their Playstation Mobile build option.
Seems... temperamental, at the moment.
Edit: Also, "no fees" is a blatant lie, since you apparently need to sign up for a yearly PSM Publisher License before you can actually even test on the device...
Edit edit: which is now free, apparently?
Why the hell does it have a Purchase section at the end?
Edit edit edit: That's a lot of hoops...
 

friken

Member
q.e.d.
...

Lol... I had to look that one up:

Q.E.D. is an initialism of the Latin phrase quod erat demonstrandum, originating from the Greek analogous hóper édei deîxai (ὅπερ ἔδει δεῖξαι), meaning "which had to be demonstrated".
 

Bit-Bit

Member
I finally got a prototype working how I want it to.

So I'm thinking I can just build the whole game with placeholder assets, then when the gameplay is perfected, I'll just add the art assets.

Has anyone here done something similiar?
 

Turfster

Member
I finally got a prototype working how I want it to.

So I'm thinking I can just build the whole game with placeholder assets, then when the gameplay is perfected, I'll just add the art assets.

Has anyone here done something similiar?

Depending on how placeholder your placeholders are, this usually ends the first time you find yourself 'fixing' something to make your placeholder assets not glitch/work properly.
 

cbox

Member
I finally got a prototype working how I want it to.

So I'm thinking I can just build the whole game with placeholder assets, then when the gameplay is perfected, I'll just add the art assets.

Has anyone here done something similiar?

Unless you have your vision set in stone, you'll always find a way for an asset to look/perform better. I'd say start with some simple assets, and then when you're happy with how the game feels, then start adding in final art. Sometimes the art just doesn't jive together when in game, and it needs to be adjusted.

We spent WAY too much time redoing our art, and replacing in game assets. Thankfully it's pretty easy to do, just wish we nailed the concept & gameplay first before worrying how good it looked.
 

Jobbs

Banned
experimenting with more shader effects, as jon (creator of stencyl) implements them. The shaders talk directly to the video card and seem to have no measurable effect on performance, which is great as I'm using several at once most the time now.

warble3.gif


this is a subtle underwater or heat type distortion effect I came up with by playing with the values in a wave effect shader. some variant of this could also be used in a blanket fashion just to make an organic map look vaguely "alive" as an arbitrary presentation decision, which I like. I hate static, I love motion.

the use of various shaders has really taken my game's presentation up a few notches (in my opinion, maybe some will defer, as always seems to happen). I'm pretty excited by it.
 

lashman

Steam-GAF's Official Ambassador to Gaming-GAF
Wow, that's really good!

I need the name, intended platforms and release date :p

thanks, glad you like it :D

as for the name - we're still working on it :p so - no release date either ;)

as for the platforms - it'll most probably be windows only ... and DX11 only - we just want to make it look as good as possible :)
 

friken

Member
I finally got a prototype working how I want it to.

So I'm thinking I can just build the whole game with placeholder assets, then when the gameplay is perfected, I'll just add the art assets.

Has anyone here done something similiar?

I loved watching the indie game movie where they showed how the Braid dev used terrible placeholders to develop the game play before putting in the beautiful assets the game is now known for.

I wish I could be motivated doing it that way. But, I find my personal workflow and motivations don't align with that method. I derive fuel from seeing assets come to life with the gameplay ideas and those then spawn more ideas for improvements. So all assets for us go through initial stab at it, to various improvements during implementation. It is a long, tedious process and I often wish my dev style was closer to what Braid did as it sounds like it would cut down on the overall amount of work.
 

friken

Member
experimenting with more shader effects, as jon (creator of stencyl) implements them.

Very nice looking. I hope you add some underwater areas, it would fit really well. Full scene shaders can do some amazing stuff. I'm a big fan and am using them in a number of ways for our project too.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Very nice looking. I hope you add some underwater areas, it would fit really well. Full scene shaders can do some amazing stuff. I'm a big fan and am using them in a number of ways for our project too.

thanks you :)

as currently there are no under WATER areas, but there are under-acid areas...
 

Bit-Bit

Member
I loved watching the indie game movie where they showed how the Braid dev used terrible placeholders to develop the game play before putting in the beautiful assets the game is now known for.

I wish I could be motivated doing it that way. But, I find my personal workflow and motivations don't align with that method. I derive fuel from seeing assets come to life with the gameplay ideas and those then spawn more ideas for improvements. So all assets for us go through initial stab at it, to various improvements during implementation. It is a long, tedious process and I often wish my dev style was closer to what Braid did as it sounds like it would cut down on the overall amount of work.

Funny you should mention.

Blow gives a really great talk on prototyping. http://youtu.be/ISutk1mauPM
 

Phandy

Member
Gifcam is so awesome for capturing bugs. Can't wait to fill a tumblr with dumb gifs.

If you can't roll... fly!
roll.gif


Edit: Here's BlockoutBlue being creepy.
INSISTENT.gif
 

friken

Member
thanks you :)

as currently there are no under WATER areas, but there are under-acid areas...

under-acid areas... sounds cool, any screenshots/gifs? <drool>

Funny you should mention.

Blow gives a really great talk on prototyping. http://youtu.be/ISutk1mauPM

Thanks for the link, great talk he gave.

This week is off to a great start. Lipok animation is in-game:


Our Intro story sequence art is making progress:


And our next alien race moves from concept sketch to ready for animation:
 

missile

Member
Good morning from Vienna! Btw; Anyone here from Austria as well?


Lol... I had to look that one up:

Q.E.D. is an initialism of the Latin phrase quod erat demonstrandum, originating from the Greek analogous hóper édei deîxai (&#8005;&#960;&#949;&#961; &#7956;&#948;&#949;&#953; &#948;&#949;&#8150;&#958;&#945;&#953;), meaning "which had to be demonstrated".
Many people draw a square. :) But I thought it would go unnoticed.


... We spent WAY too much time redoing our art, and replacing in game assets. Thankfully it's pretty easy to do, just wish we nailed the concept & gameplay first before worrying how good it looked.
Do you have sort of a history how the game has evolved over time?


thanks you :)

as currently there are no under WATER areas, but there are under-acid areas...
Under-acid areas. Cool!


... And our next alien race moves from concept sketch to ready for animation:
Uh Jesus, that's a nice one. Is he/she/it the boss of the gorilla alien?
 

missile

Member
Really interesting stuff! I LOVE how it looks.
Glad you like it. Much more to come. I'm also intending to simulate HF/VHF/UHF
modulators to distorted/degrade the signal even further for example by areal
issues like obstacles (reflections) or electromagnetic distortion, and also by
network component issues like for example power-line frequency instability.
 
Hey guys,

If there are any artist who has an idea for a 2D game but hasn't got anyone to help them PM me as I recently started learning Unity 2D and would like to make a game with it in my spare time.

I am a lead programmer in a small studio in the north west of the UK and have 5 released games to my name.
 

Makai

Member
Nice, Jobbs!
Well, next to many other things, both of these effects are a must have for reproducing proper retro graphics, yet they need to be balanced tightly esp.
for realtime animated graphics.
Missile, can you show us a high resolution shot of these effects (without pixel scaling)?
 

desu

Member
experimenting with more shader effects, as jon (creator of stencyl) implements them. The shaders talk directly to the video card and seem to have no measurable effect on performance, which is great as I'm using several at once most the time now..

Have barely time for following the project, but I thought you had switched to Unity?
 

cbox

Member
Do you have sort of a history how the game has evolved over time?

We do yeah, pretty extensive too. Though I had an original vision right from the getgo, there are always minor tweaks that occur. I also am never satisfied with something and often change my designs many times over until I reach something i"m ultimately happy with. I'm going to do an " evolution" post sometime soon once I have some time that will show everything, here's one from just the main ship design.

qdLo2B2.png
 

friken

Member
We finished the hair animation for the gunner and this is the result:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZczQEZNvUA

I'm now redrawing the majority of her head animation frames as my partner told me that they are not good enough and she's right.

Very cool hair animation, nice work. The youtube video on hd/720p looks like youtube compression munched it until 11 seconds in. I thought it was just the typical youtube lag on switching to hd, but even after a couple refreshes it looks like something else going. On the compression and quality jumps 5x at 11 seconds.

One minor suggestion, consider making the vehicle a different color than the hair. I'd try darkening the vehicle to a dark red or even a completely diff color so it doesn't distract from the cool characterization of the hair.
 
Very cool hair animation, nice work. The youtube video on hd/720p looks like youtube compression munched it until 11 seconds in. I thought it was just the typical youtube lag on switching to hd, but even after a couple refreshes it looks like something else going. On the compression and quality jumps 5x at 11 seconds.

One minor suggestion, consider making the vehicle a different color than the hair. I'd try darkening the vehicle to a dark red or even a completely diff color so it doesn't distract from the cool characterization of the hair.

Yeah, something about the image definitely bugs me. This is probably spot on. You can really only have the vehicle, or the player be prominent, not both. It just looks like a sea of red. Also I'd say the hair is a bit too hectic? Something is bugging me from an animation standpoint, but I really like the idea.

Maybe it feels kinda mechanical? Not enough bounce to it?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Unity released the public preview of their Playstation Mobile build option.
Seems... temperamental, at the moment.
Edit: Also, "no fees" is a blatant lie, since you apparently need to sign up for a yearly PSM Publisher License before you can actually even test on the device...
Edit edit: which is now free, apparently?
Why the hell does it have a Purchase section at the end?
Edit edit edit: That's a lot of hoops...

Especially if you're not on windows. And their publisher registration isn't automatic...

But, I think an underreported aspect of this is that it basically allows you to exploit Vita's full power, as if it were a native Vita app. Unity for PSM is for Vita only and uses the same runtime environment as native Unity for Vita. It's not using the previous more limited PSM runtime environment.

So basically 'open', 'free' publishing of full-fat Vita software. Minus full PSN integration...
 
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