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[NipplesAndToes23]

Why are women's stats so incredibly low especially white women?

I feel that there definitely is some racism involved despite what some people think. It may just be subconscious, but to think it's only subconscious is very close minded considering how many people are involved. In terms of workforce I hate how I've been told that I can't get a job with dreads. Like I have to have the generic black man even cut or fade to get a decent job. Going off mass media I believe there is some truth to this as the images of black men and women on TV is very limited. If we had more black people control these businesses then our natural hair would be acceptable in the work force and we can get more representation in the media. That is one of the reasons why I want to run a major video game publishing company so that there would be one less place where someone is too concerned about your image and to get more black culture representation in video games. If more black people see themselves in the medium, then there will be more that will be interested in getting into the field.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

personal responsibility.

So your answer to the incarceration rates among black americans is to throw more of them into jail.

"Civil rights? We won!"

give me a break

 

[Amir0x]

I kinda skimmed it the first time and looked mostly at the charts. I see what he wrote now in the 3rd paragraph.

And yes, 1 in 3 black men going to prison in their lifetime statistically is an insane number.

My mom is 100% Puerto Rican, so I understand the issues with Hispanic discrimination quite well. So don't think I'm ignoring it. It's just if I try to gather the data for every individual minority

1. The info dump would be so large even less people would read it.
2. It would take me forever and I don't have that much time
3. Make things even more complicated to discuss.

I think a truthful discussion of this issue would necessarily involve understanding that even though Blacks in America are amongst the worst off minorities in the country, institutional racism impacts almost everyone of color. The only minority group not effected at the statistical level by this is Asian minorities, which is a whole different interesting topic. Because they still experience racism, but for some reason the institutional barriers are far less encumbering for that group. I would actually like to see someone discuss that topic since I'm less familiar with it and always like to learn.

Very informative OP Ami.

My two teenage kids are mixed. They are both on the darker side of the color spectrum. It really saddens me that strictly because of that they will undoubtedly not receive the same treatment that their pasty white dad gets. I've already needed to have 'the talk' about how to conduct themselves around the police. That was difficult because I couldn't speak from experience but it's something I had to do.

I try to educate myself as much as possible about the hardships in life that they might face due to the pigment in their skin. It's incredibly sad we are still at this place in American society with no real answers on how to move forward.

My sister, who is married to a Black man, was watching the Eric Garner stuff and her son - who is six - walked in on her crying. He says to her "don't worry mommy, my skin is light enough so they won't hurt me too, right?"

One of the things that gets me, as someone of mixed race and someone who has black nephews and nieces, is how different their life experience will be than mine just by virtue of being born who they were.

I can "pass for white" at a glance, but they have to worry about police violence and employment bias and all sorts of terrible worldly impacts. It's made me even more passionate about the subject than I already was, because it pains me to know that as smart and well behaved as they are they might have someone judge them just because of a fact independent from anything they get to choose.

So I fight for this stuff. I march with the protestors in NYC. I donate to the right channels. And I am part of organizations that fight issues that impact race (I'm a member of a worldwide anti-slavery organization, for example. There are over 21,000,000 slaves in the world, more than at the height of the slave trade).

But it feels so helpless sometimes... and since I have issues with depression as it is, sometimes I have to find ways to keep positive by intentionally searching for the lone good bits of data in a sea of negative

Now that's out the way, I'll talk about my experiences with institutional racism. I lived in an area in Cleveland, Ohio that few people make it out of without dying or getting caught up in the street life. People were doing their best to survive in an economy without jobs and lack of resources to achieve success. The crime rate was high because people had to commit crime to survive. Remember, we're looked down upon whenever we take government aid but the other people are pitied/helped so there's that. I had to basically sell my soul and remove myself from that situation. Most people don't have that option and even if they did they wouldn't take it because it's a solitary path. For reference, I went to mixed kindergarten, elementary, and middle schools before going to all black high school.

For me institutional racism is a system setup to disenfranchise people of color. They tell you when you're growing up to work, go to college, graduate then get married. My main issue heading into college was I had to fight to survive whereas these other people grew up in sitcoms. There was a fundamental disconnect in approaches to interactions based on upbringing. In other words, there was jack shit I could do to mitigate the prejuidices and biases apparent in people from the second I got there unbeknownst to me at the time. I graduated but that experience always stuck with me.

Past studies have been done on the subject. Many of them are old but the correlation was remarkable at time. In one study I read, comparing similarly poor white and black neighborhoods, violent crime was 22 per 1000 residents for Black neighborhoods, and 20 per 1000 residents for white neighborhoods.

There is compelling statistical correlation between poverty and crime, although the correlation isn't 1:1 because poverty is not the -sole- contributing factor to crime. As you can see in the OP (and as you undoubtedly know from your own life experiences), there's so many independent factors trying to trip up Black America that even if you fix ONE of the problems there are still like eighty more.

In closing, there is nothing we can do about this. I can't change generations of conditioning. Doing everything we're told to do doesn't work. These people still hate us for reasons we have nothing to do with. Black lives don't matter and our children don't have the same innocence everyone else does. Even the Presidents daughters aren't allowed to be children. Maybe we're free in death from the shackles of modern day whatever this is. At the moment we do what we can to survive, eek out a living, and leave behind a path for someone else to achieve success.

There is, man. Change is slow, and despite how bad it is now, things were still once worse yet. In the lifetime of a single man, it may indeed be hopeless... but in generations, eventually, things will change. They always do. The only question becomes: how long will the country have to wait? How long will minorities have to suffer under this injustice?

And for someone living under that injustice, even if we could answer that as "next week", the answer would always be "too long."

 

[Slayven]

A wealth gap does not show if there is a hidden war against a certain race or group of people nor does higher incarceration rates.

What we see is that the more in poverty groups, such as Latino and Blacks, have a higher likelihood of imprisonment and a reason for that would be because when people are so down on their luck they will do bad things to get by. What needs to happen is as stated by other posters, free education, training and healthcare. These things will put many people on a level playing field which will mean your outcome in life will have a lot to do with your own personal responsibility.

Fucking sad man when people choose to willfully ignorant.

 

[Amir0x]

Fucking sad man when people choose to willfully ignorant.

That ignorance is what allows the complacency about how serious these issues are to exist though, unfortunately

 

[theignoramus]

I think are reasonable people here in America that will see these things and help change. I'm hopeful.

Compared to 20 years ago, black lives taken by the police make headlines.

I still remember the 39th precinct scandal in Philly and that took years and terrible abuses to make headlines. You may or may not see improvement. We have a ton of progress to make. But I'm hopeful.

When I was in college, I was driving thru Atlanta, dropping a friend off, on our way to NCA&T. We went to the gas station. I do remember it was in the hood. 2 cars, probably 9-10 black guys. All in college. After 5 hours of driving, we get out of the car to stretch and gas up the car.

One of my friends opens the trunk to retrieve a CD or something and looks at all the luggage and says, 'look at all this shit'. We don't stay long and head back to the highway. Takes 3 minutes to get there and right before driving onto it, we are surrounded by 5 cop cars.

A 'tip' was called in that we were moving 'drugs'. 'Someone' saw us at the gas station, they thought is saying, 'look at all this shit' meant drugs. They asked to search our cars. We 'debated' whether to do it or not. The cops didn't get upset or aggressive. We told them we didn't have drugs and was just in college. Then I reasoned that refusing was going to make the trip worse.

We opened our bags and they let us go. U don't think they even searched the bags. Probably believed us. I think, most of the cops were black. We left after 15 minutes. Not A bad outcome, considering. But there's a few costs that are tough to be counted.

I would consider myself a patriot but not if the buffoonish manner seen on fox news. I'm glad for 'freedom'. I also think it's my right to not have any contact with the police if I do the right thing. Of course, I believe I was completely in the right and the cops were in the wrong. I made my 'mistake' the day I was born. Can't have too many black people in the same place or that heightens the threat. Can't have too many 'poors' in the same place or that heightens the threat. Too much drugs and they'll listen to crack head Ezell or witness #40.

Overall, I just keep it moving. But I do have the right to not be harassed. I do have the right to avoid the police if I'm innocent.

Few things are more infuriating than being regarded as a criminal or someone up to no good when youve done fuck all to arouse suspicion. "Being black" and walking down a street is enough for some people. It's an attack on your character.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Few things are more infuriating than being regarded as a criminal or someone up to no good when youve done fuck all to arouse suspicion. "Being black" and walking down a street is enough for some people. It's an attack on your character.

THIS..all day.

 

[Ikael]

I am quite busy at the moment, but I really appreciate all the effort that went into the OP. Even if I don't agree with 100% of the analysis, there're some serious racial problems that ought to be addressed, in the US and abroad. So massive kudos to Amixor for bringing this up!

But how do we fix this? There's a host of potential ways to do so, which includes ending mandatory minimum sentencing laws and ending the Drug War, but that's just a drop in the bucket. What would you guys think needs to change to start fixing this awful problem?

My personal Top 3 things that I do think that would help a lot in order to fix this issue:

- Police / jail reform. I mean, isn't it kind of obvious? It's the elephant in the room, yet noone seems willing to address it. This seems to me like the most obvious starting point. Forget about neverending cultural war meanderings, this the meat and potatoes of the issue

- Urbanism reform. No, I am not jocking. Current "zonification" schemes encourages racial self-segregation, it's a very well studied phenomenom. And let's get real, It's harder to make friends with people from a different race of yours when you almost never see them in your everyday, face-to-face life, media presence nonwithstanding

- Adressing the utter lack of social safety network. Yes, this would include people from all races. But I do honesly believe that a huge deal of the racial problem can be traced down to inequality, and that it can be better effectively tackled on if we re-evaluate race relationships under an economical, rather than cultural prism.

As for education and "black culture", it is undeniable that were glorious urban African civilizations, which contributed a huge deal to the development of mankind. The solution is not to glorify and perpetuate the myth of the "noble savage" ("Mud huts are as equally valid as incredible feats of engineering and architecture!" No, not really), but to give a better spotlight to said African civilizations. The Ashanti, Igbo's grassroot republics, the Kingdom of Kongo or the Malinese empire were freaking glorious by their own right without needing to fall into cultural relativism.

 

[diggmcbadass]

Those lifetime prison statistics are terrible for all the races. Fixing the horribly broken legal/prison system would probably fix 50% of the race issue right there.

 

[theignoramus]

A wealth gap does not show if there is a hidden war against a certain race or group of people nor does higher incarceration rates.

What we see is that the more in poverty groups, such as Latino and Blacks, have a higher likelihood of imprisonment and a reason for that would be because when people are so down on their luck they will do bad things to get by. What needs to happen is as stated by other posters, free education, training and healthcare. These things will put many people on a level playing field which will mean your outcome in life will have a lot to do with your own personal responsibility.

Come on man. Amir0x put together an OP with an overwhelming amount of damning statistics and academic research . You dont just come in here and dismiss all that with a youtube video from some unknown video blogger. Show some respect.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Fucking sad man when people choose to willfully ignorant.

That notion of "personal responsibility" is one of the poisons baked into the American cake.

Many people in this country — probably a majority — would deny they are racist (and by their definition, they are probably correct: Under normal circumstances, when not threatened, they don't harbor active resentment against people of color). But they don't and will never realize that their personal politics, their economic views, their wacky libertarian streak, even their take on guns, are implicitly and historically racist. Their views on labor rights, on private property, on welfare, on a hundred other things stem from rampant fear and distrust of the dark-skinned other. But they don't and won't and can't recognize that.

The idea that a person should take charge of their own life and not rely on the ministrations of government has a long, tortured, racist history — one of deeply prejudiced notions of desert and deservingness. But advocates of "personal responsibility" will never accept that. They think it's established wisdom — common sense! — and not one more bubble in the toxic brew of American identity.

Most Republicans today will not accept or acknowledge that the current manifestation of their political party is built on opposition to dismantling segregation in this country, on deep fears of black power, black revolution, black people. But it is, folks. Thanks to Nixon's Southern strategy, we have a concerted, organized, and significant minority in this country whose ideological foundation is resentment of people of color, whether they recognize it or not.

And that worldview continues to taint any hope of reparations for what we have done to black folks in this country. "Small government" means "government for us, in the ways we need it, and not for them." It means "I don't want to pay for those people." That's a racist inheritance.

If you believe in "Second Amendment rights," chances are that the arguments you're drawing on were first dreamed up out of fear of black uprisings — or out of fear that the government would one day take your slaves away. Sorry, but that's your inheritance. Whatever reasons you tell yourself for believing in gun rights today, that's where it came from.

If you believe in "law and order" policing and the "war on drugs," that's a racist inheritance too.

If you support punitive sentencing, mandatory minimums, stop and frisk, or the death penalty, that's a racist inheritance.

If you think we're spending too much on education, on housing, on drug treatment, on rehabilitation programs, or on the provision of healthcare, that's a racist inheritance. "Out of control spending" is code. So, in their tangled way, are the "debt" and "deficits" you pick and choose to care about.

If you think the "black community" needs to look long and hard itself, and that "black leaders" need to take responsibility for black folks, that's a racist (and paternalistic) inheritance.

If you think "black on black" crime is the real issue, that's a racist inheritance.

If you ask why they "don't just go to college" or "don't just get a job" or you have ever unironically talked about how hard your immigrant ancestors toiled, that's a racist inheritance.

If you think "people first have to help themselves" or have ever unironically used the word "bootstraps," that's a racist inheritance.

You may not think these things are racist. You may have reasons for believing them in 2014 that have nothing to do with the hateful reasons they were first held and cherished. But deep down, they're still motivated by racism. The past they come from may not be one you want to carry around with you, but carry it you do.

It's impossible for a majority in this country to ever understand and acknowledge these things, because it would be a killing blow to their personal politics and to their implicit ideas of America's greatness, of "freedom," of "opportunity."

Defeating racism is more than the difficult task of changing someone's attitude to others — or even convincing them that they have unconscious attitudes. It's the impossible task of showing that what many believe in their bones — that their own freedom, as they measure it — is predicated on centuries of exploitation and suffering. Exploitation and suffering which continue to this day.

Good luck with that.

 

[Mumei]

Oh, nice. Excellent OP. I think the only thing that could have improved it would be a broader historical overview indicating that these facts are attributable not just to unconscious biases, individual bad actors, a culture of poverty, or whatever else, but the legacies of intentional white supremacist policies.

 

[Amir0x]

Oh, nice. Excellent OP. I think the only thing that could have improved it would be a broader historical overview indicating that these facts are attributable not just to unconscious biases, individual bad actors, a culture of poverty, or whatever else, but the legacies of intentional white supremacist policies.

Honestly it was a matter of time constraints. But I know how good you are at these sorts of things, so I'd definitely love to see your take on the broader historical context. I'd put it right in the OP

 

[ryutaro's mama]

That notion of "personal responsibility" is one of the poisons baked into the American cake.

Many people in this country — probably a majority — would deny they are racist (and by their definition, they are probably correct: Under normal circumstances, when not threatened, they don't harbor active resentment against people of color). But they don't and will never realize that their personal politics, their economic views, their wacky libertarian streak, even their take on guns, are implicitly and historically racist. Their views on labor rights, on private property, on welfare, on a hundred other things stem from rampant fear and distrust of the dark-skinned other. But they don't and won't and can't recognize that.

The idea that a person should take charge of their own life and not rely on the ministrations of government has a long, tortured, racist history — one of deeply prejudiced notions of desert and deservingness. But advocates of "personal responsibility" will never accept that. They think it's established wisdom — common sense! — and not one more bubble in the toxic brew of American identity.

Most Republicans today will not accept or acknowledge that the current manifestation of their political party is built on opposition to dismantling segregation in this country, on deep fears of black power, black revolution, black people. But it is, folks. Thanks to Nixon's Southern strategy, we have a concerted, organized, and significant minority in this country whose ideological foundation is resentment of people of color, whether they recognize it or not.

And that worldview continues to taint any hope of reparations for what we have done to black folks in this country. "Small government" means "government for us, in the ways we need it, and not for them." It means "I don't want to pay for those people." That's a racist inheritance.

If you believe in "Second Amendment rights," chances are that the arguments you're drawing on were first dreamed up out of fear of black uprisings — or out of fear that the government would one day take your slaves away. Sorry, but that's your inheritance. Whatever reasons you tell yourself for believing in gun rights today, that's where it came from.

If you believe in "law and order" policing and the "war on drugs," that's a racist inheritance too.

If you support punitive sentencing, mandatory minimums, stop and frisk, or the death penalty, that's a racist inheritance.

If you think we're spending too much on education, on housing, on drug treatment, on rehabilitation programs, or on the provision of healthcare, that's a racist inheritance. "Out of control spending" is code. So, in their tangled way, are the "debt" and "deficits" you pick and choose to care about.

If you think the "black community" needs to look long and hard itself, and that "black leaders" need to take responsibility for black folks, that's a racist (and paternalistic) inheritance.

If you think "black on black" crime is the real issue, that's a racist inheritance.

If you ask why they "don't just go to college" or "don't just get a job" or you have ever unironically talked about how hard your immigrant ancestors toiled, that's a racist inheritance.

If you think "people first have to help themselves" or have ever unironically used the word "bootstraps," that's a racist inheritance.

You may not think these things are racist. You may have reasons for believing them in 2014 that have nothing to do with the hateful reasons they were first held and cherished. But deep down, they're still motivated by racism. The past they come from may not be one you want to carry around with you, but carry it you do.

It's impossible for a majority in this country to ever understand and acknowledge these things, because it would be a killing blow to their personal politics and to their implicit ideas of America's greatness, of "freedom," of "opportunity."

Defeating racism is more than the difficult task of changing someone's attitude to others — or even convincing them that they have unconscious attitudes. It's the impossible task of showing that what many believe in their bones — that their own freedom, as they measure it — is predicated on centuries of exploitation and suffering. Exploitation and suffering which continue to this day.

Good luck with that.

My man.

 

[snacknuts]

If I wanted to work or volunteer for an organization that's trying to change these problems, where would my efforts do the most good?

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I don't have much to add, but I wanted to say that this thread is amazing and as a Mexican that plans to move to the USA in several years it's pretty eye opening, thanks Amir0x.

 

[RDreamer]

Great OP. I would also like to add this study

The students were also shown photographs alongside descriptions of various crimes and asked to assess the age and innocence of white, black or Latino boys ages 10 to 17. The students overestimated the age of blacks by an average of 4.5 years and found them more culpable than whites or Latinos, particularly when the boys were matched with serious crimes, the study found. Researchers used questionnaires to assess the participants’ prejudice and dehumanization of blacks. They found that participants who implicitly associated blacks with apes thought the black children were older and less innocent.

This link has some graphs on that:

(college students on the left, police participants on the right)



And then there's also this

Black students are suspended more than three times as often as their white classmates, twice as often as their Latino classmates and more than 10 times as often as their Asian classmates in middle and high schools nationwide, a new study shows.

The average American secondary student has an 11% chance of being suspended in a single school year, according to the study from the University of California-Los Angeles Civil Rights project. However, if that student is black, the odds of suspension jump to 24%.

 

[GameGuru59]

That notion of "personal responsibility" is one of the poisons baked into the American cake.
[snip]

Dude, you didn't have to write all that, I just could have posted this amazing Lee Atwater (legendary Republican strategist in the 80's) interview where he lays every bit of what you said! /jk
Short Version
Full Interview

But yeah, outstanding post.

 

[Amir0x]

Shake Appeal, fantastic post.

Great OP. I would also like to add this study




This link has some graphs on that:

(college students on the left, police participants on the right)



And then there's also this

Fantastic, just the type of stuff I wanted. Added to OP, credited

 

[Mumei]

Honestly it was a matter of time constraints. But I know how good you are at these sorts of things, so I'd definitely love to see your take on the broader historical context. I'd put it right in the OP

*side eye*

... Fine, I'll try tonight.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

That notion of "personal responsibility" is one of the poisons baked into the American cake.

Many people in this country — probably a majority — would deny they are racist (and by their definition, they are probably correct: Under normal circumstances, when not threatened, they don't harbor active resentment against people of color). But they don't and will never realize that their personal politics, their economic views, their wacky libertarian streak, even their take on guns, are implicitly and historically racist. Their views on labor rights, on private property, on welfare, on a hundred other things stem from rampant fear and distrust of the dark-skinned other. But they don't and won't and can't recognize that.

The idea that a person should take charge of their own life and not rely on the ministrations of government has a long, tortured, racist history — one of deeply prejudiced notions of desert and deservingness. But advocates of "personal responsibility" will never accept that. They think it's established wisdom — common sense! — and not one more bubble in the toxic brew of American identity.

Most Republicans today will not accept or acknowledge that the current manifestation of their political party is built on opposition to dismantling segregation in this country, on deep fears of black power, black revolution, black people. But it is, folks. Thanks to Nixon's Southern strategy, we have a concerted, organized, and significant minority in this country whose ideological foundation is resentment of people of color, whether they recognize it or not.

And that worldview continues to taint any hope of reparations for what we have done to black folks in this country. "Small government" means "government for us, in the ways we need it, and not for them." It means "I don't want to pay for those people." That's a racist inheritance.

If you believe in "Second Amendment rights," chances are that the arguments you're drawing on were first dreamed up out of fear of black uprisings — or out of fear that the government would one day take your slaves away. Sorry, but that's your inheritance. Whatever reasons you tell yourself for believing in gun rights today, that's where it came from.

If you believe in "law and order" policing and the "war on drugs," that's a racist inheritance too.

If you support punitive sentencing, mandatory minimums, stop and frisk, or the death penalty, that's a racist inheritance.

If you think we're spending too much on education, on housing, on drug treatment, on rehabilitation programs, or on the provision of healthcare, that's a racist inheritance. "Out of control spending" is code. So, in their tangled way, are the "debt" and "deficits" you pick and choose to care about.

If you think the "black community" needs to look long and hard itself, and that "black leaders" need to take responsibility for black folks, that's a racist (and paternalistic) inheritance.

If you think "black on black" crime is the real issue, that's a racist inheritance.

If you ask why they "don't just go to college" or "don't just get a job" or you have ever unironically talked about how hard your immigrant ancestors toiled, that's a racist inheritance.

If you think "people first have to help themselves" or have ever unironically used the word "bootstraps," that's a racist inheritance.

You may not think these things are racist. You may have reasons for believing them in 2014 that have nothing to do with the hateful reasons they were first held and cherished. But deep down, they're still motivated by racism. The past they come from may not be one you want to carry around with you, but carry it you do.

It's impossible for a majority in this country to ever understand and acknowledge these things, because it would be a killing blow to their personal politics and to their implicit ideas of America's greatness, of "freedom," of "opportunity."

Defeating racism is more than the difficult task of changing someone's attitude to others — or even convincing them that they have unconscious attitudes. It's the impossible task of showing that what many believe in their bones — that their own freedom, as they measure it — is predicated on centuries of exploitation and suffering. Exploitation and suffering which continue to this day.

Good luck with that.

Damn good post

 

[Necrovex]

That notion of "personal responsibility" is one of the poisons baked into the American cake.

Many people in this country — probably a majority — would deny they are racist (and by their definition, they are probably correct: Under normal circumstances, when not threatened, they don't harbor active resentment against people of color). But they don't and will never realize that their personal politics, their economic views, their wacky libertarian streak, even their take on guns, are implicitly and historically racist. Their views on labor rights, on private property, on welfare, on a hundred other things stem from rampant fear and distrust of the dark-skinned other. But they don't and won't and can't recognize that.

The idea that a person should take charge of their own life and not rely on the ministrations of government has a long, tortured, racist history — one of deeply prejudiced notions of desert and deservingness. But advocates of "personal responsibility" will never accept that. They think it's established wisdom — common sense! — and not one more bubble in the toxic brew of American identity.

Most Republicans today will not accept or acknowledge that the current manifestation of their political party is built on opposition to dismantling segregation in this country, on deep fears of black power, black revolution, black people. But it is, folks. Thanks to Nixon's Southern strategy, we have a concerted, organized, and significant minority in this country whose ideological foundation is resentment of people of color, whether they recognize it or not.

And that worldview continues to taint any hope of reparations for what we have done to black folks in this country. "Small government" means "government for us, in the ways we need it, and not for them." It means "I don't want to pay for those people." That's a racist inheritance.

If you believe in "Second Amendment rights," chances are that the arguments you're drawing on were first dreamed up out of fear of black uprisings — or out of fear that the government would one day take your slaves away. Sorry, but that's your inheritance. Whatever reasons you tell yourself for believing in gun rights today, that's where it came from.

If you believe in "law and order" policing and the "war on drugs," that's a racist inheritance too.

If you support punitive sentencing, mandatory minimums, stop and frisk, or the death penalty, that's a racist inheritance.

If you think we're spending too much on education, on housing, on drug treatment, on rehabilitation programs, or on the provision of healthcare, that's a racist inheritance. "Out of control spending" is code. So, in their tangled way, are the "debt" and "deficits" you pick and choose to care about.

If you think the "black community" needs to look long and hard itself, and that "black leaders" need to take responsibility for black folks, that's a racist (and paternalistic) inheritance.

If you think "black on black" crime is the real issue, that's a racist inheritance.

If you ask why they "don't just go to college" or "don't just get a job" or you have ever unironically talked about how hard your immigrant ancestors toiled, that's a racist inheritance.

If you think "people first have to help themselves" or have ever unironically used the word "bootstraps," that's a racist inheritance.

You may not think these things are racist. You may have reasons for believing them in 2014 that have nothing to do with the hateful reasons they were first held and cherished. But deep down, they're still motivated by racism. The past they come from may not be one you want to carry around with you, but carry it you do.

It's impossible for a majority in this country to ever understand and acknowledge these things, because it would be a killing blow to their personal politics and to their implicit ideas of America's greatness, of "freedom," of "opportunity."

Defeating racism is more than the difficult task of changing someone's attitude to others — or even convincing them that they have unconscious attitudes. It's the impossible task of showing that what many believe in their bones — that their own freedom, as they measure it — is predicated on centuries of exploitation and suffering. Exploitation and suffering which continue to this day.

Good luck with that.

As many had said already, this is a fantastic post.

*side eye*

... Fine, I'll try tonight.

Don't try to act you aren't giddy by this prospect!

 

[RedSwirl]

- Urbanism reform. No, I am not jocking. Current "zonification" schemes encourages racial self-segregation, it's a very well studied phenomenom. And let's get real, It's harder to make friends with people from a different race of yours when you almost never see them in your everyday, face-to-face life, media presence nonwithstanding

I've started to think this by itself would make one of the biggest impacts, or at least some kind of change to housing in this country. People theorize LGBT rights are moving ahead faster than racial equality because any white person in power might have a gay friend or family member, but how many of them know more than maybe one black or latino person?

I sometimes wonder if I myself am an example of the change this can bring. My parents grew up in the Jim Crow south but had made it into middle class suburbs by the time I was born (mostly due to my dad joining the army as an officer). As a result nearly all of my lifelong friends are white. Hasn't helped me get a job though (since all those white friends are also jobless right now).

 

[Kimosabae]

Subbing

 

[TTUVAPOR]

I'm racist for thinking apparently.

The second amendentment is based on racism? Are we serious?

My want to own guns means I'm racist?

Everyone should read Malcolm X's Autobiography. It's very educational and gives real accounts on what his life was like growing up and where his hatred stimmed from.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0345350685/?tag=neogaf0e-20

My favorite part about his racism is that he realized he himself was no different than those who were mistreating or being racist toward him. What's sad is that he only realized this shortly before he was killed.

 

[.GqueB.]

If I wanted to work or volunteer for an organization that's trying to change these problems, where would my efforts do the most good?

No point. The answer is more interracial sex and procreation. Our only hope is to become so mixed up that no one even knows who to racist at.

 

[TTUVAPOR]

How long has racism been an issue in society?

I mean historically speaking before the modern Western world. Is it something prevalent in basic human societal group behavior (ie. the majority doesn't treat the minority as equals)? I genuinely don't know the history of racism past the last 200 years.

Racism exists all the way back before Jesus Christ was born. Beyond racism there's religious wars that will never end. The religion war is the worst in my opinion.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I'm racist for thinking apparently.

The second amendentment is based on racism? Are we serious?

My want to own guns means I'm racist?

I think the post was stating that the fundamental rights and privileges American society is built on stem from racism. It doesn't make you racist that you believe in them but if you can't recognize how all these things stem from places of racism and controlling blacks then you're never going to recognize institutionalized racism or just how deeply ingrained black oppression actually is in society.

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Racism exists all the way back before Jesus Christ was born. Beyond racism there's religious wars that will never end. The religion war is the worst in my opinion.

we should have never left africa

 

[Mumei]

How long has racism been an issue in society?

I mean historically speaking before the modern Western world. Is it something prevalent in basic human societal group behavior (ie. the majority doesn't treat the minority as equals)? I genuinely don't know the history of racism past the last 200 years.

This isn't a subject I've read extensively about, but you could read this as a basic primer on what you might want to read in order to learn more.

 

[TTUVAPOR]

I think the post was stating that the fundamental rights and privileges American society is built on stem from racism. It doesn't make you racist that you believe in them but if you can't recognize how all these things stem from places of racism and controlling blacks then you're never going to recognize institutionalized racism or just how deeply ingrained black oppression actually is in society.

Second amendment was written because of fear of government tyranny. When the Brits went to war with the colonies, they invaded the homes of the colonists, thus their only protection was their own weapons. Every citizen has a right to own their own gun to protect their own property and their families and their own lives.

Calling 911 and waiting for cops to come save you isn't going to save you. I trust my own protection to protect my family. Racism doesn't have a damn thing to do with it either.

I would never want to live in a country where I don't have the right to protect my freedom. Do you expect me to depend on cops and government for protection?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Second amendment was written because of fear of government tyranny. When the Brits went to war with the colonies, they invaded the homes of the colonists, thus their only protection was their own weapons. Every citizen has a right to own their own gun to protect their own property and their families and their own lives.

Calling 911 and waiting for cops to come save you isn't going to save you. I trust my own protection to protect my family. Racism doesn't have a damn thing to do with it either.

I would never want to live in a country where I don't have the right to protect my freedom. Do you expect me to depend on cops and government for protection?

This has nothing to do with what I said nor what the thread is about. If this is just about you wanting to own guns no one is stopping you. If you feel his statement about the introduction of gun laws is wrong, just say so. Still doesn't change that many of the fundamental policies that exist in America are built of of racism at their core.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Should've known it would only be a matter of time before ignorance found the thread

Again

 

[soundahfekz]

Those lifetime prison statistics are terrible for all the races. Fixing the horribly broken legal/prison system would probably fix 50% of the race issue right there.

False equivalence. The legal/prison system is specifically terrible for blacks and hispanics (overwhelmingly blacks). This is similar to "#ALLlivesmatter"

 

[TTUVAPOR]

This has nothing to do with what I said nor what the thread is about. If this is just about you wanting to own guns no one is stopping you. If you feel his statement about the introduction of gun laws is wrong, just say so. Still doesn't change that many of the fundamental policies that exist in America are built of of racism at their core.

We killed native american indians when Christopher Columbus discovered North America.

That's history. I'm just glad I didn't live during that time.

There are really, really bad places on this planet. I won't deny that racism exists today, however, I for one am going to live my life and worry about me and my family.

I laugh at some of these people who go out and protest...as if laying down in a mall is suddenly going to make people go, "oh damn...what were we thinking all this time??"

I took a class in college called social movements, a majority of the social movements that have happened since the dawn of time have been good, e.g., civil rights movement, women's sufferage, etc. The social protest though needs to actually be smart and have meaning behind it.

Disrupting everyday people who have NOTHING TO DO with what's going on is not going to fix a damn thing.

Half the time it's a bunch of media attention wanting people.

You read any history book about World War II and the NAZIS and it will floor you how propaganda fuels people's minds. They don't know any better.

Sad thing is, we have kids growing up in homes of racists where the children literally cannot think for themselves, therefore their idiotic insane parents teach them crap and they end up growing up thinking that way. It's really sad.

 

[mantidor]

How long has racism been an issue in society?

I mean historically speaking before the modern Western world. Is it something prevalent in basic human societal group behavior (ie. the majority doesn't treat the minority as equals)? I genuinely don't know the history of racism past the last 200 years.

Racism exists since the dawn of humanity. We are naturally predisposed not only to form bounds with our local group but to fear and resent outsiders. If tomorrow blue humans appeared out of nowhere they would be met with apprehension, at best.

I don't think there is any society free of racism unfortunately, it's hardwired and it takes high levels of education to overcome it, we are tribal by nature.

When we get to a point we see anyone as being from our same "group" we would have overcome it, but its a very difficult to get there. When institutions actively act to keep groups apart it simply makes it impossible. My understanding is that the US has that segregstional culture that has been impossible to overcome, it's always "us vs them".

 

[TTUVAPOR]

Should've known it would only be a matter of time before ignorance found the thread

Again

Typical one-liner response...I'm ignorant huh? Guess I'll go on about my ignorant life.

 

[TTUVAPOR]

Racism exists since the dawn of humanity. We are naturally predisposed not only to form bounds with our local group but to fear and resent outsiders. If tomorrow blue humans appeared out of nowhere they would be met with apprehension, at best.

I don't think there is any society free of racism unfortunately, it's hardwired and it takes high levels of education to overcome it, we are tribal by nature.

When we get to a point we see anyone as being from our same "group" we would have overcome it, but its a very difficult to get there. When institutions actively act to keep groups apart it simply makes it impossible. My understanding is that the US has that segregstional culture that has been impossible to overcome, it's always "us vs them".

Just wait till Aliens come...instead of meeting them with open arms, we'll have our military ready to act.

Hell, we could have a Christopher Columbus alien come to our planet and basically say, sorry folks, we're taking over.


By the way, another great book to read: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0060838655/?tag=neogaf0e-20

A People's History of the United States.

Great freaking book. The chapter on Christopher Columbus literally shocked me.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Typical one-liner response...I'm ignorant huh? Guess I'll go on about my ignorant life.

I'm not wasting any significant time on willfully ignorant people.

 

[lednerg]

Second amendment was written because of fear of government tyranny. When the Brits went to war with the colonies, they invaded the homes of the colonists, thus their only protection was their own weapons. Every citizen has a right to own their own gun to protect their own property and their families and their own lives.

The Whiskey Rebellion proves otherwise.

 

[Amir0x]

*side eye*

... Fine, I'll try tonight.

Reading your posts always helps ME to understand more about the subjects, so I know you'd be a great resources for everyone else haha

Edit: oh god it's TTUVAPOR. *starts writing something up*

 

[TTUVAPOR]

I'm not wasting any significant time on willfully ignorant people.

Good, we'll both save ourselves the wasted key-strokes

 

[Gotdatmoney]

We killed native american indians when Christopher Columbus discovered North America.

That's history. I'm just glad I didn't live during that time.

There are really, really bad places on this planet. I won't deny that racism exists today, however, I for one am going to live my life and worry about me and my family.

I laugh at some of these people who go out and protest...as if laying down in a mall is suddenly going to make people go, "oh damn...what were we thinking all this time??"

I took a class in college called social movements, a majority of the social movements that have happened since the dawn of time have been good, e.g., civil rights movement, women's sufferage, etc. The social protest though needs to actually be smart and have meaning behind it.

Disrupting everyday people who have NOTHING TO DO with what's going on is not going to fix a damn thing.

Half the time it's a bunch of media attention wanting people.

You read any history book about World War II and the NAZIS and it will floor you how propaganda fuels people's minds. They don't know any better.

Sad thing is, we have kids growing up in homes of racists where the children literally cannot think for themselves, therefore their idiotic insane parents teach them crap and they end up growing up thinking that way. It's really sad.

What you're essentially advocating for is do nothing because the status quo is never going to change. It's admirable that people want to protest for change, the history of the world show protest and uprising do work, saying they don't is 100% false. If you wanna be that person that just says fuck it, I'ma do me, go ahead but it's a racist mentality and you need to accept that you hold it. If you know there is an issue of injustice and don't want to give any fucks about changing it, then you are a part of the problem. So if your cool admitting that then so be it but don't teeter on this idea that anything that inconveniences people in the name of social justice is wrong yet claim you don't engage in racist tendencies

.

 

[GameGuru59]

Second amendment was written because of fear of government tyranny. When the Brits went to war with the colonies, they invaded the homes of the colonists, thus their only protection was their own weapons. Every citizen has a right to own their own gun to protect their own property and their families and their own lives.

Source? The second amendment (as like, the actual text of the amendment illustrates) was written so that the state militias could have armed citizens ready to defend he country at a moment's notice. Now, had the second amendment been absent from the constitution, there would be no ban on bearing arms (because the founders recognized that the citizens needed guns for the reasons you described above). But the idea that citizens have a "right" to bear arms outside of the militia context is a very recent contention.

 

[soundahfekz]

Typical one-liner response...I'm ignorant huh? Guess I'll go on about my ignorant life.

Yep, you're ignorant. Willfully too. Who the fuck wants to engage with that?

What you're essentially advocating for is do nothing because the status quo is never going to change. It's admirable that people want to protest for change, the history of the world show protest and uprising do work, saying they don't is 100% false. If you wanna be that person that just says fuck it, I'ma do me, go ahead but it's a racist mentality and you need to accept that you hold it. If you know there is an issue of injustice and don't want to give any fucks about changing it, then you are a part of the problem. So if your cool admitting that then so be it but don't teeter on this idea that anything that inconveniences people in the name of social justice is wrong yet claim you don't engage in racist tendencies

.

Doing nothing requires no modification of thought or action. Because of that, this thread will bring out those who are comfortable with their white privilege and are irritated at the very notion that someone might provoke alternative thought. They hate that it even crosses their screen.

 

[TTUVAPOR]

What you're essentially advocating for is do nothing because the status quo is never going to change. It's admirable that people want to protest for change, the history of the world show protest and uprising do work, saying they don't is 100% false. If you wanna be that person that just says fuck it, I'ma do me, go ahead but it's a racist mentality and you need to accept that you hold it. If you know there is an issue of injustice and don't want to give any fucks about changing it, then you are a part of the problem. So if your cool admitting that then so be it but don't teeter on this idea that anything that inconveniences people in the name of social justice is wrong yet claim you don't engage in racist tendencies

.

Protesting is a good thing, it should always be there, that's why we have freedom of speech. I'm arguing about the method of the protest.

Going to a mall and laying down in the mall only disrupts the everyday citizens from going on about their lives. What are they going to do?

You want change, you want to protest, go march up to your local city hall, go straight to the people who are responsible for making the changes.

Also, thanks for calling a racist. You're so quick to stereotype me because I don't believe what you believe and that my opinion differs from yours.

That's amazing.

You're like my old friend I'm no longer friends with that got pissed at me when I wouldn't meet his Baptist pastor. He knew I was Catholic, he knew I went to church on my own time...yet in his mind he thought it was his mission to convert me...why? He used to tell me, I'm not Christian. I'm not going to Heaven. Who in the hell made him God?

Keep on judging though.

 

[Amir0x]

Instead of attacking TTUVAPOR, let's write up our arguments deconstructing the flimsy foundation in which his positions stand.

I'm making one such post now.

 

[tbm24]

Protesting is a good thing, it should always be there, that's why we have freedom of speech. I'm arguing about the method of the protest.

Going to a mall and laying down in the mall only disrupts the everyday citizens from going on about their lives. What are they going to do?

You want change, you want to protest, go march up to your local city hall, go straight to the people who are responsible for making the changes.

Also, thanks for calling a racist. You're so quick to stereotype me because I don't believe what you believe and that my opinion differs from yours.

That's amazing.

You're like my old friend I'm no longer friends with that got pissed at me when I wouldn't meet his Baptist pastor. He knew I was Catholic, he knew I went to church on my own time...yet in his mind he thought it was his mission to convert me...why? He used to tell me, I'm not Christian. I'm not going to Heaven. Who in the hell made him God?

Keep on judging though.

Just so I understand you correctly. Are you trying to say the problem is only in the institutions in place and that those same institutions have had no effect on the people? Otherwise I don't see how you can type the bolded and believe it.

 

[TTUVAPOR]

Yep, you're ignorant. Willfully too. Who the fuck wants to engage with that?



Doing nothing requires no modification of thought or action. Because of that, this thread will bring out those who are comfortable with their white privilege and are irritated at the very notion that someone might provoke alternative thought. They hate that it even crosses their screen.

Wow....

Me disagreeing with a protest that involved people laying down in a mall means that I'm comfortable with my white privilage (define that for me by the way) and I'm irritated that someone might provoke an alternative method of protesting?

Youy have a mob-mentality. Like a sheep. It's like being in a room with 20 people and then one person says, I disagree. Then all 19 of those 20 harp on that one person because they didn't follow in line.

That's cool though, I've been called rude and insensitive because I hate Valentines day and Mother's Day and Father's day and basically any other media-created day in order to generate retail sales. I don't need a day to tell my parents I love them and I certainly don't need a day to single out when I can give my wife flowers.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Instead of attacking TTUVAPOR, let's write up our arguments deconstructing the flimsy foundation in which his positions stand.

I'm making one such post now.

Godspeed