Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
More than Intel and AMD have x86 license. It's pointless for anyone else to enter this business though.
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Intel and AMD join forces - The x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group
ZehDon
Gold Member
This reminds me of IBM's OS/2 push in the face of the home computer market, trying to lock up the corporate sector to guarantee adoption through their deals. They just didn't realise the market had evolved.
Intel is struggling and AMD looks like its betting the farm on CPU since nVidia refuses to give them an inch. Everyone who's got the money to contemplate ARM is contemplating it.
Intel is struggling and AMD looks like its betting the farm on CPU since nVidia refuses to give them an inch. Everyone who's got the money to contemplate ARM is contemplating it.
Soodanim
Member
The difference is that going Intel to AMD in a server doesn't change too much (as far as I'm aware). For businesses around the world that have and continue to run essential software, switching a whole company over to a different architecture, and that's assuming ARM versions of exisitng X86/64 software exists, is not an easy if at all possible task. And that's one thing X86 has on its side: people are basically stuck with it for now.
simpatico
Member
Can someone link me an article or video where someone smarter than me talks about how x86 isn't in its dying days and can compete with ARM for decades to come? I don't even know where I got this impression. Just something I'm curious about since we've had some.... troubles iterating.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Ah yes the dying architecture advisory group
ARM UBER ALLES
ARM UBER ALLES
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
I assume this just means easier. Hopefully it doesn’t mean only x86 will ensure ps4/5 compatibility.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
They were recently struggling to get games running on ARM.
[Verge] Windows on Arm isn’t ready for gaming
Qualcomm and Microsoft still have a lot of work ahead for Arm-based gaming laptops. When Microsoft talked up the potential for gaming on Arm earlier this year, I was hopeful that its new Qualcomm-powered Copilot Plus PCs could be a turning point. There were promises from Qualcomm that games...
ap_puff
Member
They are above 10% in server marketshare, but probably not over 15%. They have practically 0 marketshare in desktop PC but have basically 100% of mobile and tablet. So they are probably over 70% of total electronic devices that use more than rudimentary computing.
I'm glad to see some movement. Competition at any level will only benefit us consumers, and now it's ARM vs. x86. Hopefully, they will be able to reduce power consumption significantly. This is ARM's biggest advantage.
It probably does. It will be much easier to simulate a lower-specced version of itself than a different architecture.
Jinzo Prime
Gold Member
Valve is reportedly working on cross ISA compatibility via Proton, so it's not impossible for Sony and Microsoft to do the same.They were recently struggling to get games running on ARM.
[Verge] Windows on Arm isn’t ready for gaming
Qualcomm and Microsoft still have a lot of work ahead for Arm-based gaming laptops. When Microsoft talked up the potential for gaming on Arm earlier this year, I was hopeful that its new Qualcomm-powered Copilot Plus PCs could be a turning point. There were promises from Qualcomm that games...www.neogaf.com
ap_puff
Member
Risc-V is kinda like fusion...10 years away from being 10 years away
Imtjnotu
Member
with everything going on, it will be less than that....7 at most
Dirk Benedict
Member
Valve seems to have been watching closely.
Reminder:
Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games, sparking speculations about future hardware
Reminder:
Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games, sparking speculations about future hardware
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Well their console operating system relies heavily on x86. But I don't think this has anything to do with the reason it's these companies collaborating.
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
While that is nice, as someone with a steam deck that has run into multiple problems running games on the x86 AMD SoC, I do not think this will be worthwhile for a long time.
Zathalus
Member
The latest chips from AMD and Intel are highly competitive on both the power usage and performance front. Intel Lunar Lake trades blows with the latest M4 from Apple. x86 has issues, but most of the problems with power issues have been due to the chip architecture itself.
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The Pleasure
Gold Member
Pegasus Actual
Gold Member
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
The heat from ARM is real but one can argue that Intel needs this little support group way more than AMD.
It is also worth noting that ARM is not a magic bullet either. Funnyli enough despite the open-ended facade ARM architecture development is limited to ArmHoldings. Arm Holdings develops the ISAs and then license them to other vendors whereas x86 is developed by at least two companies in equal measure and without limits. It is also unnerving that Arm Holdings are constantly moved back and forth (Nvidia buyout try, Apple's crawling clutches on the architecture itself), so it's very wise for big chipless companies like Microsoft to keep their eggs in several baskets.
I, for once, welcome the creation of this group. Two rival architectures is a way-way better than situation than x86 dominance for past two decades. It's also potentially better than possible ARM takeover that will lead to us to Intel's x86 heydays.
It is also worth noting that ARM is not a magic bullet either. Funnyli enough despite the open-ended facade ARM architecture development is limited to ArmHoldings. Arm Holdings develops the ISAs and then license them to other vendors whereas x86 is developed by at least two companies in equal measure and without limits. It is also unnerving that Arm Holdings are constantly moved back and forth (Nvidia buyout try, Apple's crawling clutches on the architecture itself), so it's very wise for big chipless companies like Microsoft to keep their eggs in several baskets.
I, for once, welcome the creation of this group. Two rival architectures is a way-way better than situation than x86 dominance for past two decades. It's also potentially better than possible ARM takeover that will lead to us to Intel's x86 heydays.
winjer
Gold Member
I think some people here are misunderstanding this x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group.
This does not mean Intel and AMD are now allies. It just means a greater collaboration to define the instruction set for future CPUs.
ARM defines very clearly how each instruction has to be done, for each revision of the ARM standard. And this means that software makers can better optimize for the ISA, without having to specify code for each maker.
AMD and Intel have a more open approach, where each develops it's own instructions and how they operate. A good example of this is AVX, that has several implementations and is a mess for any dev to write and optimize code.
And this is good for anyone on the X86 ecosystem. And it makes it more competitive against ARM.
This does not mean Intel and AMD are now allies. It just means a greater collaboration to define the instruction set for future CPUs.
ARM defines very clearly how each instruction has to be done, for each revision of the ARM standard. And this means that software makers can better optimize for the ISA, without having to specify code for each maker.
AMD and Intel have a more open approach, where each develops it's own instructions and how they operate. A good example of this is AVX, that has several implementations and is a mess for any dev to write and optimize code.
And this is good for anyone on the X86 ecosystem. And it makes it more competitive against ARM.
Kadve
Member
Well unlike Cyrix they are still around. Though like Matrox they have long since abandoned the consumer market and i believe they mostly just makes SOC's nowadays.
Hell im not even sure they are even using X86 anymore. Their boards mostly just seems to use Mediatek CPU's in recent years.
Anyway. Intel and AMD partnering up isn't exactly a new thing. They cross license stuff from each other all the time such as the entire X64 thing which was entirely AMD developed.
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BattleScar
Member
Wake me up when Grace and Grace Next are actually useful. Thanks.
Bradamante3D
Member
Had they done that 10-15 years ago, ARM, Apple, Qualcomm and whoever wouldn't wipe the floor with them right now.
DaleinCalgary
Gold Member
X86 is still extremely important but the mainstream consumer laptop user at home is better off going with an ARM design.
I thought the Apple ARM hype has died down? Besides aren't the considerably cheaper to produce given their size?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Trying to get ahead of nvidia cpus which should make their presence known in the not so distant future.
Chiggs
Gold Member
The Pleasure
Gold Member
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Still the big fat Performance cores hit over 4.0 GHz (efficiency cores target less than 3 GHz peak but in the Max and Ultra configurations you get lots of both) and their RT implementation in the GPU is at least as advanced as the latest nVIDIA.
With that said this is a great read: https://chipsandcheese.com/p/arm-or-x86-isa-doesnt-matter
On the other side, what AMD is showing with portable handhelds is that x86 can be very very competitive there if designed for it.
You can still make the ISA matter at very low power consumption and most of all in massively massively multicore scenarios (but then those designs are for customers that can afford the super special expensive cooling needed and non-x86 ISAs HW are also using similar tricks in a way or the other).
In the end, you can make a great x86 design and you can make a horrible ARM or RISC-V ISA (people hate the vector extensions they made to both, SVE on ARM is not being well received at all apparently) and the inverse of that sure.