Support NeoGAF

[zainetor]

Crysis 3 is different. Dunno about frametimes, but the 8350 outperforms the 3570k in average FPS.

3570k gets beaten in far cry 3 too, i guess.

 

[Kevin]

I have the intel 980x and nothing touches it. Even 4K video uses a small amount of power. Same with any game. I won't be upgrading for years to come.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I have the intel 980x and nothing touches it. Even 4K video uses a small amount of power. Same with any game. I won't be upgrading for years to come.

im on an i5 760 and i dont think ive experienced any cpu bottlenecks except for starcraft 2. which is probably why intel is focusing on mobile.

 

[rohlfinator]

Guess I'm going to look for deals on the 3570k or 3770k.

Is there any real benefit to the -E line if you're not making the jump to six or more cores? The 3820 looked like a pretty insignificant improvement over the 2700k, and even less impressive compared to Ivy Bridge, at least at stock clocks.

 

[nbthedude]

Guess I'm going to look for deals on the 3570k or 3770k.

Is there any real benefit to the -E line if you're not making the jump to six or more cores? The 3820 looked like a pretty insignificant improvement over the 2700k, and even less impressive compared to Ivy Bridge, at least at stock clocks.

No, unless you just like to play with hardware. Ivy is a better deal in price/performance for sure.

 

[nitric0]

So I waited to upgrade my cpu, seems like the Haswell chips are a slight disappointment? I'm hoping there are good deals for the 3570k in the near future

 

[teiresias]

That's exactly what caused me to bite earlier than I wanted with my current system.

Continued having issues after upgrade, only to finally discover it was my Razer Deathadder mouse causing the issues. POS. It didn't even have the dignity to die, just mess with my computer (hard locks and stuff).

My issue is where the system drive (an SSD in my case) will just disappear from the system. This will happen during use so that the OS will freeze and the drive won't even he detected in the BIOS. I have to do a power cycle and make a BIOS setting change and save the settings for it to come back. It's happened with both a OCZ and a Crucial SSD used as the system drive, so I suspect the motherboard rather than the drives.

 

[mkenyon]

im on an i5 760 and i dont think ive experienced any cpu bottlenecks except for starcraft 2. which is probably why intel is focusing on mobile.

CPU bottlenecks exist on most games. It's not an either/or thing most of the time.

That being said, the 760 is a very capable processor and keeps up with even modern AMD offerings.

 

[Rentahamster]

Hey, toothpaste does a good job!

I still wonder if IB's temperatures were caused by the TIM or process immaturity, perhaps it's both.

Vegemite??? Fuckin' lol

 

[theSlacker]

Vegemite??? Fuckin' lol

This is one of my favorite of those, just because of the thread title. Also always lose my shit at the stuff like using tin foil.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I gotta say, I love Intel, but their process for naming processors is so damn convoluted and confusing. It's to the point where you need to do all this research just to know which to even start considering.

 

[Theonik]

So they are using the same shitty heatspreader design from Ivy Bridge?
Sticking with my Sandy Bridge if so.

 

[rohlfinator]

I gotta say, I love Intel, but their process for naming processors is so damn convoluted and confusing. It's to the point where you need to do all this research just to know which to even start considering.

Yeah, they have way too many different features enabled/disabled based on the model. I wish it just varied by clock speed and number of cores.

Fortunately there are usually only a handful of choices for enthusiast-grade (but not stupidly expensive) parts in each generation.

 

[slapnuts]

cool, my 3770k @ 4.8ghz using 1.264v came out being the right choice afterall Now i dont feel so bad that i didnt wait. I bought my 3770k in late Dec 2012.

 

[kharma45]

So they are using the same shitty heatspreader design from Ivy Bridge?
Sticking with my Sandy Bridge if so.

They are yes.

 

[Jeb]

As a guy who is building his first PC, I was waiting for this for my build.
Some disappointments for PC enthusiast but I read one review in this thread that its perfect for new comers although I don't know how reliable that is.
Should I go with this? the USB 3.0 glitch is kinda off putting and extra heat sounds bad but I'm a first timer at this, I don't know how much I should be concerned about this, is it still a good purchase for someone who didn't have much expectations on it before?

 

[JaseC]

Vegemite??? Fuckin' lol

Haha, no way. I have to try that one day.

 

[kharma45]

As a guy who is building his first PC, I was waiting for this for my build.
Some disappointments for PC enthusiast but I read one review in this thread that its perfect for new comers although I don't know how reliable that is.
Should I go with this? the USB 3.0 glitch is kinda off putting and extra heat sounds bad but I'm a first timer at this, I don't know how much I should be concerned about this, is it still a good purchase for someone who didn't have much expectations on it before?

It's still good yeah. The only caveat is we don't know all that much about the motherboards as yet. Problems etc. only appear a month or two down the line so recommendations aren't as 100% solid as they would be with a Z77 mobo.

 

[Addnan]

As a guy who is building his first PC, I was waiting for this for my build.
Some disappointments for PC enthusiast but I read one review in this thread that its perfect for new comers although I don't know how reliable that is.
Should I go with this? the USB 3.0 glitch is kinda off putting and extra heat sounds bad but I'm a first timer at this, I don't know how much I should be concerned about this, is it still a good purchase for someone who didn't have much expectations on it before?

The USB 3 issue is overblown, just turn off sleep state and its all good.

If you are on something older than Sandy Bridge its a great purchase.

 

[clav]

As a guy who is building his first PC, I was waiting for this for my build.
Some disappointments for PC enthusiast but I read one review in this thread that its perfect for new comers although I don't know how reliable that is.
Should I go with this? the USB 3.0 glitch is kinda off putting and extra heat sounds bad but I'm a first timer at this, I don't know how much I should be concerned about this, is it still a good purchase for someone who didn't have much expectations on it before?

If you bought Sandybridge or Ivybridge, then don't bother.

For people who skipped those generations, then consider.

 

[Theonik]

Haha, no way. I have to try that one day.

The real problem with a lot of these is they only work while moist which is not a lot. (dry toothpaste is no good)

They are yes.

Yeah sticking with my OC'd 2500k.

 

[JaseC]

The real problem with a lot of these is they only work while moist which is not a lot. (dry toothpaste is no good)

I suppose Vegemite would be a good way to see out my 2600K's two-odd years of service (I intend to upgrade to Broadwell assuming Intel stops being cunts about reasonably-priced hex/octo-cores). I can even add croutons to the equation!

 

[Ryoma-Echizen]

As a guy who is building his first PC, I was waiting for this for my build.
Some disappointments for PC enthusiast but I read one review in this thread that its perfect for new comers although I don't know how reliable that is.
Should I go with this? the USB 3.0 glitch is kinda off putting and extra heat sounds bad but I'm a first timer at this, I don't know how much I should be concerned about this, is it still a good purchase for someone who didn't have much expectations on it before?

It offers nothing new performance wise vs SB/IB, but it costs a lot more.

Want an easy 1st PC, build an APU with the new A10-6800K.

 

[mkenyon]

Want an easy 1st PC, build an APU with the new A10-6800K.

Putting a video card in a PCI-E slot is the only thing that separates difficulty between the two. That is probably the easiest thing to do on a PC build too.

Just built an A8 HTPC, and it wasn't any easier than a standard build. Its also a lot worse performance for the dollar, and doesn't have very good prospects for longevity.

It runs stuff like Bastion and the Walking Dead really well though.

 

[dLMN8R]

Those 'few people' make up the majority of the PC gamers on this forum. It's pretty important stuff.

Are you really suggesting that the majority of PC gamers on this board overclock their CPUs? That it's actually "important" to be able to get acceptable performance?

 

[mkenyon]

Are you really suggesting that the majority of PC gamers on this board overclock their CPUs? That it's actually "important" to be able to get acceptable performance?

Absolutely. And yes.

You change *two* values in BIOS. It takes a total of 30 minutes of your active time to get 10-30% increased linear performance. It's not the scary endeavor it used to be.

 

[dLMN8R]

Absolutely. And yes.

You change *two* values in BIOS. It takes a total of 30 minutes of your active time to get 10-30% increased linear performance. It's not the scary endeavor it used to be.

You're conflating difficulty with desire and willingness. And you're forgetting the fact that:

1) It requires that the person actually built his own PC

2) The person actually bought a decent cooler because the stock cooler (especially for Sandy/Ivy Bridge) is absolutely not going to give you a stable overclock.


It's times like these where you really need to re-examine your understanding of the bubble you don't realize you're in.

 

[Kabouter]

You're conflating difficulty with desire and willingness. And you're forgetting the fact that:

1) It requires that the person actually built his own PC

2) The person actually bought a decent cooler because the stock cooler (especially for Sandy/Ivy Bridge) is absolutely not going to give you a stable overclock.


It's times like these where you really need to re-examine your understanding of the bubble you don't realize you're in.

Power consumption stops me more than anything tbh, also, the majority overclocking...hahah.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Are you really suggesting that the majority of PC gamers on this board overclock their CPUs? That it's actually "important" to be able to get acceptable performance?

yeah, it is. a lot of people are always asking for overclocking tips on the build a PC thread.

You're conflating difficulty with desire and willingness. And you're forgetting the fact that:
1) It requires that the person actually built his own PC
2) The person actually bought a decent cooler because the stock cooler (especially for Sandy/Ivy Bridge) is absolutely not going to give you a stable overclock.
It's times like these where you really need to re-examine your understanding of the bubble you don't realize you're in.

welp, people that are jumping into PC gaming on this board at least seem to be asking for it. your condescension is not necessary.

 

[Hazaro]

Cross posting:

Haswell overclocking is a fucking joke. Not to mention load draw while OC'd is TWICE the amount Sandy / Ivy needed. That's 8350 territory.

100C+ on stock cooler:

Aim a bit lower, you'll seemingly get 4.2Ghz easily and at a sane voltage, (And the 31 page ASUS OC guide seems to suggest 4.6Ghz being ma 24/7 average for a majority of Haswell)
but it runs HOT HOT HOT

owikh84 on KX has this:

Max clock under water is 4.8GHz
4.9 and 5.0 not bootable into windows and stuck at logon screen
Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Custom water Loop

Yeah I was scared, but it turns out its really easy. Is there any confirmation that haswell is NOT soldered?

Yup.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?286340-4770k-4670K-IHS-Removals

 

[tensuke]

My 6 year old Intel LGA775 mATX setup went up in smoke.

RIP

That's where I'm at atm, Q9550 @ 3.6 in a mATX board, about 5/6 years old. I don't see it lasting much longer. Luckily I haven't needed to upgrade yet since that, 8gb ram and a 6850 have been good enough for games so far. Will probably look into a 3820 soon though, would be nice to be able to just drop in a ivb-e as those come along.

 

[kharma45]

You're conflating difficulty with desire and willingness. And you're forgetting the fact that:

1) It requires that the person actually built his own PC

2) The person actually bought a decent cooler because the stock cooler (especially for Sandy/Ivy Bridge) is absolutely not going to give you a stable overclock.


It's times like these where you really need to re-examine your understanding of the bubble you don't realize you're in.

You can OC on the stock cooler, you can take a 3570K for example to 4GHz and it's not a problem.

Most PC gamers on here OC, it's easy to do and there is little trade-off in the grand scheme of things.

Cross posting:

Haswell overclocking is a fucking joke. Not to mention load draw while OC'd is TWICE the amount Sandy / Ivy needed. That's 8350 territory.

100C+ on stock cooler:

That ain't cool (pardon the pun).

 

[Hazaro]

Cross post for overclocking purposes.
_______

You can use this giant 31 page ASUS document:
It seems like ~4.2Ghz will be the starting point and 4.6GHz a target for many. It seems like the OC's are pretty horrible since they produce so much heat and use so much more power.
http://kylebennett.com/ASUS/OCingGuidev0.99.zip

You can have a CPU capable of 4.8GHz with a DDR3-1600 DRAM divider. (High OC can screw up memory OC)
You can have a CPU capable of 4.8GHz with a DDR3-2400 DRAM divider.
You can have a CPU capable of 4.8GHz with a 48 cache ratio with a DDR3-2400 DRAM
divider.

1. Approximately 70% of CPUs can go up to 4.5GHz. Overall, most CPUs are capable of
reaching 44x to 45x with varying levels of voltage. Voltage will be a key item as it defines thermal
output. It is possible to run out of thermal headroom at lower frequencies due to a processor
requiring excessive voltage for stability.
2. Approximately 30% of CPUs can go up to 4.6GHz
3. Approximately 20% of CPUs can go up to 4.7GHz
4. Approximately 10% of CPUs can go up to 4.8GHz

Currently we are seeing voltage ranges between 1.150v to as much as 1.400 for similar/same
frequencies. An example would be 4.6GHz requiring 1.200 and another CPU requiring 1.400.
This is important as a the overall maximum load a single radiator single 120mm closed loop
cooling solution can dissipate under synthetic stress test load is approximately 1.250 to 1.275v.
This is assuming the ambient temperature is reasonable.

A voltage level of 1.350v or greater, is too high for enthusiast cooling solutions including water
cooling. With this in mind, maximum temperatures should be gauged by the use of real world
applications rather than synthetic stress tests.

Given Haswell’s thermal characteristics, pursuing per core overclocking can be beneficial as this
helps to maximize core frequency for various loading conditions.

For a 4.6 GHz overclock attempt: However you set the voltage, it is advised you set a VID of
1.200.
For a 4.8 GHz overclock attempt: However you set the voltage, it is advised you set a VID of
1.300

For voltages up to 1.250-1.265 a cooling solution meeting a minimum of a Corsair H80i is
advised.
For voltages up to 1.275-1.300 a cooling solution meeting a minimum of a Corsair H100i is
advised.

 

[Toski]

So if I wanted to 4-4.2 GHz on a 4770k, would the stock cooler be good enough, or an aftermarket cooler be necessary?

 

[kharma45]

So if I wanted to 4-4.2 GHz on a 4770k, would the stock cooler be good enough, or an aftermarket cooler be necessary?

With the way Haswell is looking I'd invest in something aftermarket like the Hyper 212 Evo to be on the safe side. If you can afford a 4770K you can afford an aftermarket cooler

 

[Toski]

With the way Haswell is looking I'd invest in something aftermarket like the Hyper 212 Evo to be on the safe side. If you can afford a 4770K you can afford an aftermarket cooler

Part of me wants to chance it, but the other part was unsure if the EVO/Noctua cooler was as effective on Haswell as they are on SB/IB. Seeing as they still are, I'll pick one up.

 

[Hazaro]

Oh I guess Haswell isn't that bad, I mean look at this guy!

1.280V for 5Ghz (Prime run)!

.............oh
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Never mind. At least it can hit 5.0 :/

So if I wanted to 4-4.2 GHz on a 4770k, would the stock cooler be good enough, or an aftermarket cooler be necessary?

Stock is probably fine, but you are already paying a $30 CPU and mobo premium, might as well buy a cooler.

 

[1st Course]

Long live Haswell: With Broadwell only in 2015, a midterm refresh is on the cards

With near zero competition right now on the desktop front, why rush? Our sources say that, instead of Broadwell, the 2014 will see just a Haswell refresh first, likely a new CPU stepping combined with a new chipset.
Even with only the incremental CPU performance gain over the Ivy Bridge, Haswell still firmly rules the mainstream desktop CPU world. The substantially higher GPU performance and the improved power bill do help as well. So, since the tick tock model from 2008 is anyway a thing of the past now, why not extend the new CPU’s shelf life too, and maximise the return on the investment? After all, it’s not the case like some eight years ago when the competition was actually having a better performing product, and it won’t be the case for a while – read end 2014 at least.
So, our Computex sources advised us to give more focus on the Haswell, as we’ll be stuck with it pretty much until early 2015 at least; that’s the current Broadwell launch timeframe, too bad.

VR-Zone claims that Broadwell will launch in 2015 now.

 

[theSlacker]

Long live Haswell: With Broadwell only in 2015, a midterm refresh is on the cards




VR-Zone claims that Broadwell will launch in 2015 now.

God dammit AMD, get your shit together.

 

[kharma45]

Suppose that's good news for AMD, might help them catch up a bit.

 

[1-D_FTW]

http://techreport.com/review/24879/intel-core-i7-4770k-and-4950hq-haswell-processors-reviewed/12

4770k slightly beats the 3770k in latency tests. Close to being a wash, but it is slightly better. Power consumption, at least at stock, also seems comparable (maybe X-bit labs just had a crap motherboard... which is common at new launches.)

P.S. Man, those AMD A10 chips are dogs. They completely suck in latency benchmarks. Yuck.


If you're lucky enough to live near Microcenter, they're running awesome deals on Ivy and Haswell. 229.99 for a 3770k and mobo bundles to go with it.

http://www.microcenter.com/site/brands/intel-processor-bundles.aspx

 

[kharma45]

The A10 is a very low cost APU though, it's down at Core i3 money.

 

[1-D_FTW]

The A10 is a very low cost APU though, it's down at Core i3 money.

Maybe so, but the i3 still beats it when it comes to latency and destroys it in wattage. You can undervolt an i3 quite a bit and still run at stock voltages. The thing sips energy.

 

[kharma45]

The A10's can be too, compared the 5700 to the 3220, it's a 10w TDP difference at stock. But yeah latency AMD still aren't quite there.

 

[Ty4on]

Maybe so, but the i3 still beats it when it comes to latency and destroys it in wattage. You can undervolt an i3 quite a bit and still run at stock voltages. The thing sips energy.

No i3s can be overclocked though and in most threaded benches the A10 wins.

 

[synce]

Why are they still focusing on the desktop version? The mobile should be front page, no one's buying desktops anymore

 

[twofold]

They are focusing on mobile. Haswell is pretty meh for desktops, but it could be great for laptops. Unfortunately, there aren't any reviews of Haswell based laptops yet (outside of that single Engadget review, anyway). Hopefully we should see some Haswell based laptop reviews in the next few weeks.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Why are they still focusing on the desktop version? The mobile should be front page, no one's buying desktops anymore

Because Tech Report is an enthusiast site. And gaming-age is a gaming site (where desktop reigns supreme). Hence why some of us are interested in it. I'm sure there are a ton of laptop-esque reviews out there.

Gamers buy desktops. So at least there's still a money waving market for that. Laptops are getting destroyed by tablets. And the projections going forward are downright ugly for the next 5 years.

 

[bronzodiriace]

I have an I7 920 Bloomfield clocked to 4.4ghz HT ON, 12gb ddr3 1600mhz Corsair XMS and a Gigabyte Ex 58 extreme.

I cant' see a valid reason to upgrade my build ( I'd like to purchase a 990x) with haswell or Ivy Bridge.

Am I wrong?

 

[lowrider007]

*Hugs i5 2500k running at 4.4Ghz*

I'm kinda glad in way tbh, need a new GPU anyway and as others have said, hopefully this give AMD a chance to play catch up.