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[Hohenheim]

Nonsense, no one cares if a character is black, white, green, yellow, purple, male or female.
People however do dislike if characters are made unlikeable cunts, get uglified on purpose or utter real-world-politics tinted bullshit in escapism activities like gaming or movies....

Ok. Forget the colour then.
If someone is triggered by playing as a bald, somewhat masculine woman, that's a snowflake in my opinion.
I mean, fuckin hell. There's a huge variery of stuff out there. If ND wants to make a game like this, fine! There's plenty of games without "unlikable, uglified cunts" or "real world politics" out there.

A lot of this shit is just so silly. Only a snowflake would care about playing a videogame as a "uglified cunt".
I can play TLOU 2, Space Marine, DOOM and Alan Wake 2, and the last thing i'd think about is how my character looks and all that silly stuff.

 

[StueyDuck]

I love the fact that so many people keep calling the leftists "snowflakes" while at the same time crying their eyes out when the main character in a new videogame is black female (or anything that's not a white dude).
Snowflakes/crybabyes on both sides in this shit, as usual.

Ahh, the classic, "both are bad but really it's the anti-woke who are the real bad guys amaright?!?!"

We're still doing this in 2025?

Yes, it's race, that's exactly what everyone's critique is, you absolutely nailed it. Good job. There's never been beloved characters in gaming that weren't straight white men, none whatsoever. /s

 

[Hohenheim]

both are bad but really it's the anti-woke who are the real bad guys amaright?!?!"

No, both are silly af. Snowflakes. 50/50.

 

[laynelane]

Ahh, the classic, "both are bad but really it's the anti-woke who are the real bad guys amaright?!?!"

We're still doing this in 2025?

Yes, it's race, that's exactly what everyone's critique is, you absolutely nailed it. Good job. There's never been beloved characters in gaming that weren't straight white men, none whatsoever. /s

Yep, besides the actress, there's a slew of people that keep trying to make this about race and gender - while omitting the fact that gaming has had diversity in these categories since its inception. I can't speak for anyone else, but the character comes across as smarmy and difficult to like in the trailer. It's that simple and I suspect it's like that for many others too.

 

[Schmendrick]

Ok. Forget the colour then.
If someone is triggered by playing as a bald, somewhat masculine woman, that's a snowflake in my opinion.
I mean, fuckin hell. There's a huge variery of stuff out there. If ND wants to make a game like this, fine! There's plenty of games without "unlikable, uglified cunts" or "real world politics" out there.

A lot of this shit is just so silly. Only a snowflake would care about playing a videogame as a "uglified cunt".
I can play TLOU 2, Space Marine, DOOM and Alan Wake 2, and the last thing i'd think about is how my character looks and all that silly stuff.

once again going the black or white argumentation road.... this isn`t as simple as you depict it.

 

[StueyDuck]

No, both are silly af. Snowflakes. 50/50.

oh i have no doubts they are

I'm certain it's absolutely a 50/50 cut straight down the middle.

But we'll only call the one side out with ludicrous claims of racism and paint them as bad. But it's definitely a 50/50 cut. couldn't be more equidistant even if we tried

 

[Hohenheim]

oh i have no doubts they are

I'm certain it's absolutely a 50/50 cut straight down the middle.

But we'll only call the one side out. But it's definitely a 50/50 cut. couldn't be more equidistant even if we tried

Listen, I find the lefties absolutely bonkers. A bunch of crybabies with their "either you're with us, or you're a fascist/nazi/anti etc etc". It's crazy.
And the same thing applies to the right too.
They're actually quite similar in that way.

Maybe it's because the left side was dominating so much through the early 2000's and now we're having some sort of reaction to that bullshit. Probably is. But a stupid reaction to stupid behaviour is seldom good.
It's in between the common sense is usually found, but the loud minorities on each side is making common sense hard to find sometimes. Especially on the internet.
I see a lot of talk about "chads" and "non binarys", but what I read is usually a bunch of snowflake nonsense.

But discussing this stuff on a videogame forum is probably not the best idea.
I'm having high hopes for this new NG game, and hopefully it delivers with great gameplay and a immersive, awesome story.

 

[Bojji]

This is BS western-centric science and ignores the fact that entire nations worth of people living in Africa did so for hundreds of thousands of years with women who did not wear long hair.

So long hair is a recent western thing. Therefore, trying to contrive some argument about the evolved base nature of man around something that only appeared probably a few thousand years ago is not a sound hypothesis make.



2,500 yo is recent in terms of human history.

If you're making an argument about the evolved base nature of man, it needs to be consistently seen throughout the 300,000 or so years of human history. And for most of that time, women did not wear their hair long.

I had to answer to this old post. What?!

1. We have no idea what happened during those 200 000 years, we can only guess.

2. Women in Africa not having long hair?

These tribes are doing this for generations.

What about ancient Egypt? They were shaving hair for hygienic reasons but everyone was wearing a wig. Wigs were different between males and females:

Long hair females = cultural standard for almost every group of people.

 

[Matsuchezz]

Well those guys did not care when they hurt you by throwing parties and not inviting you, or laughing at you when you brought your nunchucks to school one day so why you should you care ?
When they finally understand it will be too late anyway...

Hahaha
Probably that is the kind of thing that offends you.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Ok. Forget the colour then.
If someone is triggered by playing as a bald, somewhat masculine woman, that's a snowflake in my opinion.
I mean, fuckin hell. There's a huge variery of stuff out there. If ND wants to make a game like this, fine! There's plenty of games without "unlikable, uglified cunts" or "real world politics" out there.

A lot of this shit is just so silly. Only a snowflake would care about playing a videogame as a "uglified cunt".
I can play TLOU 2, Space Marine, DOOM and Alan Wake 2, and the last thing i'd think about is how my character looks and all that silly stuff.

But here's the thing: very few are "triggered" by playing an ugly chick as MC. That's not the actual point.

A certain kind of ugly character is generally the symptom of something worse: an ANNOYING character, which in a narrative game is a red flag.

If Jordan is cool like Nathan Drake and the worldbuilding is interesting, few people will care about her looks. The reactions are caused by the overall vibes of the game fueled by its author's ego.

 

[Hohenheim]

But here's the thing: very few are "triggered" by playing an ugly chick as MC. That's not the actual point.

A certain kind of ugly character is generally the symptom of something worse: an ANNOYING character, which in a narrative game is a red flag.

If Jordan is cool like Nathan Drake and the worldbuilding is interesting, few people will care about her looks. The reactions are caused by the overall vibes of the game fueled by its author's ego.

But who are all these annoying characters? It seems to be a huge problem, based on everything I read online and on this forum, but I can't really see it.
I play lots of games, and i've had very few issues with this.
The only ones I can think of right now is Spiderman, Forspoken and Veilguard.

 

[damidu]

I love the fact that so many people keep calling the leftists "snowflakes" while at the same time crying their eyes out when the main character in a new videogame is black female (or anything that's not a white dude).
Snowflakes/crybabyes on both sides in this shit, as usual.

Can't wait for the new Druckman game btw. After the sheer brilliance of TLOU 2, i'm very excited.

they'll be the first ones to rush every nd thread to tell everyone how uninterested they are. lol
they'll of course be the first ones to play the game too.
real mental bunch.

 

[rofif]

I completed that boring turd of a game, so yeah i played that scene.

It was absolute non-sense if you know even a little about real fighting between men and women.

It might be my fav game so let's say I disagree…

 

[StueyDuck]

Listen, I find the lefties absolutely bonkers. A bunch of crybabies with their "either you're with us, or you're a fascist/nazi/anti etc etc". It's crazy.
And the same thing applies to the right too.
They're actually quite similar in that way.

Maybe it's because the left side was dominating so much through the early 2000's and now we're having some sort of reaction to that bullshit. Probably is. But a stupid reaction to stupid behaviour is seldom good.
It's in between the common sense is usually found, but the loud minorities on each side is making common sense hard to find sometimes. Especially on the internet.
I see a lot of talk about "chads" and "non binarys", but what I read is usually a bunch of snowflake nonsense.

But discussing this stuff on a videogame forum is probably not the best idea.
I'm having high hopes for this new NG game, and hopefully it delivers with great gameplay and a immersive, awesome story.

So to be clear, the in between here is that everyone who has a complaint is a racist bigot?

As for the original statement you made.

 

[Hohenheim]

So to be clear, the in between here is that everyone who has a complaint is a racist bigot?

As for the original statement you made.

No.
My point, which I probably didn't make clear, is that both sides in this sort of discussion (i'm talking about more than this forum, obviously) is a bunch of snowflaky crybabies.

On the left: You don't agree? Well, you're a racist bigot (which is stupid and crazy)
On the right: "This video game character is uglified, where is the strong male? Why does she not look super hot? Why is she bald? Why do they include pronoums??"
(A bunch of sobbing snowflakes)

So, in my opinion these loud voices on each side have one thing in common: they're a bunch of crybabyes and annyoing snowflakes, which thankfully seems to be more vocal online than in real life. I don't think I know anyone who have these issues with this stuff in real life.

 

[neocycle]

I need to be coached on how to overcome Neil Druckmann.

 

[longrainwater]

I personally wasn't a fan of the story in The Last of Us. I could see the ending coming by mid game and was tired of the violence (thought the game was going to be a slightly darker uncharted with Zombies).

With that said, Druckmann is a genius who has changed the landscape in gaming by raising the level of storytelling and writing, even if not my cup of tea.

 

[Tams]

Harassing a woman on social media because she's bald is pathetic tbh. And why is it ok for a man to be bald in games but not a woman? We don't know even know how the story is going to unfold either so hating on an actress before it even comes out is insane.

Most bald men look ugly too.

 

[MoreJRPG]

Given the state of the games industry right now a straight white male lead is the minority at this point.

 

[Knucklepux]

I get that people are allowed to make an educated guess.
but isn't the mess of Naughty Dog 'woke' game count is only 1. They have literally made one controversial game and that's it.

Let them allow to fail twice before cementing they are crap.

It's more commentary on which direction they're heading. With Druckmann being the reason for last of us part 2 writing being shit and also now being the head of naughty dog, it's fair to be incredibly skeptical. Especially in light of what we see for intergalactic. He's learned nothing.

At this point we can only assume that an uncharted 5 would see Nate get killed off by a "misunderstood villain" and a female take the lead. With Druckmanns brave writing!!!

 

[GymWolf]

It's more commentary on which direction they're heading. With Druckmann being the reason for last of us part 2 writing being shit and also now being the head of naughty dog, it's fair to be incredibly skeptical. Especially in light of what we see for intergalactic. He's learned nothing.

At this point we can only assume that an uncharted 5 would see Nate get killed off by a "misunderstood villain" and a female take the lead. With Druckmanns brave writing!!!

Unchy5 is gonna have nate nonbinary daughter as protagonist, the writing was on the wall at the end of u4.

 

[Knucklepux]

Unchy5 is gonna have nate nonbinary daughter as protagonist, the writing was on the wall at the end of u4.

How brave! What an amazing way to subvert our expectations! How amazing! Bravo! No one saw that coming!

I swear Druckmann is a Reddit incel/white knight that just got lucky

 

[StueyDuck]

No.
My point, which I probably didn't make clear, is that both sides in this sort of discussion (i'm talking about more than this forum, obviously) is a bunch of snowflaky crybabies.

On the left: You don't agree? Well, you're a racist bigot (which is stupid and crazy)
On the right: "This video game character is uglified, where is the strong male? Why does she not look super hot? Why is she bald? Why do they include pronoums??"
(A bunch of sobbing snowflakes)

So, in my opinion these loud voices on each side have one thing in common: they're a bunch of crybabyes and annyoing snowflakes, which thankfully seems to be more vocal online than in real life. I don't think I know anyone who have these issues with this stuff in real life.

Well, that's definitely not what your initial comment implied.

You must have worded it very poorly.

I love the fact that so many people keep calling the leftists "snowflakes" while at the same time crying their eyes out when the main character in a new videogame is black female (or anything that's not a white dude).

This very much reads as, "people are calling the leftists snowflakes, meanwhile they themselves are crying because they are racist bigots".

I'm just letting you know that is how the sentence reads.

 

[Hypereides]

Kinda would've liked if this guy still hung around at ND:

He was he lead character artist at ND's Uncharted games (1 and 2) and was the guy behind Drake's original design. He's since left the studio somewhere in the early 2010's. His easygoing character designs would probably not fly at the current ND.

 

[Knucklepux]

Well, that's definitely not what your initial comment implied.

You must have worded it very poorly.


This very much reads as, "people are calling the leftists snowflakes, meanwhile they themselves are crying because they are racist bigots".

I'm just letting you know that is how the sentence reads.

How come the statement "representation matters" only applies to women and people of color?

If representation matters and people want to see characters that "look like them", then shouldn't white protagonists continue to be the majority? Especially since that's the main gaming demographic?

Equality and representation shouldn't be… "well you had a bunch of white leads for a long time so now we're going to tip the scales and make them all women and people of color". That isn't equality and you certainly aren't balancing the scales.

Just because historically there was a bunch of white protagonists, doesn't mean that the now younger audience doesn't get to have representation anymore.

People roll their eyes at a new game featuring a woman lead or person of color because, just like movies and TV, video games are making it so painfully obvious and it never feels organic. Just forced

This idea that only white people need to be all welcoming and not be upset about a female or black protagonist is so dumb.

I didn't fucking play with Barbie's when I was little, I played with GI Joes.

 

[Hohenheim]

This very much reads as, "people are calling the leftists snowflakes, meanwhile they themselves are crying because they are racist bigots".

That was not how I intended it to read, but yeah some obviously are.
As i've been trying to explain, I find both sides fuckin stupid (the loud minorities on the edges of each side)
Someone else could could probably read it as "what? You're calling the leftists snowflakes? Fuck you then"

The world is full of cunts all over the shop.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Ok. Forget the colour then.
If someone is triggered by playing as a bald, somewhat masculine woman, that's a snowflake in my opinion.
I mean, fuckin hell. There's a huge variery of stuff out there. If ND wants to make a game like this, fine! There's plenty of games without "unlikable, uglified cunts" or "real world politics" out there.

A lot of this shit is just so silly. Only a snowflake would care about playing a videogame as a "uglified cunt".
I can play TLOU 2, Space Marine, DOOM and Alan Wake 2, and the last thing i'd think about is how my character looks and all that silly stuff.

When you single out "just one developer" what you're saying doesn't seem so bad but you are 100% minimizing a more general problem in the industry. People are so fed up with wokeness and forced agendas shoved in MANY of our games. This is making games worse than they used to be! Naughty Dog is also a huge developer responsible for many people's favorite games so to see them go down this path is obviously going to upset a lot of people who remember the days when we didn't have to constantly be talked down to, preached about, reminded of gay and Trans characters every few hours, etc.

The uglification of characters is just one of many smaller annoyances that we see as making games less fun and enjoyable. As many people have said most prefer to play as an attractive character and when you get females being made uglier and not males, the agenda is again obvious!

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

That was not how I intended it to read, but yeah some obviously are.
As i've been trying to explain, I find both sides fuckin stupid (the loud minorities on the edges of each side)
Someone else could could probably read it as "what? You're calling the leftists snowflakes? Fuck you then"

The world is full of cunts all over the shop.

Did you ever stop and think maybe the people complaining about the overabundance of female leads, who all happen to be made uglier than their real life counterparts, are not "cunts"? See that's the problem....you very much have already decided that they don't have a valid point and are bigoted so of course you're entire view of the situation is skewed. You're virtue signaling and its clear where your priorities are. I don't think you fall in "the middle" at all.

 

[Hohenheim]

People are so fed up with wokeness and forced agendas shoved in MANY of our games. This is making games worse than they used to be! Naughty Dog is also a huge developer responsible for many people's favorite games so to see them go down this path is obviously going to upset a lot of people who remember the days when we didn't have to constantly be talked down to, preached about, reminded of gay and Trans characters every few hours, etc.

I play lots of games in most genres, and I can't relate much to this stuff.
You're saying ND are making games worse then they used to, but TLOU 2 is their best game in my opinion. I didn't feel "talked down to and preached to"

The only two games i've had any issues like this with in the last few years are Forspoken (very annoying main character), and Veilgard (trans simulator).
I play about 20-30 games every year, and I really don't see the big issue here.

I'm just glad that so many awesome games are released every year, and it's always something new and cool to play.
And if something doesn't feel right, there's always something else to check out.

 

[Hohenheim]

Did you ever stop and think maybe the people complaining about the overabundance of female leads, who all happen to be made uglier than their real life counterparts, are not "cunts"? See that's the problem....you very much have already decided that they don't have a valid point and are bigoted so of course you're entire view of the situation is skewed. You're virtue signaling and its clear where your priorities are. I don't think you fall in "the middle" at all.

Well, you're wrong. I'm definitely in the middle. I see stupid, silly shit on "both sides".
And obviously every dude who has issues about this "uglification" is not a proper cunt. I wouldn't mind seeing beautiful babes everywhere, but I have never had any issues with how females appear in modern games. It's not like I would enjoy Forbidden West more if Aloy had a thinner, more classic beautiful face..
The constant crying and moaning about this stuff.. I just don't get it.
I'd never noticed much of this if not for the constant crying online.

And don't get me started on what's going on on resetera.. that place is pure poison, where people gets permabanned for speaking their mind if their view don't fit into the "correct" way. It's insane.

So yeah, i'm seeing (in my opinion) a whole bunch of bullshit og stupid takes on both sides, but thankfully i'm just enjoying lots of great games.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

Can't speak for everyone else but in my case, I don't care who she is or what she does with her hair or her life or whatever.

Problem I see here is that they are trying to promote a videogame featured by yet another ugly, muscular female and people seem to really don't like that. It's not a matter of hating or being angry, but more like I don't spend my money on ugly stuff. After all, looking at myself in the mirror is free.

I imagine that most of the hate (complaints) have been directed towards the game and the in-game model and not the actress, but I might be wrong since I don't follow social media stuff.

I mean this is just kinda silly to breakdown. Do you think people scoff at the idea of playing Mario because hes a fat plumber in overalls? Discount him being an icon now in gaming, and just take that at face value

Also shes definitely not ugly, but I would agree that she doesn't fit the norm of beauty standards bc shes bald. But she looks like Amber Rose, who is by no means unattractive

 

[Critical Hit]

I completed that boring turd of a game, so yeah i played that scene.

It was absolute non-sense if you know even a little about real fighting between men and women.

Completely disagree about "boring turd" and completely agree about "absolute non-sense". I can't understand why the devs/authors are trying to make women look physically equal to men.

 

[JCK75]

I'll never understand this behavior..
I think the game looks like shit, the character looks like shit..
is it the actors fault? no.. she got hired.. she provided a voice as instructed and collected a paycheck

The most I need to do to express my displeasure is not buy the game and move on with my life.

 

[Moriarty1889]

Given the state of the games industry right now a straight white male lead is the minority at this point.

More like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Doesn't fit the narrative these days.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I play lots of games in most genres, and I can't relate much to this stuff.
You're saying ND are making games worse then they used to, but TLOU 2 is their best game in my opinion. I didn't feel "talked down to and preached to"

The only two games i've had any issues like this with in the last few years are Forspoken (very annoying main character), and Veilgard (trans simulator).
I play about 20-30 games every year, and I really don't see the big issue here.

I'm just glad that so many awesome games are released every year, and it's always something new and cool to play.
And if something doesn't feel right, there's always something else to check out.

What I'm saying is not that ND is making bad games, in fact LoU2 is a great game, what I'm saying is they're making their own games worse than they would be had they not shoved their agenda in there at every other hour of the game.

 

[Hohenheim]

What I'm saying is not that ND is making bad games, in fact LoU2 is a great game, what I'm saying is they're making their own games worse than they would be had they not shoved their agenda in there at every other hour of the game.

Yeah, I don't know man.
I never once during that game thought about any agenda.
I just enjoyed a fantastic game with a amazing storyline.
I don't think I would have though any different about it if the main character was a hot hetrosexual babe, or a strong handsome dude to be honest.

I do get the "agenda" thing in some cases, for sure.
Veilguard? Oh, yeah. That was pretty obvious, and the whole game makes me thing about that crazy person who stated that he (or she?) wanted to see the industry "crash and burn" because of a lack of diversity (?)

But in 99% of the games I play, I just don't see this "agenda".

What would you change in TLOU 2 to make it a better game then? What's the "agenda"?
Because it has to be something bigger and more important than having a lesbian girl as the main character for it to actually make the game worse than it could be, right? Is it the trans person that have a small role in there?
The lack of a classic strong male hero?
I'm not trying to be a dick here, I just want to understand this, because it keeps coming up and I just don't get it in most of the cases (like in this game).

 

[balls of snow]

Tati was great in You. Should have been the one to kill Joe. She acted her ass off in that 1 ep shes in in the last season. Now Bronte in the same series was an annoying af character. Appearance has little to do when you are written to be a dumbass.

Similarly but not really, the girl Rose that got hate from Last Jedi is still bloody annoying in that movie she was in. Mainly because the movie was written that way.

 

[Woggleman]

Some people see the agenda everywhere just like people on the side see oppression everywhere. It's two sides to the same coin.