isamu said:I thought you already had a 1yr sub?
Nah it was a 3 month thing before.
edit. or was it 6
isamu said:I thought you already had a 1yr sub?
Dave Kaemmer said:I have dedicated my professional life, over 20 years, to working on racing simulations and physics models. This new tire model is our best work ever. It was incredibly challenging and time consuming to develop an understanding, mathematically speaking, of a racing tire at the limit and under all sorts of conditions and that was just phase one. To then translate that into a working model within the simulation was incredibly taxing but it was truly a labor of love. The tires are clearly the hardest thing to simulate for any racing title, but I think weve nailed it! I believe it is going to bring simulated racing to a whole new level of enjoyment and realism.
Driver aids available for private leagues and Rookie series (ABS brakes, traction control, driving line, steering aids, etc.)....
19Kilo said:Driver aids available for private leagues and Rookie series (ABS brakes, traction control, driving line, steering aids, etc.).
isamu said:wait wait wait.....WHAT????? Driving assists in iRacing??? Wow that is a freakin TERRIBLE idea! I seriously hope they reconsider this decision. Even if it's restricted to the rookie series, it's going to encourage new players to rely on driving aids and pick up bad habits. This is just....bad bad bad!
isamu said:wait wait wait.....WHAT????? Driving assists in iRacing??? Wow that is a freakin TERRIBLE idea! I seriously hope they reconsider this decision. Even if it's restricted to the rookie series, it's going to encourage new players to rely on driving aids and pick up bad habits. This is just....bad bad bad!
19Kilo said:
mclaren777 said:19Kilo is always just slightly faster than me.
Well played.19Kilo said:and I also tend to post iRacing news before you do
19Kilo said:
markao said:T To easy and too much grip have for to many so called hardcore simmer always been associated with "arcade" and hearing Dave K. talk about 3x times as much grip, easier to control, it makes me wonder how open for something different/new people are.
amar212 said:What is the real 1-year price to have all in-game content available? I talk about having all tracks in the first place, cars are less important - but would like to know? Also, once you buy the tracks (cars) you don't have to buy them again for the next year, you just prolong membership, yes? Thanx in advance.
amar212 said:What is the real 1-year price to have all in-game content available? I talk about having all tracks in the first place, cars are less important - but would like to know? Also, once you buy the tracks (cars) you don't have to buy them again for the next year, you just prolong membership, yes? Thanx in advance.
blurredvision said:I found this question interesting, so I logged on to see if I could get maybe a little more specific number than what jlevel13 provided.
Cars
There are 23 vehicles total at this very moment. I'm counting the Modified as one even though you get two separate vehicles (SK and Tour) with one purchase. Of those 23, 5 are included in the base subscription and do not cost extra. Vehicles are a set $11.95 apiece, so without any discounts, you're looking at $215.10 for 18 vehicles.
Tracks
I counted a total of 45 tracks (+1 free track next week), of which 9 are included in the base subscription and do not cost extra. Most of these have multiple configurations for the one purchase. Most tracks are $14.95 although some of the smaller tracks are $11.95. I'm currently unable to see which cost less because I've bought most of them. I'm confident that of the 36 purchasable tracks, there are at least 6 that are $11.95, so I'm going to use that as my number. My final price may be give-or-take, let's say, $9. Without any discounts, you're looking at $520.20 for 36 tracks.
When you license any 3-5 pieces of content at the same time, you get a 10% discount. If you license any 6+ pieces of content, you get a 20% discount. If you license ALL remaining content (cars + tracks) that you do not have, you get a 25% discount.
So if you signed up for a subscription and decided that you had to have all of the tracks (no cars) immediately, you'd pay $416.16 after the 20% discount. If you decided to license everything they offered in regards to tracks and cars, you'd pay $551.47 after the 25% discount. These prices are not including any monthly/yearly subscription fees you have to pay just to access these licenses.
Like was already answered before, iRacing does preserve your licensed content between lapsed subscriptions. You only need to license content once in your lifetime for your account. I subbed a couple years ago and bought some tracks and cars. I let my sub lapse for about a year and just signed back up last week. I still have all the cars and tracks I licensed from before. They will stay with my account until iRacing shutters their doors.
markao said:Also extremely curious how this will be received, people have been driving on more or less the same be it slightly modified "Papy tire curves" for years and listening to some of the interviews with Dave K., I might get me some popcorn ready. To easy and too much grip have for to many so called hardcore simmer always been associated with "arcade" and hearing Dave K. talk about 3x times as much grip, easier to control, it makes me wonder how open for something different/new people are.
isamu said:blurredvision, as someone who appears to be fairly new to the forum, I'd like to say welcome and thanks for that VERY useful post. This information will likely serve as invaluable to many gamers who may be considering the iRacing service. Well done, sir
amar212 said:jlevel13 and blurredvision, thank you very much for your answers, much appriciated!
Since you both are avid players, could you do some breakdown of pros/cons of iRacing service?
Me and my friends are now looking into possibility to subscribe as a group, but I do not understand is there a way to run private races and have cars racing only by default setting? Also, have they established default-only setting lobbies for public racing?
We are pretty much fans of "same setup for all" philosophy, where verything is the same foer everyone. Is that kind of competition existing on iR?
Thank you in advance for answers, regards!
Joseph Merrick said:in my experience the racing sim people. on iracing especially, are very open to change, very patient in learning. and good at adjusting themselves. so I doubt there will be a problem with backlash at all. seriously, you relearn the game with each new car. I really haven't got the same impression as you about the people in the iracing community. and I'm pretty sure everyone is aware the current model isn't the best there is and the best that can be. especially off-track the current tire is quite shit.
amar212 said:could you do some breakdown of pros/cons of iRacing service?
blurredvision said:I spend most of my time spectating races and ghost driving in them.
isamu said:Can you explain exactly what Ghost driving means and what goes on with this while spactating a race? Are you like, inside the driver's car looking at the same cockpit view he is? Or is there something else involved?
amar212 said:I am still amazed they charge for private sessions, that is a major lunacy although I understand it from commercial point.
jlevel13 said:Well, it's not P2P, so you are basically renting space & bandwidth on their dedicated servers, so it kind of makes sense. It's probably a lot cheaper than renting your own server, yes? Somebody has to pay for it, I guess, just like most PC games with dedicated servers.
blurredvision said:At any time, you can spectate any race, open practice, or hosted session that is currently running as long as you own the content you're trying to spectate. If you haven't purchased a particular track or car yet, then you cannot spectate races that use that content. Each race has a set number of spectator slots available, but each race is allowed 40+ and I've never seen them anywhere close to being filled up.
Once you select a race to spectate, you can go into the game and view any vehicle from a multitude of camera angles. You can even view from the driver's seat if you'd like while they're driving.
You can also do a test drive, which is what I called "ghost driving". You basically hop into a vehicle and drive on the track. However, the people racing cannot see you, hit you, or otherwise even know you're there. You're essentially a ghost on the track. They'll drive right through you without knowing it.
isamu said:That sounds absolutely RIVETING!!!! I love love LOVE spectating other people play racing games so this is right up my alley!!! The fact that you can be on the same track driving against other people's car, and instead of them being the ghost YOU'RE the ghost, and in a realtime race no less, is something I haven't seen in ANY other racing game ever. That is totally sick!!
blurredvision said:I wanted to note that while I said you could spectate any hosted session that was in process, I just found out tonight that you cannot spectate private hosted sessions, i.e. those that have been password protected. It typically seems as if the majority of hosted sessions are open to all, though.
isamu said:Thanks for the clarification. That's still OK.
Also, whilst spectating, can you engage and participate in voice and text chat with other spectators as well? And with the drivers too?
Website:
Hosted Sessions
- Added the ability to purchase a session based on number of hours. The options are 2, 4 and 6 hours.
- Changed it so you can limit the race portion of your hosted session by laps, minutes or both (laps or minutes). If you select both, the race will conclude when X laps have completed or Y minutes have passed, whichever happens first.
- Added the ability to schedule hosted sessions to launch at some time in the future. The default is "now" but you can use a date picker to select a date in the future (up to 1 year) and specify a time. You should specify the date and time in your local time. You have to pick a time at least 15 minutes in the future.
- When you schedule a hosted session you will see it appear in the top part of the hosted sessions page. You'll see a new icon to the right that has a cancel link to cancel the session. You aren't charged until the session launches. At this time it isn't possible to edit a session once you have scheduled it. You will have to cancel and recreate.
Series Stats
- Fix to properly display PRO/WC licenses.
Mixed-Class Scoring
- If only a single driver registers for a mixed-class race in a particular class of car, that driver may only receive 50% of the full championship points that are available to drivers in that car class.
- Fix to include series name and season name rather than just season name when the user is registered for a race.
Series and Driver Stats CSV Exports
- Added custid to csv exports for series stats and driver stats.
Event Results CSV Exports
- The csv export functionality has been enhanced to allow you to export each individual portion of a race session. For example, if you have a hosted session with a qualifier and race component you can now export the race and qualifier results as separate csv files. You will notice that rather than having a single "OUTPUT CSV" button there is now a button in each results table.
- There is also a new session summary that will appear at the top of the csv file by default. This provides some useful information that had been missing from the export.
- The feature was designed to be backward compatible with existing automated scripts. Your existing scripts should work the same way. You will only need to make a change if you want to include the new summary information in your export. To do so you need to append "&includeSummary=1" to your GetEventResultsAsCSV request.
Forum Private Message Notifications
- Added a new section to the site footer that displays how many unread private messages you have.
- Added a new section to the site footer that notifies you if your private message box is full.
- Added a forum profile link added to the helmet pop-ups throughout the site. This will provide a way to search for a member and then easily jump to their forum profile for watching/ignoring.
Practice Sessions
- Open Practice sessions for the majority of series have been opened up for all license levels.
Awards/Certificates
- The personal stats page has been reworked to now have 3 tabs (Career, Awards and Certificates). The Certificates tab will contain all of your earned certificates (Driving School Completion, First Road Win, Season Race Overall, etc). The Awards tab will contain all of the NEW "Achievement" type awards (Hard Charger, iLetYouWin, Picasso, etc). Achievements are not retroactive, so get out there and start earning them!
General
- Updated code to facilitate the moving of clubs between regions on a per quarter basis.
Forums
- It is now possible to "watch" a member's forum activity. From a member's forum profile you can select to watch/unwatch a member. Every time a member you are watching makes a forum post you will receive an email with a link to the post.
- It is now possible to ignore a member's forum activity. This choice is available in the member's profile and from the profile section to the left of each post. If you choose to ignore a member all of that member's posts will be hidden to you in the threads and replace by a subdued message "You are ignoring <Member Name>". To stop ignoring a member, you need to visit that member's forum profile and choose to stop ignoring them. You can get to the member's forum profile by clicking on their name in the subdued message or by selecting the "Forum Profile" link from that member's helmet pop-up anywhere on the member site. Ignoring a member does not block Private Messages from that user.
- Private Message inbox full indicator added. This message will be displayed in a black message bubble at the top of the forums.
- "Edit" and "Quote" text has been added to the icons for each post.
IE9
- IE9 has been added to the list of allowed browsers.
Reference Documents Page
- This has been rewritten to better organize the documents and make it much easier to find what you are looking for.
Live Broadcast Bar
- There is a new live broadcast bar that appears at the top of the member's site to notify you that a live broadcast is happening on iracing.com. It will appear 5 minutes prior to a broadcast and links out to the live broadcasts page on iracing.com.
Driving School
- There are a few known issues with the youtube video player. The popup resolution menu doesn't work properly. You should be able to change your resolution by clicking on the resolution icon itself rather than mousing over it. Similar issue with the volume control. To change your volume you should click on the volume icon but rather than using your mouse to change the volume use your keyboard's up/down arrows.
Car Number Preference
- You may choose a "preferred" car number for each car that you have purchased. Visit the My Racing/Customise Car(s) page and enter your preferred car number for each car. You may choose any 1- or 2-digit car number, with or without leading zeros, except that car number "0" is disallowed.
- Your preferred car number will be considered in all sessions except Races within Official iRacing series, where car numbers will be assigned by iRating, as before. With thousands of members on the service, it is inevitable that two or more people that have chosen the same preferred car number will join the same session.
- For sessions that can be registered for while in progress (open practices, and hosted sessions), you will be assigned your preferred number if no other driver that has previously joined the session was given that number. Otherwise, the server will assign an unused number to you. Your car number for a session can not be changed once one has been assigned to you. Withdrawing from the session, selecting a different number on the Customise Car(s) page, and rejoining the session will not change the car number that you were previously assigned.
- For sessions that require registration before the event starts (qualify, time trial, unofficial race), the service will prioritize requests for car numbers as follows:
1) A driver with a higher license has higher priority.
2) For drivers with the same license, the driver with the higher Safety Rating has higher priority.
3) If both license and SR are the same, the driver with the higher Corners Per Incident rating has higher priority.
4) In the unlikely even that all of those measures are the same, the system will prioritize the conflicting drivers.
- The preferred car number selection for a driver will be ignored if a higher priority driver has the same preference.
- Drivers that have no preference (or whose preference is being ignored) will be ordered by iRating and assigned car numbers counting from "1", but skipping any preferred car numbers that were allowed.
Simulation:
Misc
- Added app.ini option [view] DriverHeadNoPitch to lock head to horizon in pitch. This may be useful for people with motion platforms and static displays (such as a motion seats)
- Limited effect of pitch/roll lock to horizon to only ~25 deg.
- File dialog now supports pressing enter key as click/double click when file/folder selected in list.
- File dialog now handles partial path in filename properly.
- SoftTH 2.05 is now allowed to proxy D3D9.dll.
- Added keyboard support for focus on pace car and focus on most interesting using the *<driver><enter> keyboard shortcut (0 - pacecar, -1 to -3 focus on)
Graphics Engine
- A change was made to the shadow map system such that only one dynamic shadow map render target will update per frame. Previously, going around a turn might cause several to update all in the same frame resulting in a noticeable stutter on some PCs.
- Let windowed display grow to maximum size of desktop, not just primary display (the window can now span multiple monitors). On some systems spanning monitors may cause a significant drop in frame rate.
- A new option "PixelRatioWindowed" has been added to app.ini. In conjunction with the existing "pixelRatio", you may now specify different pixel ratios for windowed and full-screen modes.
Headlights At Night Tracks
- A preliminary version of headlight support for night racing at road courses has been added. Of course, only cars that actually have headlights will light up the track in front. You may drive cars without headlights in the dark, but you won't be able to see very well at all! Our current cars that have headlights are the Chevrolet Corvette C6R, Ford Falcon FG01 V8, Ford Mustang FR500S, Volkswagen Jetta TDI Cup, Mazda MX-5 Cup and Roadster, Riley MkXX DP, and Pontiac Solstice. (Note: our Radical SR8 does not have headlights at this time - the one we scanned did not have headlights installed)
- In the advanced graphics options there is a new option labeled "Headlight Detail." This has four settings, which allows you to adjust the headlight quality vs. performance tradeoff to match your PC's capabilities. If you have pixel shaders disabled, you may only select DISABLED or LOW.
- Headlights Detail options:
LOW - This is the fastest version of the headlights support. It works very well from in car. The main issue is that headlights illuminate both sides of walls and all sides of trackside objects, rather than just the side the headlight is located on. It also suffers from banding and aliasing in the headlight effects. If you have pixels shaders disabled, this mode provides even higher performance than with pixel shaders enabled. If having frame rate issues at Sebring night, try setting headlight detail to low, unchecking headlights on track in mirrors, turning off pixel shaders, and restarting the session. If this doesn't help see the info about the DISABLED option below.
MED - This version makes it so that headlights don't show up on the backsides of walls and objects, and reduces aliasing a bit. The main issue is that colored headlights (such as the yellow headlights of the C6R) only work on the track surface, and show up as white light on walls, trackside objects, and reflectors.
HIGH - This version provides the best quality by far, with colored headlights working on the track surfaces, walls, reflectors and trackside objects, and it also virtually eliminates all of the banding in the illumination of the track surface.
DISABLED - If after testing some night tracks on LOW, your system cannot provide acceptable frame rates, you may choose this option as a last resort, which will disable nearly all of the headlight effects. This may allow you to still run at the well lit night ovals (Richmond/Bristol) where headlights aren't needed. If you only ever run ovals, this is the best setting for you. WARNING: Don't try to drive at Sebring night without headlights if you value your safety rating.
- A related setting in the advanced graphics options is the "Headlights on track in mirrors" checkbox. When enabled the simulation will render the headlight illumination onto the track surface in each of your mirrors. This will affect your frame rate to some extent, so you might want to test it both ways in an open practice session with lots of cars around to check the difference in quality/performance of the racing experience. It may provide useful, when racing, to see the headlights coming up in your mirrors on the track surface however.
- In addition to the above options there are two options hidden in renderer.ini:
ProceduralHeadlights=0
MonochromeHeadlights = 0
Enabling procedural headlights will cause your car's headlights (and only yours), to be generated procedurally using a shader, so that bumps affect the light cone somewhat. This is an experimental feature, but it is a neat effect. It's not quite done yet, but it is cool already.
Enabling monochrome headlights will cause all car's headlights to render as white light, providing a bit less banding, and a bit higher performance in some cases.
Sound
- A new app.ini setting may fix crackles on some sound cards when using fmod. Add a new line containing overrideFmodFormat=1 to the [Audio] section of app.ini to enable this. If it does not help, remove the new line. This is applied by default to sound devices using chipsets made by Sigmatel.
New Telemetry SDK
- We have created a new telemetry SDK that supercedes the old SDK. The old SDK still functions, so pre-existing tools will still function for now.
- This new SDK now supports unlimited clients connecting to the iRacing sim. Now you can run your motion platform, external gauges, and live telemetry app all at once.
- It is possible for a connected client to send commands for remote control of replay and camera selection.
- The live information available to connected clients is suitable for running motion platforms, or gauges, or broadcaster support applications, but does not include the full array of on-car telemetry data, which only goes to telemetry files recorded to disk.
- A comprehensive array of on-car telemetry can now be recorded to disk while driving, for analysis using external telemetry tools when you finish driving your car, such as ride height sensors, shock travel, acceleration, etc.
- Pressing the alt-L key when in-car will start/stop recording to disk. Pressing alt-L while at the replay screen will have the sim automatically start recording each time you get into your car. Telemetry files are saved in a binary .ibt file (short for iRacing binary telemetry) located in the [my documents]\iracing\telemetry\ folder. The file will stop recording and close when you get out of your car, so that you can alt-tab to an external analysis tool and load the file up for analysis without having to quit the sim.
- A third party telemetry analysis application will be made available at some point "soon."
Garage
- The sim will now snap any setup values to validly achievable increments. Old setups which have values that cannot be achieved any more will automatically be converted when loaded. Adjusting a setting to the minimum or maximum will no longer result in a different set of increments.
New Pit Crew with Damage Repair
- The existing pit crew has been replaced with a new flexible scripting system for ALL of our cars. All cars now have their own unique pit stop behavior, including having the car jacked into the air, and also the pit crew can make repairs when a car is damaged. All cars now have full pit control black boxes and pit crews, even our rookie cars that did not previously have the ability to make pit stops. The pit crew is still entirely invisible, you will only see the effects of their work on your car.
- Every car has its own invisible pit crew. The performance of the pit crew is dependent on the level of the car, the higher level cars have much quicker, more effective pit crews, while the lower level cars have amatuer crews who are competent, but not as on the ball as the pros. Some cars fuel continuously, while others fill using multiple cans of gasoline. Some of the higher level cars use 12 gallon cans, while many of the lower level cars refuel using 5 gallon containers. (This can take a while if you're filling a 22 gallon tank using dinky little 5 gallon cans!) Some cars are jacked up outside first, then inside. Some are front, then rear, or front and rear at once. Some are air jacked all at once.
- While some of the cars we model are fuelled separately from when they are having their tires changed in their real life series, we have made the decision that all our cars can fuel and do other pit work at the same time. This is for consistency between our own cars as we can run any cars together in multi-class events at any time.
- There is a new race control rule called the Repairs Needed rule. This rule will show a meatball black flag (a black flag with an orange circle in the middle) if race control has decided your car must pit for repairs - a smoking engine or some kind of leak will trigger a meatball. You must pit within 4 laps - INCLUDING caution laps - to have your car seen to or race control will disqualify you. Finishing the race while carrying the meatball black flag will not give any post race penalty, so it is feasible to limp a car to the finish if you're close enough to the end of the race. Race control will not issue a meatball black flag to a driver who is being shown the white flag, or after race is over.
- Your car will not be allowed to leave its pitstall if the pit crew are not able to repair your car enough to pass black flaggable levels of damage. Your pit crew will tell you that they can't fix your car. If you have a fast-tow available, you may exit your car and re-enter to get a fresh car and continue the race.
- Your pitstall information box will show you the amount of time remaining for required and optional repairs. Work on required repairs is begun as various pit crew members finish their pitstop tasks and begin working on your damage. You will not be allowed to exit your pit stall until required damage repairs are completed. Once they are completed the pit flagger will lift his lollipop and you may choose to drive away if you don't want to spend time working on optional repairs, but if you sit and wait, they will work on optional repairs for as long as you want to wait for.
- Any penalties are served once all regular pitstop activities and required damage repair are completed, but before any optional damage begins repairing. The flagger guy will hold you in your stall until the penalty is served, then lift his lollipop and you may choose to drive away if you don't want to spend time working on optional repairs.
Physics
- We have improved the accuracy of how our physical surface model uses the laser scan surface data. This makes a significant improvement to every track, particularly tracks with crowning or concave banking. The result is that many cars feel a lot better to drive at many tracks, particularly road courses. But also some of the oval cars will likely need a little setup tweaking, as the more accurately captured concave banking will cause the right rear tire to generate a little more grip relative to the left rear and thus rotate a little more than previously when on throttle, making your old setups possibly a bit too oversteery.
- Brakes are now modelled as a proper rotational position based torsional spring so they can hold the wheel to its exact position better than the previous brake model which was purely velocity based and could allow a weird visual wheel rotation to occur when stopped but trying to accelerate against the brakes. Has no effect when driving at speed, only when a wheel is supposed to be held stationary.
Cars
- Only cars that have a starter motor can start or restart a stalled engine any time you want. To start a car with no starter motor it must either be in the correct pitstall or in your gridstall prior to the race beginning, where the pitcrew is available to start your motor on request. So, if you turn off or otherwise stall your Williams FW31, Dallara, Sprint Car, or Silver Crown during a race, you will need to tow back to your pitstall to get going again. Note that the anti-stall clutch aid typically prevents a car from stalling during driving conditions, so make sure you don't go turning the car off when out on track!
- Window nets and some other graphical elements in car cockpits have been animated to simulate movement with wind speed.
- Metal shaders have been adjusted to better represent chrome materials.
- All cars have had their fuel level minimums, maximums, and increments fine tuned for consistency.
Skip Barber Formula 2000
- Graphical model rebuilt to match the standards of our more current cars.
Riley MkXX Daytona Prototype
- Re-tuned dive planes so they may be used without excessive drag or balance change. This still requires an increase of the rear wing to balance it, but that is now well within the range of adjustment of the rear wing.
- Fuel cell resized to match newly introduced 2011 20 gallon fuel limit (down from 24 gal).
Dallara IndyCar
- The pit crew will now apply external cooling fans when the car is sitting on the grid or in the pit stall waiting for a race to start, or when sitting in the pit stall during non-race times, or during a lengthy repair. Like the rest of the pit crew, these are invisible cooling fans.
Williams-Toyota FW31
- The pit crew will now apply external cooling fans when the car is sitting on the grid or in the pit stall waiting for a race to start, or when sitting in the pit stall during non-race times, or during a lengthy repair. Like the rest of the pit crew, these are invisible cooling fans.
- The pit crew will put tire warmers on when the car is sitting on the grid or in the pit stall waiting for a race to start, or when sitting in the pit stall during non-race times. Like the rest of the pit crew, these are invisible tire warmers.
Chevrolet Silverado
- Shark fin added when at restrictor plate tracks.
New 2011 Chevrolet Impala Class B
- We have an updated version of the Chevrolet Impala Class B for 2011 that is very nearly ready for release, featuring a "preview" version of Dave Kaemmer's long awaited new tire physics model. If you own the existing Nationwide car you will get it free as the new car is a part of the same car package you already own. It will be made available at some point within the next week or three, once all the details are finalized for public consumption. We apologize for the delay.
Tracks
- Many tracks have had more pit stalls added so more cars can be run at once. See the attached spreadsheet for exact details on which tracks and pit stalls have been altered.
Sebring
- Now has a selectable night mode.
- Club configuration rolling start no longer goes green immediately.
Okayama
- Now available. Features two configurations: Full and Short.
mclaren777 said:Hopefully the iRacing guys will be at PAX Prime again this year because I'm want to pressure them into adding a bumper cam. If they're finally willing to allow driving aids in the lower divisions, surely they wouldn't mind adding non-cockpits camera views as well.
mclaren777 said:
It's a screengrab from The Dark Knight but I don't know who originally came up with the caption.isamu said:Hehe.....by the way, where is that pic from?
isamu said: