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[jimbobsmells]

People made the argument that trade and wealth brings progress but that is not the case at all with countries like Saudi-Arabia. People are still publicly beheaded, women and minorities have no rights, foreign workers are exploited sexually but for some reason we are unable to use diplomatic pressure against them. At least Sweden woke up.

Yes but not really unable. More like unwilling. It's major hypocrisy by the west.

 

[Alo0oy]

The citizenry of Saudi Arabia may not become ISIS if the monarchy is removed, but they may become worse. Saudi Arabians may not all support their monarchy or government, but many do. Many are nationalistic and love the lifestyle. And as we've seen with almost every country since the Arabian Spring, almost all are worse off initially. ISIS has come into power in the vacuum left after Saddam, Gaddafi were toppled and Al-Assad was almost toppled. Right now, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia rules with an iron fist just like Saddam did, what happens when they go? Most Saudi citizens openly protect and value their culture and country. Can you honestly sit here and say they would be open to more democracy? Or human rights? Will they accept non-Islamic religion? The circumstances need to be ripe for a change in how the country is run. Removing the monarchy, you'll have all the senior members, the ruling elite, religious clerics all try and get ahead. You'll have people who want increased secularism, but you'll also get hardliners who want to keep the country the way it is.

I agree with the rest of your post, human trafficking is a big problem not just in Saudi, but in the Gulf region, but this part I don't agree with at all.

The ISIS wasn't a result of just some dictators being toppled, while that may have played a big part, the biggest reason they exist is Saudi Arabia itself, like I said in a previous post, there were no terrorist organizations in the Middle East at all ~50 years ago, there were many fundamentalists, but they were blowing hot air most of the time, they had no money & no followers, most of the opposition to every dictator in the middle east was liberal, after the west gave those countries their independence, brutal dictators were left in their place, so the liberal opposition started losing ground because A) their peaceful protests were crushed repeatedly with no repercussion B) Saudi started importing their fundamentalist views.

There is no other explanation on why terrorist organizations didn't exist in the Middle East when Saudi had no influence, they didn't just pop out of thin air for no reason, the Middle East region between 1800-2000 was mostly a passive region where every country in the world chose a colony over it while people were just begging to be free, & after the end of colonialism dictatorships started rising, one of them was Saudi Arabia, & they exported their fundamentalist views rapidly after taking power, & then started funding them, that's when terrorism became a thing in the region.

 

[TarNaru33]

I am wondering if people are extremely optimistic about what would happen if the Saudi regime was toppled. We got people in here saying it won't be worse and "Saudi citizens aren't barbaric" (note: I am not saying they are), while at the same time Saudi Arabia exports more terrorism than any other country.. The scenario many of you desire; that we put pressure on Saudi regime or topple them, is very unlikely to play out the way we would like. They have been moving forward, albeit at a slow rate, but it is still progress...

The world isn't about what is "right or wrong" it is about what is the most acceptable outcome we can achieve. I agree with Rusty Nails, and I think everyone here needs to read his post before posting themselves. While the Saudi regime is not perfect, it is working with what it has, which is a high conservative citizen and political base.

We can not realistically pressure Saudi Arabia without unforeseeable consequences, which is why we don't, not because we don't want to. Especially when they are sitting on the world's greatest and most crucial resource at this time, they are not comparable to pressuring Iran either.

I understand critiquing Saudi Arabia, but wishing for anymore in my opinion, is wishful thinking.

 

[Baki]

Lots of reading. Lots of interesting stuff.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ke-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html

How reliable is the source?

 

[speculawyer]

I am wondering if people are extremely optimistic about what would happen if the Saudi regime was toppled. We got people in here saying it won't be worse and "Saudi citizens aren't barbaric" (note: I am not saying they are), while at the same time Saudi Arabia exports more terrorism than any other country.. The scenario many of you desire; that we put pressure on Saudi regime or topple them, is very unlikely to play out the way we would like. They have been moving forward, albeit at a slow rate, but it is still progress...

The world isn't about what is "right or wrong" it is about what is the most acceptable outcome we can achieve. I agree with Rusty Nails, and I think everyone here needs to read his post before posting themselves. While the Saudi regime is not perfect, it is working with what it has, which is a high conservative citizen and political base.

We can not realistically pressure Saudi Arabia without unforeseeable consequences, which is why we don't, not because we don't want to. Especially when they are sitting on the world's greatest and most crucial resource at this time, they are not comparable to pressuring Iran either.

I understand critiquing Saudi Arabia, but wishing for anymore in my opinion, is wishful thinking.

Oh, I think there is quite a good chance it would be worse. I think we would likely end up with another military strongman . . . you know, something like we already have in Egypt, Syria, Iraq (during Saddam rule), Libya (during Gaddafi's rule), etc.

 

[GameGuru59]

I'm sorry, but any country where a woman has to ask the permission of a man to leave the house or move around is not a civilized society and indeed has disturbing things in common with the Islamic State. I lived in Kuwait for a few years and remember seeing more knee-level skirts than hijabs, but there was a strong Wahabbi presence there and they were real nutjobs. It would be nicer if Saudi Arabians kept their archaic practices to themselves and stop exporting their hate ideology.

You have a pretty weird definition of "civilization" there. Is it ideal? Certainly not, but it's not like the people live in caves.

Yes but not really unable. More like unwilling. It's major hypocrisy by the west.

We can't afford to call the Saudi's out on their bullshit. So we are unable.