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Is buying a Mac about good technology, or is it lifestyle?
- Thread starter Musashi Wins!
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Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
Thanks for all of the helpful replies. I'm not interested in having the different parties in a flamewar, simply curious about the advantages/disadvantages of switching over to new hardware. I think my personal interest is primarily in a laptop (I'm somewhat casual in my use which consists of personal writing/digital photos/light music editing/internet access). That's also why I'm tempted by the mini unit their selling, as it seems a nice entry point to trying the OS. I wish I had a closer acquaintance who was using a Mac so I could try it more at my leisure.
Stability and transparency of use seem to be the biggest positive features and the ones that appeal to me. I kind of feel that at work/home since I rarely have the time to keep a network or system secured from less knowledgeable co-workers/friends I'm constantly allotting time to maintenance of my PC's. The nice part of this is that constant attention gives you opportunity to learn and make small tweaks to preference. The downside is that it's a waste of time when you want hassle free access.
The gaming issue...obviously I'm very interested in games but every time I get involved in PC gaming I find that time not as satisfying as good consoles/handhelds. It's just a preference. I'm someone who can be content playing the big hits watered down on whatever version of Xbox is out. Don't most major games come out on Mac too? I'll have to research this. I'd hate to miss out on something like Spore because I neglected my PC :lol How does this cross system compatability/emulation effect gaming? I take it though you can run some programs for PC on Mac that you can't necessarily change the environment enough to run a modern, full game?
Anyhow, many thanks for your thoughts. I'll keep shopping the idea...try out the cool and the tech.
Stability and transparency of use seem to be the biggest positive features and the ones that appeal to me. I kind of feel that at work/home since I rarely have the time to keep a network or system secured from less knowledgeable co-workers/friends I'm constantly allotting time to maintenance of my PC's. The nice part of this is that constant attention gives you opportunity to learn and make small tweaks to preference. The downside is that it's a waste of time when you want hassle free access.
The gaming issue...obviously I'm very interested in games but every time I get involved in PC gaming I find that time not as satisfying as good consoles/handhelds. It's just a preference. I'm someone who can be content playing the big hits watered down on whatever version of Xbox is out. Don't most major games come out on Mac too? I'll have to research this. I'd hate to miss out on something like Spore because I neglected my PC :lol How does this cross system compatability/emulation effect gaming? I take it though you can run some programs for PC on Mac that you can't necessarily change the environment enough to run a modern, full game?
Anyhow, many thanks for your thoughts. I'll keep shopping the idea...try out the cool and the tech.
I think this same thread has been on-going since I have been using a PC in 1989.
The ironic thing, is the same things the Mac is better at, it is STILL better at. It's like time has stood still, and these threads keep spouting the same crap.
The PC is the gaming machine. No question. But the Mac has it's own niche of value ... so you just need to decide what is right for you. It's just too bad the cost of the Mac makes it prohibitive for the average person to own both machines.
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I don't think it is trolling to say that Mac users LIKE being a niche user. It's a common theme in any product you buy. It is why comapnies brand a product or create advertising that gives the idea of a lifestyle. We build identity with the products we buy (especially cars, clothes and technology).
So, buying something because of the "lifestyle" is more of a subliminal choice ... rather than an overt one.
The ironic thing, is the same things the Mac is better at, it is STILL better at. It's like time has stood still, and these threads keep spouting the same crap.
The PC is the gaming machine. No question. But the Mac has it's own niche of value ... so you just need to decide what is right for you. It's just too bad the cost of the Mac makes it prohibitive for the average person to own both machines.
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I don't think it is trolling to say that Mac users LIKE being a niche user. It's a common theme in any product you buy. It is why comapnies brand a product or create advertising that gives the idea of a lifestyle. We build identity with the products we buy (especially cars, clothes and technology).
So, buying something because of the "lifestyle" is more of a subliminal choice ... rather than an overt one.
FortNinety
Member
Question: has anyone used Pages? Is it as good/better than Office X? Can it read/save as .doc's with ease? If so, I'll run to the Apple Store and get it this very minute. God I fucking hate Office.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
I own a WinXp machine at home and work with Mac's and PC's at the office. I like both for various reasons and both have their pluses and minuses. I own a PC because of the games. If I didn't play PC games, I'd have a Mac at home.
From my perspective, Mac's are definetly more transparent to use. Apple seems to have a better grasp on making things work better for the average computer user. They are very stable and secure. Some of that comes from being a small segment of the computer market, and some of that comes from a great OS whose core is based on Unix. From a support stand point, the Macs are much easier to work with.
Now, that said, if you are using a Windows machine and switch to a Mac, you will struggle at first. They both work differently and navigation can be a hassel when first going between the machines. Compatibilty is an issue that disappeared a long time ago however. The Internet brought on a better set of standards that has made most OS'es work bettr, Macs and Windows included. Office works great on both systems and the files are cross compatible. The Internet, and GAF, look essentially the same on both as well.
The lifestyle aspects of the Mac have been played up a lot in recent years so that Apple could sell more computers. The whole "switch" thing a few years back was a, mostly poor, attempt to get Windows users to jump to a Mac. Apple does put a lot more time and effort into making their machines more appealing then any other computer company, and that is certainly a part of their draw. The iPod has simply increased Apples Lifestyle appeal. To me, it's kind of what you make of it. If Apple moves ahead with their rumored plans to build set-top boxes for TV's, branches out more into cell phones, creates an iTablet, or what ever, I think you'll see them leveraging the "lifestyle" more fully.
From my perspective, Mac's are definetly more transparent to use. Apple seems to have a better grasp on making things work better for the average computer user. They are very stable and secure. Some of that comes from being a small segment of the computer market, and some of that comes from a great OS whose core is based on Unix. From a support stand point, the Macs are much easier to work with.
Now, that said, if you are using a Windows machine and switch to a Mac, you will struggle at first. They both work differently and navigation can be a hassel when first going between the machines. Compatibilty is an issue that disappeared a long time ago however. The Internet brought on a better set of standards that has made most OS'es work bettr, Macs and Windows included. Office works great on both systems and the files are cross compatible. The Internet, and GAF, look essentially the same on both as well.
The lifestyle aspects of the Mac have been played up a lot in recent years so that Apple could sell more computers. The whole "switch" thing a few years back was a, mostly poor, attempt to get Windows users to jump to a Mac. Apple does put a lot more time and effort into making their machines more appealing then any other computer company, and that is certainly a part of their draw. The iPod has simply increased Apples Lifestyle appeal. To me, it's kind of what you make of it. If Apple moves ahead with their rumored plans to build set-top boxes for TV's, branches out more into cell phones, creates an iTablet, or what ever, I think you'll see them leveraging the "lifestyle" more fully.
kitchenmotors
Banned
As someone who has switched from PC to Mac, I will never be going back to PC. The last PC I had I nearly pulled out my hair trying to battle spyware and pop-up ads. I did everything, and had all these programs to battle it. I have none of those problems on my Mac. I laugh at the Desktop threads when I see PC guys with 4 programs just to battle spyware. :lol
Plus I have yet to have a crash on my Mac. OSX is just so much more stable than XP.
Plus I have yet to have a crash on my Mac. OSX is just so much more stable than XP.
Yes.FortNinety said:
Yes. Think Mac WordPerfect, but with most of the clunky interface issues from ye olde days of yore resolved. On my first try using Pages, I discovered the Inspector without being prompted - it's the hub for adjusting properties of things in your document, as well as functions like embedded media. I was able to format some jibberish nicely in a quicky table and embed a Quicktime clip of the Finding Nemo trailer. I moved the clip to the scene I wanted, then exported the whole thing to PDF. It not only showed a smooth screen shot of the clip in the proper place in the PDF, but also at the frame I had placed the clip at.
Yes, although complex stuff from Word and Pages may not turn out so hot after the converstion. For instance, exporting one of Pages' neato templates to Word may result in a weird looking Word document. For simpler stuff, the export/import functions work great.
Also, the PDF export is quite handy. It's quite amusing that a $80 program totally negates most of the need for Adobe Acrobat.
iWork is only $80. Buy it now. Keynote is a nice package as well - don't forget to check it out. It does handle Powerpoint import/export, as well as Flash and Quicktime. An example of Keynote: remember Steve's Macworld speech? The slides were all running on Keynote. All of those transitions were in Keynote's realtime OpenGL - and the presentation didn't crash.
Phoenix
Member
What you love about OSX, you will solidify in 10.4. I'll just start with that.
Now to answer the question. To be honest, I wouldn't necessarily say that a Mac always has the best technology in it hardware-wise. In fact many times its about 6-8 months behind the curve in what you can get on a Windows box. So from a hardware perspective I'd say 'kinda'. The hardware is cute, but I could care less about cute hardware. I'm a pure function over form person. If it happens to look good - that's a bonus, not a requirement for purchase. However Macs run considerably cooler and are much much much quieter than their PC counterparts. You'll have to specifically build a quiet PC to get on that is quiet. The off the shell stock Dell is loud as hell under load.
On the OS front things are certainly going to depend on who you are as a user. I'm no longer a PC gamer. Over 90% of my gaming is now done on consoles and portable devices. That was the hardest switching for me. But now that I've moved over, its not a big deal. There are games that come out later for OSX and sometimes I'll pick them up just to have something to play on the road. But now that I have my PSP, even that is unlikely. With the next generation of consoles, its unlikely that I will care about PC gaming much at all. There are just so few things that aren't being pimped out for the consoles.
Stability-wise WindowsXP isn't unstable. Windows 2000 wasn't unstable. You COULD go for months without rebooting them. However configuration management was a complete pain in the ass. Chasing after drivers, dealing with mysterious glitches due to them, etc all make for a fairly unenjoyable experience in the long term. With OSX you 'may' have to install a driver for a piece of hardware but the vast majority of stuff that you want to use is handled through the standardized interfaces and work flawlessly without drivers.
Under the covers as a developer - Windows is just shit, complete and total hacked together shit. OS9 was nasty and the initial OSX 10.0.0 release was god-awful. However 10.3 and 10.4 are simply excellent. As a developer I have been far more productive under OSX than I ever was under WindowsXP - and many times the XP applications ran better than similar applications on my Powerbook. Much of this has to do with the fact that OSX picked up a very mature kernel and there is a huge audience of Unix heads out there cranking out stuff that is compatible with the OS already.
As for the lifestyle - not sure exactly what you mean, but I'm all about results. OSX allows me to achieve results faster in those areas that I'm interested in that I was every able to in Windows. A lot of that had to do with Windows crappy console application, DLL hell, registry and path system. I can only hope those things will improve in Longhorn. Everything I've seen about longhorn is about the recreation of the presentation layer and overlooks the problem that the plumbing underneath WindowsXP is just terrible. While much was rewritten for Longhorn, even more is coming right from the XP codebase.
Around the more technical circles, the number of people using Macs is actually increasing. There are more developers, admins, etc. who are picking up macs as opposed to fighting with Linux and in the long term, that is what will start to make the Mac a much better place to be
Now to answer the question. To be honest, I wouldn't necessarily say that a Mac always has the best technology in it hardware-wise. In fact many times its about 6-8 months behind the curve in what you can get on a Windows box. So from a hardware perspective I'd say 'kinda'. The hardware is cute, but I could care less about cute hardware. I'm a pure function over form person. If it happens to look good - that's a bonus, not a requirement for purchase. However Macs run considerably cooler and are much much much quieter than their PC counterparts. You'll have to specifically build a quiet PC to get on that is quiet. The off the shell stock Dell is loud as hell under load.
On the OS front things are certainly going to depend on who you are as a user. I'm no longer a PC gamer. Over 90% of my gaming is now done on consoles and portable devices. That was the hardest switching for me. But now that I've moved over, its not a big deal. There are games that come out later for OSX and sometimes I'll pick them up just to have something to play on the road. But now that I have my PSP, even that is unlikely. With the next generation of consoles, its unlikely that I will care about PC gaming much at all. There are just so few things that aren't being pimped out for the consoles.
Stability-wise WindowsXP isn't unstable. Windows 2000 wasn't unstable. You COULD go for months without rebooting them. However configuration management was a complete pain in the ass. Chasing after drivers, dealing with mysterious glitches due to them, etc all make for a fairly unenjoyable experience in the long term. With OSX you 'may' have to install a driver for a piece of hardware but the vast majority of stuff that you want to use is handled through the standardized interfaces and work flawlessly without drivers.
Under the covers as a developer - Windows is just shit, complete and total hacked together shit. OS9 was nasty and the initial OSX 10.0.0 release was god-awful. However 10.3 and 10.4 are simply excellent. As a developer I have been far more productive under OSX than I ever was under WindowsXP - and many times the XP applications ran better than similar applications on my Powerbook. Much of this has to do with the fact that OSX picked up a very mature kernel and there is a huge audience of Unix heads out there cranking out stuff that is compatible with the OS already.
As for the lifestyle - not sure exactly what you mean, but I'm all about results. OSX allows me to achieve results faster in those areas that I'm interested in that I was every able to in Windows. A lot of that had to do with Windows crappy console application, DLL hell, registry and path system. I can only hope those things will improve in Longhorn. Everything I've seen about longhorn is about the recreation of the presentation layer and overlooks the problem that the plumbing underneath WindowsXP is just terrible. While much was rewritten for Longhorn, even more is coming right from the XP codebase.
Around the more technical circles, the number of people using Macs is actually increasing. There are more developers, admins, etc. who are picking up macs as opposed to fighting with Linux and in the long term, that is what will start to make the Mac a much better place to be
FortNinety
Member
Thanks for the impressions Lhadatt. I'm a writer and everyone uses Word. My main concern is if others will see what I hand them. Mind you, I never use any fancy templates and the such, so I guess I'm golden.
Phoenix
Member
FortNinety said:
Office X is a slow bloated piece of crap. Office 2004 is actually pretty good. Now onto Pages.
Pages is a good too for layout. Its a very minimal interface much like Keynote. I'm somewhat mixed on it. While I use it a lot, I do find myself wishing that certain things operated like Office because some of the ways that Pages groups things is just inefficient. Its a great page layout engine, but its only an 'okay' word processor. There is much to be done in terms of grammar checking, templates for common documents, etc. I like it, but its no true replacement for Word 2004.
Pages can read Word documents with relative ease. Saving them out is however another story. There are many features which Pages supports that Word doesn't and vice versa. Because of this, its something 'unknown' what the end result is going to look like as Pages will trying to conform to the Office features through a variety of hacks/tables etc. The same goes for the laughable HTML export support. What you get from an HTML export is sooooooo far from what you started with that you kinda wish they just exported the whole thing with CSS2 absolute layout positioning. PDF export is, however, flawless.
FortNinety
Member
Phoenix said:
Hmmm... well the reason why I haven't upgraded to 2004 is due to the fact that MS still uses their own renderer, which is the number one reason why I hate Office X in the first place.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
I'll second the vote for Office 2004. It's a very nice upgrade over Office X.
Burger
Member
FortNinety said:
Why wouldn't you hand them a PDF ? It's a format that is 10 times more flexible than the word format will ever be.
You can use whatever typeface you want and the person at the other end will see the same thing (although being a writer you probably use a standard serif typeface). Your files will probably be smaller, and to an extent, the files are more secure.
FortNinety
Member
Burger said:
When I said hand over, I meant emailing to them, not literally handing them a sheet of something.
And yes, the Office uses its own rendering engine, or so I'm told, hence why the spacing of words and the such end up looking messed up, which annoys me to no end.
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