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[CyclopsRock]

Did he say brainwashing?
Can the media be a manipulative tool?
Are the Daily Mail and Murdoch's rags some of the most heavily consumed sources of news in the UK?
Are they unbiased sources of information when it comes to political information?
Are these sources of news heavily affiliated with the Tory party?

Well he suggested people were being convinced of things they'd otherwise not be in the face of the facts. He didn't use the word, but this is the same definition.

Yes, Yes, No, Yes. So? My argument wasn't predicated on the idea that the Mail and The Sun were unbiased bastions of fair reporting. It was predicated on the idea that even if one accepts that they're not, this belief effectively means one never needs to accept that their view isn't democratically popular, because the reason for the public's constant and repeated disinclination to vote for it is due to the newspapers that they (choose to) read. Never mind that there's never been a greater plurality of views available, never mind that newspaper circulation is going lower and lower, never mind that people have greater access to raw data and statistics and 1,000 different accessible voices analysing said data than ever before, never mind radio and TV and twitter and blogs and websites and and and; if your view (general 'your', not you-you) is "the reason we didn't win is because of Murdoch" then you'll never have to ask yourself "Why don't the people vote for us?" because your diagnosis of the problem is in the "the people" bit, not the "us" bit.

 

[It's Reyn Time!]

And likewise, your complete disregard for the influence of the media is naive to say the least. Every time the suggestion comes up that the public could be swayed by a funny picture of a man eating a sandwich you appear with your same old insinuation about conspiracy theories. When stories which are vitally important for the voting public to know get buried by the largest news outlets in this country, yeah that's totally not going to influence voters.

Print is a dying medium, yeah. The Daily Mail, fucking repugnant as it is, is one of (if not the) most viewed news websites in the world despite that. The stories come from the same reporters, with the same agendas. Social media is crafted in such a way that your interests are based on confirmation bias; Facebook changes which political posts your friends make do and don't appear on your wall based on your reading history, you select people with similar interests and beliefs as you on Twitter and so on. They're excellent ways of sharing information, as long as that information is stuff you believed anyway.

 

[Chittagong]

Surely Labour doesn't need to change leaders every year? As a tory supporter, I hope Corbyn stays on the post until next election.

 

[CyclopsRock]

And likewise, your complete disregard for the influence of the media is naive to say the least. Every time the suggestion comes up that the public could be swayed by a funny picture of a man eating a sandwich you appear with your same old insinuation about conspiracy theories. When stories which are vitally important for the voting public to know get buried by the largest news outlets in this country, yeah that's totally not going to influence voters.

I've never denied their influence, at all. They're quite clearly influential.

 

[twobear]

If I take this to be your genuinely held belief - and obviously I do - then there is no evidence that could occur to convince you that the public simply don't desire the medicine that Jezza's prescribing, is there? Or that this desire comes from anything other than a brainwashing that you yourself have successfully sidestepped?

Of course there's evidence, how would there not be? My point is only that in a country where the media is controlled by people with a vested interest in maintaining a particular status quo, anybody who has an interest in undermining it has an uphill battle.

It's not like that consensus has always existed. Prior to the late 70s, the kinds of views that are now politically obvious were considered absurd. It was only through the work of very calculated pressure groups and the Tory party under Thatcher that the UK's political landscape was transfigured to a point where the Labour party can only win power by campaigning under a position that would have seemed centre-right fifty years ago.

Likewise, it was only through the action of the Labour party in the 1950s that the state which both sides of the political spectrum have now seen fit to dismantle were pushed into the public consciousness to begin with.

 

[twobear]

I mean the only alternative to the idea that the media influences political opinion is, what, the idea that the Tory opinion represents some kind of natural, neutral, idle view? I suppose it's not unthinkable that someone could hold that view, given that neoliberals sometimes try to yoke their opinions to some inaccurate ideas about natural selection and 'human nature', but that's all a bit daft.