Maybe, yes, and yes.
Which is lot better than could be said for the last 3 leaders.
Is it time for Jeremy Corbyn to be replaced?
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Maybe, yes, and yes.
Which is lot better than could be said for the last 3 leaders.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
So bring back grammar schools then. Biggest engine of social mobility we've ever had (barring wars).
Bony Manifesto
Member
Tony Blair? Say what you want about his policies, but he was eminently electable and knocked all the Tory leaders he faced out of the park.
He also ruined the reputation of the Labour party and did long term damage. Add to that he's responsible for one of the biggest foreign policy blunders of all time. If Blair hadn't basically been centrist right, Labour may have been doing better today.
Corbyn likely can't win an election. But who can in Labour right now? Chukka folded like a deckchair days after announcing he was running, the establishment clones were already handily beaten by Corbyn- and if anybody thought they had a legitimate chance at overthrowing Corbyn AND winning the election they would have done it by now.
Even if you replace Corbyn, how do you loosen the grip of the right wing media? How do you even fucking win against the Tories with their media friends, the money, and the fear tactics?
Even if you replace Corbyn, how do you loosen the grip of the right wing media? How do you even fucking win against the Tories with their media friends, the money, and the fear tactics?
JesseEwiak
Member
I think the Tories would agree with you that he's the best thing for them in years, especially after they win the biggest majority in decades in 2020.
In order to loosen the grip, you have to get into power in the 1st place. And just because somebody can't win a primary doesn't mean they're not the best candidate in a general. The best candidate running for the GOP right now without a doubt is John Kasich, but he can never win a Republican primary.
Sorry to say this but Tory lite is the only way Labour have of getting back into power anytime soon. Fact is, even though most hate Blair, he and his politics account for the only Labour general election victories in over 40 years.
Since then, Thatcher along with the dumb unions help, shifted this countries politics to the right. That is pretty much cemented in place now.
No far left, stuck in the 70's socialist is going to change that. It will take a near collapse of the economy while the tories are in charge to stand any chance of this countries centre shifting. I am talking Greece style austerity not the 'our government still spends more on us than what they make out of us' austerity that we have
Yup to win in the UK you need to be a thatcherite. labour win because Blair was one
ShemhazaiX
Member
He's more electable than Milliband and I don't see the Tory's looking particularly good come next election considering shit like the junior doctors striking and the fact that Cameron won't be the party leader.
PJV3
Member
The Tories will be fine, they are undermining Labour's financial ability to fight the next election.
B-B-Bomba!
Member
The reason I support Jeremy as Labour leader is because I believe he represents a very unique potential to change the game, and for the incalculably better. Whereas those who wish he were gone cannot get over his low potential to win the game as it currently is.
His potential to actually change the political landscape may not be the most high-percentage on the face of things. However it runs very deep, reinstating the sense that people actually have stake in government and the possibility of a relationship beyond being the wrong end of a thorough shafting. There is a deep and human wisdom there that I believe has the potential to bring more voters in. Theres chance that this is uncharted territory, and the fact that experience predicts gloom for Corbyn and Labour, shouldnt be taken as read.
Where I see hope and faith sprouting amidst a heap of shit, my instinct is to nurture and shield that sprout, and to promote its wellbeing. Skepticism may seem to be the most realistic course; but I think its short sighted, and cant ever lead to the foundation of anything worthwhile.
The machine media have already turned Corbyn into an easily digestible caricature of ineffectual naivety. The question being, whether his faithful, principled optimism can continue to unsettle that portrait to the point it starts working for him rather than against. Or vice versa.
His potential to actually change the political landscape may not be the most high-percentage on the face of things. However it runs very deep, reinstating the sense that people actually have stake in government and the possibility of a relationship beyond being the wrong end of a thorough shafting. There is a deep and human wisdom there that I believe has the potential to bring more voters in. Theres chance that this is uncharted territory, and the fact that experience predicts gloom for Corbyn and Labour, shouldnt be taken as read.
Where I see hope and faith sprouting amidst a heap of shit, my instinct is to nurture and shield that sprout, and to promote its wellbeing. Skepticism may seem to be the most realistic course; but I think its short sighted, and cant ever lead to the foundation of anything worthwhile.
The machine media have already turned Corbyn into an easily digestible caricature of ineffectual naivety. The question being, whether his faithful, principled optimism can continue to unsettle that portrait to the point it starts working for him rather than against. Or vice versa.
Charles Brandon
Member
Pfft. Dream on.
WayneMorse
Banned
The junior doctors strike didn't effect Dave and Gideon at all. Putting a dolt like Hunt in that position to be the lightening rod for criticism was a genius move on their parts.
I think Corbyn is a perfectly fine opposition leader in an almost impossibly hostile and desolate landscape.
Unfortunately he's probably unelectable but not for any reasons within his immediate control. He's a damn site more electable than anybody else in the party right now but it doesn't really matter.
The Tories, with their friends in influential places and scorched earth, divide and conquer tactics, are winning. I live in Sheffield, a historically staunch Labour City and a Northern former industrial heartland, and I genuinely believe the current public mood sides strongly with The Tories. Even catastrophic fuck ups seem to be rolling off them like water off a ducks back.
Unfortunately he's probably unelectable but not for any reasons within his immediate control. He's a damn site more electable than anybody else in the party right now but it doesn't really matter.
The Tories, with their friends in influential places and scorched earth, divide and conquer tactics, are winning. I live in Sheffield, a historically staunch Labour City and a Northern former industrial heartland, and I genuinely believe the current public mood sides strongly with The Tories. Even catastrophic fuck ups seem to be rolling off them like water off a ducks back.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
It's pretty fucking depressing how the political climate skews so far to the right in this country in my opinion. And I thought it was bad in the US. I don't see the balance shifting towards a more centrist position anytime soon.
Yeah, honestly. Out of all the politics I follow, the UK has been one of the most depressing. The US is also pretty sad for a developed first-world country, but they are at least entertaining. The UK just makes me feel bad when I dwell on it for too long. Here in Canada at least, our Conservative party has been overthrown and is in splinters now, but it seems like the only way your leftist party can win is by imitating the right.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
2020 is 4 years away. A lot can happen in 4 years. He won't even be up against Cameron.
You mean like the impending global economic crash that quite a lot of people are predicting and saying will be worse than 07/08?
Also far left is such a nonsense term for what Corbyn's advocating, and only proves how much Thatcher pushed everything to the right. Ugh.
Lol, right?
Where do these delusions come from? He's poorly organised and worst of all has no interest in persuading people. Seriously why the fuck does he care about the Falklands? He doesn't even seem to disagree with UK current policy.
Man is more interested in his own words than his impact. The London Labour party is a clusterfuck.
This is why UK politics will truly never change. People want winners of popularity contests and professional politicians and not representatives of the public who are after real change and aren't afraid to challenge the status quo.
Jezbollah
Member
Welcome to politics.
I'm not an idiot, I know what politics are, I just know it's not what it should be.
The main issue regarding politics in the UK is the infuriating inability of the general public to recognise that the Tories do not have their interests at heart and their incessant need to believe whatever news shit rags are telling them and ignore the world around them.
Jezbollah
Member
It's not exclusive to the UK. See: Trump, Donald.
Mac@NeoGAF
Banned
The self delusion of the left wing echo chamber is in full force in this thread.
travisbickle
Member
Jeremy Corbyn was also the only leadership candidate who voted against the Conservative Welfare bill last year. I don't think you'd get any opposition to Tory Party policy from anyone else. I don't even agree with people who call New Labour "Tory Lite", they're the same and why so many voted for (or not willing to publicly vote against) Conservative policy less than 12 months ago.
Please enlighten us, as a current NHS worker I'd be delighted to know how silly we're all being
British Monsoon
Member
Sure, let's get rid of Corbyn and replace him with yet another centrist Blairite shite who's almost indistinguishable from the fucking Tories.
Mac@NeoGAF
Banned
There is no enlightening for Corbyn followers.
You'll carry on regardless and them blame the media, the establishment etc,etc, everyone but yourselves when you hand the Tories another 5yrs on a platter in 2020.
It's just an easy way to perpetuate the class warfare that is the fundamental foundation of the hard left.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Jeremy Corbyn was "unelectable" but still got chosen over all of the other candidates. So who would replace him?
Labour have no-one else capable of leading them. And as the Tories are a shoo-in for 2020, no senior/serious Labour candidates are willing to take the hit to their reputation by running now.
Labour have no-one else capable of leading them. And as the Tories are a shoo-in for 2020, no senior/serious Labour candidates are willing to take the hit to their reputation by running now.
Wow, you're smugly presumptuous.
I am not a "Corbyn follower", and as I said in my post I lay the blame on the voting public. The reason class warfare seems to be being perpetuated is because of gross inequality and the demonization of the poor and the vulnerable.
Charles Brandon
Member
Yeah I agree with this mostly but the party has to at least try. It's not going to happen while cunts like 'momentum' and various other SWP types are hijacking the party.
People in here need to understand that the UK has never elected a government as hard left as the one proposed by Corbyn and his comrades and that's because the majority of Labour voters, let alone the majority of the electorate, are not interested.
Look at this polling: http://www.ukpolitical.info/General_election_polls.htm
You mock Miliband (and with good reason) but since the Tories came to power they have never been as popular as they are right now and Labour have never been as unpopular. It doesn't matter how much you agree with Corbyn and his ideological dogma, it is never, ever, ever going to fly at the ballot box. Meanwhile, the Tories have got carte blanche to fuck over the NHS, education, legal aid, the disabled and anybody else who isn't rich and white. They don't have to worry about being relected because it's a given so they can do whatever the fuck they want and you are letting it happen.
Dismissing third way and left-of centre MPs as "Tory-lite" is not helpful.
You have to decide. Do you want to support a man who will never get elected and never achieve anything for anyone, while the Tories lay waste to the poor or do you want to find someone who may not be a fucking marxist but may have a chance to move policy to the left, albeit not as far as you would like?
Cheesecakebobby
Banned
People like Corbyn act like they are fighting for the little guy, putting the working class on a pedestal and proclaiming themselves saviours. Maybe they would do better for such people than the current Tory government, but the fact remains that they are hopelessly out of touch with those they claim to represent. They ignore what those people are saying. For example, they dismiss concerns about immigration as ignorance and bigotry. None of which comes as any surprise coming from old school socialists - full of resentment towards those who failed in the last century to rise up and crush the capitalist class.
Corbyn is a factionalist who will continue to divide and weaken the Labour party. I won't vote Tory, but I won't vote Labour so long as it is steered by him and his ilk. It sadly remains true though that there is currently nobody sufficiently more electable that they could present a decent challenge in a general election.
Corbyn is a factionalist who will continue to divide and weaken the Labour party. I won't vote Tory, but I won't vote Labour so long as it is steered by him and his ilk. It sadly remains true though that there is currently nobody sufficiently more electable that they could present a decent challenge in a general election.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
I don't know if theres anyone credible to replace Corbyn? At least he's trying to make waves, rather than being tory-esque. I'd always vote labour regardless, since its better than the tories, but still.
Charles Brandon
Member
Put it another way, if the Tories of the future wanted to design and send back a robot to fuck the Labour party forever, that robot would look like Jeremy Corbyn.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I stand by the "socialism is dead in England" comments I made on GAF in the wake of the general election last year.
The last nine general elections have been won by the Tories or by a Labour party that appropriated Tory economic policies. With or without Corbyn leading them, this is guaranteed to become ten in a row, and then eleven, and then twelve. Labour's only chance of being elected is to become a centrist party and to hope that the Tories completely self destruct.
There's a reason we're not nominating Bernie in America you know. Shit's real over here. If we lose the next election Donald Trump gets the nuclear codes.
It's funny how if you invert right and left, recent American and UK political history is very similar starting with the Bush-Blair axis of stupid. Incumbent party (Republican/Labour) loses power after the financial crash, and in comes a younger leader from a different party. The new government is reelected resoundingly, defying prevailing narratives. Their opposition falls into disarray due to populist uprisings from the rank and file.
It's funny how if you invert right and left, recent American and UK political history is very similar starting with the Bush-Blair axis of stupid. Incumbent party (Republican/Labour) loses power after the financial crash, and in comes a younger leader from a different party. The new government is reelected resoundingly, defying prevailing narratives. Their opposition falls into disarray due to populist uprisings from the rank and file.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Can someone please tell me what is so "hard left" about Corbyn's platform?
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
It's also funny how you've just described Tony Blair's own rise to power in 1997. The Tories were incredibly unpopular from 1992-1997. Tony Blair was the youngest Prime Minister in modern times, and he ran a very successful "hope" and "change" campaign that delivered him the largest majority in British political history.
But I guess the average user here isn't old enough to remember pre-1997 UK. Or they weren't born yet.
he wants the system to be more fair?
it just goes to show how far right the "centre" is nowdays really.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
Putting a human being with emotions and morals and all that fun stuff opposite David Cameron and his ilk is an absolutely incredible thing to see. Keep Corbyn around and keep showing the Tories for the vile shitheaps they are.
CyclopsRock
Member
He's not a good politician. As in, views aside, he isn't good at the art of acquiring and wielding power, ie politics. This weekend, for example, he was at a CND rally in trafalgur square. I don't doubt he cares about it genuinely and there's no shame in that but...
A) His party voted at their last conference to retain Trident.
B) The party's policy is to remain in NATO which, due to its mutual defense nature and the US and France's nuclear arsenal, a de facto nuclear umbrella even if we disarmed.
C) Basically no one cares about it. Even in Scotland, where opposition to Trident is typically considered the highest in the UK, hardly anyone considers it an important issue WRT who they'll vote for.
I see the CND a bit like when Coors used to sponsor Chelsea and had their logo on the front of their shirt. Yeah, it *might* have made a few more Chelsea fans drink it (maybe?) But it also probably made far more QPR, Fulham, Spurs, Arsenal, West Ham, Crystal Palace, Wimbledon (rip) etc fans *not* want to be caught drinking it.
Again, this isn't a comment on his actual position, just how his presence at the rally was bad politics. Politics ain't a spectator sport you know!
A) His party voted at their last conference to retain Trident.
B) The party's policy is to remain in NATO which, due to its mutual defense nature and the US and France's nuclear arsenal, a de facto nuclear umbrella even if we disarmed.
C) Basically no one cares about it. Even in Scotland, where opposition to Trident is typically considered the highest in the UK, hardly anyone considers it an important issue WRT who they'll vote for.
I see the CND a bit like when Coors used to sponsor Chelsea and had their logo on the front of their shirt. Yeah, it *might* have made a few more Chelsea fans drink it (maybe?) But it also probably made far more QPR, Fulham, Spurs, Arsenal, West Ham, Crystal Palace, Wimbledon (rip) etc fans *not* want to be caught drinking it.
Again, this isn't a comment on his actual position, just how his presence at the rally was bad politics. Politics ain't a spectator sport you know!
QuicheFontaine
Member
Pffft lol. His suits are terrible!
Pretty much agree with this. If not Corbyn then who? Labour is riddled with mediocrity.
This is interesting, though. I'm from Sheffield as well, and from my perspective dislike/hatred of the Tories seems as alive as ever, even from people who think Corbyn is too far left or unelectable. Entirely likely we run in different circles though!
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