How long does one have to play smash 4, before they can decide whether they want to play melee. I know a lot of melee players who gave it more then a month, is that enough time. I think a lot of melee players tested the game and didn't know it was for them. Sure the meta could change s.t its enjoyable for them but their are ways of finding that out without playing it competitively for a year.
Is no one going to try and "replace" Smash Bros. Melee?
- Thread starter Fudgepuppy
- Start date
NormalFish
Banned
Why should people let go of a game they enjoy? Do I have to stop playing Age of Empires II because it's 16 years old now?
Doubt it. They'd branch off of Sm4sh like Sm4sh did from Brawl. I doubt they would create a brand new game or base the game off a Gamecube game from 13+ years ago.
Really, only adding momentum in the air and adding turbo mode should suffice if what Melee players have told me is true.
I feel like this complaint is BS at this point. I never once saw someone come into this thread and say this. Yet I've seen so very many people do the opposite in so many threads and attack melee fans for playing their game of choice.
The "hardcore melee fan" is a boogieman at this point and the ones that do exist certainly have PLENTY of competition on the other end of the fandom.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Then this goes back to my original post saying the only difference is size, which allows them to fraction the base of Smash. Perhaps your own frustrations with the Melee community is making you insist that it's different, because it doesn't seem like you have a point.
Enough people still play Melee in order for them to push their own preferences. Both Smash Wii U and Melee are netting the same amount of players at Evo for the tournament, despite having little crossover between the two games. People still play Super Turbo, but it's not anywhere comparable to the 2000 entrants at Evo for USF4. But are there sf2 heads that speak ill of USF4? Of course. Doesn't matter though. A 50 man invitational with literally 1000th of stream viewers isn't going to hurt the other game.
A couple of things.
Melee players largely play on 1.2 because that is the most circulated version out there in the U.S. and most Smash tournaments including Apex and EVO are based in the U.S.
PAL plays with 1.3 because that is the version widely available to them. It has nothing to do with a preference for a patch. Its a logistical issue a and remember, there are no more Melee disks being printed.
I also didn't see Melee pros for 'months' give Smash 4 a try and decided it wasn't worth it. Most of them gave it a quick glance and decided to focus on Melee again. Which is fine, since there is still a lot of eSports money still coming to Melee. M2K might be the only Melee god that actively plays both and he's facing a career crisis on which game to play. He will likely stay with Melee until the prizes are not enough to sustain him.
Most Smash 4 pros are former Brawl players and somewhat ironically, there has been a lot of ketchving about how Brawl is a superior game due to the number advanced techniques in Brawl that isn't in Smash 4.
Customs is a hot topic, and while I like them, I can see why people want to ban them due to how unbalanced some of the moves are.
As to the original point of Melee fans not moving on, they don't have to, but at some point, its clear that they are melee fans and not fans of the whole series. Which is fine, but that is different than what the reality is that current and future Smash games will be.
Melee players largely play on 1.2 because that is the most circulated version out there in the U.S. and most Smash tournaments including Apex and EVO are based in the U.S.
PAL plays with 1.3 because that is the version widely available to them. It has nothing to do with a preference for a patch. Its a logistical issue a and remember, there are no more Melee disks being printed.
I also didn't see Melee pros for 'months' give Smash 4 a try and decided it wasn't worth it. Most of them gave it a quick glance and decided to focus on Melee again. Which is fine, since there is still a lot of eSports money still coming to Melee. M2K might be the only Melee god that actively plays both and he's facing a career crisis on which game to play. He will likely stay with Melee until the prizes are not enough to sustain him.
Most Smash 4 pros are former Brawl players and somewhat ironically, there has been a lot of ketchving about how Brawl is a superior game due to the number advanced techniques in Brawl that isn't in Smash 4.
Customs is a hot topic, and while I like them, I can see why people want to ban them due to how unbalanced some of the moves are.
As to the original point of Melee fans not moving on, they don't have to, but at some point, its clear that they are melee fans and not fans of the whole series. Which is fine, but that is different than what the reality is that current and future Smash games will be.
dude people play Smash 4 at tournies all the time what are you talking about
its more popular than melee right now I'm pretty sure, or at least equal.
DrROBschiz
Member
I think melee still being around and preferred is cool
The high horse mentality and dismissal were what I loathed most but it looks like that was only a minority of the Melee fanbase
Who knows. I still love both games and would welcome a digital re release of Melee despite Smash 4 being my new jam
What exactly do you get from being this ignorant and dismissive in a discussion like this?
Solid Samus
Banned
that's bullshit. there's been just as much hatred toward the Melee stans from Brawl fans and casual players alike, since the day Brawl released, as there has been from Melee stans towards other players, if not moreso.
DrROBschiz
Member
I thought brawl was universally reviled as a competitive game
I know I couldnt stand it
Solid Samus
Banned
It was, but that didn't stop new fans, people who weren't familiar with competitive Melee, and casual players from attempting to dictate to other people what they should like without giving any consideration whatsoever to context, and calling them ignorant luddites for not moving onto the new hotness. I know for a fact that outside of Smashboards I've seen that attitude expressed a shitload more often, this evil mega elitist Melee fan shit is the biggest bogeyman.
DrROBschiz
Member
I get it
But the Brawl thing was a direct insult and slap in the face while Smash 4 is this beautiful compromise and olive branch for the future
Jelly Rajah
Banned
Is this for real? The Melee scene has been bubbling with activity as of late. EVO 2015 already has more than 1500 registered participants, making it the largest Melee tournament of all time.
If anything, I feel like it's just a vocal minority that lurk usual places like Twitch chats and YT/Reddit comments that are shitting on Brawl/4 or counter-shitting/pre-emptively shitting on "Melee fans". As someone who likes and plays every Smash game, it's just tiresome and fucking stupid that 14 years later, we still have this "war" going on and people can't just shut the hell up, accept that people like different things and play what they like. If it's not constant dismissals of what makes the games great to prove increasingly arbitrary points correct, it's the idea of conforming certain people to stereotypes ("Melee fans", casuals, tourney players; etc.) to further belittle their preferences.
Good God internet.
Way to be reductionist in an era full of crazy character diversity.
No, it wasn't. It was a exploit intentional left in, since they didn't thought, it would be a big deal.
Solid Samus
Banned
And Smash 4 has a respectable following, and enough depth over Brawl to ensure it holds a competitive future, unlike Brawl. Melee fans were open to Smash 4 upon release and there's still a healthy contingent of them playing Smash 4 as their secondary Smash or even their main Smash right now. There's the consensus that Smash 4 is a bit slower, a bit more defensive, and a bit less enabling of emergent open ended offensive options. Some people don't appreciate those changes. Some people do appreciate them, understandably. It doesn't draw quite the ire that Brawl did in any event, though, and I feel like Melee and Smash 4 can, are, and will continue to coexist rather peacefully.
DryEyeRelief
Member
If you're familiar with the Street Fighter community, you must know of a player named Arturo Sanchez/Sabin. He runs a tournament called 2 old 2 furious, which is focused around older capcom games from the 90s.
And I know running that series of events, he was completely in awe at how dedicated Melee players were to their game. He was humbled because he knows any game that he's attempting to keep alive there has zero chance of reaching the scale of Melee. It's really not something that should be berated.
Although I can understand how some people feel in this thread. The frustration people have with Melee in this thread I have with Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, where obsessive players of that game have been pretty insular, obnoxious, narrow-minded and shit on games that aren't their mahvel.
Shamrock7r
Member
It really isn't. Go watch the video of when zero won at apex and was being presented with His award
I watch the stream when it happened and I was legitimately upset with them. I was very happy for how the cast TOing the event handled it though. Act like children, get treated like children and escorted out of the building before your Melee.
I still don't like the idea of using people like this as examples of the greater Melee community being insular and abrasive, especially when I have experiences with people both online and off who came from that scene that actually made me want to embrace all of the different Smash scenes and participate more.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
That was because many of the players had trains and planes to catch in 8 hours with a blizzard raging outside. The event had been delayed because of the issues at the first hotel, and then slowed down when tournaments started later than expected. On top of this, some of the finals in Smash 4 were tedious as fuck because the players were playing safe as hell.
Yes, booing was awful, but imagine the stress and panic you might be feeling, knowing you've got a train, bus or flight to catch in the morning, not sure if you're gonna make it on time home to school or whatever, and then this new game comes in and seemingly stalls the entire event. Anyone would feel frustrated at that point.
This thread has devolved so much.
Asshats exist. They're everywhere. Asshats who love Melee will diss other Smash games because they're asshats.
Asshats who love Smash 4 will take offense simply from someone saying they like Melee more than the newest game in the Smash series.
Don't be an asshat.
And stop whining about asshats on a forum committed to being asshat free. The amount of vitriol being spewed toward the "Melee community" is a generalization and irrelevant to this thread and not relevant to 99% of the people in here who prefer Melee.
Tons of Melee fans would enjoy a new game. It's a fact. PM took off at the speed of light, and it was only slowed by Nintendo themselves. If a new game came out that was legitimate and scratched the itch of Melee players, it could do well. Brawl and Smash 4 do not scratch the itch of most Melee fans. If it does the trick for you, that's great, but it doesn't for a lot of other people. Also, Smash 4 isn't "deserving" of anyone's devotion. No game is. Whether or not a player enjoys a game is completely their own opinion.
The problem is that it would be an immense amount of work and require a huge budget and a lot of talent.
The problem is not that they don't want change, and playing the same game forever is not a solution to the subject of this thread.
Goddammit.
Asshats exist. They're everywhere. Asshats who love Melee will diss other Smash games because they're asshats.
Asshats who love Smash 4 will take offense simply from someone saying they like Melee more than the newest game in the Smash series.
Don't be an asshat.
And stop whining about asshats on a forum committed to being asshat free. The amount of vitriol being spewed toward the "Melee community" is a generalization and irrelevant to this thread and not relevant to 99% of the people in here who prefer Melee.
Tons of Melee fans would enjoy a new game. It's a fact. PM took off at the speed of light, and it was only slowed by Nintendo themselves. If a new game came out that was legitimate and scratched the itch of Melee players, it could do well. Brawl and Smash 4 do not scratch the itch of most Melee fans. If it does the trick for you, that's great, but it doesn't for a lot of other people. Also, Smash 4 isn't "deserving" of anyone's devotion. No game is. Whether or not a player enjoys a game is completely their own opinion.
The problem is that it would be an immense amount of work and require a huge budget and a lot of talent.
The problem is not that they don't want change, and playing the same game forever is not a solution to the subject of this thread.
Goddammit.
Shamrock7r
Member
You may have a good collection of people around you, but by and large a good chunk, and I'll even say a majority of Melee specific players have a very bad attitude when it comes to the other games. Many of them are ill informed. The melee community has hit a cult like status, and there are a lot of younger players joining the community because of that status. They are not that well informed of the other games, and it shows. This is where most of the vitrol is coming from, imo. I see it in that video, I see in in chats and message boards, and I see it in my local community.
Defend it all you want, it was disrespectful, amateurish, and just feeds to the negative stereotype that is starting to build about the Melee community.
*sigh*
Melee won't ever be replaced because it's melee. IF folks want a game like melee, they have it. Smash 4 is perfectly fine for competitive events. There is a much larger competitive community around it than folks wnat to give it credit for. Melee just has the reputation because Brawl was just not a viable competitive option. Smash 4 is, and is it's doing just fine in the competitive scene. Melee will be around for a bit, but I see it bowing out before Smash 4 bows out.
Melee won't ever be replaced because it's melee. IF folks want a game like melee, they have it. Smash 4 is perfectly fine for competitive events. There is a much larger competitive community around it than folks wnat to give it credit for. Melee just has the reputation because Brawl was just not a viable competitive option. Smash 4 is, and is it's doing just fine in the competitive scene. Melee will be around for a bit, but I see it bowing out before Smash 4 bows out.
Professor Beef
Banned
That's still no excuse to act like a cunt.
Slateboard
Neo Member
This reminds me of the Wrestling Fans who hate that every game that comes out isn't WWF No Mercy (and to a very minor extent, SVR 2006)
Or those who dislike Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 for not being Marvel Vs. Capcom 2.
Or people who hate fighting games that aren't Street Fighter/Street Fighter fans who hate games that aren't SSF2 Turbo.
It'll never happen, and people who clamor for remakes are just wasting their times because even if they did get a remake (SSF2T did), it won't be accurate enough and people will hate that it tried.
Or those who dislike Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 for not being Marvel Vs. Capcom 2.
Or people who hate fighting games that aren't Street Fighter/Street Fighter fans who hate games that aren't SSF2 Turbo.
It'll never happen, and people who clamor for remakes are just wasting their times because even if they did get a remake (SSF2T did), it won't be accurate enough and people will hate that it tried.
theprodigy
Member
right, you wanna pull examples of members of the community doing dumb shit, you start at the top with the top players, TOs, and others
you know, like this Brawl/Smash 4 TO, you might have heard of him before
Fudgepuppy
Banned
No, but people act as if it was entirely out of scorn for Sm4sh that people booed, because it wasn't. It could've been Quake-players booing CoD-players considering the circumstances.
Professor Beef
Banned
This one is because all the games that came after have gotten objectively worse with each iteration. The games (arguably) peaked with Day of Reckoning 1/2, and the Raw vs. Smackdown games started the decline.
Why are you trying to excuse people for acting like jackasses
Fudgepuppy
Banned
People weren't argumenting these people being assholes; they were argumenting the Melee-community hating Sm4sh with Apex as an example. That's generalization as it wasn't because of the game people were booing, but because of the delays and stalling.
Yes, it boiled my blood to see people booing, but don't make it into an issue about the Melee-community.
Slateboard
Neo Member
Having played all of these I think that the problems stem from it being a series that shouldn't operate as a yearly sports title.
That said, I think 2K14 was the peak of the last-gen iterations, while SVR 2006 was the same for the PS2 Era.
Also part of what makes them bad as far as gameplay goes is online play. They struggle with balancing good gameplay, realism, and trying to prevent people from exploiting it.
Back before online play was implemented, the games were buggy and exploitable, but it didn't matter much outside of your own circle of people you played with.
Still, unless we get some kind of alternative that can exist without the WWE Brand, I don't see much changing.
Shamrock7r
Member
Congrats, you found a guy saying something negative about Melee. You are completely missing my point. There is a very real, anti Brawl/Smash4 sentiment in a very large chunk of the Melee community.
theprodigy
Member
I don't know what your point is, but my point is that there is an anti-Melee sentiment among several notable Smash 4 players/TOs, this guy being the most flagrant example but hardly the only one.
Slateboard
Neo Member
But, that's the Melee community. Does that represent the Smash community as a whole, or are the words interchangeable?
Xryo is embarrassing and will hurt other TOs for advocating a different ruleset.
Shamrock7r
Member
I've laid out my point in a simple sentence. You can agree or disagree with it, but it is pretty clear.
Acerac
Banned
As somebody who used to be huge in to Melee, it always astounds me how much people seem to dislike the fact that the game continues to be popular. While I've moved on to Smash 4 myself Melee feels like the better game. Personally I'd always prefer to watch Melee over Sm4sh, it's just so much more fast paced.
I'll echo the sentiment that Melee players are happy to move on, it's just that nobody seems to know what we want. Freestyle combos, aggressive play, with an easy to pick up base that anyone can feel like they're awesome while playing.
I'll echo the sentiment that Melee players are happy to move on, it's just that nobody seems to know what we want. Freestyle combos, aggressive play, with an easy to pick up base that anyone can feel like they're awesome while playing.
I used to be mad at the smash 4 booing, but after rewatching top 8 on YouTube I understand it. If I played money and traveled a long distance to go to an event and was forcef to sit through that, I would be pissed too. They should have booed during the sets though and not the award ceremony. Even my smash4 exclusive friends were mad.
Nothing1016
Member
Wow some of you guys get heated when talking about smash. Lol Let's just be real and say there is haters on both sides for a variety of reasons. Top level pros such as Mang0, M2K, Armada, ZeRo, PPMD, and Hungrybox have less of an issue with this then the community. Fans are making a big deal out of this for no apparent reason other then to hate.
Edit: this is off topic but I really wanna see Mang0 enter some smash4 tourneys. He was pretty great at brawl and Project M. But that might just be because of his fundamentals.
Edit: this is off topic but I really wanna see Mang0 enter some smash4 tourneys. He was pretty great at brawl and Project M. But that might just be because of his fundamentals.
DrROBschiz
Member
You are probably right lol
It had happened more than once. So, yeah, melee players are pretty disrespectful against brawl/4.
I think people are seeing things the wrong way.
I don't see that much of a an annoyance over Melee being played today, just a misunderstanding as to why people still like it. It doesn't help that some Melee fans develop a persecution complex as a result of this. People telling them to move on are no better, if they did that there would be even more shit in the air since they couldn't play their favorite Smash game lol.
This leads to all these pointless back and forths for years and years within the community. If it hasn't gone away by now, I doubt it ever will as long as Smash games are still being made, which is a shame because fans of the franchise should be past this right now.
I don't see that much of a an annoyance over Melee being played today, just a misunderstanding as to why people still like it. It doesn't help that some Melee fans develop a persecution complex as a result of this. People telling them to move on are no better, if they did that there would be even more shit in the air since they couldn't play their favorite Smash game lol.
This leads to all these pointless back and forths for years and years within the community. If it hasn't gone away by now, I doubt it ever will as long as Smash games are still being made, which is a shame because fans of the franchise should be past this right now.
DrROBschiz
Member
Has a post on NeoGaf ever been more wrong or more Salt infused? My original post was just going to cover this abomination, but then I just couldn't resist. Sorry.....
1)The Community is already Split and their support has basically moved on since Splatoon is out, Im sure we will get bursts of support when DLC comes out, but nothing year around anyway. I also don't see why this is an issue. Melee fans should keep playing Melee and Smash 4 fans should keep playing Smash 4.
2) Where did you get this? Before Smash 4 came out he said Melee is the sharpest, so I doubt hed suddenly say its a failure, lol.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/12/09/super-smash-bros-creator-melee-the-sharpest
3.) Is this weird hopeful logic on your end? Why would it mean those things? Also, removing wavedashing would involve changing the physics engine and the way air dodging works, when do rereleases get that kind of overhaul? They also wouldnt want to alienate the people that would buy the rerelease and the console to play it. So yeah, this is just nonsense. Haha
These posts cant be emphasized enough:
I for one gave the game 3 full months where I didnt allow myself to play Melee or PM. After those 3 months I dropped the game to once or twice a month. Its a great game, just not enough depth.
Yeah this is really frustrating. If 3 months of non-stop Smash 4 isnt enough I dont know what is. I only needed to play PM for an hour to realize, Yup, I like this. Not to mention the amount of defending I did towards Smash 4 when it first came out telling myself, just adjust, its okay that BLANK is like BLANK, the game is good despite, X, Y and Z.
I still think its a great game, but to think Melee players blindly dont give it a chance is just silly. Every Melee player I know imported it on their 3DS or pirated it to play it on Japanese Day 1.
How is the second largest fighting game in the country dead? EVO has more Melee entrants than both Smash 4 and Marvel 3. However Smash 4 is catching up, good for them! (Both are over 1,500)
Exactly, god forbid people build their own scene.
1)The Community is already Split and their support has basically moved on since Splatoon is out, Im sure we will get bursts of support when DLC comes out, but nothing year around anyway. I also don't see why this is an issue. Melee fans should keep playing Melee and Smash 4 fans should keep playing Smash 4.
2) Where did you get this? Before Smash 4 came out he said Melee is the sharpest, so I doubt hed suddenly say its a failure, lol.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/12/09/super-smash-bros-creator-melee-the-sharpest
3.) Is this weird hopeful logic on your end? Why would it mean those things? Also, removing wavedashing would involve changing the physics engine and the way air dodging works, when do rereleases get that kind of overhaul? They also wouldnt want to alienate the people that would buy the rerelease and the console to play it. So yeah, this is just nonsense. Haha
These posts cant be emphasized enough:
I for one gave the game 3 full months where I didnt allow myself to play Melee or PM. After those 3 months I dropped the game to once or twice a month. Its a great game, just not enough depth.
Yeah this is really frustrating. If 3 months of non-stop Smash 4 isnt enough I dont know what is. I only needed to play PM for an hour to realize, Yup, I like this. Not to mention the amount of defending I did towards Smash 4 when it first came out telling myself, just adjust, its okay that BLANK is like BLANK, the game is good despite, X, Y and Z.
I still think its a great game, but to think Melee players blindly dont give it a chance is just silly. Every Melee player I know imported it on their 3DS or pirated it to play it on Japanese Day 1.
How is the second largest fighting game in the country dead? EVO has more Melee entrants than both Smash 4 and Marvel 3. However Smash 4 is catching up, good for them! (Both are over 1,500)
Exactly, god forbid people build their own scene.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
Bugs are intentionally left in games all the time.
direct_quote
Member
I could see bugs that were hard to replicate being left in Smash Melee because it was on a tight development cycle to make the NA Launch. Melee was the reason I bought a gamecube..
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yes, so that makes them intentional.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
I wasn't disagreeing. I was just pointing out that using it as an argument in and of itself is basically meaningless.