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[DistortionOfReality]

They already did? 'Brawl' and 'U'

But the community that play Melee to the extent that they do will never be satisfied, other than with a clone port with upressed graphics.

 

[danmaku]

I don't even like Smash and I find the hate the Melee community gets for... wanting to play their favorite game is insane. It's great to see an old game still being played, and even growing. It flies right in the face of an industry that always wants you to "move on" and buy the shiny new thing.

 

[Crub]

I don't see why Nintendo doesn't just release a Melee HD. Add some very slight balancing patches, maybe a few new competitively viable levels and some more options. That would probably be enough to make most of the scene move on, no? Would probably make good money and not undermine Smash 4 sales noticeably.

The only way I could see a Melee-like game without Nintendo IPs succeed competitively would be if someone somehow was able to translate it into a good f2p PC game and thus was able to reach a much wider audience. Which I don't see happening.

If Nintendo doesn't do it themselves the closest we will get is Project M.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

My friend has a dream that if Sakurai don't develop the next Smash, Namco would and Reggie would assure they went after the competitive American audience to branch out and become more "modern" and lucrative.

Nintendo don't seem to shy away from deeper games or only appeal to the casual market anymore, so Sakurai might be the only thing holding the franchise back.

 

[JediLink]

What if you mained Ganondorf in Melee?

Shitty mid tiers aren't welcome in the glorious kingdom of 20XX.

 

[Eidan]

I guess you have no memory of the SF25th anniversary tournament following the release of that game. Or at the time of Street Fighter x Tekken's release, SF4 at weeklies was dead, because the community was transitioning. Very similar to how Brawl was picked up for a year and then the community returned back to Melee after people realizing what kind of game it was.

I remember people trying out SFxT for a period of a month or so. I don't remember SFIV ever dying as you've characterized it.

KOF13 (2011) is the newest game in the franchise and it has no following in the country despite their being arcade boards available for it.

Well Melee fans have much in common with KOF fans in China. Rest easy.

You really think there aren't players who exist who prefer the previous iterations of a fighting game franchise?

It's weird hearing people say how the Melee community's dedication is a bad thing when coming from other communities, many cite that as the example to keep older games alive.

Of course there are players who prefer previous iterations. My point was that I felt the Melee community was unique in that its dedication to a previous title was actually a detriment to successive titles. You don't see Street Fighter II hurting Ultra Street Fighter IV competitively for example.

 

[Evilisk]

eh people, chasing the Smash/mascot fighter train and actually trying to replace Melee are different things.

Most attempts at the former have failed because a lot of attempts have been pretty half assed. Jump Ultimate Stars was a great take on it but it really should have seen an overseas release.

The latter, there are two major attempts that come to mind. First is the Air Dash Online game that fell through for reasons. That actually was getting feedback directly from the Melee community and was being designed by Melee players too IIRC. The other was Touhou Super Smash Battles, which got caught up in a lot of drama. Long story short, the devs were trying to chase that western indie success story money. This however clashed badly with Touhou as a property and its doujin nature. It's been renamed and retooled but I gotta be honest, I don't think it's gonna be a big hit because Platform/Mascot Fighters in general really need a noticeable property if only because of the standards set by Smash

Honestly nothing's really gonna change until either someone really tries an honest attempt at a Mascot Fighter or some indie dev that doesn't get dev problems and makes a game that appeases Melee fans

 

[DrROBschiz]

eh people, chasing the Smash/mascot fighter train and actually trying to replace Melee are different things.

Most attempts at the former have failed because a lot of attempts have been pretty half assed. Jump Ultimate Stars was a great take on it but it really should have seen an overseas release.

The latter, there are two major attempts that come to mind. First is the Air Dash Online game that fell through for reasons. That actually was getting feedback directly from the Melee community and was being designed by Melee players too IIRC. The other was Touhou Super Smash Battles, which got caught up in a lot of drama. Long story short, the devs were trying to chase that western indie success story money. This however clashed badly with Touhou as a property and its doujin nature. It's been renamed and retooled but I gotta be honest, I don't think it's gonna be a big hit because Platform/Mascot Fighters in general really need a noticeable property if only because of the standards set by Smash

Honestly nothing's really gonna change until either someone really tries an honest attempt at a Mascot Fighter or some indie dev that doesn't get dev problems and makes a game that appeases Melee fans

Seems to me like Melee fans should band together to get a melee remaster or rerelease

Only path that makes sense to me

 

[Satch]

as a very very very only-play-when-i-have-friends-gathered-once-in-a-blue-moon type of casual smash person, smash stans are crazy. not just the melee ones, but the rest of you too. this thread is a mess. yall deserve each other lol

 

[Doc Holliday]

Towerfall has replaced smash in my last few gatherings.

 

[Neoxon]

They already did? 'Brawl' and 'U'

But the community that play Melee to the extent that they do will never be satisfied, other than with a clone port with upressed graphics.

Except Brawl was hot garbage & Smash 4 is a different beast entirely.

 

[Opiate]

One of the interesting things about Nintendo's predicament (we all know what that predicament is, I'm sure) is that their big, popular games seem to inspire so few copycats.

Mario Kart, Smash, Mario; these games sell tens of millions of copies, and yet you don't see many (if any) major studios making kart racers or fighters like smash or 3d platformers.

By contrast, Microsoft gets a big hit in Halo, and every major publisher is tripping over themselves to put a shooter on the Xbox.

Please note that I'm not saying this is unfair or that there is a conspiracy against Nintendo, I'm just saying it's an interesting problem which doesn't have a simple/obvious explanation. Some games which sell 10M+ copies seem to engender a host of copycats, while other games can sell similar amounts, and have no obvious influence on the big publishers.

 

[Metal B]

Seems to me like Melee fans should band together to get a melee remaster or rerelease

Only path that makes sense to me

Except of three reasons:
1.) Nintendo already has a new Smash game out. Splitting the fan base, the profit and create more effort to support two games would be a bad idea.
2.) Sakruai sees Melee as a failure. He doesn't want a rerelease and Nintendo doesn't want to piss him off.
3.) A rerelease would mean rebalancing characters and fixing the bugs. No Wave-Dashing and other exploits, since they are all bugs. At the end we properly would get a game closer to Smash 4 anyway.

 

[Balb]

One of the interesting things about Nintendo's predicament (we all know what that predicament is, I'm sure) is that their big, popular games seem to inspire so few copycats.

Mario Kart, Smash, Mario; these games sell tens of millions of copies, and yet you don't see many (if any) major studios making kart racers or fighters like smash or 3d platformers.

By contrast, Microsoft gets a big hit in Halo, and every major publisher is tripping over themselves to put a shooter on the Xbox.

Please note that I'm not saying this is unfair or that there is a conspiracy against Nintendo, I'm just saying it's an interesting problem which doesn't have a simple/obvious explanation. Some games which sell 10M+ copies seem to engender a host of copycats, while other games can sell similar amounts, and have no obvious influence on the big publishers.

Well you have to keep in mind that those are older IP. There were several Mario Kart and SSB clones back when they were newer.

 

[Satch]

One of the interesting things about Nintendo's predicament (we all know what that predicament is, I'm sure) is that their big, popular games seem to inspire so few copycats.

Mario Kart, Smash, Mario; these games sell tens of millions of copies, and yet you don't see many (if any) major studios making kart racers or fighters like smash or 3d platformers.

By contrast, Microsoft gets a big hit in Halo, and every major publisher is tripping over themselves to put a shooter on the Xbox.

Please note that I'm not saying this is unfair or that there is a conspiracy against Nintendo, I'm just saying it's an interesting problem which doesn't have a simple/obvious explanation. Some games which sell 10M+ copies seem to engender a host of copycats, while other games can sell similar amounts, and have no obvious influence on the big publishers.

That's the power of Nintendo's roster though, right? How can you replicate something that owes such a huge amount of its success to having Pikachu fight Mario, Link, Samus, and Donkey Kong?

It just seems like a huge risk to develop a game in the similar vein of Smash because it won't take off without iconic properties like those on the front of the box. It will never be able to compete.

Also fighting games have a lot of balancing that goes into it in a way that shooters don't. We don't see many fighting games relatively as a general rule because of things like that, I would think.

 

[Opiate]

Well you have to keep in mind that those are older IP. There were several Mario Kart and SSB clones back when they were newer.

That's the power of Nintendo's roster though, right? How can you replicate something that owes such a huge amount of its success to having Pikachu fight Mario, Link, Samus, and Donkey Kong?

It just seems like a huge risk to develop a game in the similar vein of Smash because it won't take off without iconic properties like those on the front of the box. It will never be able to compete.

Also fighting games have a lot of balancing that goes into it in a way that shooters don't. We don't see many fighting games relatively as a general rule because of things like that, I would think.

Yes, I think these are contributing factors.

I don't think this phenomenon is Nintendo-specific, by the way. For instance, Minecraft has exploded in popularity, but seen very few clones (a few, but mostly by other indie studios). By contrast, League of Legends exploded in popularity, and every major publisher has been tripping over themselves to make their own MOBA.

 

[Evilisk]

Well you have to keep in mind that those are older IP. There were several Mario Kart and SSB clones back when they were newer.

Karting yes, but that never really happened with Smash at all. It's never really had a period where Smash clones were a popular thing to do. Releases in the genre have always been super spread out and a lot of them have usually just flown under the radar on release, with the exception of Playstation All Stars

 

[DrROBschiz]

Except of three reasons:
1.) Nintendo already has a new Smash game out. Splitting the fan base, the profit and create more effort to support two games would be a bad idea.
2.) Sakruai sees Melee as a failure. He doesn't want a rerelease and Nintendo doesn't want to piss him off.
3.) A rerelease would mean rebalancing characters and fixing the bugs. No Wave-Dashing and other exploits, since they are all bugs. At the end we properly would get a game closer to Smash 4 anyway.

Thats why a virtual console release seems the most plausible

We already have a few GCN games on WiiU but its hard to say whether they plan on continuing to expand on that

 

[Nairume]

One of the interesting things about Nintendo's predicament (we all know what that predicament is, I'm sure) is that their big, popular games seem to inspire so few copycats.

Mario Kart, Smash, Mario; these games sell tens of millions of copies, and yet you don't see many (if any) major studios making kart racers or fighters like smash or 3d platformers.

By contrast, Microsoft gets a big hit in Halo, and every major publisher is tripping over themselves to put a shooter on the Xbox.

Please note that I'm not saying this is unfair or that there is a conspiracy against Nintendo, I'm just saying it's an interesting problem which doesn't have a simple/obvious explanation. Some games which sell 10M+ copies seem to engender a host of copycats, while other games can sell similar amounts, and have no obvious influence on the big publishers.

This really isn't true, though.

Mario 3D platformers (specifically 64) and Mario Kart both had inspired plenty of copycats, much to the point that both Sega and Sony have both made multiple attempts at chasing Mario Kart's success, with Sega having three separate series of Mario Kart clones just based around sonic (and that's not including Sonic & Sega All Stars) and Sony having done kart racers for Crash, Jak, and LBP. Mario Kart clones have obviously tapered off, but we are clearly still seeing some companies sticking with them (with some, like Sonic & Sega All Stars, actually being successful). Mario 64 is still inspiring clones, albeit largely via licensed games.

Smash clones actually were a thing throughout the 2000's, and Sony obviously still wanted to follow it as of a couple years ago.

Even New Super Mario Bros inspired a resurgence in mainstream 2D platformers.

The Halo comparison actually works even more under this light, because it did inspire tons of copy cats, and those have now tapered off as devs are chasing other stuff now despite Halo still being a successful franchise.

 

[explodet]

By contrast, Microsoft gets a big hit in Halo, and every major publisher is tripping over themselves to put a shooter on the Xbox.

My opinion is developers essentially want to work on subjects that interest them, otherwise they don't bother to bring their A game and a half-assed game results.

This is why there's a zombie mode in multiple Call of Duty games, and it's also why most developers would consider developing a Splatoon clone a MASSIVE waste of their time.

 

[fredrancour]

Sakurai's notions of competitive players of melee doing harm to casual players always seemed very misguided to me. As much fun as it was to make obnoxious jokes about tourney players as a teen, their existence someplace in the world didn't actually affect our ability to have four-player matches with items and a huge variety of characters on a huge variety of stages while hanging out in somebody's living room.

Thats why a virtual console release seems the most plausible

We already have a few GCN games on WiiU but its hard to say whether they plan on continuing to expand on that

Unless I missed something major, there are literally zero gcn games on virtual console, with no intentions stated of adding them. Closest is the wind waker remaster. Also, they've stated multiple times that there's no plans to enable gc controller support in anything besides smash.

They've been adding wii games though. Maybe that's what you were thinking of?

 

[DrROBschiz]

Sakurai's notions of competitive players of melee doing harm to casual players always seemed very misguided to me. As much fun as it was to make obnoxious jokes about tourney players as a teen, their existence someplace in the world didn't actually affect our ability to have four-player matches with items and a huge variety of characters on a huge variety of stages while hanging out in somebody's living room.



Unless I missed something major, there are literally zero gcn games on virtual console, with no intentions stated of adding them. Closest is the wind waker remaster. Also, they've stated multiple times that there's no plans to enable gc controller support in anything besides smash.

They've been adding wii games though. Maybe that's what you were thinking of?

Shit you are right

Got confused. They have Wii games on there. Sorry

 

[Shamrock7r]

I don't even like Smash and I find the hate the Melee community gets for... wanting to play their favorite game is insane. It's great to see an old game still being played, and even growing. It flies right in the face of an industry that always wants you to "move on" and buy the shiny new thing.

By and large the melee community gets no hate for wanting to play Melee. If you actually follow the Smash community as a whole, the reason the melee community gets flack is because a large chunk of them actively hate and discourage others for playing Brawl and Smash4. A little cult like.

 

[Grit]

Playstation All-Stars kind of tried...it was an OK effort?

If you cant

• FOX ONLY
• NO ITEMS
• FINAL DESTINATION

it's not really melee though.. is it?

 

[fredrancour]

Shit you are right

Got confused. They have Wii games on there. Sorry

it's all good. it WOULD make lots of sense to put some gcn games up on there, in my opinion (made from admittedly-limited technical knowledge).

 

[Mit-]

Mario 64 is still inspiring clones, albeit largely via licensed games.

I wish this was true but I don't consider floaty basic platformers with a lot of enemies or guns or what have you as Mario 64 clones. There are pretty much no 3D platformers with the same focus on actual platforming and character control as the 3D Mario games.

Which sucks, because that series is seemingly becoming easier these days for the same reason Smash has been. I wish some indie devs would really make a 3D Mario clone. Easier than a Melee clone. I want both though.

 

[Opiate]

This really isn't true, though.

Mario 3D platformers (specifically 64) and Mario Kart both had inspired plenty of copycats, much to the point that both Sega and Sony have both made multiple attempts at chasing Mario Kart's success, with Sega having three separate series of Mario Kart clones just based around sonic (and that's not including Sonic & Sega All Stars) and Sony having done kart racers for Crash, Jak, and LBP. Mario Kart clones have obviously tapered off, but we are clearly still seeing some companies sticking with them (with some, like Sonic & Sega All Stars, actually being successful). Mario 64 is still inspiring clones, albeit largely via licensed games.

Smash clones actually were a thing throughout the 2000's, and Sony obviously still wanted to follow it as of a couple years ago.

Even New Super Mario Bros inspired a resurgence in mainstream 2D platformers.

The Halo comparison actually works even more under this light, because it did inspire tons of copy cats, and those have now tapered off as devs are chasing other stuff now despite Halo still being a successful franchise.

I definitely think this is a part of it; I think that MOBA games will start slowing down soon, too, for instance, as the winners consolidate their power.

 

[Krabboss]

Just keep playing Melee. Nobody is going to invest that amount of money to try and cater to an audience which is impossible to please. Especially when the scene for Melee is tiny anyway.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Complaints about PM 3.5 (the most recent version) center around the fact that it's too much like Melee, if anything (but jankier and a little over-designed, plus less aesthetically pleasing because of the Brawl source, but regardless). So no, we shouldn't be discounting PM as the Melee sequel many have been wanting. Devs absolutely have not moved in some crazy new direction.

3.) A rerelease would mean rebalancing characters and fixing the bugs. No Wave-Dashing and other exploits, since they are all bugs. At the end we properly would get a game closer to Smash 4 anyway.

People need to stop repeating this. There's no point in rereleasing Melee if you're going to rebalance it, and Wave-Dashing and other movement options like it are 100% NOT bugs and couldn't be "fixed" without completely changing the physics or air dodging mechanics. Likely no one would switch over if that's the plan (though, again, those couple changes are not the only difference between Melee and 4)

Like I said before, if we want balance options, add a switch to flip between the 4 different original game balances that were already released. Some other additional options wouldn't hurt, but they're not necessary, and they have to be OPTIONS. Changing anything outright is just a terrible decision.

 

[Messofanego]

I wish this was true but I don't consider floaty basic platformers with a lot of enemies or guns or what have you as Mario 64 clones. There are pretty much no 3D platformers with the same focus on actual platforming and character control as the 3D Mario games.

Which sucks, because that series is seemingly becoming easier these days for the same reason Smash has been. I wish some indie devs would really make a 3D Mario clone. Easier than a Melee clone. I want both though.

People who want clones that are original games not from the same developers will never be satisfied or buy the clones because they'll unlikely have the exact same feel or various other things that requires a big budget. See responses to upcoming 3D platformer threads. Maybe it'll be A Hat In Time for Mario 64 clones and Yooka Laylee for Banjo and Kazooie clones, but gamers can be a nitpicky bunch rather than giving something slightly different a chance (Grow Home) with their money.

 

[entremet]

I prefer Smash 4.

Nintendo should release a Remaster of Melee for posterity sake.

They love to rereleasing stuff anyway.

Those GC won't last forever.

 

[Spinluck]

I prefer Smash 4.

Nintendo should release a Remaster of Melee for posterity sake.

They love to rereleasing stuff anyway.

Those GC won't last forever.

The Wii is BC and they released new GC controllers last year! That shit ain't going anywhere lol!

 

[Nairume]

I wish this was true but I don't consider floaty basic platformers with a lot of enemies or guns or what have you as Mario 64 clones. There are pretty much no 3D platformers with the same focus on actual platforming and character control as the 3D Mario games.

Which sucks, because that series is seemingly becoming easier these days for the same reason Smash has been. I wish some indie devs would really make a 3D Mario clone. Easier than a Melee clone. I want both though.

I think part of the problem is that while we are still seeing games. Like, they are very obviously still riffing on SM64's large open obstacle courses littered with puzzles that reward you with collectables (even when the 3D Mario games themselves have largely abandoned that!), but, yeah, they aren't taking the more subtle things about SM64 that made it work (ie: how Mario actually functions and building obstacles around that).

That's been a problem with the 3D platformer genre ever since you started getting clones of SM64. Going back and replaying both Banjo Kazooie and DK64 (not the best example, of course ), even Rare had a problem actually figuring out everything about what made SM64 work.

 

[jackal27]

Yeah, it's called Project M?

I love Project M. It's still being actively developed and it makes a great compliment to Smash 4 (which I also love). The bottom line is that Melee players just don't want to move on though.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Yeah, it's called Project M?

I love Project M. It's still being actively developed and it makes a great compliment to Smash 4 (which I also love). The bottom line is that Melee players just don't want to move on though.

Which is fine whatever

Im not a fan of them shouting down and delegitimizing Smash 4 though. Shit pisses me off. That game should have the full support of the entire community and deserves it

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

The Melee and Smash communities in general are not difficult to please. It's just that no one cares to understand what they want.

Lots of Melee fans were ready to dive into Smash 4, but the mechanics weren't where they wanted them to be.

 

[Sami+]

I don't play Melee - to be honest, I'm kind of intimidated by the speed of the game and the extremely involved mechanics. Last time I tried playing a friendly match I couldn't get a single hit in and was effortlessly boooodied by a dude at a party. He told me to play him when I wasn't drunk for a fairer match. ... I was sober, lol.

That said, I'm learning a lot more about the competitive scene and I'm jumping in myself with Smash 4 now. A really good friend of mine played Melee at EVO last year and I've gone to local tourneys with him just to watch people play.

I used to be of the opinion that Melee players were just purists, refusing to move on because they were already good at Melee and didn't want to learn something new. Thing is though, I've learned that this really isn't true. Melee is just a different kind of game from its successors - the skill ceiling is much, much higher and that really can't be overstated. Brawl's mechanics are genuinely perplexing at times (tripping, infinite jab-locks, etc) and because of the physics of the game, a lot of competitive strategies and playstyles just don't work anymore. No big deal - just learn the new strategies, right? Well... no, because there actually aren't enough new strategies to replace what was lost. It's not that kind of game, and was purposely designed to not be competitive. It's not like Street Fighter 3 to Street Fighter 4; more like Street Fighter 2 to Street Fighter - if the latter game had more content but the same mechanics and no way to combo.

Smash 4 is pretty solid competitively - it's a lot more balanced than Melee and there are more competitively viable stages to play on. I don't know how close to Melee you'd be able to get though by speeding up the game and increasing gravity as one person suggested. I think it's a fair successor, though I do sympathize with Melee fans as it really isn't a full on replacement and still doesn't quite reach the competitive heights that Melee does.

Maybe sometime down the line I'll try to learn Melee. I will say that Smash 4 has it beat in approachability by a huuuuuuuge margin.

 

[Ithil]

Why do the people clinging to Melee need a replacement? They can continue playing Melee forever.

 

[DrROBschiz]

The Melee and Smash communities in general are not difficult to please. It's just that no one cares to understand what they want.

Lots of Melee fans were ready to dive into Smash 4, but the mechanics weren't where they wanted them to be.

I think it struck an excellent balance along with the promise of actual expansion and support

Every smash fan should be on board and Smash 4 is way deeper and rewarding than the community has given it credit for

Smash 4 is pretty solid competitively - it's a lot more balanced than Melee and there are more competitively viable stages to play on. I don't know how close to Melee you'd be able to get though by speeding up the game and increasing gravity as one person suggested. I think it's a fair successor, though I do sympathize with Melee fans as it really isn't a full on replacement and still doesn't quite reach the competitive heights that Melee does.

Maybe sometime down the line I'll try to learn Melee. I will say that Smash 4 has it beat in approachability by a huuuuuuuge margin.

I would argue players have barely scratched the surface of what can be done in Smash 4. I have been consistently surprised by the variety each character is capable of both Offensively and Defensively and new shit is being showcased all over the place

The dismissal is a damn shame

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

I think it struck an excellent balance along with the promise of actual expansion and support

Every smash fan should be on board and Smash 4 is way deeper and rewarding than the community has given it credit for

Just because it is the new game doesn't mean it "deserves" the community to ALL transfer to it. That's actually been an issue many people have with competitive gaming, how people automatically flock to the new title in a series even though the previous one is more competitively viable and interesting on many levels.

Smash 4 is fun and all, but there are a lot of changes I'd like to see before everyone stops playing the previous games.

 

[collige]

Complaints about PM 3.5 (the most recent version) center around the fact that it's too much like Melee, if anything (but jankier and a little over-designed, plus less aesthetically pleasing because of the Brawl source, but regardless). So no, we shouldn't be discounting PM as the Melee sequel many have been wanting. Devs absolutely have not moved in some crazy new direction.



People need to stop repeating this. There's no point in rereleasing Melee if you're going to rebalance it, and Wave-Dashing and other movement options like it are 100% NOT bugs and couldn't be "fixed" without completely changing the physics or air dodging mechanics. Likely no one would switch over if that's the plan (though, again, those couple changes are not the only difference between Melee and 4)

Like I said before, if we want balance options, add a switch to flip between the 4 different original game balances that were already released. Some other additional options wouldn't hurt, but they're not necessary, and they have to be OPTIONS. Changing anything outright is just a terrible decision.

I doubt many people would complain if they were to, say, buff Pichu or Kirby or nerf Shiek's ridiculous chain grabs against DK/Bowser (I think this was in PAL, but I'm not sure). I would imagine buffs to pretty much anyone outside the top 8 would be pretty welcome. It'd stave off 20XX for a while, at least.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Just because it is the new game doesn't mean it "deserves" the community to ALL transfer to it. That's actually been an issue many people have with competitive gaming, how people automatically flock to the new title in a series even though the prvious one is more competitively viable and interesting on many levels.

Smash 4 is fun and all, but there are a lot of changes I'd like to see before everyone stops playing the previous games.

Its just a competitively viable in my experience. And I played thousands of hours of competitive melee.

The more time I put in to smash 4 the more meat to the bone I find. I have basically reworked my strategies with my main several times over since it came out.

You guys put down the controller early and wont admit it

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Its just a competitively viable in my experience. And I played thousands of hours of competitive melee.

The more time I put in to smash 4 the more meat to the bone I find. I have basically reworked my strategies with my main several times over since it came out.

You guys put down the controller early and wont admit it

And this is why your opinion is toxic, because you assume we don't play Smash 4. I play that game almost daily for hours on end lol.. I'm actively engaged with Smash 4, friend.

That being said, Smash 4's mechanics need a lot of improving imho.

 

[DrROBschiz]

And this is why your opinion is toxic, because you assume we don't play Smash 4. I play that game almost daily for hours on end lol..

Its not toxic. Its valid

ANd why do you play hours on end if Melee is superior?


Also I should clarify. I recognize melee for what it is and support those who still love it. I still love it.

I just express my frustration with the Smash 4 comparisons. I dont think they are fair and accurate at all outside of saying they are mechanically different which is the only factual argument

Competitive viability is the matter of opinion

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

lol I'm shitting on it? Take your bias elsewhere.

 

[Sami+]

I think it struck an excellent balance along with the promise of actual expansion and support

Every smash fan should be on board and Smash 4 is way deeper and rewarding than the community has given it credit for



I would argue players have barely scratched the surface of what can be done in Smash 4. I have been consistently surprised by the variety each character is capable of both Offensively and Defensively and new shit is being showcased all over the place

The dismissal is a damn shame

That's a fair assessment. I'm really not an expert nor am I claiming to be lol. Smash 4 is the first fighter I'm genuinely eager to play competitively. Partly because it's very approachable, partly because my favorite character (Sonic) is in the game and is actually really good (this is extremely shallow of me but if I'm being honest, Sonic's absence in Melee is a pretty big reason why I'm not interested in it right now), and partly because it is a really well built competitive game. Watching 6wx play Sonic at tournaments is super interesting to me because it gives me something to strive for - so don't get me wrong, I'm really not trying to downplay Smash 4. All I'm trying to say is that it's a different kind of game and that from what I've seen so far it doesn't seem like it'll be quite as crazy as Melee.

If I remember correctly though a lot of super important Melee tech wasn't discovered until a few years after release though, so who knows.

 

[DrROBschiz]

lol I'm shitting on it? Take your bias elsewhere.

Updated my post

Was clearly taking the discussion in the wrong direction. Sorry bro

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

No problem, Smash 4 is a fun game that certainly has a lot of potential, but the defensive game is too strong for my liking. For example, I also play a lot of Smash 64 on PJ64 netplay and one thing I love about it is the hitstun and shield pressure you can apply. The game is also very defensive because if you get hit, you run the risk of being in a long combo string or having your shield broken because the other player has you in shield stun. I think it has the best balance of any Smash game outside of PM because it's not too aggressive and crazy like Melee, but it's not so defensive-safe like Smash 4.

In Smash 4, running away and shielding is far too effective, which leads to stale gameplay imho.

 

[Kyzer]

People need to get over melee. Its like that one friend who is only good at one game so its all they ever wanna play...

Seriously. It was a fluke the thing was balanced by one guy solo


The level of gameplay melee Stans want from a game will never be released because it wasn't even meant to be that good in melee. You think sakurai was shffl wavedashing his foes? Seriously guys its dead.

It was fun

10 years ago

You got good at one game...let it go

 

[Sami+]

People need to get over melee. Its like that one friend who is only good at one game so its all they ever wanna play...

Seriously. It was a fluke the thing was balanced by one guy solo


The level of gameplay melee Stans want from a game will never be released because it wasn't even meant to be that good in melee. You think sakurai was shffl wavedashing his foes? Seriously guys its dead.

It was fun

10 years ago

You got good at one game...let it go

Sakurai confirmed years ago that wavedashing was intentional.