Is no one going to try and "replace" Smash Bros. Melee?
- Thread starter Fudgepuppy
- Start date
It's because only true melee fans can get melee, Smash 4 is not like melee with its defensive play, ledge, rage, shield growth, roll speed, grab releases, and overall laggier attacks. I could live without Nintendo characters on a roster. Every fighting game has to start somewhere. If the game prided itself on mechanical depth then perhaps it would stand a fighting chance.
Also I swear some GAF members haven't played melee since brawl came out, or at least never played it deeper than a 4 player free for all.
Also I swear some GAF members haven't played melee since brawl came out, or at least never played it deeper than a 4 player free for all.
Don't think they could switch around the physics a lot to make it more like Melee for a mode, but a turbo mode would be fun.
Linkstrikesback
Member
I can't imagine any way that the number of people who
A) Want another Melee game but woudl actually settle for something that isn't melee (or project M)
and
B) Aren't happy with Smash 3/4 as that replacement
is anything other than a small number.
So no, no-one is going to try and replace it.
A) Want another Melee game but woudl actually settle for something that isn't melee (or project M)
and
B) Aren't happy with Smash 3/4 as that replacement
is anything other than a small number.
So no, no-one is going to try and replace it.
I don't even want to pretend I'm speaking for the Melee community when I say this, I feel like the problem here is that the game that Sakurai is trying to make isn't the game the Melee community wants.
As much as I love Smash 4, a lot of my friends will continue to play only Melee because they feel that Sakurai's vision for Smash has shifted far, far away from the Melee days, and to be honest? They're correct. In some ways, he's actively trying to avoid making the new games too much like Melee.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Making a game for Melee fans is like making a game for people who say the original 151 Pokemon are all that matter, neither group is even looking for a new game and they'll never be satisfied with the product because it's not exactly the same as the one they like.
The only thing that could make Melee players move on is an HD port with online matchmaking.
The only thing that could make Melee players move on is an HD port with online matchmaking.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
I think we're in agreement of "if you want to go play Melee... just go play Melee."
What I don't understand are the requests for "Super Smash Bros Melee 2".
Yeah basically this. My cousin started a Smash Bros local get together and told me he had guys messaging him about how they only play Melee and it has to be on a CRT.
I've had a fighting game in my head that I tried to start a couple years ago that would've played like Melee a bit, but I have zero know how in doing anything but managing things. And the price of doing it right was going to cost an arm and a leg in fundraising-- not that I didn't think it'd hit those goals. If I ever had the right people I could make it happen.
There was Air Dash Online, which was going to be developed by Melee fans, but failed its kickstarter miserably.
There's also Brawlhalla, which is heavily Smash-inspired without trying to be exactly the same thing. Small but growing population in Beta - http://store.steampowered.com/app/291550/
There's also Brawlhalla, which is heavily Smash-inspired without trying to be exactly the same thing. Small but growing population in Beta - http://store.steampowered.com/app/291550/
tiggerkiddo
Member
I don't see why any company should listen to a small but very vocal minority. Besides, there is no real need to replace Melee. People who still enjoy it can go back and play it, which they do. Shoot I still enjoy Melee from time to time.
Bowflex
The fact that anyone supports Hillary boggles my mind... I have tested between 130-160 on IQ tests
On topic :
It would be nice, but the depth found in melee's mechanics would not be easy to achieve from a ground-up development standpoint.
Re: the derailment of the thread concerning how 'Melee players' can't move on and are blindly devoted to a 15~ year old game, because of familiarity comforts/nostalgia goggles/incestuous community insularity/whatever:
Melee is to Brawl/4 as Counter-strike 1.6 is to Source, etc. Only unlike CS 1.6, where many other shooters have a high skill ceiling, no fighting game in history has such microscopic manipulation of the control between player reaction and character response. As a huge fan of fighters for some 20 years, Melee is most complex, balanced, fun fighter - and in my opinion the very best - which is why I keep going back. Maybe one day there will be a spiritual successor worthy of transitioning the community, but as of now there ain't nothing even close.
It would be nice, but the depth found in melee's mechanics would not be easy to achieve from a ground-up development standpoint.
Re: the derailment of the thread concerning how 'Melee players' can't move on and are blindly devoted to a 15~ year old game, because of familiarity comforts/nostalgia goggles/incestuous community insularity/whatever:
Melee is to Brawl/4 as Counter-strike 1.6 is to Source, etc. Only unlike CS 1.6, where many other shooters have a high skill ceiling, no fighting game in history has such microscopic manipulation of the control between player reaction and character response. As a huge fan of fighters for some 20 years, Melee is most complex, balanced, fun fighter - and in my opinion the very best - which is why I keep going back. Maybe one day there will be a spiritual successor worthy of transitioning the community, but as of now there ain't nothing even close.
It's not really about playing old games.
It's about people wanting brand new games to act/play exactly like shit we played over a decade ago.
Where's the progress in that?
Look at how many Melee players loved PM though?
There is a strong request for Melee 2, it just has to be VERY VERY VERY similar to Melee lol
That wasn't what the comment I was replying to was saying at all.
And not be shut down by Nintendo for tournaments.
His question is still valid tho. Super Turbo doesn't play like IV nor the KoFs 98/2k2/XIII. Much like the Smash series, the overall game is similar and familiarity with other entries may give you an edge but each has it's own feel, combos and possibilities. The same is true to pretty much every other long standing franchise. And yet, the Smash community is the only one I've seen where this scenario of not accepting the new games is so notable, at least to me.
Also, having played Smash since 64, I do not think Smash's changes are that big compared to other franchises nor that 4 is so different/worse compared to Melee that it isn't worth it.
So is progress removing all mechanical depth and movement options from a game and replacing them with nothing? Because that is how it stands right now with Smash 4.
This is just not true. You have it backwards. Nobody is mad that the new smash games are not melee. They just accept it and keep playing the game they like.
They tried having a Kickstarter for it but it failed to reach the goal (it was like $300,000 iirc). The community simply wasn't interested in it. Then again, the timing for it was also pretty bad iirc and people weren't sure about funding it.
Not really trying to replace it, but TowerFall was created out of love of Smash and other couch games.
Oh, and there's also BaraBariBall.
Yes... Titanfall is the first game to scratch my Melee itch since Melee. It feels more like melee than Smash 4 and does so without even resembling a Super Smash Bros. game.
Melee is what it is because of how it feels to play it. Few games really feel that good.
Razzorn34
Member
That means Melee with a bunch of glitches and exploits people take advantage of that Nintendo never wanted. This is the reason why it'll never happen the way Melee fans would like. Also, what's the point of a new game is it's going to be just like Melee. Just keep playing Melee.
To this day, people are still playing SSF2T, and that was 20 years ago. While USF4 is the most popular thing at current tournaments, there are still plenty of Third Strike fans that will never switch up.
Just accept what you have and stick with it. There is nothing wrong with playing old games. Well, as long as there is a community.
FTFY, similar circumstances with the Halo fanbase.
I couldn't disagree with the bolded more. In fact, i'll make a point on that.
First off, 64 to Melee is night and day. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't played either. The DI and hitstun in 64 was insane. But that's neither here nor there so let's focus on the next jump.
Melee to Brawl was a massive change as well. In fact, the change from melee to Brawl was so great, that I would argue if Smash 4 came right after Melee, more Melee players would have jumped ship. Melee players felt punished by Brawl, like Nintendo was saying "everything you liked about Melee was a mistake" I think that's where a lot of the resistance lies.
So, to answer your question, I think part of it was just a backlash against brawl. They felt Brawl was more than just a misstep, but rather Nintendo telling them that what they liked was wrong and shoudln't have existed. And that competition was not really important.
I mean, how else can you explain tripping?
And I think that's exactly why a good chunk of Melee players were so dissatisfied with Brawl. Instead of Nintendo taking those glitches and making and endorsing them as part of the game, Nintendo basically said "Nope, you are playing it wrong" and removed all of them and made the game way less competitive in the process.
EDIT: Now, just so we are clear, Brawl was in no ways a failure. It sold approximately as much as 64 and melee combined and there is no way in hell Smash 4 will sell as much. And I LOVE smash 4. I play it every single day. I play it more than I ever played Melee.
I'm just trying to help you understand the backlash against Brawl.
The only replacement is a re-release or literally Melee 2.
And saying they need to move on is dumb. Games don't have expiration dates, it's not going to go stale. Saying they need to move onto a newer Smash just shows a lack of understanding (or not caring to understand) of the mechanics and engine that make it what it is.
And saying they need to move on is dumb. Games don't have expiration dates, it's not going to go stale. Saying they need to move onto a newer Smash just shows a lack of understanding (or not caring to understand) of the mechanics and engine that make it what it is.
So much this. Thank you for understanding!
DrROBschiz
Member
I will never understand the distaste for Smash 4.
And as many posters have already said there really isnt a suitable replacement. Fan can rest easy that it will always be a one of a kind special game.
I mean if the amazing work of the PM guys couldnt get it done I have no idea what will.
And as many posters have already said there really isnt a suitable replacement. Fan can rest easy that it will always be a one of a kind special game.
I mean if the amazing work of the PM guys couldnt get it done I have no idea what will.
The kickstarter failed back in 2013 so it looks like it's dead.
I would argue PM did pull it off, but by virtue of it being a mod PM is limited in what sort of support it can get.
Rivals of Aethers?
Though I don't really know what makes something Melee instead of 4
never heard of !
Looks VERY GOOD =D
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Definitely not in my opinion.
DrROBschiz
Member
You are talking about tournament crazed super hardcore melee crowd that had a documentary made about them
You wont find a more suitable representation of hardcore purist than that.
This goes beyond the characters.
They pretty much did, but It's a mod and therefore its limited by being a mod.
Lol beaten...
What I love about Melee and PM is the visceral action and speed of it all. Mixups happen so often. Hard reads and punishes happen so often. You are rewarded for smarts as well as tech skill. The skill ceiling is high. It literally gets my adrenaline going more than any game I've ever played.
Brawl and Smash 4 have never come near this. Nor is that what Sakurai is trying for.
I think someone could make a unique game that captures that feel even without being a clone of Melee. The problem is that it would take an absurd amount of effort. I wouldn't want anyone behind it other than a competent and passionate group of people. Think Lab Zero and Skullgirls. There is no group like that. Not even the PMBR.
I'm interested in that 2D fighter with the elemental creatures coming out btw. I still want to play that robot game too.
Also, someone needs to make a 3D platformer with anywhere near the character control of 3D Mario games. Another baffling absence.
Brawl and Smash 4 have never come near this. Nor is that what Sakurai is trying for.
I think someone could make a unique game that captures that feel even without being a clone of Melee. The problem is that it would take an absurd amount of effort. I wouldn't want anyone behind it other than a competent and passionate group of people. Think Lab Zero and Skullgirls. There is no group like that. Not even the PMBR.
I'm interested in that 2D fighter with the elemental creatures coming out btw. I still want to play that robot game too.
Also, someone needs to make a 3D platformer with anywhere near the character control of 3D Mario games. Another baffling absence.
This is more or less what I meant, please note that I just compared 4 to Melee. Sure, 64 -> Melee and Melee -> Brawl were big changes and it turned off some (I personally didn't like Melee's changes at first. I still played it everytime I had the chance tho). Because of Brawl the community is less open to the new games and Smash4 isn't to blame for that. It isn't just that Smash 4 isn't a bad/worse game, which, at least IMO, it isn't.
EDIT: The point I made was regarding the changes compared to other franchises. At least to me, if you play SF II Turbo next to Ultra IV, it'd feel much more different than playing 64 next to 4. It'd be interesting to try, now that I think about it
DrROBschiz
Member
What limits though?
Being officially sanctioned? Do melee players really care about that anymore?
Why do people keep saying this? what glitches and exploits are you talking about? Wavedashing is a result of the airdodge system. Its not a gltich. The sliding effect is intentional. L-canceling is a mechanic that was in 64. It was even toned done in Melee only getting rid of about half the lag it used to.
jasminlovesyoux
Banned
Lmao! Agreed. A couple minutes into it I skipped ahead just to see what the rest of the video was all about.
If Melee players had a great game that they could play on modern hardware and be officially sanctioned, they'd be a lot more inclined to play it compared to a game that still plays on old hardware, and can't be sanctioned officially at large, major tournaments, meaning less support from hugely popular players that have great influence on the scene and its exposure.
DrROBschiz
Member
I dont want to go I to the smash 4 debate but I disagree with your assessment entirly and ive been playing since the series started
Yes... official Nintnendo sponsored tournaments and whatnot
And also by virtue of being there is automatically more difficult to access/update/play than a standalone official game.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The majority of these players got into Smash as kids because it was a fun, simple, game where Pikachu could beat up Mario.
The characters bring the players in, the mechanics are why those players became pros and stick around. Pros got their start playing Melee with their buddies after school because the characters were familiar and the game was easy to pick up and play.
Nobody can deny a major part of Smash Bros is its characters. Well I guess they can, but they'd be wrong. A game has to have a draw to bring players in. Had Melee released with generic characters it would probably have gotten a cult following, but it wouldn't have survived for a decade and a half.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Well, most people cant really tell the difference, its the players that care about competitive play that this affects the most.
Most people see any o the last 3 smash games and think its all mostly the same, except for the smash ball.
Most people see any o the last 3 smash games and think its all mostly the same, except for the smash ball.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Is it dumb, though? Why can't Melee be played concurrently with another title that changes up the formula or move it forward?
Super Turbo is awesome. Nothing really plays like it. But, in the late 90s, it was being played concurrently with Third Strike and Zero 3. But Zero 3 and Third Strike have something that HUGELY differentiate them from Super Turbo: custom combos and parrying, respectively. The Capcom FGC moved to Zero 3 and Third Strike, but didn't altogether move on from Super Turbo.
The impression that I get (which may be 100% wrong) is that the competitive Smash community doesn't even want to try something else along with Melee, as Melee is seen as the end all, be all of Smash.
DrROBschiz
Member
Its just not gonna happen guys
You have to go back to being self made like before.
Its is sad that melee itself doesn't get a remaster or Virtual Console plug so it could still be officially supported in some capacity.
Dont think Nintendo cares much about such a small sect of people despite them being the grassroots players that laid the groundwork for Smash 4 even being as good as it is after brawl
Still its a simple thing that makes sense. Im with you guys on that.
But that game has now created a mass of addicts who can't get enough of its gameplay, and they have no place to get their fix other than a game they must play on decade old hardware and CRT televisions.
There is still plenty of opportunity here. We don't need a replacement off the bat, but PM showed there's room for more than just Melee in the hearts of its fans.
I agree, but I think people assume wavedashing to be an exploit, since it probably wasn't intended to be used as a spacing tool/movement option.
The only actual glitches I can think of are Mewtwo's side-B glitch and Ness's jacket shenanigans, which I doubt anybody would miss if they were gone.
Ya. There are a ton of silly glitches in melee, but none of them have any effect on competitive play.
https://youtu.be/pkE1qij0YDQ?t=2m36s