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[Camper Van Beethoven]

???

What's sexual orientation got to do with this? you implying gay men are gay cause they haven't had any good pussy?

I’m saying gay men aren’t attracted to women. And that’s no more wrong than a black man not being attracted to an Asian woman or a black woman not being attracted to a white man.

This always comes across like bullshit because there is a huge diversity to the "visual features" of black people.

It would be one thing if their preference is "I'm only attracted to white people" but for it to be "I'm attracted to everyone except black people" then I honestly can't see how it isn't societal.

I don’t have these preferences so I couldn’t comment. I’d be just fine with any of those women. But it’s dangerous, not to mention stupid, to attack people for what they find attractive.

 

[llien]

Is not wanting to date men sexist?

Great question (why don't others see it as such? It hits where least comfortable, at core of the issue).

Just my opinion (as usual)
1) "he's kinda attractive, but he's a man, ehw, not gonna date him" - sexist
2) "I don't find man attractive" - not sexist



But then we have these:

1) "I don't find red hair attractive"
2) "I don't find tall women attractive"
3) "I don't find short men attractive"
4) "I don't find pale white skin attractive"
5) "I don't find dark skin attractive"

Which, as outlined in #5:

Yeah, beauty standards are influenced by what we think of other races.

makes me think I need more time to think about it.

I believe we have already established that race is a social construct and I don't think anyone in this thread is saying race is biological.

 

[Chuckie]

This is fine and dandy but for years the “official” definition of the N word was just someone who was shiftless and lazy and racists who used the epithet pointed to said definition in defense of their egregious use of the word, sometimes saying things like, and I’m being anecdotal here, “anyone can be one not just black people!”. Even tho most rational people understand the word is used historically towards black people.

We now see this annotated in dictionaries decades later.

What? The 'N-word' is derived from the Latin 'Niger' which means black. It always has been a slur towards black people. It never was someone who is 'just lazy'.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

What? The 'N-word' is derived from the Latin 'Niger' which means black. It always has been a slur towards black people. It never was someone who is 'just lazy'.

And American dictionaries didn’t reflect that truth until pretty recently.

 

[TheCthultist]

https://fr.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/racisme

racisme ʁa.sism masculin

Conviction qu’on peut catégoriser les êtres humains en une série de races en se basant sur des critères physiques scientifiques, surtout quand cela s’accompagne d’une hiérarchisation, consciente ou inconsciente, entre ces races.

Or:
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/racisme/65932

"The belief that we can categorize/hierarchize humans into biological groups."

Go ahead.

Yes, and while you may not see it happen as much in France (I genuinely don't know as I haven't studied the impact of racism in France before... though after this thread I may end up looking into it for personal knowledge) in many other parts of the world that is still very much what happens with racism. People actively categorize entire groups of people into groups that are either inferior or superior. This may be based on any number of stupid factors from perceived biological, cultural, or intellectual superiority/inferiority... I'm not really sure what your post was supposed to prove.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I’m saying gay men aren’t attracted to women. And that’s no more wrong than a black man not being attracted to an Asian woman or a black woman not being attracted to a white man.

Gay men aren’t sexually attracted to women because that’s their sexual orientation, not because they refuse to date women.

The attempt at comparing lack of attraction due to sexual orientation and lack of interest due to thinking all members of a race share the same or similar physical characteristics was already done and it didn’t work then either.

 

[Chuckie]

And American dictionaries didn’t annotate that until pretty recently.

Well I guess that means your dictionairies are faulty af.

Doesn't change the fact that the defenition of racism (internationally) is still the same even though you (or maybe America) thinks that the only racism there is is institutionalised racism.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

Well I guess that means your dictionairies are faulty af.

Doesn't change the fact that the defenition of racism (internationally) is still the same even though you (or maybe America) thinks that the only racism there is is institutionalised racism.

I thought I’ve made it pretty clear a few times that I’m speaking about racism through an American lens, I apologize if I failed to do that.

 

[pureplayin2]

Yes as the people who choose not to give it a chance usually, in my experience, had a really ignorant and racist reason. I understand some can think it is no different than any other preference and some think it can be as long as they at least put effort into dating a different race, but then again having a bad experience with one date/relationship doesn't represent the entire race, so again it is racist because at that time they are stereotyping. But me, I'm white, and refuse to date my own race. Well, refuse might be too strong, I go out of my way to not date my same race even though just like any relationship, there will be good ones and bad ones. I much rather date someone of another race because I find the fact they bring an entire different world view and culture very attractive, oh the accents get me every time, but they have to be within my preference of not being a complete idiot, being in shape or at least not fat. More and more people need to live among each other so that these preconceived notions can be removed. I've never not met someone that didn't change their view of another race after actually getting to know them. If you don't put in the effort to get to know someone then you will never really know if you like a person or not.

 

[KarneeKarnay]

I'll date anything that moves.

 

[Alej]

Yes, and while you may not see it happen as much in France (I genuinely don't know as I haven't studied the impact of racism in France before... though after this thread I may end up looking into it for personal knowledge) in many other parts of the world that is still very much what happens with racism. People actively categorize entire groups of people into groups that are either inferior or superior. This may be based on any number of stupid factors from perceived biological, cultural, or intellectual superiority/inferiority... I'm not really sure what your post was supposed to prove.

Everytime someone categorize/hierarchize people into morphologic groups, and make a decision about this group as a whole, like "i won't date a black ever", if "black" is used as a race, it is racism...

Then, "i won't date black because i find their skin tone not attractive" is discrimination resulting of racism.

But if someone says "black as a skin tone isn't attractive to me", then it is not racism. So, the thing that makes it "racist" is the "i won't date x group of people ever". It's the decision, it's the discrimination.

TLDR: You can find something unattractive but if you discriminate group of people by categorizing a morphological trait you're racist.

 

[Kurita]

Let's say you like lighter skin. Or even darker skin.

I dunno. I'm just being devils advocate here.

Is not wanting to date men sexist?

LMAO

 

[TheCthultist]

Just to take it back to the original question one more time, since something someone just said in one of the many posts on this or the last page (I legit can't find it now) mentioned something interesting. While I stand by the fact that someone saying they "won't date someone whose X race" is racist, someone saying "I would only ever date someone of X race" doesn't strike me as racist... and I can't for the life of me decide why that is. Is it just the negative connotation that the first one puts on a specific race? Or is there some part of the second one that just isn't striking the same nerve that the first one does?

I'll date anything that moves.

And there's the nice safe way out of all this. Keep an open mind and life will be way more enjoyable... or weird... or both...

 

[Chuckie]

I thought I’ve made it pretty clear a few times that I’m speaking about racism through an American lens, I apologize if I failed to do that.

Fair enough. I have heard the statement before (only whites in America can be racist) but I do wonder in how widespread this opinion is. For language to change, a majority of people would have to agree on the 'new' definition of a word.

 

[Neece]

But it's dangerous, not to mention stupid, to attack people for what they find attractive.

Do you consider questioning them "why" an attack? What's dangerous and stupid about internal self reflection? Especially when the given reason of "visual features" doesn't make a whole lot of sense given that black people can "look white", or have the same "visual features" of blonde hair, fair skin, freckles, blue/green eyes, etc.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

What if you only find black or white ladies beautiful?

Racist is if you discriminate against a race. Feeling spirior or just straight up hate.

But if it's a matter of "taste" then it is no racism I think.

 

[Cocaloch]

When did the definition of racism change?

When was "the definition of racism" created? That's simply not how words work.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

Fair enough. I have heard the statement before (only whites in America can be racist) but I do wonder in how widespread this opinion is. For language to change, a majority of people would have to agree on the 'new' definition of a word.

Probably less than more. But I believe as we open the panel for discussion more and more slowly but surely people will get to thinking, even if they don’t necessarily end up agreeing in that regard.

It is unfair for me to assume people from other countries are aware of the nuances of a deeply rooted and complex issue such as racism in my country. I know little to none about racism in other countries.

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

Gay men aren’t sexually attracted to women because that’s their sexual orientation, not because they refuse to date women.

The attempt at comparing lack of attraction due to sexual orientation and lack of interest due to thinking all members of a race share the same or similar physical characteristics was already done and it didn’t work then either.

Who says it’s because they think all black people look identical? If I only find blonde women attractive am I racist for not finding an extreme majority of Asian women unattractive? You’re arguing an impossible argument where you’re deciding that someone’s motivation for sexual preference is coming from a place of hatred.

Do you consider questioning them "why" an attack? What's dangerous and stupid about internal self reflection? Especially when the given reason of "visual features" doesn't make a whole lot of sense given that black people can "look white", or have the same "visual features" of blonde hair, fair skin, freckles, blue/green eyes, etc.

I don’t consider it an “attack” to ask why but all you’ll get presumably is “cos I do”. One of my friends has only ever had Asian girlfriends and he’s white. If I asked why he’d say because he finds them more attractive than white and black girls. I don’t see what the point in pushing that harder is when it’s a completely victimless stance.

 

[Cocaloch]

And i think you are wrong. Sorry.

Why?

Race is indeed a social construct. And it has an history and people suffers from that. But i don't thing calling out people for not liking x races is the correct way to adress than pain.

Why? Clearly that will have some effect. I don't know if calling people out is the right approach per se, but establishing that this is wrong is a good step towards people being better in the future.

So deconstruct it. Call them out for categorizing/hierarchizing people into races.

No one person is doing this. If we just stop saying we are doing it we also won't have stopped doing it. This is just advocating for burying our heads in the sand.

The reality should be that all humans are equals even if they have morphological/cultural/whatever differences. So why referring to races, then?

I'm not sure why things being better would lead to the dissolution of concepts like class, race, gender, and sexual orientation, which I agree with, means we can't use these clearly operative categories of analysis now. It won't go away on its own. To combat racism we need to understand it, just like anything else.

Fight the words. Everytime you say that word you make it legit.

The words are already commonly understood social categories. Not using them won't change it. France hasn't exactly gotten rid of racism. These structures exist whether or not we are aware of them.

Fight racism, fight discrimination against people of color, it's indeed the same fight.

As far as I can tell, your approach to fighting them involves saying there is nothing to fight.

Fight why white people feels black people are inherently different than them or even inferiors to them. Fight the concept.

Everyone who studies racism does this. I'm not sure what you're advocating for. Racists aren't racist just because they call black people black.

Probably less than more. But I believe as we open the panel for discussion more and more slowly but surely people will get to thinking, even if they don't necessarily end up agreeing in that regard.

It is unfair for me to assume people from other countries are aware of the nuances of a deeply rooted and complex issue such as racism in my country. I know little to none about racism in other countries.

I mean you're also using a specific alternative to the relatively new academic sense of the word that's hardly common even here. That sense of the word being that racism is aiding the system that perpetuates white supremacy. Nothing about that system hurting you means you can't aid it. I'm honestly not even really sure where your definition is coming from ideologically. You can support things that hurt you.

Who says it's because they think all black people look identical?

If you say you are not attracted to all black people presumably you think there are certain traits that all black people must have, or a certain list of traits that all black people must share in where the entire list is negative.

Besides the fact that both of those are pretty clearly racist, they are also pretty clearly not true.

 

[Alej]

"I won't date Andrew who's black." = Not Racist. Andrew happens to be black but it is Andrew she won't date for whatever reasons even if his skin tone comes in.

"I won't date the black guy called Andrew." = Racist. She won't date the black guy who happens to be Andrew. Andrew isn't Andrew anymore, he is The Black Guy.

So, as a redhead, i don't feel offended at "i don't find your hair attractive, so we shouldn't date", but i feel offended at "i won't date a redhead".

Maybe we can close this case. I found the truthfacts.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Who says it's because they think all black people look identical? If I only find blonde women attractive am I racist for not finding an extreme majority of Asian women unattractive? You're arguing an impossible argument where you're deciding that someone's motivation for sexual preference is coming from a place of hatred.

We're talking about someone specifically stating that they refuse to date black women. I'm not really interested in your personal hypotheticals

If someone says they refuse to date anyone from group x, it means there is an undesirable characteristic they feel is common enough in that group to remove them from eligibility for their personal pool

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

Definitely racist unless he gives a really clear reasons! (and even then, NEVER is sketchy)

i'm definitely not attracted to black girls in general, but there's always exceptions, unfortunately i rarely meet them where i live

 

[Some Nobody]

The answer's yes. It'll always be yes. Stop trying to convince yourself you're not racist, and ask yourself why you are lol.

Its fine to have preferences. "I find asian women more attractive than Latina women." Or whatever. But saying "I won't date a Latina woman" is racist. You meet a woman, you get along with her, she's attractive by society's standards, you have great conversation with her, but you don't like her because...?

 

[Neece]

If I only find blonde women attractive am I racist for not finding an extreme majority of Asian women unattractive?

Would you date an asian woman with blonde hair? Or a black woman with blonde hair?

Or if by blonde, you mean a white woman with blonde hair, does that mean you would stop being attracted to your wife if one day she decided to dye her hair jet black? Like when does this preference for a certain feature become outright disdain for something different?

If I asked why he'd say because he finds them more attractive than white and black girls. I don't see what the point in pushing that harder is when it's a completely victimless stance.

I wouldn't pursue further questioning if it stops at "I'm more attracted to asian women." We all have preferences. That's normal. The further questioning would start at "I would never date a black woman." Because it stopped being a preference and became a law. And I'd be curious why the hard stance. Especially because black women, for example, can have a wide variety of different "visual features." They can even "look asian."

 

[Cocaloch]

"I won't date Andrew who's black." = Not Racist. Andrew happens to be black but it is Andrew she won't date for whatever reasons even if his skin tone comes in.

"I won't date the black guy called Andrew." = Racist. She won't date the black guy who happens to be Andrew. Andrew isn't Andrew anymore, he is The Black Guy.

So, as a redhead, i don't feel offended at "i don't find your hair attractive, so we shouldn't date", but i feel offended at "i won't date a redhead".

Maybe we can close this case. I found the truthfacts.

No one in the thread said that ever not dating one person of a race is racist. That'd be absurd.

I don't even think I'd call the second one racist so much as nonstandard English. I'd assume it was someone who doesn't have a strong grip on the language, so I certainly wouldn't make any value judgement based on how they construct sentences.

Either way, what's going on in this thread isn't about words and syntax, it's about ideas.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Those characteristics aren't shared by every member of a race though. Even then, it's a mighty big coincidence that a lot of people just happen to not be attracted to a set of characteristics just happen to show up frequency in people of a specific race.

I agree. I find it extremely unlikely and practically impossible to not be able to find even a single individual of a particular race that you do find attractive. I do have to concede however that sexuality is such a complicated topic that there is an extremely slight chance that someone out there just doesn't find any member of a race attractive.

 

[Theonik]

Probably? Ultimately it comes down to you deciding who is deserving of your D and racially motivated action might be racist but I would argue that it is not inherently wrong as anyone can choose whomever they want to date on whatever arbitrary criteria they please.

 

[Infinite]

The answer is yes

Edit: and I see folks are still hell bent on letting dictionaries define sociological concepts for them.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Refuse?

Yes.

 

[a.wd]

Yes.

 

[Spikematic]

I'll date anything that moves.

I'm free this weekend.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

I mean you're also using a specific alternative to the relatively new academic sense of the word that's hardly common even here. That sense of the word being that racism is aiding the system that perpetuates white supremacy. Nothing about that system hurting you means you can't aid it. I'm honestly not even really sure where your definition is coming from ideologically. You can support things that hurt you.

Yes, but by lending into it doesn’t hurt the white supremacy structure that is racism in America and inherently white people in America. Minorities to not have the means to oppress.

 

[Christhor]

I would only date someone with blue or green eyes.

 

[Messofanego]

If a person does simply doesn't find a certain race attractive, no. If the sole reason is race, yes.

If they don't like a certain race because of the fact they belong to a certain race, sure. If they simply do not find certain physical features attractive, I wouldn't consider that racist.

Sure. But if someone tells me "I just don't find Asians attractive" or "I just don't find blacks attractive" I'll hold off on labeling them as racist. Is it suspect? Perhaps. But I don't know what they're thinking about that race so I'll take their word for it rather than assume something simply because i can't apply it to myself.

It's racist, dude.

 

[Alej]

I would only date someone with blue or green eyes.

You monster!

 

[Window]

Yes.

 

[Verano]

Refusing to date other races is racist? Da fuq! Thats fucking stupid. If he or she dont wanna date...fuck it...move on to the next white,black, asian, middle eastern, european female/male who do wanna date you. People have preferences on who they wanna date..its up to them not up to a group of dudes who feel jaded by women dont wanna date them on neogaf.

 

[Infinite]

Refusing to date other races is racist? Da fuq! Thats fucking stupid. If he or she dont wanna date...fuck it...move on to the next white,black, asian, middle eastern, european female/male who do wanna date you. People have preferences on who they wanna date..its up to them not up to a group of dudes who feel jaded by women dont wanna date them on neogaf.

I mean I'm obviously going to do that anyway. It's still racist of them tho

 

[Seiryoden]

Edit: and I see folks are still hell bent on letting dictionaries define sociological concepts for them.

As opposed to...

 

[Infinite]

As opposed to...

An encyclopedia, friend.

There's a free one available online to get you started.

 

[acohrs]

I would only date someone with blue or green eyes.

I'm in!

 

[Messofanego]

Fuck no

its like saying refuse to date people of certain gender is being sexist. this logic is simply retarded.

everyone has preferences

No more so than a gay man is sexist

People aren’t prejudiced because they prefer certain visual features. Maybe the foundation of their preference has some sort of societal influence in it, but people don’t have to pretend to find anything attractive.

Why do people keep on bringing up sexual orientation, something that's innate i.e. not choice based, and equate it to a social construct like physical features and race where refusing to date specific races no matter what isn't considered racism?

 

[Seiryoden]

An encyclopedia, friend.

There's a free one available online to get you started.

 

[Ravensmash]

Refuse?

Yes.

This is the key.

If you refuse then yes, that's racist.

If you're simply not attracted to an individual then that's just.. attraction.

 

[Infinite]

This is the key.

If you refuse then yes, that's racist.

If you're simply not attracted to an individual then that's just.. attraction.

Yeah but this isn't about being not attracted to an individual it's about not being attracted to an entire race of people.

 

[Timbuktu]

Implicitly, yes, I think there can be racism involved. Everyone is bound to some prejudices and it is worth looking in ourselves to know we are attracted to certain thing/features and not others.

 

[Oberon]

I swear there's a thread like this every few months. It's racist because it implies you know how every person of that race looks like. Not that I am qualified to talk about these kind of things, but I think that beauty standard are very much in favor of certain features over others. Especially in media and hollywood movies which usually dictates more or less the beauty standards. There are also the unfortunate association with darker skin = working class that exists in some cultures. Of course there are some beauty standards that are more or less universal. Things like bigger eyes and smaller nose make someone look cuter (more like a baby). Symmetries in the face usually is also associated with beauty. But of course these are not rules that are written in stone with no deviations.
Maybe with growing diversity in media we won't have to see these kind of threads?

 

[Northernlights]

If you refuse to date someone simply because of the color of their skin, then the obvious answer is YES.

 

[Yoshi]

It slightly depends on how he comes to the conclusion:
- Does he not want to date black people because they are black? Racist.
- Does he not have a stance against black people, but he is personally attracted by features he may not find in black people? Not necessarily racist

You cannot control conciously what you find attractive and there are people who e.g. like naturally thin blonde hair, which is at least very untypical to find in black people and if physical attractiveness is particularly improtant to him and he has such preferences that are very unlikely in a certain ethnicity, he may rightfully come to the conclusion it is unlikely he is attracted by a person of said ethnicity. In this case, it need not be associated with a general racist mindset. However, in the blanket way it is stated in the op it is probably racist.