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[Fenderputty]

Is it impossible for you to understand that someone may honestly like people of their own race and have that strong of a preference?

Absolutes are kind of a problem. Stating "I don't prefer "X" race but am open to any possibility, even if it's remote" changes the dynamic some.

I'm gonna give you the side eye if you're throwing around absolutes though.

 

[Haly]

People have a cartoon caricature of "racism" inside their head and it involves MAGA hats, shouting "n*gger", Confederate flags and a bad sunburn. Anything outside of this very narrow ideal is "just an opinion" or "just a preference".

Systematic prejudice doesn't make itself obvious like that, unfortunately, and the real threat to minorities aren't the MAGA hats, or the slurs, though they don't exactly make life comfortable, but the institutional racism that you can't easily put your finger on and yet will circumscribe everything you do in life simply because of the coincidence of your birth. And because this type racism is so hard to pinpoint, it's very hard to stamp out.

Beauty standards are just one area in which institutionalized racism manifests itself.

"Culture", lol. As if all white people have the same culture, all black people have the same culture, or all Asian people have the same culture. Get out of here with that high school level social literacy.

 

[JensenBeeswax]

OP, if your friend flat out states he wouldn't date someone from a certain race, that's probably racist. If he says he's not yet met a white girl he was really attracted to, that's probably just taste.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

i mean it can be discrimination

but does that make it wrong? I really don't think it does.

Some people are open to anything, some people like branching out. Others aren't, it's just humanity

It does make it wrong. You're helping reinforce the idea that it's OK to discriminate based on skin color but pawn it off as preference. "Preferential" thinking does overlap in other areas of your life. Like, how do you think people came up with these "preferences" in the first place? Certainly not by dating.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I wanted clarification and I got it. If what I always considered a preference is actually racial discrimination then there is nothing to rebuke. It just means I have to broaden my views. So yes, a conclusion.

Okay that's good then. I was really just curious whether you were contesting or understanding.

 

[Figboy79]

It's cool for minorities here to see this thread come up practically monthly as we swipe on profiles in dating apps saying "no blacks/asians." The tortured justification of racism in all of its forms large and small continues.

Lol. Right?

Back when I was single I tried to get into the online dating scene because so many of my friends had so much success with them (it dawned on me many years later that the common thread was them being white dudes...). It was soul crushing seeing so many profiles with “no blacks/Asians/short dudes.” As a short black dude, needless to say I was disheartened. Tried a few different services, same thing, profile after profile. Eventually I gave up on dating sites altogether. It’s funny that I eventually met my wife through a mutual friend and we hit it off.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Someone whose family has an immigrant background could be culturally similar. I know that affects my relationships a bit. I'd just as easily date someone who's second generation Polish American or Nigerian American as I would someone of my ethnic background.

that is still a product of racism except it goes further back than everyday american racism, it implies that others won't/can't/have a hard time fitting in when you only fit in b/c you were around it long enough aka from birth

The pics would be better if showed more variety in black people, even if they are not as pretty

for example

or this black woman

Spoiler

1 drop rule by being like 1/4th african

 

[mckmas8808]

Did I say it wasn't? But actively discounting all red heads because they are red heads?

There are some people who feel that way. It's okay that they do. All I'll ask them to do is treat them respectfully and kindly and as humans. Not dating certain someone types of people isn't a humanity crime if the motive is in the right place.

 

[DragonKnight]

Lol. Right?

Back when I was single I tried to get into the online dating scene because so many of my friends had so much success with them (it dawned on me many years later that the common thread was them being white dudes...). It was soul crushing seeing so many profiles with “no blacks/Asians/short dudes.” As a short black dude, needless to say I was disheartened. Tried a few different services, same thing, profile after profile. Eventually I gave up on dating sites altogether. It’s funny that I eventually met my wife through a mutual friend and we hit it off.

Dont they have minority oriented sites these days?

 

[MikeyB]

Refusing to date people of a certain race is racism and should be acknowledged as such. However, unlike decisions like voting for someone, hiring someone, or (in the case of police) choosing to arrest someone, beigg attracted to someone is almost entirely subconscious. I am skeptical that people who have successfully overcome biases or acknowledged them and offset them can do that with respect to attraction.

So, I guess... if you are attracted to only one race, that's racist, but I wouldn't criticize somebody for doing that. I would criticize them for saying it was justified.

 

[StreetDisciple]

No it's not racist it's ignorance. I'm black, my nephews are half black. They refuse to date black women because the ones they have dealt with are the stereotypical loud mouth black girls. It hurts a little that they think this way but they are not racist just dumb. They will most likely grow out of it they are still in HS but if not oh well.

 

[mckmas8808]

This whole thing even about cultures is weird. What's wrong with another culture? Sure, if you find something morally, ethically, or philosophically offensive then sure but there are many great things about other cultures. My GF is Chinese and every Chinese New Year her parents give me a red envelope of cash. It's great. Unless yours or their culture dominates your life IE you do almost nothing else but things associated with your culture then you have don't really have an excuse do you? If the relationship glue is your culture then you may end up not liking each other long term.

Just another form of prejudice imo

That's my take away from this as well

You people just don't get it.

 

[Haly]

There are some people who feel that way. It's okay that they do. All I'll ask them to do is treat them respectfully and kindly and as humans. Not dating certain someone types of people isn't a humanity crime if the motive is in the right place.

I cannot think of a right motive for what you're saying. Hypothetically, one exists. For example, if someone has life threatening seizures from exposure to certain shades of skin color then I can acquiesce to them not dating people of that skin color but beyond that I'm at a loss for "right motive".

Fringe hypotheticals are "fun" to think about but ultimately pointless when we're discussing broad trends. Yes, maybe one or two people might have a justifiable reason, if you look at them closely and in detail; they doesn't vindicate the sentiment in the general. People don't get to use extreme exceptions as shields from criticism. It's like that "what if a dying child's last wish was to say n*gger??" meme. It's fucking dumb and insulting.

 

[DragonKnight]

No it's not racist it's ignorance. I'm black, my nephews are half black. They refuse to date black women because the ones they have dealt with are the stereotypical loud mouth black girls. It hurts a little that they think this way but they are not racist just dumb. They will most likely grow out of it they are still in HS but if not oh well.

How arent they racist again?

Please tell me youve seen Boondocks and are familiar with uncle ruckus.

 

[Telosfortelos]

Racial preference is racism. Racism is really common, as it turns out. People that would otherwise look askance at comments on your typical Fox News article will struggle with what they perceive to be benign racial preferences and look to reclassify their feelings as something other than racism. But it's racial preference, deeply tied to the same subconscious reasons a hiring manager might support Black Lives Matter and yet give preference to white sounding names.

 

[Haly]

Racism derived from ignorance is still racism. Self-hating racism exists you know. Christ I know I'm prejudiced against mainlainder Chinese as American Chinese. I'm not proud of it but I'm aware it's there.

In the context of dating there are many Asian women who won't date Asian men because they don't want to be subjected to the Confucian culture ingrained in many young Asian men. This is a particularly complicated situation where I can empathize with both the women who want to reject the patriarchy of their homeland as well as the men who have also rejected that very same patriarchy and yet are lumped in with those who didn't.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

I can't flatly say yes, but I can say probably. It's not racist if you don't find a particular ethnicity attractive, atleast not the stereotypical ideas of what we think of that race. Not being attracted to black women doesn't mean you are racist...although being cagey about why you wouldn't date a black women pretty sketchy.

EDIT: And if I can just say this, I'm starting to get perturbed at how watered down some people are making the term "racist". Clearly racist/racism has a strongly negative connotation, and I have to be honest I don't like that many want to use it for any slight bias or difference in perception, etc. even if it's not negative or harmful or if it is, it's in the most minimal and relatively acceptable way possible. It muddles the dialogue, at least in my humble opinion.

 

[Earthbound64]

Dont they have minority oriented sites these days?

Separate but equal?
Just more places for people to have to register if they're fine with dating people from any race.

To be more to the point, as someone with a couple of specific relationship interests, most "specialized" sites are far less active and useful than the few general sites.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

You people just don't get it.

Here's a head-scratcher:

Where do these preferences come from? Did they date everyone of different backgrounds or did other prejudices, bias, and stereotypes influence their choice in who to date?

 

[Figboy79]

Dont they have minority oriented sites these days?

I honestly have no idea. I haven’t been in the dating scene for 14 years. I imagine a lot has hanged since then. Back then, I was only familiar with a few dating sites, and none of them were minority oriented. Even so, I wasn’t looking to limit myself to “minorities only.” I was looking to meet someone, anyone, who had similar interests as me. Being shuffled off to the “colored corner,” rubs me the wrong way.

It was just really disappointed that I’d come across profiles of women that seemed to have a similar taste in humor, hobbies, relationship goals, only to keep reading the profile and seeing a “NO BLACK DUDES” in big ass text. Even more disheartening when it was a black woman or woman of color. Sometimes I’d message them anyway, thinking maybe they just hadn’t met a cool dude that was black, but got no responses.

No matter how you slice it, being rejected for your skin color fucking sucks. It feels dehumanizing and embarrassing. It’s not something you can change, so you feel kind of worthless and unattractive. That filters into your sense of self worth.

I mean, shit, I was rejected by black girls growing up because I wasn’t dark enough. For others, I wasn’t light enough. It was a weird spot to be in.

 

[see5harp]

Anyone who legit writes "no POC" on an online dating site, I mean I wouldn't even want to date that person even if we ended up being compatible. I mean what the fuck.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Just because innate white supremacy, which affects all people in said society, has you not wanting to date black people, doesn't mean that you have to do it. You can acknowledge that you've been carved that way and still go about your business. There's plenty of poc who acknowledge they may not desire their own race, or only want their own race, and still go on.

 

[EloquentM]

You people just don't get it.

What do you mean YOU peeeeeeople

 

[Boy Wander]

I can't flatly say yes, but I can say probably. It's not racist if you don't find a particular ethnicity attractive, atleast not the stereotypical ideas of what we think of that race. Not being attracted to black women doesn't mean you are racist...although being cagey about why you wouldn't date a black women pretty sketchy.

I'd say if you find fewer black women attractive then that's probably ok but to say you're not attracted to black women period is a bad look. You're basically saying they're all the same. Which is inherently racist.

I would admit that I find more white women attractive but I'd also say I'd seen some stunning black women.

 

[mckmas8808]

I can understand internalized racism, yes.

Because honestly their preference is fueled by racism.

It does make it wrong. You're helping reinforce the idea that it's OK to discriminate based on skin color but pawn it off as preference. "Preferential" thinking does overlap in other areas of your life. Like, how do you think people came up with these "preferences" in the first place? Certainly not by dating.

I love this conversation because we are all being open and cool about it and learning something.

But I think while you are trying to make other people more open-minded, you are closing your mind off to people that genuinely want to date people that look like themselves, their mothers, family, etc.

Like this is starting to look like the super costal elite liberal white guy that tries to tell the urban black guy from the south what racism is (if that makes any sense).

What do you mean YOU peeeeeeople

People that think wanting to date people within your own race is racism within itself.

 

[MWS Natural]

Yes.

We have this thread a few times a year.
People get defensive and say having a preference isn't racist. People respond that institutionalized racism informs preferences. People get more defensive. 2 pages in people start posting pictures of hot black women. Thread closes.

Crazy to see how much GAF has changed. Years ago this thread would be 50/50 racist vs non-racists.

 

[LionPride]

I posted this in another thread but I don't knkw what annoys me more
"I only like chocolate 🍫" or "No black guys"

Woman the hell? No, shit ain't okay

 

[Haly]

But I think while you are trying to make other people more open-minded, you are closing your mind off to people that genuinely want to date people that look like themselves, their mothers, family, etc.

I understand imprinting on your mother and/or sisters as well, in terms of psychology. I mean I'm pretty sure there's literature that supports it though I never delved deeply into that end.

Again, if you can articulate their reasons and I can't find any contradictions in it, mental fallacies, or cognitive dissonance, by all means, I'll change my stance. But I have yet once to encounter an honest, justifiable reason for these so called racial "preferences", and as people have said, this conversation pops up on GAF every year or two so I've seen my share of people in denial/being disingenuous/substantiating their reasoning with shaky evolutionary psychology/etc.

This is actually the super liberal coastal minority telling the super "liberal" coastal white guy why they might not be as liberal as they are. Like, I'm not even touching dating in the deep south. This "racial preference" nonsense is something you'll find even in the beating heart of Los Angeles or New York City.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I love this conversation because we are all being open and cool about it and learning something.

But I think while you are trying to make other people more open-minded, you are closing your mind off to people that genuinely want to date people that look like themselves, their mothers, family, etc.

Like this is starting to look like the super costal elite liberal white guy that tries to tell the urban black guy from the south what racism is (if that makes any sense).

What's their to learn about purposely closing off options because of racist reasoning?

People that think wanting to date people within your own race is racism within itself.

What if I said I prefer to hire white people? Does that not raise a red flag?

 

[gutter_trash]

culturally there are some clashes that don't mesh.

lots of Eastern cultures value materialism, apparence and social status as a big thing. For one, i'm not a materialistic guy and don't give a shit a bout "status" and shit hits a wall when i have to meet the parents of the girl who do value those things.

 

[Sai-kun]

'i want to date someone that looks like my mom'

okay mike

 

[LionPride]

What if you would avoid dating people of the same race or ONLY dating people of the same race?

I would rather not date white women

I will not refuse to do so

I have my preferences but I would not refuse to date someone because they were white

If I like someone I like them point blank period

 

[Haly]

'i want to date someone that looks like my mom'

okay mike

You can't tell me daddy culture doesn't come from the same place.

 

[mckmas8808]

What's their to learn about purposely closing off options because of racist reasoning?


What if I said I prefer to hire white people? Does that not raise a red flag?

I understand imprinting on your mother and/or sisters as well, in terms of psychology. I mean I'm pretty sure there's literature that supports it though I never delved deeply into that end.

Again, if you can articulate their reasons and I can't find any contradictions in it, mental fallacies, or cognitive dissonance, by all means, I'll change my stance. But I have yet once to encounter an honest, justifiable reason for these so called racial "preferences", and as people have said, this conversation pops up on GAF every year or two so I've seen my share of people in denial/being disingenuous/substantiating their reasoning with shaky evolutionary psychology/etc.

This is actually the super liberal coastal minority telling the super "liberal" coastal white guy why they might not be as liberal as they are. Like, I'm not even touching dating in the deep south. This "racial preference" nonsense is something you'll find even in the beating heart of Los Angeles or New York City.

This person said it better than I can I believe.

We have a limited time upon this Earth. While I don't personally agree, I can see how some would not want to expend time and energy to develop a romantic relationship with someone from a different race or culture, particularly if they are not lacking for relations in their own group. People also tend to do the easy things and interracial and interreligious relationships can have a number of complications particularly if headed toward matrimony and child rearing. I can also see the value in minority cultures desiring to maintain their sense of community and history and self by not breeding with outsiders. Stating what the ops friend said is on it's face racist, but I'll be optimistic and say it's the twitterization of communication at fault.

The parts that I bolded literally explains how I felt before I met my wife. There's zero wrong with this.

 

[Timbuktu]

culturally there are some clashes that don't mesh.

lots of Eastern cultures value materialism, apparence and social status as a big thing. For one, i'm not a materialistic guy and don't give a shit a bout "status" and shit hits a wall when i have to meet the parents of the girl who do value those things.

That's hardly a east west thing.

 

[Sai-kun]

You can't tell me daddy culture doesn't come from the same place.

ive never ever wanted to date or fuck someone that looked like my father

 

[Subpar Spatula]

This person said it better than I can I believe.



The parts that I bolded literally explains how I felt before I met my wife. There's zero wrong with this.

There's zero wrong with it?

"interracial and interreligious relationships can have a number of complications particularly if headed toward matrimony and child rearing."

Even the idea of maintaining a community. Why can't an Asian person join that community? It reinforces the idea that people are so radically different and cannot adapt or even exist with your community's mindset.

 

[MiketheBSG]

Yes

 

[Haly]

The parts that I bolded literally explains how I felt before I met my wife. There's zero wrong with this.

I can see how some would not want to expend time and energy to develop a romantic relationship with someone from a different race or culture, particularly if they are not lacking for relations in their own group.

Culturally, I can accept that. Racially, no. I don't see why dating someone of a different race should require extra time and energy vs same race. Unless race is a big part of your life and you make a big deal about it at every opportunity, then again I'd have to ask why it's so important to you.

People also tend to do the easy things and interracial and interreligious relationships can have a number of complications particularly if headed toward matrimony and child rearing.

This I can accept, I guess, but at the same time, the path of least resistance often means maintaining the status quo, and if the status quo is racism then...

I can also see the value in minority cultures desiring to maintain their sense of community and history and self

Hypothetically, yes, but when generic white girl/white guy on Tinder has "no blacks" on their profile, I would have to stretch my imagination to think that they're really interested in keeping alive their minority culture (like, what, Irish? Italian?, Germanic?) and not just blatantly shallow or prejudiced. Also, if they really were interested in, you know, keeping the culture alive, they wouldn't use "no PoC", they'd use "only <my race here>", but how often do you see this versus the opposite?

(I know this particular point is real because I'm moderately familiar with the Deaf community, which is actually struggling to keep Deaf culture alive in America in the face of increased medical options for hearing recovery. There are parents rejecting medical treatments for their children for the sake of keeping them within the culture. There are youth refusing to date anyone non-Deaf for the sake of their culture. There's friction between the wholly deaf and the partially deaf, those who live in all-Deaf communities and those who live in the mainstream (i.e. hearing), a lot of needless tribalism, all for the sake of their culture. So, I'm actually not a stranger to this reasoning, but I don't approve of it at all.)

 

[gutter_trash]

That's hardly a east west thing.

yeah it is

 

[Youth Crew]

I think I know why this discussion is such a problem.

So, by definition:

Race:

A socially constructed category of identification based on physical characteristics, ancestry, historical affiliation, or shared culture.

So, by refusing to date a certain race, you can be refusing any of these:

physical characteristics, ancestry, historical affiliation, or shared culture.

So you can have preference on physical characterisics. You can find some races physically unattractive based on certain characteristics (ex. Skin color, facial features, etc) which define their race. Therefore, you can prefer just not to date that race.

Which is fine, that doesn’t make you racist. You cannot control who you’re attracted to. Same with sexuality. People can’t control who they find attractive.


Now, refusing to date someone based on the other parts of the definition, which generally have nothing to do with who the person actually is:

ancestry, historical affiliation, or shared culture

If you don’t date someone based on those. I’d say yes, that’s racist.

 

[Sch1sm]

yeah it is

That's generalizing and you know it.

 

[mckmas8808]

There's zero wrong with it?

"interracial and interreligious relationships can have a number of complications particularly if headed toward matrimony and child rearing."

Even the idea of maintaining a community. Why can't an Asian person join that community? It reinforces the idea that people are so radically different and cannot adapt or even exist with your community's mindset.

They can join that community. It's 100% fine. But they don't have to join that community through me. That's the point. And that should also be fine. If they joined the community because my sister dated an Asian guy then cool. It's all love.

You are looking some people like myself (NOT the OP) in the wrong way. The context for people like myself is different. I've always wanted my woman to some what reflect me to some degree. I want some of my problems to also be her problems. I have nappy hair and so does she lol.

It's the small things like that, that I'm talking about. That's a shared community amongst each other. Just "getting it" you know?

 

[Timbuktu]

yeah it is

You're telling me people in the west are not materialistic, don't care about appearance or status?

 

[Cocaloch]

yeah it is

Traditionally the West has been seen as materialistic and contrasted with a spiritualistic East. So it's a pretty odd thing to say, since you're turning it on its head entirely.

 

[Drinkel]

Yes.

It's the refusal part that makes it really bad to me. Like the person knows all possible characteristics of a race of people and decided that it could never be of value to them. And that's ignoring how murky and variable racial lines are to begin with.

 

[Youth Crew]

I think I know why this discussion is such a problem.

So, by definition:

Race:

A socially constructed category of identification based on physical characteristics, ancestry, historical affiliation, or shared culture.

So, by refusing to date a certain race, you can be refusing any of these:

physical characteristics, ancestry, historical affiliation, or shared culture.

So you can have preference on physical characterisics. You can find some races physically unattractive based on certain characteristics (ex. Skin color, facial features, etc) which define their race. Therefore, you can prefer just not to date that race.

Which is fine, that doesn’t make you racist. You cannot control who you’re attracted to. Same with sexuality. People can’t control who they find attractive.


Now, refusing to date someone based on the other parts of the definition, which generally have nothing to do with who the person actually is:

ancestry, historical affiliation, or shared culture

If you don’t date someone based on those. I’d say yes, that’s racist.

Quoting since I was the last post on the page...

 

[Wowfunhappy]

History and the social meaning of racial categories. Frankly this is incredibly obvious, and the fact that it's come up over and over again in the thread is indicative of some blatantly racist thinking. Race isn't the same thing as height.

Height is a tangible verifiable metric that can be judged independently of external factors. Race is a constantly evolving social construct with tons of relevant history that still to this day shapes aspects of society.

I dunno man, how could they possibly be any different though?

Okay, what if it was "dark skin" instead of ethnic background more generally?

I knew someone in college who said she never found guys with blond hair attractive. I don't know why, that's just how she felt. Is that any more or less arbitrary than "height" or "skin color"?

Making decisions based on appearance is always surface level and "unfair" in a large sense, but I think we've generally agreed that it's acceptable for dating.

 

[Haly]

Which is fine, that doesn't make you racist. You cannot control who you're attracted to. Same with sexuality. People can't control who they find attractive.

This is a misunderstanding of either sexuality or beauty. In the past, people preferred thicker women. Beauty was found in being slightly overweight, because this was a symbol of status, virility and wealth. Modern underwear models would've looked malnourished and unattractive to these societies.

That what was beautiful then is not beautiful now should be proof enough that the human concept of beauty is not wholly biological. If it's not biological then it must be sociological and if it's sociological, you can exercise some degree of control over it.

Sexual arousal is intricately meshed with, but not the same thing as beauty and attraction.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Alright fuck it we haven't hit the "post attractive people" part imma do it

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Ew no

There, better. -)

Not gonna lie. I'm seeing The Mountain Between Us just so I can see this handsome hulk of suave masculinity on screen for another two hours.

With my wife, of course.

Haha. Reminds me of a recent interview with Idris Elba and Trevor Noah, where he was saying he watched the movie with his partner, and he enjoyed the movie but admit he got a bit annoyed every time there was a shirtless scene with Elba because she'd always go "oof" or "hhhnngg" every time xD