Support NeoGAF

[Fess]

Zzzz *gasp!*

If the rumors are true that the next Xbox will run Steam and have third party manufacturers doing their own versions.

Won’t that turn it into a Steam Machine??

On my PC I boot into Steam Big Picture and except for 5 seconds of looking at a Windows desktop it feels like a Steam device, literally.
MS could tweak the OS and have some overlay to get people onto Gamepass etc but the big thing will no doubt be Steam access, right?
Then is it still a Xbox? Or is it more like a Steam Machine?

… just tell me to go back to bed if this is dumb zzzz

 

[Soodanim]

If it is, people will want that stripped down version of Windows for their PCs.

 

[Fahdis]

I will actually buy an Xbox for the first time ever. Proud Green rat from then on! But they better not Block PS Games on it.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Why people ask weird questions ?

Does Steam have game pass ? No ? then NO !

MS wants subscription. just like most of their software now. pay them monthly to use their service. and unless Steam has that, it's not gonna happen.

 

[Denton]

I already posted this in another thread but it wouldn't surprise me if next Xbox was PC with slightly customized Windows that would support controllers, have streamlined and integrated driver updates, preinstalled xbox app and steam.

 

[baphomet]

Why people ask weird questions ?

Does Steam have game pass ? No ? then NO !

MS wants subscription. just like most of their software now. pay them monthly to use their service. and unless Steam has that, it's not gonna happen.

Steam will for sure be accessible on the next "Xbox."

 

[Fess]

If it is, people will want that stripped down version of Windows for their PCs.

Maybe if they do like Valve with Steam Deck and let people boot into regular Windows if they want to install mods. No closed platform restrictions please!

 

[Fess]

I will actually buy an Xbox for the first time ever. Proud Green rat from then on! But they better not Block PS Games on it.

MS won’t block PS games but Sony could do it.

 

[onQ123]

Zzzz *gasp!*

If the rumors are true that the next Xbox will run Steam and have third party manufacturers doing their own versions.

Won’t that turn it into a Steam Machine??

On my PC I boot into Steam Big Picture and except for 5 seconds of looking at a Windows desktop it feels like a Steam device, literally.
MS could tweak the OS and have some overlay to get people onto Gamepass etc but the big thing will no doubt be Steam access, right?
Then is it still a Xbox? Or is it more like a Steam Machine?

… just tell me to go back to bed if this is dumb zzzz

In the event that PS5 Pro does release in 2024 but there is no new Xbox Series console because there is already Series S & X

There’s absolutely zero chance it will offer twice the performance. And I doubt 1.5 too. Also lol at “only” a 1.5x performance increase. You guys are living in a fantasy world.

www.neogaf.com

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Despite this rumbling on forever, it seems nobody has actually answered the question of how Microsoft get paid when you can buy all your games from 3rd parties and how much they charge for a console that no longer benefits from console revenue streams.

For 3rd party stores, how does that work? Do they earn less money on Xbox so Microsoft gets a cut? How much? Do Microsoft want 30%? If so, where does it come from? Publishers? "We'd like to opt out of our games on steam being on Xbox, thanks" The store? "Yes, games on steam cost more on Xbox" [nobody liked that].

I think Xbox games and steam games are priced fairly similarly now, certainly for big AAA titles. Conceivably 3rd party stores on Xbox could be the most expensive way to buy a game, if the publishers and the store all want to get paid the same amount they're currently paid and then Microsoft adds it's cut on top.

So the alternative is Microsoft earns it's money through online service fees "but when I play a steam game on PC, I don't pay to play online" - unpopular.

Or to charge more for the hardware and make a profit there.
"Why is this so much more expensive then all the other consoles?"

I get why people think it'd be nice to have, but I don't know if it makes sense for Microsoft, as a money making operation, or for consumers who care about how much the things they're buying cost.

 

[Robb]

Could be I guess. I think that’d only dilute their branding even more though. I certainly wouldn’t buy a product like that at least.

 

[Fess]

I already posted this in another thread but it wouldn't surprise me if next Xbox was PC with slightly customized Windows that would support controllers, have streamlined and integrated driver updates, preinstalled xbox app and steam.

Yeah that’s roughly how the rumor goes. And no doubt it would be an interesting device, as long as it’s not too weak. It’s what I requested maybe a year ago, literally might’ve skipped building my living room PC if it had existed earlier.

But now that I’ve done the jump to PC and have all games including Xbox games on Steam I see things differently.
Now I’m thinking that Steam is what I would use 99.9%.
Is it still a Xbox at that point?
Or is it essentially a Steam Machine with an underlying Windows OS instead of Linux?

 

[Fess]

I get why people think it'd be nice to have, but I don't know if it makes sense for Microsoft, as a money making operation

Good point. Could help Steam, Epic, GOG more than Microsoft.

That said, if they’re willing to pull the plug on Xbox it makes sense, won’t lose all they’re tried doing in the living room. Lots of people on the console side want to try PC gaming but don’t want to ever touch mouse and keyboard or build a SFF build themselves or pay for a monstrous prebuild.

But I just don’t understand Microsoft’s endgame strategy here.

 

[Fess]

In the event that PS5 Pro does release in 2024 but there is no new Xbox Series console because there is already Series S & X

There’s absolutely zero chance it will offer twice the performance. And I doubt 1.5 too. Also lol at “only” a 1.5x performance increase. You guys are living in a fantasy world.

www.neogaf.com

I get that you’re trying to be gaming Nostradamus, but you do have a point. Microsoft is definitely playing with fire here by helping Valve get into the living room properly. I used a docked Steam Deck for awhile before building a proper living room PC and it was 100% like using a console.

My (dark) prediction for awhile now, which usually increase my reaction score from laugh emojis, has been that the whole industry will move into launchers and subscriptions.
* Everyone will start to branch out by using Steam. Seems nice but it’s all a trojan horse.
* Once they have a big IP they’ll do required account login.
* Then they’ll have their own launchers. With exclusives. Has been going on for awhile but is somewhat stumbling since people rather use Steam.
* Then we’ll see subscription exclusives. Nothing there yet but will happen.
* Final step is streaming platforms. With exclusives. Only accessed through subscriptions.

I give it all a decade.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

My guess is it will have windows code that will make it run pc games. But wont have other functionality.

All games you download on it will be pc versions, but forward compatibility team will optimise them to run on fixed hardware with correct settings.

This way 3rd party developers will not have to make a separate xbox version. So hardware sales will be immaterial for getting access to all the games.

It will feature an amd apu that will be sort of high end on release. They will save on cooling, bulk purchase etc so it will still be well priced. But will not be sold at a loss. Am expecting $700-1000 or so.

 

[Fess]

My guess is it will have windows code that will make it run pc games. But wont have other functionality.

All games you download on it will be pc versions, but forward compatibility team will optimise them to run on fixed hardware with correct settings.

This way 3rd party developers will not have to make a separate xbox version. So hardware sales will be immaterial for getting access to all the games.

It will feature an amd apu that will be sort of high end on release. They will save on cooling, bulk purchase etc so it will still be well priced. But will not be sold at a loss. Am expecting $700-1000 or so.

So no file access for mods? That would be a major oversight and it’ll fail terribly.

And while suddenly getting access to all games on ”Xbox”, including Playstation games, from having the normal PC versions, I don’t see how they will make money from 3rd party games. People would just buy everything on Steam.

 

[old-parts]

Maybe one way leans into PC the other leans into console.

Method 1,
* runs console Xbox OS
* uses a virtual container version of Windows but with full access to the hardware (MS has a ton of hypervisor/virtual PC tech so that should be easy), so you get an exit to desktop and can run Steam but MS provide all the drivers.
* MS sets out the specs for Xbox family performance/hardware tiers and its PC HW partners sell those.

So method 1 is still a console defined by MS but more flexible.

Method 2,
* runs Windows OS like a PC.
* MS goes into full Steam clone mode with a fullscreen and desktop PC client.
* A wider choice of PC hardware can be used by MS and its HW partners.

So method 2 would be very much a Steam Machine style system, but that would be a huge gamble for MS, they would need a near perfect out of the box Steam clone which is something I doubt they can do.

Also they would need to retain back compat with past Xbox library which method 2 might not be able to run so method 1 is the more likely.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

So no file access for mods? That would be a major oversight and it’ll fail terribly.

And while suddenly getting access to all games on ”Xbox”, including Playstation games, from having the normal PC versions, I don’t see how they will make money from 3rd party games. People would just buy everything on Steam.

If they’re working with Steam on getting it on the next ‘Xbox’ you’d have to think they’re also talking about cuts of games sold in that platform

 

[Fess]

Method 1,
* runs console Xbox OS
* uses a virtual container version of Windows but with full access to the hardware (MS has a ton of hypervisor/virtual PC tech so that should be easy), so you get an exit to desktop and can run Steam but MS provide all the drivers.
* MS sets out the specs for Xbox family performance/hardware tiers and its PC HW partners sell those.

I’m too dumb to dissect that hypervisor thing but you mean people could run regular Steam versions with full hardware power without loss on a virtual PC?

 

[DenchDeckard]

If I get a machine that can run ALL my xbox content plus steam in my front room and also provides hardware that allows me to get high settings, then it would be a dream come true.

 

[THE DUCK]

Zzzz *gasp!*

If the rumors are true that the next Xbox will run Steam and have third party manufacturers doing their own versions.

Won’t that turn it into a Steam Machine??

On my PC I boot into Steam Big Picture and except for 5 seconds of looking at a Windows desktop it feels like a Steam device, literally.
MS could tweak the OS and have some overlay to get people onto Gamepass etc but the big thing will no doubt be Steam access, right?
Then is it still a Xbox? Or is it more like a Steam Machine?

… just tell me to go back to bed if this is dumb zzzz

I personally think if they do it, it will dual boot. Xbox os by default, steam os on a partition.
I think they will still be targeting this as a living room device, so windows is likely out.

 

[GHG]

MS won’t block PS games but Sony could do it.

Not possible if it's a windows device.

The only thing they could do is reverse course on their decision to port games to PC but that would be petty and only hurt themselves (especially considering they invested in purchasing nixxes for this very purpose).

 

[Fess]

If they’re working with Steam on getting it on the next ‘Xbox’ you’d have to think they’re also talking about cuts of games sold in that platform

My thinking isn’t that they’re working with Valve to get Steam there, I’m thinking they’re simply making a living room PC, possibly with a special smaller Windows version or a Xbox overlay, and the user is then free to install Steam and whatever launcher they want, and the money goes to the storefront owner.

I don’t see how they could get a cut from Steam purchases unless you’re buying a specific Xbox Steam version. How would they know where you’ve bought the games in your usual Steam library?

 

[Fess]

I personally think if they do it, it will dual boot. Xbox os by default, steam os on a partition.
I think they will still be targeting this as a living room device, so windows is likely out.

Then it would 100% be a Steam Machine.

 

[GHG]

I personally think if they do it, it will dual boot. Xbox os by default, steam os on a partition.
I think they will still be targeting this as a living room device, so windows is likely out.

They aren't putting Linux on a Microsoft device by default.

If they’re working with Steam on getting it on the next ‘Xbox’ you’d have to think they’re also talking about cuts of games sold in that platform

Why? They don't for every other windows device that gets sold. What's the argument here that they could use use as leverage?

 

[vaibhavpisal]

So no file access for mods? That would be a major oversight and it’ll fail terribly.

And while suddenly getting access to all games on ”Xbox”, including Playstation games, from having the normal PC versions, I don’t see how they will make money from 3rd party games. People would just buy everything on Steam.

If it wants to offer console like experience, I imagine a price has to be paid. It obviously cannot be like Windows where you can do whatever you want, including mods.

Steam games might cost a bit higher to include xbox cut I presume. All the work will be done by steam, including hosting on their servers. Xbox team will simply optimise settings and ensure it runs correctly. They can work it out as a small cut, maybe 5%.

 

[THE DUCK]

They aren't putting Linux on a Microsoft device by default.



Why? They don't for every other windows device that gets sold. What's the argument here that they could use use as leverage?

Not really thier first choice, but the alternative is windows popping people out into a blue screen or a game not loading into full screen, or an anti cheat not loading. Releasing a pc isn't much of console and will have a lot less appeal to the masses. Unless they create thier own version of windows similar to steam os, which is possible I guess.

Also it wasn't too long ago that we likely would have said ms wasn't releasing games on the ps5 so linux on ms hardware isn't as much of a stretch as it used to be.

 

[Fess]

Not possible if it's a windows device.

The only thing they could do is reverse course on their decision to port games to PC but that would be petty and only hurt themselves (especially considering they invested in purchasing nixxes for this very purpose).

Unless MS use regular off shelf PC parts I’m thinking Sony could use some hardware info to block anyone trying to run their games on Microsoft’s hardware. No?

But Sony as well as Valve, GOG, Epic, Ubi etc are probably not complaining if more people get a living room device where they can buy and play their games using their storefront and launcher.

 

[GHG]

Not really thier first choice, but the alternative is windows popping people out into a blue screen or a game not loading into full screen, or an anti cheat not loading. Releasing a pc isn't much of console and will have a lot less appeal to the masses. Unless they create thier own version of windows similar to steam os, which is possible I guess.

Also it wasn't too long ago that we likely would have said ms wasn't releasing games on the ps5 so linux on ms hardware isn't as much of a stretch as it used to be.

We already know they are doing exactly that.

Windows vs Linux is a completely different proposition than Xbox vs playstation. Windows is still very much the dominant OS while Xbox as a hardware brand is in a death loop (hence they've needed to start treating the division as they would any other software division at the company).

 

[Fess]

If it wants to offer console like experience, I imagine a price has to be paid. It obviously cannot be like Windows where you can do whatever you want, including mods.

Steam games might cost a bit higher to include xbox cut I presume. All the work will be done by steam, including hosting on their servers. Xbox team will simply optimise settings and ensure it runs correctly. They can work it out as a small cut, maybe 5%.

Sounds like a mess tbh. No mods, higher prices, special versions, not optimized by the devs.

 

[Esppiral]

Consoles are just pc's with custom DRM and front ends so I don't see the surprise here, also ps games on an Xbox machine, I already can see Gaf melting

 

[Fess]

Unless they create thier own version of windows similar to steam os, which is possible I guess.

This is what I think they’ll do. Either that or a big screen mode and some Xbox overlay.

 

[Fess]

ps games on an Xbox machine, I already can see Gaf melting

Yeah but is it a Xbox machine if you’re 99.9% running Steam on it and play Steam versions including PS versions with a PS overlay like in Ghost of Tsushima?

 

[Gaelyon]

If I get a machine that can run ALL my xbox content plus steam in my front room and also provides hardware that allows me to get high settings, then it would be a dream come true.

It already exist, it's called a PC. And how MS is supposed to gain money ? You'll get all your games on Steam anyway.

 

[Red5]

Depends on MS approach, if they choose to have a set requirement of hardware that manufacturers have to adhere to it would be more like the 3DO which bombed.

If manufacturers can customize their hardware it would be more like the Steam Machine which also bombed.

I think MS would go with the 3DO approach since it would ensure a single type of hardware that game makers can target.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Sounds like a mess tbh. No mods, higher prices, special versions, not optimized by the devs.

This is a system for xbox die hards, from what I can gather.

Console experience is a must.

I don’t think it will target PC crowd.

I expect value prepositions to be high. AMDs next architecture is rumoured to be complete overhaul with focus on ray tracing and AI. Suppose it will be inside new xbox.

 

[cireza]

Having a console (not a PC, a true console experience) that has all Steam games + an Xbox compatibility layer sounds almost too good to be true. If they can somehow pull this off, it will be fantastic.

 

[FunkMiller]

If someone (anyone) puts out a box that can sit under my TV with parts I can upgrade, I'll fucking buy it. Especially if it's connected to Steam, and allows mods.

 

[Esppiral]

Yeah but is it a Xbox machine if you’re 99.9% running Steam on it and play Steam versions including PS versions with a PS overlay like in Ghost of Tsushima?

If they sell it in a box called Xbox is an Xbox, no matter how you paint it.

 

[coffinbirth]

I personally think if they do it, it will dual boot. Xbox os by default, steam os on a partition.
I think they will still be targeting this as a living room device, so windows is likely out.

Did you really just suggest that Microsoft would ship a consumer facing device running Linux??? WHAAAT???

A Windows device does not need Steam to run pc games. It can have a Steam app if you so desire, but it's not needed.

If anything, going forward, it would be an Xbox/PC dual booting the Xbox OS and Windows 11.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Oh god I hope not. They have basically two options if the rumours are true:

1) Modify the current Xbox OS so that it can include different storefronts like Steam. Let it be Valves and the other publishers problem how they want to handle their customers coming to them through the Xbox OS (think launcher type windows for games like CP2077 or GTA, games that force you to make a choice of some sort before boot up and so on)

2) Install a modified version of plain old Windows 11 on the machine and give it a Microsoft version of Steam BPM

I'd much prefer option 1). This thing won't sell if it doesn't have serious advantages in the convenience department compared to a regular HTPC.

Edit: lol another GAFer wrote almost the exact same thing before me

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I already posted this in another thread but it wouldn't surprise me if next Xbox was PC with slightly customized Windows that would support controllers, have streamlined and integrated driver updates, preinstalled xbox app and steam.

Steam machines failed because they were overpriced pieces of shit. If you want a PC just buy a prebuilt one to your specifications from a reputable shop.

 

[SHA]

I think it's much more than that, if you take all the advantages into account, this thing could be deadly like the og Xbox's true purpose, to build the best pc console ever literally.

 

[IDKFA]

I will actually buy an Xbox for the first time ever. Proud Green rat from then on! But they better not Block PS Games on it.

I already own an Xbox, but main on the PS5.

However, if an Xbox had steam support and allowed me to play games like Dawn of War and Shogun 2 Total War on a console, plus my library of Xbox games.......my PS5 would collect dust.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Lots of people on the console side want to try PC gaming but don’t want to ever touch mouse and keyboard or build a SFF build themselves or pay for a monstrous prebuild.

Without wishing to be argumentative, I don't really understand.

Playing Alan Wake 2 via Steam rather than the Xbox store on a console? Is that PC gaming?

What does trying pc gaming mean?

Afaik, and I may be wrong, PC gaming is desirable for higher frame rates and better image quality. The downside is the hardware required is more expensive. You can't really have the former without the latter. Or am I missing something?

 

[Porticus]

Geez all these people that wants this magical device doesn't know that already exist and is a called Personal Computer, you can assemble it in various forms and sizes, even more mind blowing can be attached to a TV.

 

[hinch7]

Assuming rumors are true. It will be PC, yes. It'll be a painless transition device for those who play on consoles. Consoles basically have similar internals as off the shelf PC parts anyways from AMD and other vendors with only the OS and software differentiating them and perhaps some bespoke tech here and there. In essence there won't be much of a difference, hypothetically if standards of each 'Xbox' machine from each vendor passes QC and performance checks.

 

[THE DUCK]

Did you really just suggest that Microsoft would ship a consumer facing device running Linux??? WHAAAT???

A Windows device does not need Steam to run pc games. It can have a Steam app if you so desire, but it's not needed.

If anything, going forward, it would be an Xbox/PC dual booting the Xbox OS and Windows 11.

No less likely than ms just slapping windows on an xbox machine, it's too user unfriendly for a console.

They will have to have a front end for windows if they aren't going to use Linux Who knows, maybe they are working on a gaming centered os that basically just runs steam and the added function of the pc Xbox store games and pc gamepass. (Others have said this too)

 

[Bojanglez]

Maybe one way leans into PC the other leans into console.

Method 1,
* runs console Xbox OS
* uses a virtual container version of Windows but with full access to the hardware (MS has a ton of hypervisor/virtual PC tech so that should be easy), so you get an exit to desktop and can run Steam but MS provide all the drivers.
* MS sets out the specs for Xbox family performance/hardware tiers and its PC HW partners sell those.

So method 1 is still a console defined by MS but more flexible.

Method 2,
* runs Windows OS like a PC.
* MS goes into full Steam clone mode with a fullscreen and desktop PC client.
* A wider choice of PC hardware can be used by MS and its HW partners.

So method 2 would be very much a Steam Machine style system, but that would be a huge gamble for MS, they would need a near perfect out of the box Steam clone which is something I doubt they can do.

Also they would need to retain back compat with past Xbox library which method 2 might not be able to run so method 1 is the more likely.

I seem to remember that when the Steam Deck came out, there was a "skunkworks" project by a small team at MS that made an optimised interface. I think they may have realised the proliferation of all these windows based deck clones would be helped by that and the logical next step is to also use that in this second scenario. If they have anything about them they will have been refining this for the past 18 months and it will be good to go soon.

 

[SpokkX]

In hope so! I use my pc connected to my tv as a steam box.. driver updates etc could be handles better that standard windows does on a tv. Hopefully the new win/xb-hybrid os (which i expect) can run on any pc