Is the United States defined by Donald Trump?
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I'm definitely not trying to stick it to the United States. Heck, I just proposed to an American, so I'll probably be living there next year. What I don't think American's realize though is that the American equivalent of UK's pork pie, double-decker busses, pubs, and phone boxes are things like Hollywood, fast-food, apple pie, and hip-hop. And right up there with all those things is military and head of state.
Sure, Canada isn't defined by our Prime Minister. However, at no point have we ever been the world's number 1 military and economic power. We aren't the 'face' of a war or conflict. We aren't the person that people look to when brokering peace. That's America. And the face of all those things: the guy that sends in the military, the guy that brokers the peace, the guy with the final say on economic policy, the guy that drops the bombs: that's Trump.
Sorry, it's just the way it is. America is defined by it's leader, since in many ways, America is the leader of the free world.
clevbrowns94
Member
We are a country that shoots itself in the foot constantly. We have declining crime, terrorism relatively under control (better than Europe in this regard), and financial stability for the most part. We don't need to build walls and make ourselves suckers to demagogues/snake oil salesmen like Trump. But we do. A lot of it has to do with racism and partisanship, but also because we are a backwards nation in a lot of ways. From denial of climate change and evolution, no universal health care, a gun obsession, and keeping the death penalty in place. We are the only advanced nation that does all these things. We are also one of the leaders in science in technology at the same time. Ultimately, we are a very confused and contradictory nation. That's how we can go from someone like Obama to someone like Trump in a single election.
Mr. Poolman
Member
Trump is the face of the US to the rest of the world.
The overall feeling on my country is "how stupid have Americans to be, to elect someone so clearly incompetent and evil as Trump for president?"
The overall feeling on my country is "how stupid have Americans to be, to elect someone so clearly incompetent and evil as Trump for president?"
I am an American and this is how my country feels also.
Obliterator
Member
Hell fucking no
clevbrowns94
Member
I make no excuses for my country electing Trump. It's embarrassing. That said, I feel he is part of a bigger trend such as Brexit and the far right gaining in Europe, a trend where white people react to increased immigration, declining birth rates of their race, and terrorism by falling prey to demagogues. The sane parts of the population can't overcome the hysteria either. It's a very alarming trend.
Nobody thinks of the prime minister when visiting other countries and interacting with its people, so no, we are not defined by Trump.
Although it is arguable that we are better defined by the people who voted him in because it makes up such a huge percentage of the area of the country.
Although it is arguable that we are better defined by the people who voted him in because it makes up such a huge percentage of the area of the country.
Abilidebob
Member
The actions of your president that will affect the rest of the world will define the USA, yes.
In a literal sense? No, of course not.
In a practical sense? Yes. Most definitely.
For foreigners, we most certainly have to treat Trump as the face of America. Do you think any possible good could be achieved for countries by ignoring that you are negotiating with Trump and pretending he's Obama? Furthermore, the policies his administration enacts are the realities that visitors will have to face. It's all well and good that the majority of Americans may not want or support a wall or Muslim registry but that does a load of nothing for those that have to cross the wall or are denied entry based on their faith.
Take Canada for instance. People keeping pointing to it as some last bastion of liberalism however it was only last year that the Liberal party took leadership. Before that, there was nine years of the Conservative Party running the country. During that time, the country withdrew from the Kyoto Accord, gutted the census, banned scientists from speaking with the media, implemented security bills that expand government power for making arrests without any oversight etc...
A country, much like a person, is defined by their actions. The country elected Trump regardless of how the system was used. Thus, Trump's actions are the country's actions.
I sympathize with those that did not vote for Trump. They tried to stop an obvious trainwreck. But his supporters or those that couldn't even be bothered to go out and vote at all? Yes, I'd say I have some disdain for them as their choice is most definitely going to have a negative impact on my country and thus my life because of it.
In a practical sense? Yes. Most definitely.
For foreigners, we most certainly have to treat Trump as the face of America. Do you think any possible good could be achieved for countries by ignoring that you are negotiating with Trump and pretending he's Obama? Furthermore, the policies his administration enacts are the realities that visitors will have to face. It's all well and good that the majority of Americans may not want or support a wall or Muslim registry but that does a load of nothing for those that have to cross the wall or are denied entry based on their faith.
Take Canada for instance. People keeping pointing to it as some last bastion of liberalism however it was only last year that the Liberal party took leadership. Before that, there was nine years of the Conservative Party running the country. During that time, the country withdrew from the Kyoto Accord, gutted the census, banned scientists from speaking with the media, implemented security bills that expand government power for making arrests without any oversight etc...
A country, much like a person, is defined by their actions. The country elected Trump regardless of how the system was used. Thus, Trump's actions are the country's actions.
I sympathize with those that did not vote for Trump. They tried to stop an obvious trainwreck. But his supporters or those that couldn't even be bothered to go out and vote at all? Yes, I'd say I have some disdain for them as their choice is most definitely going to have a negative impact on my country and thus my life because of it.
I get frustrated by all the "WHAT ARE YOU DOING, AMERICA?" posts. I understand and share the sentiment 100%, but I did not vote for him.
Is it still on me? Should I and every other not-Trump-voter quit or jobs, drop everything, and devote 100% of our lives to stopping him somehow? What do you want me to do?
Is it still on me? Should I and every other not-Trump-voter quit or jobs, drop everything, and devote 100% of our lives to stopping him somehow? What do you want me to do?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Perception is reality for the human animal.
Trumpism massively emboldens people who believed the US was a conservative white majority where men rule and everyone else is permitted to exist only at their pleasure. Because conservatives control so much of the system, even if they are outnumbered, this systemic advantage works in the favor of those energized by Trumpism.
People are also more psychologically frail and malleable than many like to think. People go along with what the herd is doing, because they don't think about the consequences, or they are anxious about going against the perceived majority. The perceived normal.
Americans in particular live in an extremely nationalistic culture. Americanism is the true religion of the United States. Even benign and relatively moderate Americans are taught to follow the religion of Americanism from childhood. Wave the flag, base your self-image and pride in what America as a whole accomplishes. Don't go against America or you're un-American. The emotional triggers tied to the identity of being an American are deeply embedded.
I mean, for decades, more keen observers have worried about the danger of America becoming a nationalistic empire because it's really primed to be one in a lot of ways. The American collective psyche may be quite friendly to it, an irony considering a major part of the American self-image is "America defends the world from fascism".
Trumpism massively emboldens people who believed the US was a conservative white majority where men rule and everyone else is permitted to exist only at their pleasure. Because conservatives control so much of the system, even if they are outnumbered, this systemic advantage works in the favor of those energized by Trumpism.
People are also more psychologically frail and malleable than many like to think. People go along with what the herd is doing, because they don't think about the consequences, or they are anxious about going against the perceived majority. The perceived normal.
Americans in particular live in an extremely nationalistic culture. Americanism is the true religion of the United States. Even benign and relatively moderate Americans are taught to follow the religion of Americanism from childhood. Wave the flag, base your self-image and pride in what America as a whole accomplishes. Don't go against America or you're un-American. The emotional triggers tied to the identity of being an American are deeply embedded.
I mean, for decades, more keen observers have worried about the danger of America becoming a nationalistic empire because it's really primed to be one in a lot of ways. The American collective psyche may be quite friendly to it, an irony considering a major part of the American self-image is "America defends the world from fascism".
When the majority who voted for Clinton are willing to grab their pitchforks and get trump and the corporations out of office. Until then the millions of racists who voted Trump run this country and are about to destroy everything good its tried to do for the last 100 years.
There should have been nightly riots on the streets in dozens of cities following this election. You don't let an authoritarian take power when you understand history and know how quickly they can destroy any limits on their power.
There should have been nightly riots on the streets in dozens of cities following this election. You don't let an authoritarian take power when you understand history and know how quickly they can destroy any limits on their power.
You really believe that all progress America has made will be destroyed in Trump's 4 years? I can't help but see this belief as gross over-reaction.
The moment Trump even tried an idea that goes against the morals of metropolitan America (the millions of people in cities), it clearly won't be easy.
Is this some kind of meme or inside joke that I'm not aware of because wtf.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
The republicans own every level of governance, there is no one to stop them.
afternoon delight
Member
Yes. The collective WE of America elected him the same way ever other politician was elected. Do you claim FDR? Then you claim this fuckwit as well.
And he certainly reflects the current climate of American Male Domination Pride Herdthink- a mentally challenged, greedy, dangerous bully who preys on the weak and feeble minded.
And he certainly reflects the current climate of American Male Domination Pride Herdthink- a mentally challenged, greedy, dangerous bully who preys on the weak and feeble minded.
Let's take the idea of a Muslim registry. Imagine that Donald Trump pushes that idea forward and Congress passes it.
I still don't see states like my own (California) following this federal mandate. I imagine many other states will not listen to the voice of the federal government, either.
Fulminator
Member
yeah, maybe not to progressive americans, but certainly to the conservative americans, and especially for the rest of the world
No. This level of passion was needed before the election, not after. Should've been protesting strongly to keep a bigot out of office, not the morning after when the fuck up has already happened.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
That would be for the courts to decide, which Trump will have a majority on.
George Washington
Member
Defined, maybe. His decisions will impact the trajectory of this nation. Represents, absolutely. He represents the United States on a global stage. Summits, foreign visits, etc.
As a minority: no.
VincentMatts
Member
Still, it wasn't exactly a landslide in the popular vote either. He lost it but not by an insane amount. Fact is, he represents too many people of that country and thats the biggest problem. The fact that so many people even voted for this incompetent idiot shows me that yes, the US is defined by him. So many voter are convinced by an "attitude" or what they see on TV. Its fucking sad as hell.
Hes exactly what the US deserves.
You actually believe this? It's a belief not based in reality. Someone who didn't vote isn't necessarily OK with a Trump presidency.
VincentMatts
Member
maybe he should have voted then?
Fulminator
Member
it's pretty much tacit approval
even if they aren't ok with a trump presidency, it doesn't mean anything if they didn't vote
The reality is : who does not vote does not change who wins and therefore will be ok with whoever wins.
If the person wasn't ok with trump than the person wasn't ok with hillary either so this means whatever wins don't matter. This case the person made easier for trump to get into power.
They may not be okay with it, but they helped make it happen.
I agree, people should vote.
That doesn't mean their statement that 'becuase 50% of people didn't vote, they are OK with a Trump presidency' is pretty clearly wrong. He's going into office with the highest dissaproval rating in history.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
This bullshit is only true if you are a white guy. Period.
The more extreme the GOP becomes, the more everybody who isn't a white guy suffers whenever they have control.
NHarmonic.
Member
Yet look who was elected.
VincentMatts
Member
Right, but if people arent motivated enough to even go out and vote when they see someone like him running, maybe it doesnt bother them that much then? I think that was the point he was making.
If something really bothers me, ill make sure to do my part. They didnt. That in itself says a lot.
Here in brazil, everyone has to vote.
But there are 2 options who are not "vote for someone specificaly", which is vote "nule" or vote "blank".
Voting Blank means you will give one more vote to whoever wins, meaning increasing the difference so we don't have to vote again if the difference is too small and it is a technical draw.
Voting nule means basicaly not voting .... BUT you have to understand that by voting nule, you increase the percent of people who voted for the majority too, since 3 people voting for X and 2 people voting for Y means on 10 voters with the other 5 people voting on other political parties (brazil has hundreds of those) means that X won by 30% of the voters.... which could mean a technical draw since nobody reached 50%. BUT if 3 people voted for x and 2 people voted for y on a total of 5 people since the other 5 voted nule, this is already 60% percent of possible voters, a clear win.
What I am trying to say is that not voting helps the winning party EVEN in a system with more than 2 serious parties
andythinkpad
Member
Trump destroyed the America "Shining City of the Hill" image. He probably have never heard of the phrase.
I think we need to remind ourselves of the coverage before the election. Most polls and pundits predicted a landslide from Clinton. A lot of people base their information off this, I'm sure. Not to mention the Democrat voting bloc was hardly as energized due to their candidate.
I mean, I agree with your guys base premise that people should vote regardless of the coverage. I disagree that those non-voters are complacent or OK with a Trump presidency.
So basicaly a news covered saying clinton would win made people not vote and trump wins and PEOPLE STILL SAY THAT UNITED STATES ARE NOT DEFINED BY TRUMP'S VICTORY ?
This is the most USA thing in HISTORY
Gotdatmoney
Member
Unless your vote was suppressed (by the GOP) yeah if you didnt vote it means you're cool with Trump.
You have one of the shittiest candidates ever runningforthe highest order and you cant bother voting? That is basically saying "yeah w/e doesnt matter"
Pizza con salsiccia
Banned
No, he does not represent the country.
Just as the idiot who rules my country does not represent France (neither did Sarkozy).
Just as the idiot who rules my country does not represent France (neither did Sarkozy).
KernelPanic
Member
Lol
Angelus Errare
Banned
You know Clinton's popular vote win is the largest margin in US history right?
Lol
Oh that's fucking gold.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
No. Representative Democracies are not really representative of the actual state and will of the people. Most of the presidents of the United States are from a cloth of being representative of the average American. Many where powerful and influential before they became president, and almost all of the presidents have been backed by powerful forces that carried them into power through populism and appealing to moderates.
The United States produces some of the worst villains but also some of the greatest heroes. It comes with the territory of being such a influential country.
The United States produces some of the worst villains but also some of the greatest heroes. It comes with the territory of being such a influential country.
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