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Is there free speech on the internet?

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
More often than not if I express my unfiltered opinion somewhere online, I get warnings or banned. It happens mostly when I go against the cancel culture / SJW nonsense.

It sometimes makes me just want to unplug from the internet, what's the point if you are only allowed to express whatever opinion the platform you are on allows you to express?

So my question is: is there any true free speech on the internet?

And I'm just going by the Oxford definition:

free speech

noun: free speech

the right to express any opinions without censorship or restraint.
 
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AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
The chans are your best bet, but they're a good taste of what (basically) unmoderated internet looks like. Exhausting past the age of 15.
 

BigBeauford

Member
The only disturbing trend I've noticed is how much some enclaves I frequent have been cracking down. Board Game Geek used to be one I often frequented, but comments have been getting nuked if you don't wholly support the premise of the OP.
 

Fbh

Member
Sure, there's plenty of places you can go online where you won't get banned for expressing anti woke/SJW sentiment.
But it's not going to be the big and popular sites. Since almost everything online is expected to be free most sites depend heavily on advertising and they don't want to risk being associated with "negative" concepts.
 

kurisu_1974

Member
There's less of it than in the 90s for sure. Can't imagine being banned on a Boardgame forum for calling a boardgame rule "retarded" back then (I wasn't even talking about people, but about a rule!) but that's where we are today. And that's not even about free speech, that pure policing.
 

BigBooper

Member
There are some places, but even some companies that provide backbone services like DNS will block you if they really want.
 

*Nightwing

Banned
There is a price to pay for everything. You can always say what you like but if it is taboo culturally in your immediate environment you will have consequences to face.

Just the same as if we as a society allow our cultural ideals of personal responsibility and accountability be washed down to where everyone is the victim and free from fault, then the consequence will be most everything said can be misconstrued as being offensive to someone somewhere and hence banable everywhere. I believe this is the argument you are trying to make rather than free speech doesn’t exist, but please correct me if wrong. I don’t want to speak for you.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Jesus Christ... The entitlement.

You are completely free to visit any internet site you wish to. You are completely free to communicate with millions of people. You are completely free to voice your opinions. You are completely free to agree with, or disagree with, any opinion of another person.

You are not completely free to say whatever the fuck you like without consequence, because that's not what free speech is, and never has been.

I really do wish some people would learn what it's actually like to live somewhere without free speech. Go take a lap around China, or North Korea, or many of the middle Eastern countries, then come back and write a thread (and thereby exercising your free speech) about how you now understand what it actually means to have it.
 
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TheMan

Member
Jesus Christ... The entitlement.

You are completely free to visit any internet site you wish to. You are completely free to communicate with millions of people. You are completely free to voice your opinions. You are completely free to agree with, or disagree with, any opinion of another person.

You are not completely free to say whatever the fuck you like without consequence, because that's not what free speech is, and never has been.

I really do wish some people would learn what it's actually like to live somewhere without free speech. Go take a lap around China, or North Korea, or many of the middle Eastern countries, then come back and write a thread (and thereby exercising your free speech) about how you now understand what it means to have it.

Yup. Too many people think that free speech means saying whatever whenever wherever without consequences.
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
Jesus Christ... The entitlement.

You are completely free to visit any internet site you wish to. You are completely free to communicate with millions of people. You are completely free to voice your opinions. You are completely free to agree with, or disagree with, any opinion of another person.

You are not completely free to say whatever the fuck you like without consequence, because that's not what free speech is, and never has been.

I really do wish some people would learn what it's actually like to live somewhere without free speech. Go take a lap around China, or North Korea, or many of the middle Eastern countries, then come back and write a thread (and thereby exercising your free speech) about how you now understand what it actually means to have it.

So opinions about cancel culture aren't part of free speech then?

People who run forums decide what rules they want to have. You agree to abide by those rules when you post there. It’s not an issue of free speech.

Most of the bigger platform have become very strict and very much on the woke side. So the options are becoming more and more limited.
 
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JumpMan1981

Banned
More often than not if I express my unfiltered opinion somewhere, I get warnings or banned. It happens mostly when I go against the cancel culture / SJW nonsense. I know it's because usually people that moderate those internet platforms aren't exactly the people you would want to hang out with in person.

They are the type of people that are fully absorbed in the cancel culture. So you are stepping on their oversensitive toes and they just abuse their "power" and ban you.

Or in other cases because the corporation in control of the platform needs to silence anything controversial to keep advertisers happy.

It makes me just want to unplug from the internet, what's the point even if you are only allowed to express whatever opinion the platform you are on allows you to express?

So, is there any true free speech on the internet?

Not really. Too many people posting on forums want to have some level of control over the conversation.
If you're very opinionated as it is then it's not going to sit well when others have opposite opinions.

Eventually one side has to "win" and has to push the other side out.
Usually with mass banning initially followed by less frequent banning but for less "serious" offenses.

What I have found that no matter where I go on the internet you will always find a handful of users who constantly do things like implying others are racist or sexist and so on. Might be that someone says "I can't wait to play Cyberpunk 2077" and through a series of steps the accusation of "transphobia" appears and suddenly another user gets a ban.

For whatever reason, moderators never seem to see this or acknowledge it. So you have posters who do nothing but bait others into arguments and then go off to the mods to report and report and report. You would think that moderators would notice that every time User X makes a new enemy it's only a matter of time before that person is banned but they never seem to do that.

Maybe the biggest problem is that people you engage with online aren't really your friends and even if you have a nice thing going you can never really just talk openly with each other as it only takes one "off script" comment and that's the relationship or connection over just like that. So you almost feel like you have to walk on eggshells just to keep your access. Especially if you are talking to over people via private chats etc and don't want to just lose all that on a whim.

So not only is there no free speech but people are pushed into being guarded and careful because once you are gone then that's it. Every post becomes a very carefully considered thing that you might even think "I maybe shouldn't even post this, just in case".

People will of course say "don't post anything bad and you won't get banned" but it tends to be the case that those people are the ones going through things with a fine-toothed comb looking for some reason to report and hopefully get a ban.

How many people arrived here because they were banned from ResetEra? How many of those bans were for pretty reasonable posts?

In the end you probably just get a decline in forum use as people feel forced into smaller and smaller splinter groups and forums so that they can just talk to the people they like without worrying about it being shut down suddenly because the community is plagued by a combination of ban baiters and over zealous moderators.
 
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D

Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
When I was in little league a teammate started punching me in the arm and when I said “stop!” he said “it’s a free country!”

So I gave him a bloody nose. He didn’t hit me after that.
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
Not really. Too many people posting on forums want to have some level of control over the conversation.
If you're very opinionated as it is then it's not going to sit well when others have opposite opinions.

Eventually one side has to "win" and has to push the other side out.
Usually with mass banning initially followed by less frequent banning but for less "serious" offenses.

What I have found that no matter where I go on the internet you will always find a handful of users who constantly do things like implying others are racist or sexist and so on. Might be that someone says "I can't wait to play Cyberpunk 2077" and through a series of steps the accusation of "transphobia" appears and suddenly another user gets a ban.

For whatever reason, moderators never seem to see this or acknowledge it. So you have posters who do nothing but bait others into arguments and then go off to the mods to report and report and report. You would think that moderators would notice that every time User X makes a new enemy it's only a matter of time before that person is banned but they never seem to do that.

Maybe the biggest problem is that people you engage with online aren't really your friends and even if you have a nice thing going you can never really just talk openly with each other as it only takes one "off script" comment and that's the relationship or connection over just like that. So you almost feel like you have to walk on eggshells just to keep your access. Especially if you are talking to over people via private chats etc and don't want to just lose all that on a whim.

So not only is there no free speech but people are pushed into being guarded and careful because once you are gone then that's it. Everything post becomes a very carefully considered thing that you might even think "I maybe shouldn't even post this, just in case".

In the end you probably just get a decline in forum use as people feel forced into smaller and smaller splinter groups and forums so that they can just talk to the people they like without worrying about it being shut down suddenly because the community is plagued by a combination of ban baiters and over zealous moderators.

Back in the olden days people would meet up to debate too right. That's where the word forum even came from. I can't imagine people with certain opinions being thrown out there. Then again, people never change so I guess that's exactly what happened.
 
D

Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
Back in the olden days people would meet up to debate too right. That's where the word forum even came from. I can't imagine people with certain opinions being thrown out there. Then again, people never change so I guess that's exactly what happened.
There’s always been an Overton window. If you show up in polite society and start espousing the benefits of the final solution, your ass is getting thrown out for your shitty opinion.
 

JumpMan1981

Banned
Back in the olden days people would meet up to debate too right. That's where the word forum even came from. I can't imagine people with certain opinions being thrown out there. Then again, people never change so I guess that's exactly what happened.
I think you would see some similar behaviors.
People playing the victim. People acting like they are above it all.
People misrepresenting something that was said and trying to use it against the opposition.

There would always still be someone "in charge" and over time they'd have their own little "wormtongue" crew and if you crossed one of the wormtongues then you would end up getting booted out.
 

JumpMan1981

Banned
There’s always been an Overton window. If you show up in polite society and start espousing the benefits of the final solution, your ass is getting thrown out for your shitty opinion.
I would suggest that this is quite rare though and quite obvious.

A few other forums I post on would definitely allow more edgy content but mindless abuse of other posters and outright hateful content is still banned completely.

What seems more likely is that there's a group of posters who will jump in to imply that the targeted party is saying something outside the Overton window when they actually are not and this will end up with the target eating a ban.

Again I would use the example of "excited for Cyberpunk 2077 = excusing transphobia" as a pretty obvious gaming related one that we are all aware of.

You are acting like every person thrown out for their opinion automatically MUST have a shitty opinion. That wouldn't really hold true in practice.

Again, there must be many members on this site who have been banned from ResetEra and are now posting on NeoGAF so they would understand exactly what I mean here since they would have fallen foul of it themselves?
 
D

Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
I would suggest that this is quite rare though and quite obvious.

A few other forums I post on would definitely allow more edgy content but mindless abuse of other posters and outright hateful content is still banned completely.

What seems more likely is that there's a group of posters who will jump in to imply that the targeted party is saying something outside the Overton window when they actually are not and this will end up with the target eating a ban.

Again I would use the example of "excited for Cyberpunk 2077 = excusing transphobia" as a pretty obvious gaming related one that we are all aware of.

You are acting like every person thrown out for their opinion automatically MUST have a shitty opinion. That wouldn't really hold true in practice.

Again, there must be many members on this site who have been banned from ResetEra and are now posting on NeoGAF so they would understand exactly what I mean here since they would have fallen foul of it themselves?
I don’t have the expectation of perfection in moderation or the absence of subjectivity in such decisions. Maybe, sometimes, there will be calls I don’t agree with, but that’s life. Nobody’s rotting in the gulag because they were banned from an Internet forum. And you’re right, there are examples of egregious over moderation, which is why it’s a good thing we can all choose not to be a member of Reee.
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
I don’t have the expectation of perfection in moderation or the absence of subjectivity in such decisions. Maybe, sometimes, there will be calls I don’t agree with, but that’s life. Nobody’s rotting in the gulag because they were banned from an Internet forum. And you’re right, there are examples of egregious over moderation, which is why it’s a good thing we can all choose not to be a member of Reee.

I wasn't talking about reee here though, that cesspool I wouldn't even consider. I meant more in general like comment sections on news websites, reddit, twitter, youtube, fan websites, official gaming forums and so on.
 
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Ionian

Member
I wasn't talking about reee here though, that cesspool I wouldn't even consider. I meant more in general like comment sections on news websites, reddit, twitter, youtube, fan websites, official gaming forums and so on.

Your avatar perfectly fits you.
 
D

Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
I wasn't talking about reee here though, that cesspool I wouldn't even consider. I meant more in general like comment sections on news websites, reddit, twitter, youtube and so on.
Sure, I was responding to another comment, but for those websites people are afforded anonymity and don’t bear any social consequences for shitty behavior. This almost certainly necessitates some amount of moderation, as you’ll always see just endless shittiest of shitty comments on those sites. So those platforms aren’t really analogous to the “forums of olden times” as you never had people just anonymously shit posting from their couch without any consequence for what they say
 
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Coolwhhip

Neophyte
Sure, I was responding to another comment, but for those websites people are afforded anonymity and don’t bear any social consequences for shitty behavior. This almost certainly necessitates some amount of moderation, as you’ll always see just endless shittiest of shitty comments on those sites. So those platforms aren’t really analogous to the “forums of olden times” as you never had people just anonymously shit posting from their couch without any consequence for what they say

I'm not against moderation, there are a lot of idiots, so it's needed. But in a lot of places you get banned for the wrong opinion that's my problem. And what is "wrong" has become a lot broader in the last 5 years.
 
D

Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
I'm not against moderation, there are a lot of idiots, so it's needed. But in a lot of places you get banned for the wrong opinion that's my problem. And what is "wrong" has become a lot broader in the last 5 years.

And in real life you’ll find that certain behaviors and opinions won’t make you a lot of friends either. There’s nothing morally wrong with picking your nose and eating your boogers, but you’ll likely find people avoiding your company if you do that.
 

GeorgioCostanzaX

Gold Member
More followers = more visibility = greater chance of censorship. Average joe still can say whatever they want but they run the risk of something being picked up by the woke mob but even then it’s really only an issue if you have a ton of followers or are a blue check.
 

daveonezero

Banned
Yes. People bitching that they had their content taken down from someone else’s server doesn’t understand how the internet works.

you can be censored by someone else if you don’t give it to them.
Being blocked or banned by one of the sinister 6 tech companies doesn’t mean you were censored. They just don’t like your message.
There are alternatives and they allow you to post anything.

Immutable speech is on the internet. IPFS, BitTorrent and a few other protocols allow data to be exchange freely and it is near impossible to take it down without shutting down the whole network

even then it would exist on individual nodes and smaller networks.
 
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FunkMiller

Member
So opinions about cancel culture aren't part of free speech then?

You are free to say what you like about cancel culture

Do you actually understand what free speech is? Because I’m not sure you do.

Free speech is the ability to state your opinion without being punished for doing so.

Your post about how Rey is a Mary Sue getting deleted is not punishment.
 
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trikster40

Member
The chans are your best bet, but they're a good taste of what (basically) unmoderated internet looks like. Exhausting past the age of 15.
Yeah, I’d never been on a Chan before, but I’m always seeing rumors from 4 Chan, so figured I’d finally see what kind of place it was. Then I gouged my eyes out. I can’t imagine spending any amount of time on that cesspool of a site.
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
You are free to say what you like about cancel culture

Do you actually understand what free speech is? Because I’m not sure you do.

Free speech is the ability to state your opinion without being punished for doing so.

Your post about how Rey is a Mary Sue getting deleted is not punishment.

Don't know what the last part means. But I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying. My posts about cancel culture -are- getting deleted all over the internet
 

Ionian

Member
Don't know what the last part means. But I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying. My posts about cancel culture -are- getting deleted all over the internet

You got cancelled.

Now put on your big-boy pants and venture out into the sunshine.
 
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BigBooper

Member
ITT a bunch of Brits redefine free speech.

People are really trying to muddy the waters on free speech. Ultimately it comes down to government control. Is the government restricting your speech or is another person restricting it? If you shout something idiotic on the street, yea someone may punch you for it, but they would be breaking the law. Is the government punching you though? You simply don't have that protection right now on the internet, because the internet is a collection of private entities, not government. Even if it were government, they might reclassify it somehow to restrict speech like broadcast tv used to. In the end, you can't trust anyone to be consistent.
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
ITT a bunch of Brits redefine free speech.

People are really trying to muddy the waters on free speech. Ultimately it comes down to government control. Is the government restricting your speech or is another person restricting it? If you shout something idiotic on the street, yea someone may punch you for it, but they would be breaking the law. Is the government punching you though? You simply don't have that protection right now on the internet, because the internet is a collection of private entities, not government. Even if it were government, they might reclassify it somehow to restrict speech like broadcast tv used to. In the end, you can't trust anyone to be consistent.

Looks like it. Let's help them:

free speech

noun
noun: free speech

the right to express any opinions without censorship or restraint.
 

Ionian

Member
ITT a bunch of Brits redefine free speech.

People are really trying to muddy the waters on free speech. Ultimately it comes down to government control. Is the government restricting your speech or is another person restricting it? If you shout something idiotic on the street, yea someone may punch you for it, but they would be breaking the law. Is the government punching you though? You simply don't have that protection right now on the internet, because the internet is a collection of private entities, not government. Even if it were government, they might reclassify it somehow to restrict speech like broadcast tv used to. In the end, you can't trust anyone to be consistent.

You call me a Brit? This thread is wild, can't stop laughing at it.
 

FingerBang

Member
I would answer to your question with a *yes. You can go on Twitter right now and find all kinds of opinions, same goes for YT. Yes, those platforms are biased when it comes to modern progressivism, and for them Critical Race Theory and Gender Ideology are basically the gospel. That said, there are plenty of people who day after day fight against them on Twitter/Facebook. Yes, some places on the internet are worse than others, but real censorship is still overall not that big of a deal.

A ton of people complain about censorship, but most of the times they are simply not behaving in a civil matter. It's also true that only one side gets punished for behaving like dicks, but I hope in the future both will be punished. I am absolutely for free speech, but one thing is having it for a group of friend, another is for millions of users.
Those platforms are in it for the money and since governments don't want to regulate them but only punish them when they don't like them, they're forced to self-regulate and err on the side of whatever the current orthodoxy is.

The real issue is how easily crazy activists online with anime avatars can destroy your life for wrong-thinking form the safety of their bedroom. You want free speech? You need to make sure people aren't afraid to speak out against those assholes. Because I can assure you most reasonable people just yell whatever slogans they're asked to because they're afraid of what might happen if they don't. I'm a no one and had to delete all my old accounts and make new ones, all with different names, because a company I was interviewing for found something written by me on my private blog "upsetting" and complained to my employer with the excuse of an informal reference. Funny thing is, the upsetting stuff was in a post about my mental health during lockdown.

You want free speech? Fight to make sure people can't be fired for expressing the wrong opinions. Cause sure as hell that isn't the case right now.

When people complain about not having or are looking for places that allow free speech, they’re basically saying they want to say the n-word without any repercussions.

You are the reason why it's impossible to have conversations anymore.

PS: I'm a liberal
 
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Coolwhhip

Neophyte
When people complain about not having or are looking for places that allow free speech, they’re basically saying they want to say the n-word without any repercussions.

Guess it's time to lock it up. You figured it out. I'm from Europe by the way, we don't obsess about that word here or any words really. That's a very NA thing.
 
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JumpMan1981

Banned
You are free to say what you like about cancel culture

Do you actually understand what free speech is? Because I’m not sure you do.

Free speech is the ability to state your opinion without being punished for doing so.

Your post about how Rey is a Mary Sue getting deleted is not punishment.
Rey is a Mary Sue though and The Last Jedi was a load of shite.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
There is absolutely not.
Even here, you cannot talk about n word, shit on other consoles and post nudes (of yourself that is lol).

That said - this is one of the BEST places to talk freely. Only here I was welcome to hate on state of giantbomb years ago and reeera. Thank you !
 
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