Is Xbox really just a controller now?

Mibu no ookami said:
Let's follow this to it's conclusion then...

If Sony raised prices in every region except the US, that should mean that the PS5 and XSX are the same price in those regions right?
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Dude, I'm not here to play your mental gymnastics. You were wrong about the price increase point, that's all.
 
adamsapple said:
Dude, I'm not here to play your mental gymnastics. You were wrong about the price increase point, that's all.
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Clown Conancon2019 GIF by Team Coco
 
Yes and no.

Yes, people have 'defaulted' to using the Xbox controller for PC gaming*. As a result of a steep decline in console sales, their controller has weirdly become the bright spot for their hardware business. It's the default controller for PC gaming, and through smart TV's having Game Pass/some gaming app, it's fast becoming the default for cloud gaming. I'm guessing this is part of the reason why they release seventy nine new controllers every two weeks.

The no part is, unless something changes, Microsoft are still committed to one more Xbox console generation. Even though it's clear that Xbox is transitioning into a platform and not a specific piece of hardware, there will still be (for now) one more fancy Xbox console. The fat lady is humming, but she hasn't sung yet.

*It's a massive missed opportunity for PlayStation. Billions of dollars (over time) just sitting on the table. It's part of the reason why their push into PC gaming is seen as a half-assed effort by PC gamers. If the DualSense -- the best controller ever made, by far -- can't 'DualSense' on PC without being plugged in or using some questionable third-party app, then it's just not going to gain traction on PC. I would genuinely love to know the thinking behind their lack of investment in this area.
 
I think the 8 bitdo ultimate is a better controller now but Xbox was the best.

I just cant jive with PS controllers they always cramp my hands or have weird bits that dig into your hands for me. The dualsense is almost perfect but still has bits that dig in on the wings and gets uncomfortable after long sessions, for me.
 
Unfortunatecookie said:
Yes and no.

Yes, people have 'defaulted' to using the Xbox controller for PC gaming*. As a result of a steep decline in console sales, their controller has weirdly become the bright spot for their hardware business. It's the default controller for PC gaming, and through smart TV's having Game Pass/some gaming app, it's fast becoming the default for cloud gaming. I'm guessing this is part of the reason why they release seventy nine new controllers every two weeks.

The no part is, unless something changes, Microsoft are still committed to one more Xbox console generation. Even though it's clear that Xbox is transitioning into a platform and not a specific piece of hardware, there will still be (for now) one more fancy Xbox console. The fat lady is humming, but she hasn't sung yet.

*It's a massive missed opportunity for PlayStation. Billions of dollars (over time) just sitting on the table. It's part of the reason why their push into PC gaming is seen as a half-assed effort by PC gamers. If the DualSense -- the best controller ever made, by far -- can't 'DualSense' on PC without being plugged in or using some questionable third-party app, then it's just not going to gain traction on PC. I would genuinely love to know the thinking behind their lack of investment in this area.
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To answer your question, it's because it's not that simple. Everything requires engineering, which requires budgeting, and that's before getting involved in the politics of it.

At the end of the day PlayStation is Sony's #1 priority. That's bringing in way more money than they'll ever get being a gamepad seller on PC. It's no surprise that they don't want to go that far to encourage people to jump to PC over PlayStation, but they have made investments in the PS accessories app on PC.

It's worth keeping in mind that all of this takes time and resources and those resources are finite. Is the bigger priority PC support or working on advancements for Dual Sense 2, which are going to be needed to push PS6 more than ever.

Even if Dual Sense worked 1:1 on PC, the Dual Sense is still more expensive than the Xbox gamepads, so you have to consider that as well. What's by far the best selling gamepad on Amazon right now? The Dual Sense, because of the price cuts. It's no surprise that Sony is still selling Dual Shock 4s, which I'm sure they're selling primarily for PC audiences at this point. If they thought it was worth it, they'd cut the price on these.
 
SpokkX said:
I play only on the couch though so have all my hardware connected to a big screen TV where i spend my time like this:

- 85% Steam PC (9800X3D + 5080)
- 14% Switch (for Nintendo exclusives, soon replaced by Switch 2)
- 1% PS5 (exclusives only, but Sony barely release any good these days, except Astro)

Here is the thing. I ALWAYS play with an Xbox Series Elite Controller on PC. Even in mouse and keyboard games I just use Steam input to map to Xbox Controller (paddles are great here). I have spent countless hours in Total War: Warhammer 3 this way for example.

Basically is spend 85% of my gaming time on and Xbox Controller (in Steam..)
I am actually using all my old Xbox Series controllers even - many games really just feel like high powered Xbox titles, like Doom Dark Ages for example.

.. is this the future of Xbox? A controller? I am fine with this future and hope they continue to make great controllers (that done break as easily...)
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- 90% Xbox Series X
- 10% PS5 Pro
- 0% PC
- 0% Nintendo

^my current use

Is PS, PC and Nintendo still around?.....
 
I got an 8 bit do controller for pc and never looked back. Every xbox one controller I had degraded, soured me from buying xbox ever again. The 360 controller was great too.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
To answer your question, it's because it's not that simple. Everything requires engineering, which requires budgeting, and that's before getting involved in the politics of it.

At the end of the day PlayStation is Sony's #1 priority. That's bringing in way more money than they'll ever get being a gamepad seller on PC. It's no surprise that they don't want to go that far to encourage people to jump to PC over PlayStation, but they have made investments in the PS accessories app on PC.

It's worth keeping in mind that all of this takes time and resources and those resources are finite. Is the bigger priority PC support or working on advancements for Dual Sense 2, which are going to be needed to push PS6 more than ever.

Even if Dual Sense worked 1:1 on PC, the Dual Sense is still more expensive than the Xbox gamepads, so you have to consider that as well. What's by far the best selling gamepad on Amazon right now? The Dual Sense, because of the price cuts. It's no surprise that Sony is still selling Dual Shock 4s, which I'm sure they're selling primarily for PC audiences at this point. If they thought it was worth it, they'd cut the price on these.
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True, it's not as easy as flipping a switch and the controller just works. There's more than likely some engineering challenge that also plays into the DualSense not being 1:1 with PC.

What I'm baffled by is their push for PC gaming not coming with a renewed budget/resource allocation for the DualSense to work -- as seamlessly as possible -- on PC. I could understand Sony looking at the PC hardware market, running their demand and sales projections, and going "Eh, not worth our time and money." Maybe the number of PC gamers who use controllers isn't as high as we think? But then, that presents a growth opportunity; if the numbers don't look sexy, why not invest in getting them to the point of giving their accountants an erection?

If they were willing to bring PSVR2 to PC (albeit at a later date) then full compatibility of the DualSense, with PC, should be on the table. It's by far the best controller ever made. To have people on PC use the inferior Xbox controller to play a PlayStation game, on PC, just seems like a mismatch of decision-making.
 
Unfortunatecookie said:
True, it's not as easy as flipping a switch and the controller just works. There's more than likely some engineering challenge that also plays into the DualSense not being 1:1 with PC.
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I think that's more of a business decision rather than an engineering problem. At the very least you would imagine they could have released a PC Bluetooth adapter specifically for the Dual Sense.

They did this for the Dual Shock 4.

Unfortunatecookie said:
What I'm baffled by is their push for PC gaming not coming with a renewed budget/resource allocation for the DualSense to work -- as seamlessly as possible -- on PC. I could understand Sony looking at the PC hardware market, running their demand and sales projections, and going "Eh, not worth our time and money." Maybe the number of PC gamers who use controllers isn't as high as we think? But then, that presents a growth opportunity; if the numbers don't look sexy, why not invest in getting them to the point of giving their accountants an erection?

If they were willing to bring PSVR2 to PC (albeit at a later date) then full compatibility of the DualSense, with PC, should be on the table. It's by far the best controller ever made. To have people on PC use the inferior Xbox controller to play a PlayStation game, on PC, just seems like a mismatch of decision-making.
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Like I said, it's a business decision. They want the money PC can provide them, but they don't want to remove the premium element of PS5.

They put out a PC dongle for PSVR2, so again, they could have put more effort into Dual Sense if they wanted to. They clearly don't.

Sometimes companies also hold off on doing things so that they have levers to pull at a later date, i.e. in the case of a poor performaning fiscal year. You'll note that the PS5 Pro still doesn't have covers available to purchase. It's a break in case of glass situation.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
I think that's more of a business decision rather than an engineering problem. At the very least you would imagine they could have released a PC Bluetooth adapter specifically for the Dual Sense.

They did this for the Dual Shock 4.



Like I said, it's a business decision. They want the money PC can provide them, but they don't want to remove the premium element of PS5.

They put out a PC dongle for PSVR2, so again, they could have put more effort into Dual Sense if they wanted to. They clearly don't.

Sometimes companies also hold off on doing things so that they have levers to pull at a later date, i.e. in the case of a poor performaning fiscal year. You'll note that the PS5 Pro still doesn't have covers available to purchase. It's a break in case of glass situation.
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Precisely.

If the business decision is to go full-speed ahead in porting content to PC, why not do the same for the controller and it's functionality on PC? As cumbersome as a dongle would be, if it solves the issues with using the DualSense on PC then let's give it a shot.

Giving Xbox a massive head start in this space is translating into cloud gaming and PC controller gaming being defined by the Xbox controller -- a device that is measurably, generations behind what the DualSense can do.

I would looooooooooove to hear their rationale behind not going full-steam-ahead with DualSense on PC. The numbers can't be that unexciting.
 
Unfortunatecookie said:
Precisely.

If the business decision is to go full-speed ahead in porting content to PC, why not do the same for the controller and it's functionality on PC? As cumbersome as a dongle would be, if it solves the issues with using the DualSense on PC then let's give it a shot.

Giving Xbox a massive head start in this space is translating into cloud gaming and PC controller gaming being defined by the Xbox controller -- a device that is measurably, generations behind what the DualSense can do.

I would looooooooooove to hear their rationale behind not going full-steam-ahead with DualSense on PC. The numbers can't be that unexciting.
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I think the business decision is simply they want the PS5 to have advantages over PC.

Even if you get a 5090, you still have to wire to get all the functionality there.

Think it is as simple as that.

Similarly, the VR functionality isn't all there either.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
I think the business decision is simply they want the PS5 to have advantages over PC.

Even if you get a 5090, you still have to wire to get all the functionality there.

Think it is as simple as that.

Similarly, the VR functionality isn't all there either.
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That makes sense. It's still a bad business decision. To give the Xbox controller dominance on PC is nonsensical when your company is also in those markets.

If they weren't porting everything to PC then their strategy would be sensical. But if they want PC gamers to buy PlayStation games, what's the harm in making the DualSense better on PC? If they believe making the DualSense better on PC would chew into their console revenue, then why port PlayStation games to PC in the first place?

Their software port strategy devalues PlayStation consoles. For example, I will have 0 reason(s) to buy a PS6 if I can play PlayStation 6 games on my PC. Maybe you disagree, but if they want new streams of revenue from PC, then they need to take some of that Steam/Epic store revenue and do what you suggested; a dongle/some product that enhances the DualSense on PC.
 
Unfortunatecookie said:
That makes sense. It's still a bad business decision. To give the Xbox controller dominance on PC is nonsensical when your company is also in those markets.

If they weren't porting everything to PC then their strategy would be sensical. But if they want PC gamers to buy PlayStation games, what's the harm in making the DualSense better on PC? If they believe making the DualSense better on PC would chew into their console revenue, then why port PlayStation games to PC in the first place?

Their software port strategy devalues PlayStation consoles. For example, I will have 0 reason(s) to buy a PS6 if I can play PlayStation 6 games on my PC. Maybe you disagree, but if they want new streams of revenue from PC, then they need to take some of that Steam/Epic store revenue and do what you suggested; a dongle/some product that enhances the DualSense on PC.
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Have to look at the whole picture.

  • How much would a full wireless featureset increase DualSense sales on PC?
  • How much would a full wireless featureset devalue the PS5?
  • What is ultimately the more important business venue DualSense PC sales or PS5 sales?
  • They port games, but remember they don't do day 1 for flagship singleplayer releases
    • It's the same general premise
I do think a dongle is a better compromise because it would cost more money. It's a revenue booster at the very least. I think they should have built a better "PS Link" adapter.

If I were in charge of product at PlayStation, that would be a big priority. Take a page out of Apple's playbook. All Sony devices PlayStation or otherwise, should have integrated PS Link capabilities, so you could sync a DualSense with a Sony Bravia TV right out of the box without messing with Bluetooth. Same with Sony headsets both the PlayStation and Sony XM5 headsets.

Similarly a PS Link adapter should allow you to utilize a DualSense wireless with full featureset as well as a Pulse Elite headset.

Sony's attempts at making an ecosystem of products is really early 2000s.

It's crazy that Sony's flagship noise canceling headset can't be used with PS5. So, I think they have bigger issues than the lack of PC support.

Hopefully, they get this right with PS6.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
Have to look at the whole picture.

  • How much would a full wireless featureset increase DualSense sales on PC?
  • How much would a full wireless featureset devalue the PS5?
  • What is ultimately the more important business venue DualSense PC sales or PS5 sales?
  • They port games, but remember they don't do day 1 for flagship singleplayer releases
    • It's the same general premise
I do think a dongle is a better compromise because it would cost more money. It's a revenue booster at the very least. I think they should have built a better "PS Link" adapter.

If I were in charge of product at PlayStation, that would be a big priority. Take a page out of Apple's playbook. All Sony devices PlayStation or otherwise, should have integrated PS Link capabilities, so you could sync a DualSense with a Sony Bravia TV right out of the box without messing with Bluetooth. Same with Sony headsets both the PlayStation and Sony XM5 headsets.

Similarly a PS Link adapter should allow you to utilize a DualSense wireless with full featureset as well as a Pulse Elite headset.

Sony's attempts at making an ecosystem of products is really early 2000s.

It's crazy that Sony's flagship noise canceling headset can't be used with PS5. So, I think they have bigger issues than the lack of PC support.

Hopefully, they get this right with PS6.
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Absolutely.

The dongle is the right decision. If (and this is assuming they don't have another option) a dongle enables the DualSense to be used wirelessly on PC with the same featureset as on console, then they need to make it happen. I cannot for the life of me understand why they're willing to let the Xbox controller be the 'default' for playing their own games on PC.

It's unbelievably bizarre that Sony's XM series are completely unusable on PlayStation. I have two of their headphones (XM4 and XM5) and they're both unusable on PS5 wirelessly. It makes zero sense.
 
DAHGAMING said:
Xbox is more than a controller, its more than the most powerfull console in the world, its more than gamepass, more than games that will power your dreams.

Xbox is a way of life, family, a collection of the most skilled alpha gamers in the world. Microsoft are the greatest and we will follow them into war if called on.
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Calm down, everyone here technically cares about Xbox.
 
Unfortunatecookie said:
Absolutely.

The dongle is the right decision. If (and this is assuming they don't have another option) a dongle enables the DualSense to be used wirelessly on PC with the same featureset as on console, then they need to make it happen. I cannot for the life of me understand why they're willing to let the Xbox controller be the 'default' for playing their own games on PC.

It's unbelievably bizarre that Sony's XM series are completely unusable on PlayStation. I have two of their headphones (XM4 and XM5) and they're both unusable on PS5 wirelessly. It makes zero sense.
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My guess is the low latency wireless functionality isn't included in current model DualSense controllers. You see they're releasing this Defiant Fighting pad that will use PS Link on PS5 and PC.

I'd be interested to know how many devices can connect to one PS Link adapter. We're clearly in early days with PS Link and we've already seen what a shit show the Pulse Elites are. I wonder if people get disconnects with the Pulse Explores too.

Crazy that the XM6 didn't include PS Link, but again, it's probably because it is a shit show. My guess is the fighting stick isn't coming out until 2026 so that they can have time to fix PS Link by then.

Edit: Sony says you can pair up to 8 devices with one adapter. Super interesting that they didn't integrate this into PS5 Slim and PS5 Pro, definitely not ready for prime time.
 
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Pimpbaa said:
It's d-pad fucking sucks. It's objectively far worse than the one they used in the dual shock 4. Absolutely terrible controller to play fighting games or 2D games with.
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I always thought there was some copyright issues around dpads. That's why I thought Nintendo's was great, Sony's was good, and Xboxes sucked. Otherwise they would all just copy the best. Is that not true? If so, Xbox got some dpad splaining to do. WTF even is that clickey bullshit they have going on with that dpad? They have the most antiquated controller and the worst for fighting games and I'm tired of pretending their controller does not suck. Nier Automata is best on my XSX but damn the controller is killing me.

Imagine trying to compete in Tekken or Street Fighter on this thing. I use 1 kontrolfreek medium on the right hand stick which actually upgrades the controller a lot for those with large hands.
 
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