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[gabbo]

Turkey and Israel are definitely not (don't know if you count them), but even so nor are some of the Arab countries like Lebanon.

They may not be burned shells like Iraq or Syria, but let's not act like these place are without their own very serious issues.

 

[Stereogatari]

They may not be burned shells like Iraq or Syria, but let's not act like these place are without their own very serious issues.

Depends on definition of "fucked", but of course I agree.

My main sticking point is that it's entirely possible to live free, pluralistic, Western-style liberal lifestyles in Israel and Turkey, I think a lot of people get the wrong idea at how "fucked" these countries are when all they read are Erdogan's ridiculous statements for instance.

These places have plenty of political issues with over-zealous conservative and right wing elements within their societies, though hell couldn't the same be said of America too?

Like let me put it like this. The majority of Turkey's and Israel's populations (not sure about Lebanon) can talk about having "first world problems" just like Western people. I wouldn't call these places "fucked".

 

[gabbo]

Depends on definition of "fucked", but of course I agree.

My main sticking point is that it's entirely possible to live free, pluralistic, Western-style liberal lifestyles in Israel and Turkey, I think a lot of people get the wrong idea at how "fucked" these countries are when all they read are Erdogan's ridiculous statements for instance.

These places have plenty of political issues with over-zealous conservative and right wing elements within their societies, though hell couldn't the same be said of America too?

Like let me put it like this. The majority of Turkey's and Israel's populations (not sure about Lebanon) can talk about having "first world problems" just like Western people. I wouldn't call these places "fucked".

True enough. I'd say Lebanon is somewhere between the two types

 

[SapientWolf]

Saddam was a big evil asshole too, but US had no right to invade the country and take him down.

Other countries in the region requested US intervention during the Persian Gulf War. He was a serious threat to the stability of surrounding nations. Even Iraqis didn't want Saddam in power. If things went to hell and the US did nothing then fingers would be pointed anyway. The mistake was leaving Iraq before a stable government was established, although the US was pretty much kicked out.

That part of the world has been under the shadow of brutal sectarian violence for centuries. The shit stain known as ISIS will eventually be wiped out, but someone else will replace them. The environment that created them still exists. You can't kill an ideology with bombs.

 

[nelsonroyale]

This group has been born under extreme conditions and as such manifest that extreme degredation. Pretty disgusting.

 

[liger05]

The first Western journalist in the world to be allowed extensive access to Isis territories in Syria and Iraq has returned from the region with a warning: the group is “much stronger and much more dangerous” than anyone in the West realises.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...--and-this-is-what-he-discovered-9938438.html

 

[Always-honest]

Poor ISIS.. Women rather die than to be with them.
Fucking monsters.

 

[warthog]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...--and-this-is-what-he-discovered-9938438.html

Time to kick these bastards under the ground where they belong.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/12/kurdish-fighters-move-isil-mosul-hub-2014122154534724406.html

 

[Miles Quaritch]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...--and-this-is-what-he-discovered-9938438.html

He said the view that kept being repeated was that Isis want to “conquer the world” and all who do not believe in the group’s interpretation of the Koran will be killed. The only other religions to be spared, Todenhöfer said, were the “people of the book” – Jews and Christians.

Huh.

Anyway, in an interesting contrast, two ex British soldiers who were fighting alongside the Iraqi Kurds say the exact opposite and that they aren't as strong as people have been led to believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogSNelRv7pc

Who to believe?

 

[Casimir]

They may not be burned shells like Iraq or Syria, but let's not act like these place are without their own very serious issues.

You're right. Lebanon has problems with christian terrorists among others.