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[ReplacementPelican]

I think that this is the best way. We can provide them with air support and what not, but the main operations have to be carried out by middle eastern powers.

Reasonable enough view to have, I'd agree.

Islamic state say they are taking these actions as revenge for the bombings and loss of their people. Stop killing them, stop supporting corrupt puppet governments and they won't hate you so much.

You think it is this simple? Whilst that may have been the starting point for many radical ideologies and the number of people who have joined then do you perhaps think that saying by adopting non-interventionist policies when it is arguably already too late that we could be making the situation worse?

Support the official armies of these middle eastern countries despite their corruption, don't support a particular government or groups support the armies, Iraq is a big example of how dismantling the army led to the vacuum that created ISIS. The prominent demand of the people in the Middleast now is not freedom, its safety.

And do you feel that this safety is to be provided only by official armies and not by foreign coalition forces?

 

[Sayad]

A bit late, but...

Gamal Sultan an Egyptian news reporter and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood expresses his approval on killing in a tweet 15 min ago

Couldn't believe that someone in Egypt would do this publicly(especially a Muslim Brotherhood member since he'd be giving the government an excuse to arrest him) so I looked it up:
https://twitter.com/GamalSultan1/status/567043701311303680

I assume that's the tweet you're talking about. Tweet basically says:
Lest we forget, Ahmed Gaddaf Al-Dam, a member of Gaddafi regime who live in Cairo under police protection: I support ISIS from all my heart and its men are pure.

The guy is not supporting ISIS, he's quoting an ex Gaddafi regime member who's under Egypt's protection saying he support ISIS. And he's obviously doing so to criticize the Egyptian government. Looking at the rest of his twitter feed, what you said couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[aliengmr]

I dont believe in that "let the middle east figure it out" talk.

I believe we should destroy them while they are still "small".
ISIS is an ambitious group, shit they want fucking statehood, lets get rid of them before they run a country and its tougher to get rid of them.

Can't destroy an idea. We go in and all does is give the Middle East an out, so they can go back to quietly supporting these guys when it suits them.

The Middle East has to fight this. They have to solve this problem.

And becoming a country only makes them easier to kill. The UN will never grant them shit and the bigger they get, the bigger the threat they become. Jordan and Egypt are starting to feel it. The Muslim world is starting to feel it. ISIS ain't pulling punches, eventually the the Middle East will fight them.

Don't forget the civilians in ISIS controlled territory. Part of having your own territory is having to police the masses. At the rate ISIS is going they are going to have a hard time doing that. The more barbaric they become the less appealing they become to support.

We go in and we lose. ISIS is killing itself by acting this way. Fighting the US would only give them legitimacy they don't deserve.

 

[Heisenberg]

Can't destroy an idea. We go in and all does is give the Middle East an out, so they can go back to quietly supporting these guys when it suits them.

The Middle East has to fight this. They have to solve this problem.

And becoming a country only makes them easier to kill. The UN will never grant them shit and the bigger they get, the bigger the threat they become. Jordan and Egypt are starting to feel it. The Muslim world is starting to feel it. ISIS ain't pulling punches, eventually the the Middle East will fight them.

Don't forget the civilians in ISIS controlled territory. Part of having your own territory is having to police the masses. At the rate ISIS is going they are going to have a hard time doing that. The more barbaric they become the less appealing they become to support.

We go in and we lose. ISIS is killing itself by acting this way. Fighting the US would only give them legitimacy they don't deserve.

Great post.

 

[Betty]

Can't destroy an idea. We go in and all does is give the Middle East an out, so they can go back to quietly supporting these guys when it suits them.

The Middle East has to fight this. They have to solve this problem.

And becoming a country only makes them easier to kill. The UN will never grant them shit and the bigger they get, the bigger the threat they become. Jordan and Egypt are starting to feel it. The Muslim world is starting to feel it. ISIS ain't pulling punches, eventually the the Middle East will fight them.

Don't forget the civilians in ISIS controlled territory. Part of having your own territory is having to police the masses. At the rate ISIS is going they are going to have a hard time doing that. The more barbaric they become the less appealing they become to support.

We go in and we lose. ISIS is killing itself by acting this way. Fighting the US would only give them legitimacy they don't deserve.

I agree and like to add that the last time we went to war it caused a recession and a ton of debt, the Middle East should solve it's own problems, our servicemen and women shouldn't have to die for something those in the Middle East can fix themselves.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

Fuck Turkey. Stupid cunts sat at their border and did nothing while ISIS besieged that Kurdish town.

Pretty much this.

Turkey is quite happy with sitting back and letting others fight battles for them. Honestly it makes no difference to them if ISIS win as they supported them at the start, and still do.

Bingo.

Jahbat Al Nusra, Muslim Brotherhood etc. etc. are the same and follow the same Sunni ideology as ISIS.

The only difference is ISIS has had a bit more success for various reasons but whether Al Qaeda in Iraq or the Muslim Brotherhood they all follow the same ideology of hatred against those who don't follow their religion. Christian? Kill him, or maybe we'll negotiate a tax deal after we take your wife and daughters. Shia? Off with his head. Gay? Throw him off a building.

I was called a bigot last year for calling out the Muslim Brotherhood. They are one in the same as ISIS in view and ideology. Hopefully the Egyptian military continues to hunt them because radical Islam is a threat to all secular societies and all religious minorties.

Give the Muslim Brotherhood this power in Egypt and Christian Coptics are will follow the same fate as evident in tweets from high ranking members justifying these actions.

And this.

Problem is though, these groups aren't the only issue.

The countries in the ME including Saudi Arabia/Pakistan etc all have their own agenda. They believe their view of Islam is the only correct one to have and for that the others must die.

The saudi's disgust me and I'm sickened that our governments actually side with them when they and Pakistan actively encourage terrorism and export the seed of terror all around the ME to suit their own agenda.

If the west does decide to go boots down I don't think many will disagree with it. Although most of us don't want to do so I think most understand that it's a necessary evil.

Problem with going boots down however is what will it achieve? If anything, if ISIS truly want a fight with wester soldiers, it may make them all gather go toe to toe with the west, which would be best case scenario and allow us to bait and switch our troops with bombs where they're gathered.

Realistically though, That won't happen. ISIS will stay mixed in with innocents which is their biggest defense and survival method.

At which point do we say okay we're never going to root them all out and totally pull out again which means it would've all been a waste of time/money and lives. Or do we go in bombs blazing and kill untold thousands of innocents along with achieving our goals against ISIS?

Ultimately we have no choice either way which will protect innocent lives and no choice to defeat them by using boots down. The only real option there is, is to let them collapse from
Inside and if they expand enough, hope that the surrounding countries sort them out.

If this dos not happen and ISIS were to take massive swathes of the ME with an eye on Europe, then that would be the start of WWIII. Especially if they got a hold of nuclear or chemical weapons.

 

[m_shortpants]

Seeing these pictures and videos, it's almost as if they want the attention from media and the west particularly.

I can't understand why. It's mind boggling to me. Typically regimes try and hide their atrocities.

 

[jonno394]

Seeing these pictures and videos, it's almost as if they want the attention from media and the west particularly.

I can't understand why. It's mind boggling to me. Typically regimes try and hide their atrocities.

Many believe it's because they want a war. They're trying to goad the West in to putting feet on the ground. I can't understand why other than the fact They want to kill Western soldiers.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Seeing these pictures and videos, it's almost as if they want the attention from media and the west particularly.

I can't understand why. It's mind boggling to me. Typically regimes try and hide their atrocities.

They want to know how much they can get a way with before somebody steps in.

Plus recruiting other extremist muslims that support their view of islam around the world.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Many believe it's because they want a war. They're trying to goad the West in to putting feet on the ground. I can't understand why other than the fact They want to kill Western soldiers.

They've tried and have gotten their asses kicked.

They don't stand a chance against an actual military. We've seen what happens when they fight actual trained and/or well equipped personnel. They get demolished.

The second boots hit the ground and they start losing numbers, they will be cowards and disperse into the civilian crowd and wage a guerilla war which mean them blowing themselves up and usually taking a lot of civilians with them.

They are cowards and will not fight a war.

 

[NastyBook]

Depressing, deplorable shit. R.I.P. to the victims. WTF is wrong with people like this?

 

[Nephtis]

Honestly, don't bother jailing these guys. Just kill them on sight.

I think this is the first time I've felt I'd willingly turn a blind eye if anyone went after these guys with total disregard with the geneva conventions.

and that's a scary though :\

 

[m_shortpants]

Many believe it's because they want a war. They're trying to goad the West in to putting feet on the ground. I can't understand why other than the fact They want to kill Western soldiers.

They want to know how much they can get a way with before somebody steps in.

Plus recruiting other extremist muslims that support their view of islam around the world.

I could understand the recruitment, as sick as that is, but other than that I just cannot understand their motivations. It literally makes no sense. They will lose against any army that raises their banners against them.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

And do you feel that this safety is to be provided only by official armies and not by foreign coalition forces?

How long does a foreign army needs to stay in different country and how much cost in lives and money will foreign countries will sustain?
Making agreements with the local army and supporting it is much more beneficial for all parties, at least armies has a bounded role but militias are a grey zone that are uncontrollable and are not obligated by any international law.

 

[Bollocks]

I always wondered where do they get the orange jumpsuits? also why orange? looks like inmates held in an american prison

 

[m_shortpants]

I always wondered where do they get the orange jumpsuits? also why orange? looks like inmates held in an american prison

Guantanamo, specifically. I have a feeling they do that on purpose.

 

[justjohn]

Remember when we removed gaddafi and we were told it was good for the humanity and the Libyan people? One of the safest most prosperous countries in Africa has now been reduced to this? I'm sure ISIS would still have been able to do this with gaddafi in charge.

Not only that the country has now also become a route used by tens of thousands of illegal immigrants who use it to cross to Europe every year and thanks to unscrupulous human traffickers end up drowning in the Mediterranean.

 

[Jburton]

I could understand the recruitment, as sick as that is, but other than that I just cannot understand their motivations. It literally makes no sense. They will lose against any army that raises their banners against them.

In a conventional sense they most certainly lose, but like Iraq and Afghanistan, a long and protracted insurgency would take place and any Army going there will find it very hard to leave easily and cleanly.

Years after Afghanistan the Taliban are strong and are essentially a shadow government in the country.

As for Iraq, just look at it, it has split in three along sectarian lines with the strongest Islamic fundamentalist group in modern times residing there.


I don't think anything is as simple as it seems, with disruption in many Islamic areas, IS is trying to become the number 1 brand for jihadis around the world, through the use of awful acts to grap world attention, awful acts wrapped up in some absolutely high end propaganda packages, they seem to be in the business of setting up franchises around the Muslim world.


To us in the West, none of their actions makes sense and only seem abhorrent, which they absolutely are, but their expanse into different regions displays there is a receptive audience for their madness.

 

[ambientric]

Can't destroy an idea. We go in and all does is give the Middle East an out, so they can go back to quietly supporting these guys when it suits them.

The Middle East has to fight this. They have to solve this problem.

And becoming a country only makes them easier to kill. The UN will never grant them shit and the bigger they get, the bigger the threat they become. Jordan and Egypt are starting to feel it. The Muslim world is starting to feel it. ISIS ain't pulling punches, eventually the the Middle East will fight them.


Don't forget the civilians in ISIS controlled territory. Part of having your own territory is having to police the masses. At the rate ISIS is going they are going to have a hard time doing that. The more barbaric they become the less appealing they become to support.

We go in and we lose. ISIS is killing itself by acting this way. Fighting the US would only give them legitimacy they don't deserve.

Bingo. Great post and articulated much better than a similar post of mine, from the last Isis atrocity.

Isis is aching/deliberately goading, seeking increased western intervention to provide the legitimacy they crave.

Western boots on the ground is exactly what they want. Expect the atrocities to ramp up as they seek it.

 

[DrFurbs]

The US should threaten to pull all economic and military aid to it's allies in the middle East unless they man up and start fighting DARESH proper.

 

[Jburton]

The US should threaten to pull all economic and military aid to it's allies in the middle East unless they man up and start fighting DARESH proper.

Did it take you long to think up that idea?

To call it dumb would be a disservice to the word.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Bingo. Great post and articulated much better than a similar post of mine, from the last Isis atrocity.

Isis is aching/deliberately goading, seeking increased western intervention to provide the legitimacy they crave.

Western boots on the ground is exactly what they want. Expect the atrocities to ramp up as they seek it.

Wait, wasn't Al Qaida caused by those same Western boots on the ground in sacred Arabia ?

 

[Prine]

What's up with calling them DAESH?

Just to appease some who think it's a misrepresentation. ISIS is pretty much exactly what their moniker states. They are literal.

Nope. They are rejected by the Muslim world hence are called DAESH. Muslims dont believe their state is Islamic (they go against it), they dirty that term. Islamic news agencies, in all languages (from Urdu to Arabic) refer to them as DAESH

 

[DrFurbs]

Did it take you long to think up that idea?

To call it dumb would be a disservice to the word.

Bestow us with your wisdom on how you think this should be resolved.

 

[Kathian]

Good to see quick action from Egypt.

 

[Chittagong]

I wonder, when everything is said and done, will ISIS insignia be outlawed like happened with nazi insignia?

 

[Jburton]

Bestow us with your wisdom on how you think this should be resolved.

Don't need a good idea to spot a bad one, also this problem can't be resolved with a one sentence idea.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Egypt and France are preparing an International response toward what happened.

Egypt are conducting strikes against Islamic Militias in Libya with the help of Libyan Army Airforce.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Remember when we removed gaddafi and we were told it was good for the humanity and the Libyan people? One of the safest most prosperous countries in Africa has now been reduced to this? I'm sure ISIS would still have been able to do this with gaddafi in charge.

Not only that the country has now also become a route used by tens of thousands of illegal immigrants who use it to cross to Europe every year and thanks to unscrupulous human traffickers end up drowning in the Mediterranean.

The west likes to create problems for the middle east to solve themselves. Its like an exam.

Western politics: Stir shit up then tell em to take care of it.

 

[Gorger]

Many believe it's because they want a war. They're trying to goad the West in to putting feet on the ground. I can't understand why other than the fact They want to kill Western soldiers.

They are already getting their ass beaten by Kurdish fighters. If you theoretically added a huge ground force coalition of coordinated professional trained western soldiers in the mix, they would start losing ground extremely quickly. Why would they risk their Caliphate to certain defeat just for the off-chance to kill a few western soldiers?

 

[Interceptor]

Can't destroy an idea. We go in and all does is give the Middle East an out, so they can go back to quietly supporting these guys when it suits them.

The Middle East has to fight this. They have to solve this problem.

And becoming a country only makes them easier to kill. The UN will never grant them shit and the bigger they get, the bigger the threat they become. Jordan and Egypt are starting to feel it. The Muslim world is starting to feel it. ISIS ain't pulling punches, eventually the the Middle East will fight them.

Don't forget the civilians in ISIS controlled territory. Part of having your own territory is having to police the masses. At the rate ISIS is going they are going to have a hard time doing that. The more barbaric they become the less appealing they become to support.

We go in and we lose. ISIS is killing itself by acting this way. Fighting the US would only give them legitimacy they don't deserve.

Almost a great post. I agree with most of it, but you made a crucial mistake. You theory would work in a case where IS would be driven by a political agenda, they are not. They already have the most efficent way policing the masses. A strict relgion that occupies every minute of your day, every thought, every action. Sadly they won´t kill themselfs, as much as i wish for it. They will grow.

Nope. They are rejected by the Muslim world hence are called DAESH. Muslims dont believe their state is Islamic (they go against it), they dirty that term. Islamic news agencies, in all languages (from Urdu to Arabic) refer to them as DAESH

Closing the eyes and pretending they don´t represent Islam will not solve this problem.

 

[Stereogatari]

Fuck Turkey. Stupid cunts sat at their border and did nothing while ISIS besieged that Kurdish town.

It's so simple and easy in your mind isn't it. Turkey doesn't have to do the bidding of anyone. Boots on the ground in Syria is a big political deal and funnily enough no one has done it yet. Do you understand the implications of it? Turkey VS Syria war? Fuck that. Not to mention the complexities added by the Turkish-PKK conflict.

And did nothing is an exaggeration. They allowed Northern Iraqi Peshmerga to travel across Turkey to get there and the Turkish army helped some Peshmerga with training as well.

But don't let me get in the way of the "evil Turks want to kill Kurds" narrative, peddled by people who have no nuance in Turkish geopolitics beyond what they've been drip fed by the World News media.

Also hilarious how you decide to say "Fuck Turkey" in particular and leave Israel out of it.

 

[Jburton]

Egypt and France are preparing an International response toward what happened.

Egypt are conducting strikes against Islamic Militias in Libya with the help of Libyan Army Airforce.

All Islamic Militias?

Bit dangerous for external involvement in a country that is fractured, no group can claim to be reprsentitive of the country.


This and other actions have a chance to destabilise the entire region.

I understand actions against IS, anything else might do more harm to an already broken situation.

 

[Soph]

But don't let me get in the way of the "evil Turks want to kill Kurds" narrative, peddled by people who have no nuance in Turkish geopolitics beyond what they've been drip fed by the World News media.

So Turks trained some Kurds and send them off like lambs to the slaughter? If Turkey really supported them they'd wipe these asswipe ISIS out of Kurdistan and gave their own Kuridsh people a home to live in. Turkey spents a lot of money on military and is by far the strongest country in the region, they can do this easily. Would solve a whole lot of problems (and open up a can of more shit). At least the Kurds'll be free.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Rumor: Russia declared full support for the Egypt against their war against terrorism.

 

[Jburton]

So Turks trained some Kurds and send them off like lambs to the slaughter? If Turkey really supported them they'd wipe these asswipe ISIS out of Kurdistan and gave their own Kuridsh people a home to live in. Turkey spents a lot of money on military and is by far the strongest country in the region, they can do this easily. Would solve a whole lot of problems (and open up a can of more shit). At least the Kurds'll be free.

Your post is very naive and outside reality.

The Kurds are a useful buffer for Turkey and while Turkey may help enough to keep them around, they will not empower them or give up territory.

Secondly, I don't think it is going to be so easy to dislodge IS.

America in Afghanistan and Iraq could not completely remove Taliban / Islamist militias, in fact the prospered in a perverse way and the Americans are much more powerful militarily than Turkey.

 

[Jburton]

Rumor: Russia declared full support for the Egypt against their war against terrorism.

Sounds like a power move rather than Russia really caring.

 

[Stereogatari]

So Turks trained some Kurds and send them off like lambs to the slaughter? If Turkey really supported them they'd wipe these asswipe ISIS out of Kurdistan and gave their own Kuridsh people a home to live in. Turkey spents a lot of money on military and is by far the strongest country in the region, they can do this easily. Would solve a whole lot of problems (and open up a can of more shit). At least the Kurds'll be free.

Yes master America, anything for you my Western Capitalist overlords *bows.

 

[Soph]

Your post is very naive and outside reality.

The Kurds are a useful buffer for Turkey and while Turkey may help enough to keep them around, they will not empower them or give up territory.

Secondly, I don't think it is going to be so easy to dislodge IS.

America in Afghanistan and Iraq could not completely remove Taliban / Islamist militias, in fact the prospered in a perverse way and the Americans are much more powerful militarily than Turkey.

I wouldn't say my post is being naive, trying to steer the discussion in ways to get to new venue's knowledge is one thing I really like doing, putting another "outside of reality" post among all these others in this thread doesn't necessarily undermine that view. Reason why I brought up the Kurds, is because the only way of reasonably defeating the ISIS, at least on a regional level, is supporting the citizens of country which has borders inside current ISIS territory.

So yeah what countries do we have?
- Syrians? What Syrians, it's an uncohesive mess, there's nothing to gain here
- Iraq, already doing exactly that, Army of Iraq is fighting, while we're bombing.
- Kurdistan, which holds territories in Turkey, Iraq and Syria and thus in ISIS have a cohesive form of government, an own army and the will to fight for what is rightfully theirs. Turkey should drop the Age of Empires mentality, grant these people independence and hey, now the kurds have something real to fight for, they will conquer back the territories taken by ISIS, their Kurdish homelands. Bingo, we ought to support these folks.

 

[Ikael]

Seeing these pictures and videos, it's almost as if they want the attention from media and the west particularly.

I can't understand why. It's mind boggling to me. Typically regimes try and hide their atrocities.

They're trying to bait the west into yet another proacted, expensive land occupation. They know that they can't do shit outside their hardcore sunni neighbourghood (no military projection cappabilities or whatsoever) so they're trying for us to come there instead, where they would be at full force and count with the aid of the (sunni) locals.

Considering that Egypt killed many of it's Muslim Brotherhood members, I wouldn't say Egypt has cares especially about it's Muslim members.

Gamal Sultan an Egyptian news reporter and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood expresses his approval on killing in a tweet 15 min ago

Fuck that "Muslim brotherhood are moderate islamists" revisionist, dishonest crap. They're ISIS's deformed, emasculated cousins, every bit as fanatical and bigoted as they are, lack of decapitations nonwithstanding. I have not yet forgot about Muslim Brotherhood tourists massacres, either.

 

[Oriel]

I should have elaborated and this will now seem like I'm moving the goalposts but I promise I'm not.

When Yugoslavia was still stable before anybody had seceeded yet, if the West went in fully with boots on the ground to try and create a democratic state and forcibly remove their rulers...I think the Balkans would be an Iraq/Syria-like mess today.

As it happened Yugoslavia organically broke down and NATO/UN intervened, but that kind of intervention was nothing compared to the invasion of Iraq.

Maybe my analogy is too crazy and too far, but my central point is that it's better for countries to organically develop civil societies and liberties and such, rather than the West forcing it on them via colonial-like methods.

Turkey is an example I like to cite. It democratised on its own terms after defeating Western attempts at colonisation and turned out to be the most stable and Westernised Middle Eastern nation (Israel withstanding). If Turkey had been colonised and had Western culture forced on them by their Western overlords then I don't think it'd have developed as well as it did.

There was nothing "organic" about the breakdown of Yugoslavia. You had the complete destruction of the federal state in a very short space of time; with its components engaged in bloody war against one another that did not get resolved until the international community acted to impose peace from the end of a gun. It took direct NATO intervention (airstrikes AND boots on the ground) to resolve that conflict.

Sometimes intervention IS necessary. With Iraq there's every likelihood the country would have devolved into bloody sectarian warfare anyway after Saddam's death/ousting. Countries with these sorts of strongmen tyrants typically don't have stable enough government institutions to continue functioning after the removal of the country's authoritarian ruler like Gaddafi, Ceasescu, Tito, etc.

It's more than probable that the West would have been picking up the pieces in Iraq had Saddam remained in power and the Arab Spring spread there.

 

[Oriel]

Boots on the ground would only give IS an erection. Recruiting would be bolstered by the presence of American soldiers and other terrorist groups might take the opportunity to attack those soldiers.

Countries in the region will need to provide the ground troops; the U.S. should stick to air support.

As we've seen Arab countries are fucking useless when it comes to military ops. Jordan has provided air assets in the bombing campaign against IS but they would be hesitant to send its own ground troops across the border into Syria. Who else would step up?

Iraq? Too busy in its own country.
Lebanon? Ditto.
Saudi? Lol.
Turkey? Double lol.

Iran?! Actually they're already in Syria and Iraq fighting IS ironically enough. but they're only small IRGC units who spend more time fighting alongside Hezbollah and Assad's forces against moderate Syrian rebels.

If you want to get the job done properly then you need Western forces sent in to occupy the country. It won't be a rerun of the Iraq War for the simple reason there isn't any safe haven for these Islamoterrorists to mount attacks from.

During the US occupation Islamic State's predecessor Al Qaeda in Iraq was able to use Syrian territory to plot attacks on coalition forces. This time no such safe haven would exist....IF the West chose to go in and occupy Syria (which is probably the only real way to clear the region of these Islamobarbarians, as well as Assad's genocidal regime).

 

[Peco]

just saw the video on youtube, they said they will conquer rome allah willing.

:\

Holy shit we're fucked

 

[Jburton]

I wouldn't say my post is being naive, trying to steer the discussion in ways to get to new venue's knowledge is one thing I really like doing, putting another "outside of reality" post among all these others in this thread doesn't necessarily undermine that view. Reason why I brought up the Kurds, is because the only way of reasonably defeating the ISIS, at least on a regional level, is supporting the citizens of country which has borders inside current ISIS territory.

So yeah what countries do we have?
- Syrians? What Syrians, it's an uncohesive mess, there's nothing to gain here
- Iraq, already doing exactly that, Army of Iraq is fighting, while we're bombing.
- Kurdistan, which holds territories in Turkey, Iraq and Syria and thus in ISIS have a cohesive form of government, an own army and the will to fight for what is rightfully theirs. Turkey should drop the Age of Empires mentality, grant these people independence and hey, now the kurds have something real to fight for, they will conquer back the territories taken by ISIS, their Kurdish homelands. Bingo, we ought to support these folks.

Kurds have lost very little territory to IS, most of the territory IS inhabit are Sunni majority territories inside Iraq and Syria.

Before IS became the focal point of this, the current scenario in Iraq was a more general uprising of the Sunni people / tribes against the Shia led government that had discriminated against them and supported Shia militias and deathsquads.


Some of the tribes are turning against IS because of what has occurred following the action, but believe another settlement that imposes another secteria Shia government on the Sunni will lead to another uprising at some point.

Iraq is split almost exactly along religious / ethnic lines.


The only way to really defeat IS is to remove the causes of conflict and the political vacuum in which they grow.

Bolster and strengthen an alternative Sunni leadership and militia and create a political settlement that gives fair and representative government to all groups within Iraq, not just the oil rich and majority holding Shia.


Kurds and Shia invading Sunni territories will have the opposite effect and will be viewed as land grab by the Sunni populace.

 

[Mendrox]

They want to conquer Rome? Nice try.

Can these people please finally go away? They just kill people and have fun... I don't want to watch the video, but rest in peace human brothers! Nobody should have to die.

 

[Funky Papa]

just saw the video on youtube, they said they will conquer rome allah willing.

:\

They also claim they want to "retake" Spain.

And anybody who believes in either scenario is a complete fool.

 

[Jburton]

As we've seen Arab countries are fucking useless when it comes to military ops. Jordan has provided air assets in the bombing campaign against IS but they would be hesitant to send its own ground troops across the border into Syria. Who else would step up?

Iraq? Too busy in its own country.
Lebanon? Ditto.
Saudi? Lol.
Turkey? Double lol.

Iran?! Actually they're already in Syria and Iraq fighting IS ironically enough. but they're only small IRGC units who spend more time fighting alongside Hezbollah and Assad's forces against moderate Syrian rebels.

If you want to get the job done properly then you need Western forces sent in to occupy the country. It won't be a rerun of the Iraq War for the simple reason there isn't any safe haven for these Islamoterrorists to mount attacks from.

During the US occupation Islamic State's predecessor Al Qaeda in Iraq was able to use Syrian territory to plot attacks on coalition forces. This time no such safe haven would exist....IF the West chose to go in and occupy Syria (which is probably the only real way to clear the region of these Islamobarbarians, as well as Assad's genocidal regime).

No way the invasion and occupation of Syria is not met with fanatical opposition by the Sunni population in general, never mind Hezbollah and others.


And occupying Syria does not stop groups operating in Iraq, your simplistic interpretation that all actions where launched and logistics solely occurred in Syria is nonsense.

Whoever entered would not be able to just stride in and out

 

[MisterFalcon]

Bolster and strengthen an alternative Sunni leadership and militia and create a political settlement that gives fair and representative government to all groups within Iraq, not just the oil rich and majority holding Shia.

About that.......

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...er-killed-baghdad-ambush-150214194342794.html

A prominent Sunni tribal leader and his son and seven bodyguards have been killed in the Iraqi capital in an attack that has raised fresh questions about the role of armed groups.
Officials said on Saturday that Sheikh Qassem Sweidan al-Janabi was killed in Sadr City, a mainly Shia district in east Baghdad, after his convoy was ambushed.
Janabi, a moderate Sunni, was found shot in the head with his hands tied behind his back.
His son was killed by a bullet to the chest while most of his seven bodyguards were shot in the head.

Iran making sure the conflict keeps going.

 

[Jburton]

About that.......

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...er-killed-baghdad-ambush-150214194342794.html



Iran making sure the conflict keeps going.

It seems Iraq as a geopolitical football being kicked around shall continue and those involved shall reap what they sow at the expensive of the innocents that suffer and those that have to live in that region in general.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Their aim is to provoke a ground invasion and fight a guerrilla war, knowing that the collateral will be a fertile recruiting tool. The long-term aim would be to tire the Western public's appetite for war and thus abandon the Middle East.

Even were a ground war to be won, how long would it be before another group rises from the ashes? Remember, there was no ISIS a decade ago before the Iraq War - which was 'won' by the Allies.

The only real solution is to rebuild these broken countries with a model that all sides can actually agree to. Otherwise, this sort of militancy will take its place.