The Incarnation
Member
Probably should suspend making bullets for a while.
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ISIS releases video purporting to show Islamic State killing 21 Egyptian Christians
- Thread starter Phantast2k
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gutter_trash
Banned
lol everyone else is overweight but himHe was playing some basketball according to the white house instagram..
victreeb3l
Member
I eagerly look forward to the day when this menace is wiped off the face off the earth. Fuck ISIS and all their supporters.
Arab-sponsored terrorism has done far more damage in Iraq than what the US military ever did in it's occupation. True enough they dismantled the police force and military in Iraq, leaving it open to anyone from abroad, but I don't recall US soldiers telling Sunni countries across the world to send terrorists to the countries affected. Let's see the bigger picture here:
Iraq - After decades of oppression Kurds got more independence and the central government became Shia-oriented. This affected the (mostly) Sunni dominance in the region.
Syria - a Baathist govt. by nature, yet after the 2003 fiasco it only grew to have a stronger alliance with Iran and Russia, again affecting the Sunni dominance in the region (despite them doing nothing about terrorists going back and forth between the Syria/Iraq borderwhen US was occupying Iraq)
Egypt - Muslim brotherhood overthrown affected the balance in the region as well. They were replaced with a dictator that doesn't give two fucks about some Sunni dominance in the region. As seen before and even mentioned in this thread the guys have strong ties to extremists and now have members joining ISIS. This doesn't come as a surprise when the group have strong ties to Gulf States like Qatar and Saudi Arabia, who have their share of private (and probably on state-level) funders to ISIS. Ever since the Muslim Brotherhood was overthrown there's been an increase of attacks against Egyptian soldiers and civilians by ISIS.
Islamic extremists tend to often talk about Western injustice in the region, about dicators supported by the West, Zionism, Israeli injustice towards Palestinians and whatever. So why is it that those extremists are all focused in areas where the Sunni dominance has been affected? Why are they all targeting Muslim minorities, non-muslims and even Sunni muslims working for the govt. of said areas?
It's not about ISIS only, you have Al Nusra, the rebels in Libya, Muslim Brotherhood, the FSA and all other trash who are just two sides of the same coin. It doesn't take a history lesson to give a good guess on what's going on here; it has fuck all to do with Bush's invasion. You can blame him and the US military for all shit they did, but the soldiers weren't holding signs telling Sunni Arab countries to sponsor terrorism in Iraq, Syria or Egypt.
How much of ISIS can be traced back to Mohammed himself? Their origins aren't A+B, let alone the solution.
gutter_trash
Banned
What is NATO member Turkey waiting for to stop the madness?
War is profitable so never.
aronnov reborn
Banned
absolutely disgusting.
All this hate in the world is really starting to get me down
All this hate in the world is really starting to get me down
Look into the Sinai insurgency
Russia was helping Iraq together with Iran weeks before US decided to enter the conflict. Iraq had to change government to appease a "marginalized" minority who were raising ISIS flags, inviting ISIS to their cities and applauding them as they went through the streets before US decided to do anything, and even then it has mostly been air strikes concentrated around the Kurdish region Not even one F16 has been delivered so far, and by the time US decided to do anything Russia were already delivering Sukhois to the IAF, so yes they've done fuck more than what US decided to do. It also helps that Russia aren't strong allies with countries that have a high concentration of ISIS members or sympathizers like Jordan and Saudi Arabia (not to mention the funding from such countries), and that they even have their own fight against such terrorists (Chechenyan terrorists, who now btw are found among ISIS in Syria and Iraq). US wouldn't do shit even if Saudi Arabia farted on Obama's face everyday.
Er, the West DID deal directly with Yugoslavia, carrying out bombing missions on marauding Serb forces and eventually sending troops into Bosnia and Kosovo, who are still there to this day. But those interventions in the 90's have paid off with peace restored and EU membership on the way for the former warring states. (Slovenia and Croatia having already joined)
Putin is supporting Assad. He also just signed a multi-billion dollar nuclear power plant project with Egypt. If the United States continues to pursue a Middle East policy that appeases Sunni Islamist fanatics, they may very well wake up one day to find a some crucial ME states (beyond Iran and Syria) firmly under Putin's sphere of influence.
Engaging in regional geopolitical machinations and quietly supporting ISIS in order to topple Assad (who is really just as much of a bastard as Al-Baghdadi) and keep the Kurds weakened.
This shit has gone on too long. Syria is in chaos and really the time has come to send in a NATO occupation force to take over the country.
We got a bunch of carpenters if you like.
speculawyer
Member
Turkey is largely Sunni and they hate the Kurds. Word is, Turkey helped ISIS for a while although they've stopped that. But they are really not all that helpful it attacking them.
gutter_trash
Banned
And Turkey allows Europeans who want to join ISIS travel freely to Syria and back.
Turkey are dicks
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Disgusting, to be sure, but by no means unprecedented. Did anyone here follow sites like ogrish and liveleak during the heart of the Iraq war? Executions and beheadings were incessant. What ISIS has been doing is not original.
Feel terrible for the victims.
Feel terrible for the victims.
Turkey is a ruled by a Sunni Islamist political party.
Patapwn
Member
Now now, lets not attack those who disagree with the historicity of this document by saying their motives are to downplay interfaith tolerance. The script among other elements of it do play a notable role in determining its authenticity. I think it loses a number of points even as a supposed 'copy' from this analysis. Also, the document doesn't really make sense at its foundation. The supposed time it was written, there was no reason for some monastery in the saini peninsula to have knowledge of or care about what was going on in the hijazi at that period let alone actually get into contact for a treaty of some sort. The islamic conquests wasn't even happening at this time. Perhaps this tradition was forged by the monks during the conquests around 660ish or the middle ages, who knows. Early Islamic history does describe documents indicating religious tolerance, so please don't think I'm on the 'muhammad = worst thing ever' hate train
Do you have this reference? Your link says it but I didn't see the source. They gave an excerpt from ibn kathir but not from them which has me a little suspect. Also, if you look at the dates of these people this would indicated a reference came around 200 years after Muhammad death. Thats also little suspect but would like to see what they actually claim if you can find a copy of their works
I'm not denying that he mentioned something about a supposed treaty but I would like to see the reference in book form if you could find it. As for the part about 'containing direct refrences' I'm pretty sure those aren't actually direct references but merely issues of protection by the local government.
Anyways, thanks in advanced for a reply. I wasn't aware of possible earlier traditions
Kurds can be and mostly are Sunni if I am not mistaken. One is a religious denomination, the other is an ethnic group. So i think saying that there is animosity between Turks and Kurds would be more accurate.
Stereogatari
Banned
I should have elaborated and this will now seem like I'm moving the goalposts but I promise I'm not.
When Yugoslavia was still stable before anybody had seceeded yet, if the West went in fully with boots on the ground to try and create a democratic state and forcibly remove their rulers...I think the Balkans would be an Iraq/Syria-like mess today.
As it happened Yugoslavia organically broke down and NATO/UN intervened, but that kind of intervention was nothing compared to the invasion of Iraq.
Maybe my analogy is too crazy and too far, but my central point is that it's better for countries to organically develop civil societies and liberties and such, rather than the West forcing it on them via colonial-like methods.
Turkey is an example I like to cite. It democratised on its own terms after defeating Western attempts at colonisation and turned out to be the most stable and Westernised Middle Eastern nation (Israel withstanding). If Turkey had been colonised and had Western culture forced on them by their Western overlords then I don't think it'd have developed as well as it did.
speculawyer
Member
Turkey doesn't have a religious beef with the Kurds, they have a territorial, ethnicity, and terrorism dispute. I mentioned the Sunni part in that ISIS is Sunni and Assad is Alawite/Shiia.
There's actually a documentary called Bitter Lake and a really well done summary post by Messofanego that sums the whole situation up. Check it out if your interested.
Stereogatari
Banned
Not to mention Turkey and Turks aren't as affected by Sunni VS Shia drama as the wider Middle East is. Turkey should be considered as distinct from the Middle Eastern milieu as the West is.
Thats it, Ive fucking had it with this shit, do whatever is necessary to wipe every single one of these sub-human disgusting pieces of shit off the face of the Earth. These fuckers deserve to die and if they suffer in the process so be it.
Netherscourge
Banned
Has congress given Obama authority to use airstrikes yet?
WTF are they waiting for? The GOP doing their usual stalling BS for a deal on budget cuts or some other stupid political BS?
Sign the paperwork and launch the freaking tomahawks already.
WTF are they waiting for? The GOP doing their usual stalling BS for a deal on budget cuts or some other stupid political BS?
Sign the paperwork and launch the freaking tomahawks already.
The U.S has already been doing air strikes for months,
I read your initial post as to mean that you thought the animosity between Turks and Kurds was sectarian in nature.
Netherscourge
Banned
Well what exactly was Obama lobbying for last week?
I thought he made it clear ground troops were off the table?
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
They're already doing air strikes but they're trying to push through an AUMF. It'll allow for broader black ops and training and stuff specifically against ISIS
speculawyer
Member
Syria has been in Russia's camp for many years. Iran is heavily influenced by them as well. It is not like that would be anything new.
speculawyer
Member
It definitely was a poorly worded post.
Netherscourge
Banned
Seems like the Cold War never actually ended. It's just being played with religious/extremist pawns now, instead of spies.
Thanks for sharing this, very interesting article.
Kosmokrator
Neo Member
The US's continued support of Saudi Arabia (the source of Wahhabism, the ideological impetus of ISIS), the power vacuum that they left behind in Iraq after their invasion and withdrawal and the funneling of arms and money to "moderate" elements of the FSA (much of which ended up in the hands of ISIS) are all examples of direct US involvement which resulted in blowback; adverse effects of their Middle-Eastern foreign policy.
Soldiers don't have to say anything, the political establishment continues to support policies that are congruent with increasing terrorism in the region.
RustyNails
Member
Not sure why you're hung up on the script, when we have already established (three times now) that it's from the 15th century. There was every reason for the monks to establish contact with Muhammad after the Meccan Conquest. He united all the warring tribes in Arabia under one banner, and was now engaged in skirmishes with the Byzantine and Persian empires. The Year of Delegation is famous for having delegates sent out to various locations proclaiming the message of Islam including Najran, and also being united under it's banner in the Hijaz region.
Sorry, I don't have the books in front of me. I'm going by the research from others. But you should know that the first biography of Muhammad (Seerat al rasool) by Ibn Ishaq was written a hundred years after Muhammad's death. His biography was purportedly thousands and thousands of pages, but sadly was not preserved. But Ibn Hisham luckily summarized Ibn Ishaq's work, and that's the original source of Muhammad's life we have today. Even the famous Hadith collecters Bukhari, Muslim were compiled hundreds of years after Muhammad's death. Everything we know of him comes from these two sources, including Ibn Kathir's work and Ibn Kathir was born around 500 years after Muhammad.
You're welcome, but again I don't have the books with me. This is just off google.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Man some of you have fucking stomachs of steel. I threw up, bleh.
Cheesecakebobby
Banned
So disgusting, and a sad reminder that globally Christians form one of the most persecuted religious groups - why then don't affluent Christians in the West speak up more for their brothers who suffer?
This is one of those scenarios where nuclear warfare might be considered. If ISIS gets big enough, I'm sure it'll enter the discussion. ISIS needs to be eliminated completely and the only way to do that is to deal them such a resounding blow that they never recover. They are currently too spread out. Where do you even begin to send troops to?
To me Turkey is becoming more like enemies than friends (if we were ever that anyways). More like Saudi Arabia lite. Although western governments still have their heads in the sand with this fact. They subtly support ISIS in various ways. All the while pushing the west to come down harder on Assad, Iran and other Shiite countries/leaders.
No, not even close, even entertaining the notion that nuclear weapons are a possible response is scary.
You would just go to Iraq and Syria they aren't too spread out.
Probably because they're not white.
Roadkill Kelly
Neo Member
I refuse to watch, are these ISIS beheadings worse than the Iraq ones from 10 years ago?
I'm skeptical as to what troops on the ground can actually achieve. I guess Iraq and Afghanistan have me jaded. And I should say I hope it never comes to the point where nuclear is an option. ISIS has it's tentacles in almost region of the Islamic world and they seem to only be getting bigger and bolder from what I've heard and read.
Nukes don't work against highly decentralized targets like ISIS, all nukes would do is lead to a new ISIS with probably millions of members.
They're scattered in clusters, hiding in civilian areas, caves, etc. We've already been doing airstrikes for months and it's not going to wipe out these guys.
Everyone says "omg wipe these guys out with airstrikes! It's so easy!" It's not. You bomb civilian areas, wipe out a few Isis members and a bunch of civilians. Isis comes by and recruits the men who's families were killed in air strikes. It's a vicious cycle that can't be solved with just bombing the shit out of them.
I don't know what the solution is, but simply saying we need to bomb them to hell and back is a simple, knee jerk "solution" that isn't going to work.
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