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Islamic Jihard Army message IN ENGLISH
- Thread starter Kuroyume
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FrenchMovieTheme
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insressing
radioheadrule83
Banned
You don't understand a perspective by watching a PR campaign video.
Perhaps those are the true feelings of some Iraqi resistance, but if you think that's all there is to it you need to watch some heads being cut off, while the victims are alive - a process and visual representation of a life ebbing away - something which takes longer than you might think. Find the translations of the preceeding arabic spoken before those murders. Some of those people want all westerners driven from the arabic peninsular, they hide behind their own sects of the Islamic faith, twisting it into their own radical vision, and are themselves trying to become the apostate tyranical rulers they would have you believe they want to overthrow. The beheading videos "aren't shown on CNN" either... I've seen so many of them, that I can't help but greet this will total skepticism. It wouldn't surprise me if it was all freelance video, spliced together and voiced over by a western anti-war campaigner... at the very least we know it is made and funded by one side in the argument. Of course, having said this: I am prepared to accept it could be a legitimately felt sentiment among Iraqis. Basically what I'm saying is -- this isn't black and white. Freedom as you understand it... as this video would have you believe the entire 'resistance' want... it's just not a concept that a lot of people the US/UK forces are fighting understand. Like Saddam before them, they have potential to be a palpable threat.
It was the threat of Saddam that had the United Nations go through 11 years of resolutions with the endgame of sanctions in the first place. The fact they say the sanctions were US/UK enforced before the war is rediculous anyway - there was an international consensus on those sanctions. Non compliance from the Ba'athists forced it. If he had been a reasonable man, in a reasonable regime, running his country in a reasonable way -- he would have done everything he could to help his people. Instead it appears he stole from the UN Oil For Food programme. It's only by the UNs now-archaic veto system that he was allowed to fend off the UN for so many years, and avoid a multi-lateral invasion by UN forces. His games of delay and deceive still lost him the rule of his country, but he won a political war in making the US and UK go it alone. And I say 'making'... the final call was still probably Bush's. Now - whereas a multi-lateral force would have had more hope of stabilising the region a little more - there's now a chance it can be destabilised further..... but yeah, leaving Iraq now to fend with it's tribal warlords, radical Muslim terror groups and such is a great idea! Put down your guns and come into our houses US troops! I won't cut your head off!
Perhaps those are the true feelings of some Iraqi resistance, but if you think that's all there is to it you need to watch some heads being cut off, while the victims are alive - a process and visual representation of a life ebbing away - something which takes longer than you might think. Find the translations of the preceeding arabic spoken before those murders. Some of those people want all westerners driven from the arabic peninsular, they hide behind their own sects of the Islamic faith, twisting it into their own radical vision, and are themselves trying to become the apostate tyranical rulers they would have you believe they want to overthrow. The beheading videos "aren't shown on CNN" either... I've seen so many of them, that I can't help but greet this will total skepticism. It wouldn't surprise me if it was all freelance video, spliced together and voiced over by a western anti-war campaigner... at the very least we know it is made and funded by one side in the argument. Of course, having said this: I am prepared to accept it could be a legitimately felt sentiment among Iraqis. Basically what I'm saying is -- this isn't black and white. Freedom as you understand it... as this video would have you believe the entire 'resistance' want... it's just not a concept that a lot of people the US/UK forces are fighting understand. Like Saddam before them, they have potential to be a palpable threat.
It was the threat of Saddam that had the United Nations go through 11 years of resolutions with the endgame of sanctions in the first place. The fact they say the sanctions were US/UK enforced before the war is rediculous anyway - there was an international consensus on those sanctions. Non compliance from the Ba'athists forced it. If he had been a reasonable man, in a reasonable regime, running his country in a reasonable way -- he would have done everything he could to help his people. Instead it appears he stole from the UN Oil For Food programme. It's only by the UNs now-archaic veto system that he was allowed to fend off the UN for so many years, and avoid a multi-lateral invasion by UN forces. His games of delay and deceive still lost him the rule of his country, but he won a political war in making the US and UK go it alone. And I say 'making'... the final call was still probably Bush's. Now - whereas a multi-lateral force would have had more hope of stabilising the region a little more - there's now a chance it can be destabilised further..... but yeah, leaving Iraq now to fend with it's tribal warlords, radical Muslim terror groups and such is a great idea! Put down your guns and come into our houses US troops! I won't cut your head off!
These freedom fighters cut off the heads of Aid workers. Women and men who wanted to help people learn to grow wheat, barley, rice, to irrigate dirt fields, remove landmines from school yards so kids can play soccer. Not just American aid workers. Italians, Koreans, Japanese, Aussies and other nationalities. These freedom fighters cut their heads off with machetes and dull swords. They filmed their screams and sent it to the news broadcasting services.
To these freedom fighters, I say...
Fuck you.
To these freedom fighters, I say...
Fuck you.
fennec fox
ferrets ferrets ferrets ferrets FERRETS!!!
Sheesh, you've got both ends of the magnet on this thread.
I recall reading a piece by a poet of all people who went to Iraq to try to find Iraqi poets. His take was that despite the rhetoric these "freedom fighters" put out, they're still just "The Sopranos".
They're still just thugs. These people are just like the "freedom fighters" we supported in Afghanistan when the Soviets invaded. They don't want freedom, they just want to be the only bullies in town.
They're still just thugs. These people are just like the "freedom fighters" we supported in Afghanistan when the Soviets invaded. They don't want freedom, they just want to be the only bullies in town.
radioheadrule83
Banned
darscot said:
If that's in response to my post, don't put words in my mouth. I never said everyone was an extremist. Just that a lot of resistance groups, whether this is one of them or not, are not altruistic - and many preach hate - not this "Iraq was an internationally friendly fluffy nation of rainbows and gumdrop smiles before the US/UK somehow got the UN to impose sanctions, which by the way had nothing to do with an evil non-compliant dicatator, we only want peace, please lay down your weapons and go home" shit. Some groups are almost stone age in their acceptance of twisted ideology.
One person mentioned perspective. Another mentioned two poles of the magnet. Perspective is somewhere inbetween the two poles of the magnet. Thats all I'm saying.
edit:
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\/ \/ \/ ahh gotchya, np. :lol
"We will pin them here in Iraq to drain their resources, manpower, and their will to fight. We will make them spend as much as they steal, if not more"
It may be rhetoric, or it may not, but this is one of the main reasons that I was against going into Iraq for WM....I mean, to liberate the Iraqis. We ARE wasting are resources and manpower and I can only pray that the soldiers have the mettle to not lose their willpower, as well.
It may be rhetoric, or it may not, but this is one of the main reasons that I was against going into Iraq for WM....I mean, to liberate the Iraqis. We ARE wasting are resources and manpower and I can only pray that the soldiers have the mettle to not lose their willpower, as well.
F
Folder
Unconfirmed Member
The US illegally invaded Iraq, a move condemned by the vast majority of the civilised world. It is widely accepted that this invasion was to secure oil access in the medium term. Its kind of understandable if the Iraqis are a little pissed off with the situation as the US Army reduces their country to rubble.
The actions of the current US government and its conduction of its foreign policy will be etched in history as being amongst the most evil chapters in the emergence of modern mankind.
The actions of the current US government and its conduction of its foreign policy will be etched in history as being amongst the most evil chapters in the emergence of modern mankind.
Which of course is far worse than dropping bombs on largely civilian areas, denying dying mutilated children access to medical care and having real-time coverage of the slaughter streamed into every TV set in the US. Grow up son. For all our sakes.Doth Togo said:
F
Folder
Unconfirmed Member
I girl I used to see once masturbated with my action figure of that dude.Drozmight said:
"It's a trap! All craft prepare for retreat!"
This thread is now special to me.
F
Folder
Unconfirmed Member
I might have a picture somewhere. I'm not even joking.Drozmight said:
Will check old HDs in office tomorrow.
Lucky Forward
Member
About the freedom fighters cutting off heads: The US, too, commits war atrocities. 'Tis the way of new war. This doesn't make either side in the right, because neither IS right. War is very, very wrong. I can't really disagree with what this message was saying. It was basically a we'll fight to the end speech. Sort of like a Dubya declaration of war, only without the 15 second pauses between sentences.
About the pictures of the Akbar figurine masturbation:
WHAT.
YOU TOOK PICTURES.
About the pictures of the Akbar figurine masturbation:
WHAT.
YOU TOOK PICTURES.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Folder said:
It is widely accepted by ill-informed and naive people who don't take the time to educate themselves on the realities of fungible markets. "Oil access" could be had for a few trade concessions to Saddam--allow him to kill, terrorize, and torture as long as he sells us cheap oil (you know, like France and Russia were doing). That would have been a lot easier than invading the country to topple him and investing billions in Iraqi infrastructure.
How's that exactly? From Fareed Zakaria's latest Newsweek article:
___________________________________________________
The current issue of Foreign Affairs has an exchange between two scholars, Tony Smith and Larry Diamond. Smith accuses Diamond, a longtime supporter of human rights, of making a "pact with the devil" by working (briefly) for the United States in postwar Iraq. Diamond, who had opposed the war, responds: "I do not regard the post-war endeavor as a pact with the devil. Let Smith and other critics visit Iraq and talk to Iraqis who are organizing for democracy, development, and human rights. Let them talk to the families that lived under constant, humiliating, Baathist rule. Let them see some of the roughly 300 mass graves of opponents of the regime who were brutally slaughtered in the hundreds of thousands. Then they will find out who the devil really was." I can't say it better.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6700784/site/newsweek/
_______________________________________________________________
"Grow up son?" At least support your sweeping conclusions with some actual argument if you're going to give put on the condescending attitude.
There is no fucking risistance. This is bullshit straight out of the ba'athists. Thanking France and Germany? Yea FUCKING RIGHT. These are some of the last countries I would thank as an Iraqi.
edit: no offense to any French or Germans, I'm not talking about you I'm talking about the people in your governments.
edit: no offense to any French or Germans, I'm not talking about you I'm talking about the people in your governments.
Damn straight.Doth Togo said:These freedom fighters cut off the heads of Aid workers. Women and men who wanted to help people learn to grow wheat, barley, rice, to irrigate dirt fields, remove landmines from school yards so kids can play soccer. Not just American aid workers. Italians, Koreans, Japanese, Aussies and other nationalities. These freedom fighters cut their heads off with machetes and dull swords. They filmed their screams and sent it to the news broadcasting services.
To these freedom fighters, I say...
Fuck you.
Call the war illegal, point out (correctly) that the US is no stranger to acts of atrocity or war crimes in general, etc. It's all true. However, none of this therefore makes said atrocities acceptable. The beheadings are fucking evil. Period.
Guileless said:
Stop. Just stop. You're calling ill-informed and naive people who think that USA did all that for the oil? C'mon man and you who btw are not naive believe that US did that for democracy and for the Kurds and the rest of the minorities? Where was your precious goverment when in Turkey they were burning down to the ground kurdish villages? Where was your precious goverment when they promised the Kurds that they would help after the first Gulf war to revolute, and then left them to die in the hands of a butcher like Saddam? You're talking about human rights? You the supporter of goverments who installed dictatorships like Pinochets, suharto, and dozens of others who butchered millions (and no I'm not exaggerating). This is hypocricy beyond anything I can imagine.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
che you are the most naive and ill-informed poster on this board. You continually regurgitate leftist pablum like the post above or your "i hate so-called free markets" gem recently. You are apparently incapable of actual discussion without resorting to ideological ranting.
Don't tell me to "just stop" and go off on a an tangent. Refute my argument with a well-reasoned counterargument. Show me how the war was "for oil." Repeating your litany of complaints about how the US has caused every problem in the world for the last 50 years does not qualify.
As always I welcome a debate on the merits.
Don't tell me to "just stop" and go off on a an tangent. Refute my argument with a well-reasoned counterargument. Show me how the war was "for oil." Repeating your litany of complaints about how the US has caused every problem in the world for the last 50 years does not qualify.
As always I welcome a debate on the merits.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
way to go bush, ya fucking moron.
the problem as i see it is that the people who have commited the worst of the atrocities (heads cut off and all that) most of that has been done by al-zarqawis group.
he's a foreigner and most iraqi resistance (or insurgents or what have you) would actually like it if those guys werent around.
they are fighting for two different things and the same goal at the same time.
i'm sure the insurgents have committed some bad stuff themselves but you cant say " see, it was right of us to invade cause those thughs are cutting people's heads off. we gotta fight them!!" the reason this is happening in the first place is because they(the USA) invaded their country and occupied it. i'd feel the same way if the USA and UN for ten years sanctioned the shit out my country9 and as a result thousnads of people died) and screwed me every way they could without a reach around or something and then came and invaded my country all in the name of "freedom" and killed more of my family in "accidents"
maybe iraqis dont want the insurgents around, but they sure as hell dont want american bombs and "sorry about that" later on.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Not only do they want each other around, the foreign fighters and former Baathists are actively working together to disrupt the fledgling Iraqi government according to all of the reporting I've read.evil solrac v3.0 said:
The Baathists were killing people before the war (perhaps you've hear about the mass graves?) The 20% minority Sunnis controlled the rest of the population with an Orwellian police state predicated on fear and brutality. The only difference is that those murders weren't made-for-tv productions. They stayed in power by tyrannizing the majority; now they are trying to regain power by tyrannizing the majority. The only thing that has changed is the loss of state sponsorship for their actions.evil solrac v3.0 said:
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Guileless said:
please forget about the bathaaits cause everyone in iraq hated them. it's damn obvious the USA isnt wanted in iraq and it's more run-of the-mill people that are joining the resistance.
i guess that's why they were shooting and killing foreign jihadists in fallujah before the second invasion. guess you forgot to read that.
it isnt as simple as saying "we're fighting for freedom" when the war wasnt even about that in the first place.
evil solrac v3.0 said:
How ignorant of you to say that. I can't believe the nerve that some people have to just brush off the ba'ath just like that. These resistance groups are fucking ba'ath members. What Iraqi resistance takes civilian Iraqi's as hostages?? I know that these are ba'ath members from what family friends that have been taken hostage by them have to say about their experiences with them.
Also, not everyone hated the ba'ath smart ass. The Sunni triangle lived off the ba'ath. You have not fucking clue as to what the whole conflict in Iraq is really about. Its not about Iraq not wanting the USA. Thats just the cover up for the real issue, it succesfully keeps people like you occupied with a small issue. The Sunni triangle was nothing, it was a desert and it remains a desert. Small villages that now have grown to small cities thanks to the Ba'athists taking all of Iraq's money and putting it towards them. Leaving the rest of Iraq to deteriate. The majority of Baathists come from the Sunni trianlge, and the truth is everything you see is their last effortsto stop the Shia from gaining majority control of the government.
Second, can you link me to an articale relating to the "shooting" of foreign terrorists in Fallujah.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Firest0rm said:
believe what you want. fact of the matter is that the u.s isnt wanted there. by both the sunnis and shi'ites.
let me guess, somehow sunnis are gonna accept whatever from of gov't comes along after jan 30 because they are free now? am i supposed to buy that? are the sunnis? this is a fight between two deeply divided groups and it aint gonna get solved with the u.s in the middle throwing punches and putting in office whoever they think will "play ball" with us.
Second, can you link me to an articale relating to the "shooting" of foreign terrorists in Fallujah
it was on yahoo a few months back, if you really know everything about the iraq conflict, you should be able to find it.
evil solrac v3.0 said:
There are actually many Sunni's who do accept it. If Sunni's don't take part in the election its THEIR fault. They have to face the facts. Shia make up 60% of the country, they make up only 20%. If the US didn't come in then it would have remained with the Baath Sunni's in power who not only hurt Shia but also alot of Sunni's who were against them.
You should understand that the US doesn't favor Shia over Sunnis or Sunnis over Shia. The US is cooperating with the groups that cooperate with it. Some of Sunni's won't cooperate because they know that no matter what THEY LOSE. They have nothing to gain from this because their gonna lose the dominance that they've enjoyed for 30 years.
As for your comment ont he article. Thats pretty weak of you, knowing about the conflict about my own country doesn't mean that I have to search every news site to find every single thing that has happened in the streets of Iraq.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
the bottom line is that this is an ethnic fight that's been going on for far too long and i dont think it's gonna get solved by some election or saying one group is right and the other is wrong and they should go to their room without supper.
maybe the baath party did do the right thing in lifting up those shanty towns, who are we to judge? there's poverty everywhere you look in iraq. and we're supposed to hand power over to some high priced suit iraqi who looks good in front of a camera and is a shi'ite?
what's to say the shi'ites dont eventually elect a guy that's as bad as saddam? how is it that installing or letting the shi'ites have more say in how the constitution and parliament are shaped be any better than before? sure doesnt guarantee a smooth transition to relative peace. that's my only concern with all of this. i'm not even gonna get into the whole "shouldnt have invaded in the first place" cause that's another discussion for another day.
maybe the baath party did do the right thing in lifting up those shanty towns, who are we to judge? there's poverty everywhere you look in iraq. and we're supposed to hand power over to some high priced suit iraqi who looks good in front of a camera and is a shi'ite?
what's to say the shi'ites dont eventually elect a guy that's as bad as saddam? how is it that installing or letting the shi'ites have more say in how the constitution and parliament are shaped be any better than before? sure doesnt guarantee a smooth transition to relative peace. that's my only concern with all of this. i'm not even gonna get into the whole "shouldnt have invaded in the first place" cause that's another discussion for another day.
Firest0rm said:
WHAT WHAT WHAT? Man you're killing me here. You think that the Iraqi resistance is just Baath members? Do you even know that the Siites who are btw the biggest part of Iraq's population iirc are fighting the US troops? The only minority in Iraq that isn't fighting the americans nowadays are the Kurds hense the example on my previous post.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Firest0rm said:
well, i read at least two articles on that. had quotes from even field commanders who were monitoring the daily action. maybe juan cole has something in his archives or something. i do know that tensions between foreign jihadists and iraqi insurgents started up after the april offensive in fallujah. basically put, the iraqis did not like the stringent "rules" of islam the outsiders bought with them and that's when trouble started. and i do know that these foreign fighters do operate independently of the resistance cells.
evil solrac v3.0 said:
I really don't see where your going with any of this. Elections will helps set Iraq on the right track. Iraq has never elected their own leaders. This is the first time in the history of Iraq. No one is handing over power of Iraq to a bunch of "high priced suit" Iraqi's. Their setting up an election for Iraqi's to choose who will lead Iraq towards a better future.
The poverty you see now is a result of the Ba'ath! Listen, Iraq was always ruled by the Sunnis. When Iraq was formed the British put the Sunnis in power, from then till now its always been them in power. So the Sunni's weren't being neglected or anything like that. The Ba'ath came into power through force and murder and they started the decline of Iraq ever since. They neglected and oppressed 80% of Iraq and many Sunni's too.
Shi'ites won't elect some one like Saddam because there is no one like him! Do you know anything about Saddam? He lived a messed up life that damaged him mentally. He's idols are Hitler and Stalin, everything he does is an attempt to mimic them. Why would they want to elect anyone like him!? Your questions are really meaningless. Its like saying whats going to stop Germany from electing a person like Hitler after the was was over?
And no one is giving the Shia more say in how the constitution and parliament is shaped up. This is decided by the people who choose to go and vote in January. If they don't want their voice heard then thats their fault. Everything some of these Sunni's are doing is going to come back and bite them in the ass later on for not taking the opportunity to contribute to the constitution and the parliament.
Che said:
Ofcourse I do know who the Shia are smart ass. I am an Iraqi Shia! And if your going to refer to Sadr. Then I'm not even going to bother going into that. He's a whole different story and a long one too. I don't have time to talk alot more because I need to get back to studying for my exams.
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