Israel attacks another UN school (19 dead, 126 injured)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Image8.png


This is how Hamas' mortars look like:

42845077_ap-missiles416.jpg


294.jpg


http://paliestine.com/hamas-misfire...ling-20-palestinian-civilians-blaming-israel/

Don't blame everything on Israel. Some of Hamas' rockets are highly unpredictable and many of them hit the Gaza strip.
 
Jonm1010 said:
Think logically for one second, why would Hamas strike there own hospitals where arguably their own fighters are being treated? It's rather counter productive and takes a pretty strong misunderstanding of human nature to swallow. If you say it's because that's what they do then please be prepared to back it up with facts and independent source verification. On the other hand you have Israel that has been found to be following the Dahiya doctrine in past incursions as concluded by UN investigations which falls exactly in line with the sort of actions we are seeing. You have numerous other examples of civilian structures being hit, attacking the power plant, attacking UN schools, shelters, ambulances and other non-combative structures.
Click to expand...
Not supporting those IDF scumbags, but what they said was Hamas fucked up and fired a rocket that fell short of its target.

Currently I don't know what to believe. There are only two accounts so far that assign blame aside from the assholes who lie about killing children.
 
Jonm1010 said:
Ask NBC? They made the claim. And if it had been Hamas rocket fire don't you think the reporter would have noticed that? It's very easy to see a drone, see no other rockets from inside gaza being fired and then a massive explosion and draw the conclusion that it wasn't intrrnally. And given how Israel has already lied about striking UN facilities and made false claims elsewhere the idea that they deserve the benefit of a doubt seems rather laughable.
Click to expand...

A friend showed me footage of Hezbollah rockets falling on Haifa during the 2006 war. You could not see the rocket, all you saw where the explosion and sound. If i wasn't told it was a rocket i would have assumed it was a car bomb.
 
Jonm1010 said:
Think logically for one second, why would Hamas strike there own hospitals where arguably their own fighters are being treated? It's rather counter productive and takes a pretty strong misunderstanding of human nature to swallow.
Click to expand...

The most likely answer is incompetence on the part of either the IDF or Hamas, whatever hit the hospital.

It certainly doesnt help Israel to hit a hospital, by the same token I also dont think Hamas would hit their own infrastructure intentionally. I'd say this is the sort of thing that happens in a war unfortunately, which brings us back to a cease fire and then hopefully some progress.
 
Quotient said:
A friend showed me footage of Hezbollah rockets falling on Haifa during the 2006 war. You could not see the rocket, all you saw where the explosion and sound. If i wasn't told it was a rocket i would have assumed it was a car bomb.
Click to expand...

You can hear them and see the drones.

Dash27 said:
The most likely answer is incompetence on the part of either the IDF or Hamas, whatever hit the hospital.

It certainly doesnt help Israel to hit a hospital, by the same token I also dont think Hamas would hit their own infrastructure intentionally. I'd say this is the sort of thing that happens in a war unfortunately, which brings us back to a cease fire and then hopefully some progress.
Click to expand...
Israel does it because it hurts/scares the Palestinians, wrecks infrastructure, they can get away with it.
 
I know RT News is pretty bad, but I am skimming through every news site for information and I think they raised an interesting point regarding the destruction of the only power station.

What is hurting Israel the most? I would guess Twitter/Facebook etc.
And how would you stop/mitigate the effect of those pictures/videos? I suppose one way would be to shut down the electricity.

I can´t think of any other reason to endanger not only the people in the vicinity of rockets/hamas but also the ones who are following the orders of IDF i.e. to flee from specific areas.
 
Whitechocolatekrispies said:
Sources? What does that mean? Obviously nothing in these threads.

Hamas said something? Must be true!

One Twitter post about a subject? Must be true!

Something happened? Must be true!

Meanwhile the IDF documents everything it finds with actual video proof. Showing numerous rockets fired from civilian areas, rockets and munitions found in civilian areas, houses rigged to blow up, numerous tunnels into Israel, numerous footage of aborted airstrikes when civilians show up and just general information that doesn't smear Israel as a blood thirsty murder. (Take it with a pinch of salt, it's going to be biased towards Israel, but you can't deny every bit of footage).

But the icing on the cake, actual footage from the last 'massacre' where supposedly 16 people were killed and 200 wounded in the last UN school attack ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62AyrcSaA3M

Empty playground.
Click to expand...

Maybe Israel didn't blow up the power plant.
 
soul said:
I see. Great counter-argument right there.
Click to expand...

It's cute that you post the inconclusive picture of this Juan Gomez but ignore the rest where he is talking about civilians that have been murdered by Israelis. Very telling. Though everyone already knows your disgusting angle on all this.
 
Dash27 said:
The most likely answer is incompetence on the part of either the IDF or Hamas, whatever hit the hospital.

It certainly doesnt help Israel to hit a hospital, by the same token I also dont think Hamas would hit their own infrastructure intentionally. I'd say this is the sort of thing that happens in a war unfortunately, which brings us back to a cease fire and then hopefully some progress.
Click to expand...

Again, except Israel has been shown to follow the Dahiya doctrine in the past and has already hit other civilian targets including the power plant. Either Israel is the most incompetent major military in te world or they are engaging in at least some of this as policy.
 
soul said:
Image8.png


This is how Hamas' mortars look like:

42845077_ap-missiles416.jpg


294.jpg


http://paliestine.com/hamas-misfire...ling-20-palestinian-civilians-blaming-israel/

Don't blame everything on Israel. Some of Hamas' rockets are highly unpredictable and many of them hit the Gaza strip.
Click to expand...
A great point... had that mortar bomb matched the caliber and number of fins (10) of Hamas/Islamic Jihad Soviet era 81mm mortar bombs.

The mortar bomb fragment is from a Soltam 120mm Israeli mortar.

Compare the tail fragment with the one from this US Army (who employ the same Soltam heavy mortar) pic:

0.jpg


Same projectile colour (beige), same number of fins (eight).

The hasbaredim are slipping a bit.
 
I think it ain't so far fetch to think that Hamas manged to bomb Gaza itself. Their rockets are know to be fucking shit and are having troubles with hitting anything. So it is reasonable to think that some of theirs rockets, would not be able to leave Gaza.
 
Just popping in again to remind everyone that if they aren't capable of discussing this without making personal attacks on fellow members, that they should find some place else to discuss it.
 
Dash27 said:
Well if it's true they are firing blindly and if it's true a significant amount hit their own people... I think that's kind of important as we hear of all these incidents.

That's on top of the common refrain about Hamas not being able to control everyone firing these things.
Click to expand...

So you are saying Hamas is causing these incidents?

Dash27 said:
The most likely answer is incompetence on the part of either the IDF or Hamas, whatever hit the hospital.

It certainly doesnt help Israel to hit a hospital, by the same token I also dont think Hamas would hit their own infrastructure intentionally. I'd say this is the sort of thing that happens in a war unfortunately, which brings us back to a cease fire and then hopefully some progress.
Click to expand...

At this point, all of these civilian targets are a military strategy. Not an unfortunate accident, which of course happens a lot during war.
Having said that, these are war crimes and this should not go unnoticed.

Quotient said:
The argument as i understand it is, that both sides are firing at one another, in many cases using unguided dumb munitions. It being in a dense urban environment. It is not a surprise that either side miss and hit civilians, and building like UN shelters. I would also include Hamas's rocket in the dumb munitions category.
Click to expand...

Whilst that may, and probably has, happened. It is very, very dangerous to write off any news about civilian casualties and infrastructure damage and say 'oh, it MIGHT have been caused by Hamas.. who knows!'. It just screams of people willing to twist anything to suit their own political and religious agenda.
 
Ingueferroque said:
So you are saying Hamas is causing these incidents?
Click to expand...

The argument as i understand it is, that both sides are firing at one another, in many cases using unguided dumb munitions. It being in a dense urban environment. It is not a surprise that either side miss and hit civilians, and building like UN shelters. I would also include Hamas's rocket in the dumb munitions category.
 
MacNille said:
I think it ain't so far fetch to think that Hamas manged to bomb Gaza itself. Their rockets are know to be fucking shit and are having troubles with hitting anything. So it is reasonable to think that some of theirs rockets, would not be able to leave Gaza.
Click to expand...

They sure seem to hit every congregation of civilians in Gaza, and with many times their regular explosive force, according to IDF. Awfully convenient. I wonder if those block buster bomb explosions are in fact Hamas discovering ancient fire magic or something.
 
soul said:
http://paliestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Image8.png[img]

This is how Hamas' mortars look like:

[img]http://paliestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/42845077_ap-missiles416.jpg[/mg]

[img]http://paliestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/294.jpg[img]

[url]http://paliestine.com/hamas-misfired-again-at-shujaiya-market-killing-20-palestinian-civilians-blaming-israel/[/url]

Don't blame everything on Israel. Some of Hamas' rockets are highly unpredictable and many of them hit the Gaza strip.[/QUOTE]
What do the mortars used by the IDF look like?
Click to expand...
 
Ingueferroque said:
Whilst that may, and probably has, happened. It is very, very dangerous to write off any news about civilian casualties and infrastructure damage and say 'oh, it MIGHT have been caused by Hamas.. who knows!'. It just screams of people willing to twist anything to suit their own political and religious agenda.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but the same argument can be made for people jumping to the conclusion that the IDF did it. In reality we won't know who did what until you have an investigative team down on the ground.

I don't doubt that the IDF has struck civilians, even those in shelters, and at the same time i also wouldn't be surprised to hear that a Hamas rocket mis-fired and struck a UN shelter. This is a war and unfortunately those who bear the brunt of it are innocents. We just have to hope for a cease-fire.
 
Horrible :(

Has anyone seen Al Jazeera's interview with a UN spokesperson who witnessed the market massacre? I can't find the link but it is so sad

Edit: ops ^^ there it is
 
Nickodemos said:
A great point... had that mortar bomb matched the caliber and number of fins (10) of Hamas/Islamic Jihad Soviet era 81mm mortar bombs.

The mortar bomb fragment is from a Soltam 120mm Israeli mortar.

Compare the tail fragment with the one from this US Army (who employ the same Soltam heavy mortar) pic:

0.jpg


Same projectile colour (beige), same number of fins (eight).

The hasbaredim are slipping a bit.
Click to expand...

Hamas does not only has shitty 81 mm mortars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Affair
http://www.timesofisrael.com/pflp-chief-says-syria-iran-hezbollah-armed-hamas/
It is not far fetch to think that they can have heavy calibers.
And as I was looking up on the range of the 81 mm (the soviet used 82 mm but whatever) and the maximum range of them are 3 km. They must have mortars of more heavy caliber to reach Israels towns that are in range of them:
rocketrange.jpg
 
Quotient said:
Agreed, but the same argument can be made for people jumping to the conclusion that the IDF did it. In reality we won't know who did what until you have an investigative team down on the ground.

I don't doubt that the IDF has struck civilians, even those in shelters, and at the same time i also wouldn't be surprised to hear that a Hamas rocket mis-fired and struck a UN shelter. This is a war and unfortunately those who bear the brunt of it are innocents. We just have to hope for a cease-fire.
Click to expand...

but it's not the first.... it's the fourth time UN building is hit.....

do u think Hamas can keep hitting them with normal rocket....
 
jakonovski said:
They sure seem to hit every congregation of civilians in Gaza, and with many times their regular explosive force, according to IDF. Awfully convenient. I wonder if those block buster bomb explosions are in fact Hamas discovering ancient fire magic or something.
Click to expand...

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I said that SOME of their rockets MAY have hit Gaza when they fired on Israel. It would be insane to believe that all the death and destruction in Gaza was only caused by Hamas.
 
Nickodemos said:
A great point... had that mortar bomb matched the caliber and number of fins (10) of Hamas/Islamic Jihad Soviet era 81mm mortar bombs.

The mortar bomb fragment is from a Soltam 120mm Israeli mortar.

Compare the tail fragment with the one from this US Army (who employ the same Soltam heavy mortar) pic:

0.jpg


Same projectile colour (beige), same number of fins (eight).

The hasbaredim are slipping a bit.
Click to expand...

Nice spot. I hadn't even noticed the difference in fins.
 
zeroOman said:
4 time... that mean someone is hitting these building in purpose....
Click to expand...

It doesn't gain Israel anything to hit UN shelters on purpose.

I am not suggesting Israel did not hit the shelters, it may be a result of a mis-fire on their part, or that soliders are returning fire using unguided munitions. The same could be said for Hamas.
 
Quotient said:
It doesn't gain Israel anything to hit UN shelters on purpose.

I am not suggesting Israel did not hit the shelters, it may be a result of a mis-fire on their part, or that soliders are returning fire using unguided munitions. The same could be said for Hamas.
Click to expand...

I'm left wondering what does Israel have to gain from any of this. At this point, they don't really seem to care that they've hit UN shelters.
 
MacNille said:
Now you are putting words in my mouth. I said that SOME of their rockets MAY have hit Gaza when they fired on Israel. It would be insane to believe that all the death and destruction in Gaza was only caused by Hamas.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying you're saying it. But it is clear as day that Israel is trying to deflect all blame away from itself in an operation that has seen over a thousand dead, most of them civilians. And it needs to be pointed out explicitly every time, or people will be misinformed.
 
Ingueferroque said:
So you are saying Hamas is causing these incidents?



At this point, all of these civilian targets are a military strategy. Not an unfortunate accident, which of course happens a lot during war.
Having said that, these are war crimes and this should not go unnoticed.
Click to expand...

Causing them no, I have no idea what if anything Hamas rockets hit. Causing in the sense of rejecting cease fires and starting the rocket attacks in the first place yes.

Israel doesnt deny to my knowledge that they hit some civilian buildings but they claim it's in response to rocket fire or tunnel entrances or whatever else. They also claim to try and warn people to get out.

Meanwhile.... Hamas just fires a few thousand rockets that land wherever. Somewhere in Israel, or get shot down by the Iron Dome or hell maybe land in Gaza itself. Because of this Israel has intense pressure to stop it (go figure), and this is the result.

Civilians are clearly dying, buildings that shouldn't be hit are being hit, buildings that shouldn't be used for military purposes like command centers and missile storage clearly are being used for that.
 
Whitechocolatekrispies said:
Actually I believe the IDF have admitted they might of accidentally hit one of the power plants fuel tanks while engaging anti-tank groups in the area. They are investigating the situation.
Click to expand...
"It was an accident."

Nickodemos said:
A great point... had that mortar bomb matched the caliber and number of fins (10) of Hamas/Islamic Jihad Soviet era 81mm mortar bombs.

The mortar bomb fragment is from a Soltam 120mm Israeli mortar.

Compare the tail fragment with the one from this US Army (who employ the same Soltam heavy mortar) pic:

0.jpg


Same projectile colour (beige), same number of fins (eight).

The hasbaredim are slipping a bit.
Click to expand...
Wait, seriously?

I think Hamas can still get their hands on heavy mortars like that, but it's pretty damning.

It's also NOT a Quassam rocket like some here have claimed.
 
MacNille said:
Hamas does not only has shitty 81 mm mortars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Affair
http://www.timesofisrael.com/pflp-chief-says-syria-iran-hezbollah-armed-hamas/
It is not far fetch to think that they can have heavy calibers.
And as I was looking up on the range of the 81 mm (the soviet used 82 mm but whatever) and the maximum range of them are 3 km. They must have mortars of more heavy caliber to reach Israels towns that are in range of them:
rocketrange.jpg
Click to expand...
Assuming that Hamas/Islamic Jihad (or, rather, the al-Quds Brigade) actually employ heavy mortars (which I doubt, since they're a bit too cumbersome/heavy to deploy/withdraw quickly by light forces compared to medium and light mortars) as opposed to using the bombs for improvised devices, I don't see why they would use NATO-pattern material (especially since their weaponry is Soviet, so the ammo wouldn't fit) rather than much cheaper and readily-available from dubious dealers Soviet-pattern munitions (which have 10 stabilising fins).

Soviet-pattern 120 mm mortar bomb. Note the 10 fin arrangement:

5_wa.jpg


The tail fragment held by the guy came from a Soltam K6.
 
Linkhero1 said:
I'm left wondering what does Israel have to gain from any of this. At this point, they don't really seem to care that they've hit UN shelters.
Click to expand...

It's terror. They want no place to feel safe. Drones buzzing the area close enough the buzz can be heard loundly from the ground. Attacking people where there should be shelter (Mosques, hospitals, shelters etc) attacking people at leasure on the beach, and at markets. Isreal hits basic infrastructure such as power, factories, and leveling residential blocs. They want things to get so bad that either Hamas capitulates or is overthrown.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

25+ dead in a terrorist attack that targeted tourists, Hindus
2 3
121
416
SpearHea.:D replied
New School Music Thread
20
829
Audiophile replied
  • Locked
Another Memecoin scam
16
1K
Cyberpunkd replied
  • Locked
Israel-Hamas cease-fire, hostage release deal reached
2 3 4
179
9K
j0hnnix replied
  • Locked
Psycologist Kills 5, Injures 40 in Christmas Market Attack in Germany
News 
31
2K
sono replied
Top Bottom