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[FloatOn]

I was thinking about the whole Kojima/Konami situation this morning and granted I've never been a huge fan of MGS it does seem like a bad move for Konami to lose the father of Metal Gear but the more I think about it.... I think I may be warming up to the idea.

As the thread title suggests, there are instances where a change of hands could be for the better. After 4 mainline devil may cry games the formula became pretty stale imo so when DmC came it was a breath of fresh air. Same went for Castlevania, as much as I love metroidvania style games I was starting to get bored of the Iga games and so Lords of the Shadow came at just the right time.

I get that it bums the diehard fans out that have grown accustomed to a certain style of play or a certain style of writing from Kojima and his crew but sometimes a passing of the torch is necessary for fan favorite franchises to evolve. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that while the circumstances sound pretty bad, it may end up being for the best.

 

[GuardianE]

I think both of those games were worse than their predecessors.

 

[nbnt]

Yeah, it sure worked for these two.. :|

 

[Soulflarz]

I think both of those games were worse than their predecessors.

.

And dmc1-4 isnt the best example since it already changed hands, sort of.
Kamiya wasnt around for dmcs after 1 after all.

 

[Foffy]

It worked for Castlevania?

Aren't Mirror of Fate AND Lords of Shadow 2 considered critically and commercially bad games? The first game almost sold like a fluke if you compared it to the sequels following it, and a lot of its hype came from a certain man who will no longer be at Konami after The Phantom Pain.

You used a very bad example. In fact, the situation with Castlevania is exactly what's at risk with Metal Gear: a literal wolf in sheeps clothing affair, running on a brand name and fuck all else sincerely.

 

[Asd202]

Are you for real OP?

 

[ittoryu]

I think both of those games were worse than their predecessors.

Yep.

 

[Hystzen]

Errr not good examples really both went down pretty badly with fans and sales lol

 

[Fisty]

Yeah after the death threats during MGS4 production, it might be smarter for him to leave the franchise behind this way, and MGS games can still be released without him. Plus we might get Kojima as an indie. Not the best outcome for MG, but maybe the best for Kojima.

 

[Alcoholikaust]

I was starting to get bored of the Iga games and so Lords of the Shadow came at just the right time.

Oh dear.

 

[CorporateClown]

Lol no offence, but I think that's terrible and your examples are terrible too.

 

[Carbonox]

It worked for DMC and Castlevania? :lol

 

[Xater]

What worked for those? They were worse than what came before.

 

[JehutyRunner]

Lords of Shadow only worked because Kojima and Kojima Productions were involved. Why do you think Lords of Shadow 2 was as tripe as it was when it was just MercurySteam?

 

[ZeroMaverick]

I don't think it's ever worked. Ever.

 

[georly]

If MGS1 is SOTN, and non kojima MG is Lords of Shadow, consider me done w/ metal gear after 5. It was ok, but it wasn't a castlevania game. :/

And yes, MGR is a spin-off, so it was ok, it wasn't pretending to be a mainline metal gear game.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

The last 2 castlevanias were both critical and commercial failures.

 

[BatDan]

Except they didn't work.
Especially not Lords of Shadow. At least IGA's games changed things up, Enemy souls, two playable characters, extreme difficulty.
Lords of Shadow was just every action game at the time with Shadow of the Colossus bosses.
And the sequel had horrid stealth segments.

Konami's a fucking wasteland now.

 

[Kriken]

...It worked for Castlevania? Whut?

 

[Rymuth]

You mean the two series that had reboots that all but killed 'em?

 

[LiK]

I enjoyed DmC and LoS but that's not what I want for Metal Gear. the series is tightly connected to Kojima's sense of weird and crazy so losing him means we're just getting a fan imitation.

 

[Hitokiri03]

It worked for Devil May Cry and Castlevania...

No it didn't.

 

[TGO]

LOS is different because it was over seen by KojiPro and Castlevania was already dead., DMC isn't as good as the originals so no.

 

[lherre]

Lords of Shadow only worked because Kojima and Kojima Productions were involved.

Well ... KojiPro was there to be in the credits basically to attract people to buy the game since Mercury wasn't a well-known developer studio.

 

[Kinyou]

I think both of those games were worse than their predecessors.

I'd say Lords of Shadows is the best 3D castlevania, but that's admittedly not a very high bar.

 

[J4g3r]

Spoiler

Castlevania City

 

[Seven Force]

Those are two of the worst possible examples you could have used.

 

[pizzacat]

It worked for DmC and LoS, yea they worked as much as my copy of MCC on launch

 

[Forkball]

I think story is a big part of it. No one really cares that much about Castlevania's or DMC's overarching story, but a lot of people do in regards to MGS despite it being absolutely insane and making no sense. Also, Kojima is seen more of an auteur game developer, so taking his franchise away and giving it to someone else could mean that many elements we like about the series may not be present in future installments.

 

[Akiller]

Konami has no Itsuno.

 

[FloatOn]

I think both of those games were worse than their predecessors.

probably yes.

but only because we became so used to the tried and true formula. I think without the nostalgia goggles Lords of the Shadow and DmC will probably fair better than what most people care to admit.

 

[Risk Breaker]

It worked wonderfully, OP. LOL

 

[Barry Burton]

Those are two of the worst possible examples you could have used.

.

 

[Nibel]

Well thanks for worrying me even more

 

[James Scott]

Castlevania:LoS started off decently, but 2 out of the 3 games (the 2 latest ones) are hot garbage
People aren't too happy with DmC either, at least the pre DE.
Also, look at RE 5 and 6.
(Also, ironically, Castlevania LoS got help from Kojima. Or at least they used his name in marketing material)

 

[robotzombie]

hahaha, wow I thought this was going to be about DMC still being good after Kamiya and Castlevania going into Symphony of the Night

 

[Orakio Rob]

Castlevania and Devil May Cry are great, but Metal Gear is a very peculiar game. You can almost see Kojima through it. Maybe Konami can actually create excellent Metal Gear games, but they will surely feel very different.

 

[Ban Puncher]

It worked for Devil May Cry and Castlevania

 

[Morfeo]

I think both of those games were worse than their predecessors.

Definitely.

 

[Foffy]

I'd say Lords of Shadows is the best 3D castlevania, but that's admittedly not a very high bar.

It really isn't a high bar at all. Strangely enough, I liked the N64 game most, if only for the atmosphere. The N64 fog contributed heavily to a feeling of isolation in a big castle.

Well ... KojiPro was there to be in the credits basically to attract people to buy the game since Mercury wasn't a well-known developer studio.

They also actually helped on the game. From assisting with enhancing models, to playtesting, to even a trailer made by Hideo Kojima himself, which made the game look astronomically better than what it was.

 

[SerTapTap]

If MGS1 is SOTN, and non kojima MG is Lords of Shadow, consider me done w/ metal gear after 5. It was ok, but it wasn't a castlevania game. :/

And yes, MGR is a spin-off, so it was ok, it wasn't pretending to be a mainline metal gear game.

Yup. And while IMO these are bad examples anyway, gameplay-driven games are easier to change developers without harm. Silent Hill was majorly harmed by losing Team Silent because the narrative and atmosphere and such were so important. MGS is batshit insane but the batshit insanity is still important to the series IMO. And there's usually some good dramatic bits in with the insanity as well.

hahaha, wow I thought this was going to be about DMC still being good after Kamiya and Castlevania going into Symphony of the Night

Yeah I thought SOTN would be OP's turning point, which would have been a far better point...

 

[Fury451]

You should know why. Not really comparable examples.

I get what you're saying, but MGS doesn't need a "fresh direction", Kojima frequently changed all sorts of things up (for better and worse at times). If anything it needs to just end because all story will be told after V (I would speculate), aside from The Boss's origins.

 

[The Jackdog]

i love the irony of kojima being involved in the castlevania update

 

[GlassEmpires]

DmC: Definitive Edition is closer to a breath of fresh air, but is ultimately more of an apology given the breadth of fixes made to the vanilla game. And these fixes include directorial changes like removal of dialogue and bowler hats.

Lords of Shadow has incredible backgrounds at times, but it's combat precedes DmC vanillas colour-coded-combat.

And both of these are a reboot of the series and are considered to be ineffectual ones at that. This formula does not bode well for Metal Gear.

 

[StarStabbedMoon]

You lost me at "it worked for Devil May Cry and Castlevania."

 

[Skii]

You picked two examples where it clearly didn't work lol.

 

[Betty]

But both those franchises are in limbo due to the mostly underperforming/poor receiving of the latest titles.

This is KONAMI, they will fuck. it. up.

 

[FourMyle]

Every Castlevania I played after SOTN was was boring, repetitive and barely a step up from the PS1 game, but I doubt you will find many people willing to agree on that point because you mentioned Lords of Shadow. Even the god damn Dynasty Warriors games changed up their formula more than all those crappy post SOTN Castlevania games, lol.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Lords of Shadow only worked because Kojima and Kojima Productions were involved. Why do you think Lords of Shadow 2 was as tripe as it was when it was just MercurySteam?

This this this

DmC was the same case, Itsuno helped NT a lot. DmC DE shows NT has some hope if the franchise stays in their hands but that's yet to be seen. Meanwhile Mercury Steam managed to kill Castlevania permanently.

 

[Anteater]

You forgot Yaiba and Lost Planet 3.

Although in terms of direction, if you're talking about just style change, they didn't end up that bad, and they do play fine imo.

For Metal Gear I'm really not that sad about it and I actually look forward to seeing what Kojima would work on next, as far as the metal gear franchise itself, I'm not sure what to expect but I'm open for a new game, could end up good or bad, but it might possibly lose what made metal gear... metal gear.