It worked for Devil May Cry and Castlevania... why couldn't it work for Metal Gear?

And hot off the presses in MCV, from the PAL Charts thread:
Mpl90 said:
From latest MCV issue

DmC: Definitive Edition sold "28.8% of the Week One sales of the original release".
Click to expand...

Now remember that DmC failed to meet expectations originally too.
 
There's no reason why it couldn't "work". Realistically I don't think it's an argument against anything based in logic. Franchises are never tied down to individual creators. The reason why people are falling on their swords and going into rage/depression/denial is because it just happens that one person was at the helm of this franchise for such a long time. It's been like 30 years. That's a long fucking time.

In a few years, if they're still making Metal Gear games, there'll be people playing them and enjoying them, and there will probably still be a bunch of people going "LOL Konami just keeps making it worse it's been downhill since Kojima left fuck this shit!". Just like every popular franchise out there. Some things never change. :P
 
99% sure OP is being sarcastic. Those two franchises are excellent examples of cherished series going downhill after creative leadership changes.
 
OP cites two examples where the reboots are generally considered far worse than the predecessors while simultaneously demonstrating that he/she has absolutely terrible taste in videogames. Awesome post, good job.
 
duckroll said:
In a few years, if they're still making Metal Gear games, there'll be people playing them and enjoying them, and there will probably still be a bunch of people going "LOL Konami just keeps making it worse it's been downhill since Kojima left fuck this shit!". Just like every popular franchise out there. Some things never change. :P
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Well since they are not making Castlevania games anymore, that is a good indication of the future. Some things never change... until it does. Metal Gear as a franchise will die, and the ip locked in the vaults and forgotten. I predict this because that is what Konami does to franchises they no longer care for.
 
I'm almost finished with DmC and I've only played DMC4 otherwise, but I would much rather have had another game by the DMC4 team over Ninja Theory. I think there are a lot of downsides to DmC.
 
RealityExists said:
I don't get while people keep bringing up numbers.... as if that is some metric for whether a game is good or not. Call of Duty sells an insane amount of copies and I think that game is horrible.

And I don't think MGS has ever been considered a hardcore stealth game. Wouldn't that be something more akin to the original Thief games?

Personally I'd love to see a metal gear game developed by Arkane Studios (dishonored devs) but that is probably a long shot.
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It means that fans didn't like it. That's the only metric that matters when you're talking about a long-running franchise.

Numbers can tell you a lot. Halo 4 sold about the same as Reach and Halo 3 first month, but the online numbers fell off a cliff soon after, indicating that 343 completely dropped the ball on the multiplayer. Since that's a huge cornerstone for the franchise, it was of tantamount importance that the multiplayer beta in Halo 5 win back some good will.

Metal Gear can be as hardcore as you want it to be. Extreme mode has insta-fail states for simply being spotted after all.

Edit: as has been posted, there are much better examples of games switching devs with some success.

Metroid
Fzero
Donkey Kong
Killer Instinct
Deus Ex

And then some awful ones:

Ninja Gaiden
Sonic
Star Fox
Steel Batallion
 
As others have vocalized, both of those franchises took steep nosedives in quality. Hell, Castlevania had one decent game, Lords of Shadow, before it went back to mediocrity (and many would argue it never left mediocrity even with LoS). The level of quality between those two franchises was wildly inconsistent.

Another example is Ninja Gaiden. We've already see what happened with 3. So really, there's not a good precedent set for what Konami is trying to do.
 
I hate this idea that some people have that if you don't want a franchise you enjoy to "mix up the formula," then you are "afraid of change."

No, I'm not afraid of change. I like XYZ franchise for reasons. Why would I want it to suddenly become different.

If I want different, I play another game.
 
OP based on your two examples.. I don´t know what reality are you talking about, but I don't think it exists.


In the particular case of MGS, if you try to distill what that franchise is...you start to realize that Kojima's vision (bat shit craziness) is what holds the package together. Sure, its an interesting stealth game, it usually pushes the envelope technically... but the idea of an MGS without Kojima.. I just don't see it.
 
Jeez OP. There are way, way, WAY, WAY better examples out there for what you're trying to say:

Fallout 3
Metroid Prime
Kid Icarus Uprising
Prince of Persia: Sands of Time
F-Zero GX
Donkey Kong Country Returns
Killer Instinct (on Xbox One)
Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon
Punch-Out Wii
Etc.
 
duckroll said:
There's no reason why it couldn't "work". Realistically I don't think it's an argument against anything based in logic. Franchises are never tied down to individual creators. The reason why people are falling on their swords and going into rage/depression/denial is because it just happens that one person was at the helm of this franchise for such a long time. It's been like 30 years. That's a long fucking time.

In a few years, if they're still making Metal Gear games, there'll be people playing them and enjoying them, and there will probably still be a bunch of people going "LOL Konami just keeps making it worse it's been downhill since Kojima left fuck this shit!". Just like every popular franchise out there. Some things never change. :P
Click to expand...

With all due respect MGS = Kojima. There's a certain level of quirkiness and attention to detail that only Kojima can provide (Not to mention he created the series ) . People wouldn't have an issue if he oversaw future games ala kevin feige or maybe he could be a producer role while he works on something else. His stamp of approval on MGS related stuff is what matters after TPP releases i assure you longtime fans won't care what comes next.
 
Is the OP having a laugh? I've never heard of a single person who thinks either of those series are better off in recent years.
 
Peltz said:
Jeez OP. There are way, way, WAY, WAY better examples out there for what you're trying to say:

Fallout 3
.
Click to expand...

I swear most people liking Fallout 3 never played the previous ones. Another bad example
unlike the rest of your list
.
 
Eolz said:
I swear most people liking Fallout 3 never played the previous ones. Another bad example
unlike the rest of your list
.
Click to expand...

Nope, played them both and adore 3 as well as its own thing. The other thing it has going for it is that both 3 and New Vegas did well in terms of sales, so the direction at least worked for the publisher which is what Konami obviously hopes.
 
I was looking for the old classic Kevin Spacey wrong building apocalypse gif but couldn't find it. This will have to do.

giphy-3.gif
 
Branson said:
I fucking loved DmC and DMC1 so I don't really care. I thought the most recent DmC was fantastic. More of that please.
Click to expand...

Thank god Capcom hear to reasons and is going to release DMC4SE, Week 1 of that should outsell DmC + DmC DE combined and that will be the last time we heard of Capcom outsourcing DMC.
 
the "change of director" for devil may cry was actually immediately after DMC1 and that game is so bad the fanbase doesn't even recognize it's existence.

DmC is a game I like, but DMC3 and 4 were the better games, disregarding how terrible old dante actually is.

and Lords of shadow wasn't the "new direction" for Castlevania after iga, it was "the return to 3d castlevania" after the last bad ones. It was also a soft reboot of the franchise, and had a lot of hype because of the supposed direct involvement of Kojima

Look at Resident Evil once MIkami left. they just now made a decent game out of the series

And NONE of those series relies on the guy in charge as heavily as Metal Gear does. I really liked Rising and think the gameplay is fantastic, But I didn't listen to any codec sequences and the story is absolutely a blank spot in my recollection of that game. The senator had quotable lines and the sombrero and dog shit is great but those aren't even close to Kojima levels of craziness that gets me invested into the series.
 
DmC was a great game, but I'm pretty sure it didn't turn out super great for Capcom, financially.

Lords of Shadow is the best 3D Castlevania ever made, but then they shit the bed with LoS2.
 
duckroll said:
There's no reason why it couldn't "work". Realistically I don't think it's an argument against anything based in logic. Franchises are never tied down to individual creators. The reason why people are falling on their swords and going into rage/depression/denial is because it just happens that one person was at the helm of this franchise for such a long time. It's been like 30 years. That's a long fucking time.

In a few years, if they're still making Metal Gear games, there'll be people playing them and enjoying them, and there will probably still be a bunch of people going "LOL Konami just keeps making it worse it's been downhill since Kojima left fuck this shit!". Just like every popular franchise out there. Some things never change. :P
Click to expand...

Exactly.

tensuke said:
Metal Gear is dead.
Click to expand...

To the majority of the existing fanbase maybe.
 
Led_Zeppelin said:
Thank god Capcom hear to reasons and is going to release DMC4SE, Week 1 of that should outsell DmC + DmC DE combined and that will be the last time we heard of Capcom outsourcing DMC.
Click to expand...
I think it just really was a fun game. I loved the art direction and level design. I never played 4 so I can't comment on that. I can kinda see why hardcore fans of the series don't like it, I guess. But I had a great time with it when I played it. I was entertained and fuck it, that's what games are for.
 
It has already been said numerous times but holy crap OP you could not have picked two worse examples. Especially since the LoS series effectively killed Castlevania.
 
Really awful examples. DmC was no where close to the standard of quality the series' fans expected and has taken two years to make a new edition to fix most of what was wrong with it and regain lost fanbase. It also sold extremely poor coming off the highest selling game in the franchise. LoS could have been a decent series but then it was killed in it's infancy by a terrible 2nd entry that had extremely misguided changes to it's game design and visual designs.
 
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