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Italy refuses port entry of migrant filled ship, Malta also nopes out
- Thread starter bucyou
- Start date
TheShadowLord
Member
It's also worth knowing that Spain took them in, completely void in tc's title
Hoya Destroyer
Member
I never thought those countries would learn to say no. Maybe they are beginning to understand that they cant save everyone on the planet?
D
Deleted member 713885
Unconfirmed Member
But what will happen to all these women and children!!
Gander
Banned
If the world was more together or at least moving in that direction it's easier burden to share. However with the European Union where it is, Trump going crazy with his polices and tariffs and Israel and Palestine at each others throats more so than usual. There is just too much economic uncertainty. Nobody wants to take on any extra problems.
JordanN
Banned
It shouldn't even be about extra problems but addressing why they exist in the first place.
I feel like this is what has made me a bit more anti-immigration over the years. We can't keep flooding countries without asking why are they fleeing them in the first place?
bucyou
Member
It's how I felt about the Italians when they came to the US. And look at them now, mafia hooligans. They will never change.
A few are still bad apples but, a lot of them worked hard to prove they weren't. Things were different then.
What was different again?
5secondrulesucks
Banned
no one needs to be burdened by other peoples problems
Dee Dah Dave
Member
It’s nice to help people but Europe can’t just take in the entire world. Otherwise before you know it Europe no longer exists, and what has that achieved?
Yay we have increased the size of the Middle East and shrunk the size of the West. A very ‘progressive’ move for the future of the human race. /s
Yay we have increased the size of the Middle East and shrunk the size of the West. A very ‘progressive’ move for the future of the human race. /s
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JordanN
Banned
This example doesn't quite work. The USA had a lot more European influence (hell, the Americas was literally a European melting pot. See French Louisiana, Spanish Florida, the Anglo and Dutch Colonies).
Sakura Doritos
Member
Don't think so, It looks to be a red bandana that has been overwashed in a ring shape but is at a bad angle. Others are wearing garments in a similar manor.
@picture
I wonder how many women and children are on board. CNN was quick to point out they are below deck while the men are on top. But they only showed 2... on deck under an awning.
If there are just as many women and children as men then PKM is being a jerk. But if CNN is withholding numbers because its like 10 to 1 and would break the narrative of 'families' then it would be another case of the media adjusting their reports to suite their narrative.
nephilimdj
Member
Should be shipped to France, they are the ones behind the Libya resulting mess of male Africans being executed daily
Cybrwzrd
Banned
Oh, like my ancestors? My great grandfather was in the Mafia. Moved rum between Chicago and Des Moines. But they assimilated to US culture. Learned English. Put their children in college. They put being American before being Italian.
Like it or not, there is a vast difference between modern economic immigrants and those of the past: they gave up their identity (but kept it too) to become that of their host country - when in Rome, do as the Romans. If you expect another country to accept you, you adapt to their culture. Yes, you can bring your own, and often it is adopted. But expecting them to change for you is insane. The most successful immigrants to the US adapt. The groups who fail refuse to change.
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The difference is that we have statistics also Italians and Americans are not that far Appart in terms of culture. These people are and many with their morals and beliefs do not fit into Europe. Here is the deal how Americans take randomly 1 million of these refugees in. And let’s see what happens.
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King of Foxes
Banned
Good, I hope more countries do the same.
ruvikx
Banned
In their shoes I'd go home, or somewhere nearer to home with people of my own race, culture & religion. I certainly wouldn't be floating around in the Mediterranean attempting to illegally enter into a foreign country/continent. Here's the crux: these people have countries, i.e. it's not Europe's responsibility to take tens of millions of impoverished Africans into our nations & thus sacrifice our own countries.
This ship could be turned around immediately & sent back to Libya, but nope, we see the lying media & their extremist anti-European cohorts once again attempting to pull heart strings with a totally non-believable sob story about poor black people who somehow believe they have a 'right' to settle in Europe. This was never voted for, i.e. we never agreed to this reality. At worst these people enter Europe & commit crimes/live on welfare, at best they get jobs - yet in doing so (flooding the job market with more labor) they drive down wages, not to mention adding extra strain on resources & social services here.
If the motivating factor truly was the wellbeing of Africans, the elites would help them in Africa - not import them just as a means by which they can wage a demographic war on Europe from within.
TTOOLL
Member
So why don't open your house to homeless people? Try to put yourself in their shoes...
Protip: your discourse is beautiful, but that's not realistic at all.
ruvikx
Banned
That would be the genocide of Europe & our extermination, basically. Apparently the so-called 'right side of history' self-proclaimed humanist no-borders Antifa crowd somehow rejoice at that prospect. As we can see, some lives & races are considered more 'human' than others - with white Europeans now being deemed subhumans who need 'uplifting' via an African/Middle-Eastern lebensraum in Europe.
Merkel, Macron & all their ilk are essentially reverse Nazis. Remember how we were all taught about ze evil German colonization plans in eastern Europe? Yeah well, apparently when it's African & Muslim colonization of the west, it's all A-Okay. It's sickening hypocrisy driven by an outright hatred of Europe.
King of Foxes
Banned
Try to imagine your peoples homeland being flooded with people of a different religion and culture that have no respect for women. Thats life for us here in the EU.
Thank god the Baltics have such poor welfare, we in Latvia took in 6 refugee families and all but one left to Germany and are now reportedly on welfare there
TheKingOfPain
Member
Look at yourself now, defamer. You'll never change.
Try to imagine yourself on the receiving hand. I'm all about trying to help people, but we're being flooded with migrants and there's no way we can substain this situation for much longer.
CampbellzSoup
Member
Meal ticket is over. We want to help everyone not be taken advantage of.
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Nicktendo86
Member
To be clear here Italy are still accepting migrants, it is the NGO boats they are refusing which pick up people just a couple of miles from the coast of Libya and take them all the way to Italy. It is the people smuggling they are trying to stop.
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ruvikx
Banned
Two wrongs don't make a right.
All they want for the most part is a better life. They are not pursued in their country they just want for the most part the benefits we have. Life is not always fair but there is a limit here. In Germany for example we already have many schools with 90% immigration children. The immigration percentage right now in Germany is 30% this is not a small feed. And lets be hones here. land in Italy they want to go to Germany.
But why does America not take a few hundred thousand people in who have no really future, no real change of a job etc.
This is the biggest issue I have its 80-90% young men and if you try to believe that such a huge influence of men who are from a different culture do not cause trouble you are pretty naive. Families sure. young males No Germany was destroyed after WW2 but what we did is that we build our own country. Instead of fleeing b establish a future for other generations in your own country.
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I don't think you've genuinely tried to imagine yourself in their situation.
Yeah, those 120 unaccompanied minors and seven pregnant women are just a bunch of criminals. Why should any country welcome them?
Why do you think they're leaving those countries? For a holiday?
Sure, no one really has any responsibility to do anything, if you're ok with being unempathetic. But lets not mention anything about the international law which actually does state the responsibilities countries in Europe have...
Whoops, fuck. I just went and did it. Ignore that, go back to waving the "legal/illegal" card around, and cherry pick what you want.
Generally, countries in Europe are doing much better than these other countries, that migrants and refugees are leaving, and are able to assist them in setting up a new life. That's why these international laws exist.
You think that they think they have a 'right' to settle in Europe? That's how you read this? Huh... I see people, hat in hand, desperately begging to not be sent back and given a chance to start a new life. What gives you the impression that they are so arrogant to believe they have this 'right'?
You know that every decision in a democracy isn't put to a vote right? The population actually did agree to this by voting for governments that signed agreements with the UN.
Yeah, not like all the good, upstanding, law abiding folk that already live there...
The economics of it aren't that simple. More working people equals more money in the economy too. It might be more of a strain on social services for those that don't find work, but as I mentioned earlier, European countries are in a better position to help these people, if they want to. Also, it's worth noting that social services, in most countries, are not that big a percent of the national budget compared to other things. Conservative governments purposely slash social service funding precisely so they can say, "They're too strained! We can't take on more people." They can, they just don't want to because it doesn't appeal to their base.
Who are these elites exactly? I thought it was those in power in the government? You know... the people who are stopping these boats from docking? They're going to help the people in Africa by sending money and resources over there? I thought you were worried about strain on resources. I really have no idea what you're trying to say.
What's the motivation for waging a "demographic war"?
This is such a disingenuous argument and a poor analogy. My home is not my country.
In Australia we're fed a constant stream of lies and propaganda about "stopping the boats!" from our current conservative government, so it's easy to "imagine", particularly if you WANT it to be true.
Yeah, because the sorts of conservative governments that do this stuff are great proponents of women's rights.
Wait, what? You're happy about that?
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite the face.
What are you basing this on? Why can't it be sustained much longer? How much longer? What are the limiting factors? How does it compare to previous rates of migration?
Or did you just swallow the Kool Aid because you liked the taste?
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...p/Migration_and_migrant_population_statistics
Maybe Malta (#3) has a case for sending people away, but Italy (#24) certainly doesn't. Given how low Italy is on that ranking compared to all the other countries, I wonder why they're sending these people away... could it have something to do with Matteo Salvini, an anti-immigration politician? Maybe, I don't know... could be possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Europe#Statistic_data_on_immigrant_populations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate
http://www.un.org/en/development/de...eport/docs/MigrationReport2017_Highlights.pdf
Italy never ranks at the top in various lists, yet they feel justified in turning a boat load of people away (ignoring their obligations to international law) because they're being 'flooded' with immigrants.
Maybe I'm being fed a lot of lies and turned into a limp wristed lefty with a bleeding heart, but the data doesn't seem to back that up. Maybe consider that you are being lied to, but you're happy to accept it because it fits with your existing biases, prejudices, and fears. It's hard to be mad at you though. Confirmation bias is a bitch. <3
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Lanrutcon
Member
Oh. My bad. Based on some of the responses in this thread I thought this was an ethics-free zone.
ruvikx
Banned
Your entire post is merely a crazed justification for the destruction of the European people. End of. In terms of International law, illegal aliens are illegal, i.e. we have zero obligation to open our borders to anyone (in such numbers it's essentially an invasion & none of them are within the Schengen area), especially peoples whose demographic expansion is left utterly unchecked (they breed without concern for long term sustainability), likewise even the UN has an indigenous peoples act which should theoretically ensure our protection (unless you're one of those nutters who pretends white Europeans aren't indigenous to western Europe?): https://en.unesco.org/indigenous-peoples/undrip
Neither people such as yourself nor the people entering Europe have either a moral or legal leg to stand on. Admit it, you simply hate Europe & whish to Africanise us. That's all. You're fuelled by hatred, i.e. hate which you project onto normal folk who reject a foreign invasion of their own ancestral land in order to mask your own contempt for us. As for the 'have sympathy!' shtick, what about sympathy for our own people who're facing diminishing returns in terms of wages, opportunities & social services as a result of these new arrivals flooding our streets? (crime is skyrocketing as well) You mention 120 minors, yet ignore the fact there's 600 on the ship, i.e. most of whom are grown ass men!
You're so quick to paint them as benevolent do-gooders seeking a better life, whilst painting us as haters. News flash: your worldview is tainted by crass indoctrination planted in your head by criminals. If everyone in the world deemed it 'rightful' to export themselves by millions to whichever land is prosperous at that particular moment in time (Europe isn't even as prosperous as before, ironically), our entire planet would descend into chaos & war.
"Oh, China looks like they're on the up, so come on chaps, let's all head to China & take their jobs, women & build our communities there. When they object, we'll call them bigots! Great idea!".
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Panda1
Banned
But never you! its impossible that you are being misled! p.s Do you live in the US?
You have no idea what you are talking about.... You can argue with feelings and empathy as much as you want but the problems only get bigger. For example in 201 already 45% f Italian people think that its better for their country to leave the European Union. Not only because they are pleading for help and do not get any from the EU
In 2016 they took 180k in middle of 2017 the counter had already reached 85k and that was before Summer. And Also the more you take the more the message spreads that they will take people in who want a better life. You just can not destory a whole country or the complete European union because of feelings. They are causing political and economical and social l instabilities no country can master
But as someone said already. If you want to take refugees in I bet you can do that in your house.
MisterFalcon
Member
There is also virtually no work for an unskilled worker in Western Europe, unlike early 20th century America.
Lanrutcon
Member
Just to confirm that I haven't completely misread this:
Europeans: normal folk who reject a foreign invasion and just want to protect their ancestral land.
Africans: hate-filled invaders with contempt for the native population.
Did I get that right?
CampbellzSoup
Member
Of course that’s the left spin on things. Yes that’s exactly what is going on.
TheShadowLord
Member
They could put them in refugee centers providing it get's all the funding it needs. And not end up like this:
bucyou
Probably, as I would use CNN's headline but I shouldn't have said that without being ass.
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ruvikx
Banned
Native American Indians: normal folk who reject a foreign invasion and just want to protect their ancestral land
European colonialists: hate-filled invaders with contempt for the native population.
Does that ring a bell? Hallo?
You simply cannot turn an accepted universal morality upside down when it suits your political bias. Europe is our home, our land. We're Avatar's Na'vi in this scenario:
It has nothing to do with hate filled. The cultural difference are vastly different and what would you do if you would come to a country for a better life and suddenly realizing that this is not possible due to my education resources etc. The only thing they can do right now is to sit in a refugee camp and wait for 2 years to maybe get a cahance of a better life if they even get accepted which is highly doubtful looking from which countries there people come. This will cause boredom, anger etc. We have daily police forces in Refugecamps.
In fact you are not helping these people you give them false hope of a future they will never have. Who is the cruel one here? The ones rejecting outright or letting them in, let them sit there for 2 years and then reject them?
Lanrutcon
Member
But that's what he said? Which is why I asked for clarification.
Your American Indian comparison is spot on. They were invaded by Europeans with contempt for the native population. I'm not sure how that helps your point, however. It seems that there are an awful lot of examples of Europeans doing the very thing you're complaining about, only in a more organised fashion. But I get it. You love your home, you want to defend your home. I live in a country where we have a long history of xenophobia and related violence. I wish you and yours the best of luck.
I agree that it's has nothing to do with hate, at least from the immigrant's side. I was quoting someone else.
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Cybrwzrd
Banned
Blaming modern Europeans for the "sins" of their ancestors is ridiculous (and it isn't like the Germans and Italians, let alone eastern Europeans were the ones out colonizing). The indigenous population of the Americas were doomed no matter what with first contact with Eurasian diseases.
You may not like hearing it, but opposed to the modern narrative of evil European invaders killing every Indian they could find, but the European "conquest" of the Americas was mostly accomplished through the initial unintentional spread of disease. The Spanish did awful things in the south, but at the same time, they ended up preserving more of the native population than the British through their "intermingling" and total conquest and subjugation of the native population. As for the British, with their more hands off approach, by the time they began actual colonization, North America was already nearly depopulated from the spread of disease. Had the native population been more resilient to European disease, there never would have been the need to import slave workers from Africa.
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HarryKS
Member
ruvikx
Banned
Avatar is a funny analogy because many people claimed the message was liberal (with a noble indigenous people protecting their land). I actually loved the movie, for what it's worth. Now, when Europe endures a real-life similar scenario we're labelled bad guys. From my point of view Europe's humanistic values born from the entire enlightenment era have been distorted, manipulated & turned against us by human traffickers, usurpers, lairs & other such criminals who want to change Europe's demographics in order to feed their own wealth & power. They throw images of African women & children crying on TV & expect all sense to be thrown out the window via emotional manipulation. It's psychotic. Remember, these same TV networks covered up the Cologne rapes & many other such incidents. Africans & Muslims illegally entering Europe = good, Europeans who want to preserve our land & way of life = bad. It's all over the mainstream media 24/7 & is now the 'official' stance of the EU.
Hungary is just the start of the pushback, i.e. normal folks who'll make a normal stand against this insanity.