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Italy refuses port entry of migrant filled ship, Malta also nopes out
- Thread starter bucyou
- Start date
In your opinion. where it is going? Italy asked since years for help from the EU an never got it. Italy did way more than enough. You can not destroy a whole countries for the sake of others.
Skyn3t
Banned
Poland, where I live, took some migrants and nothing good came from it. Just look at the rapes in German and some Scandinavian countries. Helping refugees is one thing, but young, healthy men? Really? They should fight for their country? We Poles fought numerous of times, bleed, safrifice, but hey, we're here still kicking and developing to be one of the mightiest countries in Central-Eastern Europe. Warsaw Uprising anyone? Children fought the German elite SS and Gestapo divisions, without supplies, without weapons. Sticks agianst tanks. Why? To honour the nation, fatherland, to give hope. Fast forward couple of years later Poland broke the chain of USSR and was on the lead of freedom for many counties in the Central/Eastern Europe block. People fought and died for their (my country) in thousands and I'm proud of that.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
So they didn't slaughter a bunch and then toss the rest onto reservations?
Ok.
Cybrwzrd
Banned
That was long after their population was decimated from disease. And the Indians did plenty of slaughtering of their own. Most of the violence against Native Americans in the north was due to reciprocal violence. The Europeans vastly outnumbered the Natives by that time.
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<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
That makes it better?
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
I hope the migrants were able to make it to a safe port.
I also hope Europe and North Africa can pause, get their heads out of their asses, and approach this with discussion and democracy.
Shutting down the ports is a crazy reaction, but the problem itself is also a crazy problem. The longer that politicians fold their arms on the sidelines and remark: "Isn't it rather racist to not let them flood over?" the longer everyone in this situation will suffer. If the "humanitarians" are so concerned about the migrants' wellbeing, why are they being smuggled over? Set them up for success by naturalizing them the right way, according to the country's own laws and processes, and getting them involved in educational programs so they can be a benefit to the society they're joining. We expect as much of our own children as they grow up. It's okay -- and it's not racist, believe it or not -- to hold Full-grown adults to higher standards as they join the West.
I also hope Europe and North Africa can pause, get their heads out of their asses, and approach this with discussion and democracy.
Shutting down the ports is a crazy reaction, but the problem itself is also a crazy problem. The longer that politicians fold their arms on the sidelines and remark: "Isn't it rather racist to not let them flood over?" the longer everyone in this situation will suffer. If the "humanitarians" are so concerned about the migrants' wellbeing, why are they being smuggled over? Set them up for success by naturalizing them the right way, according to the country's own laws and processes, and getting them involved in educational programs so they can be a benefit to the society they're joining. We expect as much of our own children as they grow up. It's okay -- and it's not racist, believe it or not -- to hold Full-grown adults to higher standards as they join the West.
TheWatcher
Banned
Dial back the racism a few notches please.
Jesus, people still bringing up the 'noble savage' trope to shame Europeans into accepting third world savages? The aboriginal populations of North America were backwards, savage, and not as noble as post-modernists say. Slavery in Canada was originally an aboriginal institution. Aboriginal tribes exterminated and enslaved each other long before the Europeans arrived. Instead of honouring treaty land... they should honour the taxpayers. We have given billions of dollars in aid to aboriginal groups, and most of this money is being funnelled by corrupt Tribal leaders. Nobody dares mention this though. Why not?
Cybrwzrd
Banned
Better?
It happened. It isn't a value proposition.
That is just nature. Humans are animals. Extinction is eventual to all things. The better adapted survive. The natives were in the way of a larger, more advanced and capable population. Look what happened in Central America. The natives survived because they adapted. North American natives went all Mad Max and were essentially wiped out by a stronger force.
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Lanrutcon
Member
I'm curious. In actual face to face conversation with, let's say, a black person around the topic of slavery or a Jewish person around the topic of genocide...have you tried voicing that line of reasoning? "It's just nature, the better adapted, humans are animals, etc etc".
Serious question.
TheWatcher
Banned
I have yes. Europeans enslaved other Europeans long before the establishment of the slave trade. Genocides took place in history during periods of armed conflict long before World War 2. What makes Jews, Aboriginals, and Blacks so special?
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Lanrutcon
Member
Asked and answered. Thank you for the frank response.
Cybrwzrd
Banned
Humans aren't animals and we haven't been subject to evolutionary pressure?
And what does the straight up industrial slaughter of people have to do with the depopulation of North America from the native's susceptibility to Eurasian disease?
TheWatcher
Banned
And before anybody says I am a racist, I happen to be the son of a refugee and an immigrant.
Lanrutcon
Member
I thought we were still on the topic of "So they didn't slaughter a bunch and then toss the rest onto reservations? " when I asked the question.
I didn't imply as such. It's just that where I am from, your opinion would cause a life changing meltdown if expressed anywhere near the workplace.
Cybrwzrd
Banned
I guess it could be kind of the same if you had roving bands of Jewish tribes slaughtering German women and children during WW2.
TTOOLL
Member
And your country is not only yours, there are many people who think we should not have open borders.
Why don't you apply your ideas to the place that belongs to you? It's so simple.
5secondrulesucks
Banned
i bet the people here who are are trying to be most accepting of these people coming in never had a surge of immigrants come and live in an area where they would either
The_Observer
Member
I said this numerous times but it's so good seeing this new Gaf that doesn't seem like an asylum, instead reasonable people discuss things objectively.
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cryptoadam
Banned
I just don't see how this is sustainable. Europe can't take in everyone and its already cracking under the weight of this migrant crisis. At one point this better life isn't going to be that much better anymore if this continues.
And how many able bodied young men are these countries losing! These countries are going to have difficulties as well. Young able bodied men are the bedrock of any country.
And how many able bodied young men are these countries losing! These countries are going to have difficulties as well. Young able bodied men are the bedrock of any country.
bucyou
Member
Its the same shit with the liberal politicians in the US. Screaming against border walls and guns while having a 10 foot high fence around their property and wont leave home without armed security.
Paging
EviLore
to come marvel at the fantastic dumpster fire that GAF is becoming as evidenced by this thread. It’s one thing to argue that perhaps the migrant situation could be handled better, but we literally got slavery/genocide apologists in this thread because “natural selection”
Wow. I mean, by that logic rape is “ok” too because the women being raped are weak and the men need to pass on their seed.
It’s really sad witnessing Gaf’s slow descent to madness. It feels like a lot of really fucked up threads have been getting closed lately like that fringy conspiracy bullshit thread a few days ago.
EviLore
to come marvel at the fantastic dumpster fire that GAF is becoming as evidenced by this thread. It’s one thing to argue that perhaps the migrant situation could be handled better, but we literally got slavery/genocide apologists in this thread because “natural selection”Wow. I mean, by that logic rape is “ok” too because the women being raped are weak and the men need to pass on their seed.
It’s really sad witnessing Gaf’s slow descent to madness. It feels like a lot of really fucked up threads have been getting closed lately like that fringy conspiracy bullshit thread a few days ago.
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bigedole
Member
Paging
Wow. I mean, by that logic rape is “ok” too because the women being raped are weak and the men need to pass on their seed.
It’s really sad witnessing Gaf’s slow descent to madness. It feels like a lot of really fucked up threads have been getting closed lately like that fringy conspiracy bullshit thread a few days ago.
Go ahead and quote someone who's saying things to make excuses for genocide and slavery. The only person making a big mental leap here is you. I'd love to hear you explain the actual logical reasoning you used to go from people saying "I'm glad european countries are finally appearing to consider the ramifications of accepting a large number of young males from completely different cultures" to "It's ok to rape women."
You want to know who actually thinks it's ok to rape women? No, of course you don't. The cognitive disonance you live with is astounding.
ok
The second quote was in reference to someone else who had suggested these things happen because humans are animals. This is clearly not true, as many humans are capable of using their massively evolved brain functions to escape animalistic tendencies, especially overtime via the concept of civilization. That's what makes us humans. I think it is really interesting that the user in question seems to acknowledge that some populations are "backwards" (i.e aborigines) while others are more enlightened (i.e white people going by his history) and yet somehow people are animals and can't change or something.
Though I'm not surprised, since he is also responsible for this gem in a thread that was locked for being shockingly racist (can't direct quote from locked threads):
But sure I'm making big mental leaps.
EDIT: also you are making some big assumptions about me with the line "You want to know who actually thinks it's ok to rape women? No, of course you don't. The cognitive disonance you live with is astounding." You don't even know what my stance on certain issues are and you are jumping to conclusions.
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bigedole
Member
Great, you found one person saying things you believe are controversial in this whole thread. The content of their posts certainly don't pass for slavery/genocide apologism, however. They can correct me if I'm wrong but the meaning I take from those quotes is "Slavery and genocide existed in places and times that were before the inlfuence of white colonialization and also between same race societies".
I honestly don't know what mental leaps you're taking, you still made no attempt to actually explain any logical reasoning you used to go from the posts in this thread to "rape is ok". I'm absolutely making assumptions about you based on the obvious slant of your posts. What else do you expect? Your idea of a gotcha is linking people you disagree with to rapists. Don't have to look hard on the internet to see who commonly employs this tactic.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
Is it (((THE LEFT)))?
I'm going to assume that you just missed the poster's patently racist post history, and that you are otherwise capable of understanding that what someone says must be taken in context of who they are as a person. However, that doesn't even matter to be honest. The idea or commentary itself that slavery/genocide existed between cultures/races because of survival pressures is kind of irrelevant because it doesn't excuse or lessen the effects that they are having on certain populations today. As humans, we have evolved to a point where we are largely able to overcome the base/destructive aspects of survival pressures (tribalism, racism, killing/fucking whatever we want) because we have benefited much more by forming stable societies that promote more harmonious relationships (which in and of itself is just another result of survival pressures).
The rape comment is a bit of a stretch, to be fair, but my point was to illustrate the pointlessness of saying things like "well people did X back then because natural selection" in response to some societal ill because we could make the same argument now, and it really wouldn't make sense. We know better as a society, which is why we make laws against these things (killing, raping, stealing, etc) and hold people accountable when they do them and try to accommodate victims where possible.
As far as the actual topic at hand, I really do think that the best way to approach this migrant situation is to have a comprehensive effort aimed at truly fixing whatever is broken in their home country. That's easier said than done, of course, but you cannot simply have people going to different countries as the only solution. My stance on religion in general (especially the Abrahamic ones like Islam, Christianity, etc) is that they are a burden to society because they place limits on critical thinking by promoting absolute obedience to authority, they are generally not open to change, and they are too subjective in interpretation. I'll just leave it at that because this is not a religion thread.
Soros himself is cutting me a check as we speak.
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Texas Pride
Banned
Getting on a ship to nowhere is stupid. They come with expectations that are expected to be met. Why? Who in their right mind does shit like that and honestly thinks that's normal or okay? It's neither. The leftists want to normalize this kinda shit and it's not acceptable to just get on a boat and expect support wherever you land. Then be outraged when countries with borders invoke their sovereignty.
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TheWatcher
Banned
Many of us normal hard working folk are simply sick and tired of being propagandized, otherized, grouped together, and being groomed for collective punishment. White people are not 'exceptional', they never exploited minorities. The elites and royal houses (crown corporations) exploited and enslaved aboriginal populations while peasants in European countries were starved, beaten, and raped. Now, transnational corporations destroy countries in the Middle East, egged on by Leftist news outlets (they all were on board with 'weapons of mass destruction' in 2002-2003), and supported by Champagne socialists (and yet corporately owned) democrats/liberals that transport the former enemy population into our countries while they spew the principles of multiculturalism in an effort to eradicate their own guilt. And who pays for this when the previous enemy is transported to his new home? The law abiding citizens.
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Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
This is a hysterical and completely out of touch with reality recollection of history. We're blaming liberals for the conflicts in the middle east? Seriously?
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flibbertyjibbert
Banned
flibbertyjibbert
Banned
Urgh, phoneposting fail. Was trying to quote the bit about how the best solution is to 'fix the problems' in the country of origin.
My question - why is this wests responsibility? Billions in aid each year don't work. If these countries can't get their act together, thats on them. We should stop taking their citizens and cut off the aid faucet
My question - why is this wests responsibility? Billions in aid each year don't work. If these countries can't get their act together, thats on them. We should stop taking their citizens and cut off the aid faucet
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TheWatcher
Banned
Yes, yes, Bush went into Iraq; however, it was under Obama and Clinton that Libya, Syria, and Ukraine were destabilized. Remember the quote, "We came, We saw, He died"? The destruction of Syria and Libya led to the creation of over 60 million migrants. In addition, the beloved Obama dropped more bombs via drones than any other president before him while espousing the ideals of multiculturalism. Some of us aren't fooled anymore, and some of us are beginning to find a voice against those that would subvert us with their socialist propaganda.
TheWatcher
Banned
And I find it ironic being called 'hysterical' when the left often compares Trump to Hitler.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
great point.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
News flash: leftists didn’t support Obama’s drone attacks.
TrainedRage
Banned
You're right, most 'leftists' had no idea he was even doing them. They still supported him though.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
The USA has a two party system. When your options are "bomb with drones" and "wage full on war", what do you expect?
Papa
Banned
Who is waging full on war?
TrainedRage
Banned
So you saying 'leftists never knew' was bullshit then? Because clearly people knew that 'war' and 'drone strikes' are the only two options, right? So they just didn't care because it was Obamy.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Uh, youre the one that said “leftists never knew“. Since it came from you, yeah I’m guessing it’s bullshit.
People pick the lesser of two evils when there aren’t any perfect candidates. News at 11.
Sakura Doritos
Member
That argument seems contradicting.
Bryank75
Banned
Just went to Dublin the other week and the city center has so few white people, so few Irish people... and it stinks and is completely congested.
My wife is Brazilian and was disgusted by the state of the city, a huge change since a few years ago. It’s the result of open immigration. No controls, rent out of control.... one of the most expensive cities in the world now.
My wife is Brazilian and was disgusted by the state of the city, a huge change since a few years ago. It’s the result of open immigration. No controls, rent out of control.... one of the most expensive cities in the world now.
TrainedRage
Banned
Ok you're right, they didn't know about the strikes but still supported the person who did them.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Yeah that post was poor. Not sure if its from 1018 or 2018. Is this a description of a third world country or a European one?
Speaking of Europe and years gone by, I find it ironic that there is such a resistance to immigration given its Imperialist history. The shoe is on the other foot now, and it fits.
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<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
“Rules for Thee and Not for Me,” and anyway, that was the past.
Papa
Banned
What are you even arguing for? Untrammelled Islamic migration into Europe? Eye for an eye?
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
Payback is a motherfucker.
Papa
Banned
And there goes any credibility you potentially had.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
Bro, I'm black AND gay on NEOGAF.COM in 2018. Any presumption of credibility I might have had on this board is laughable.